130% rise in average TV audiences for Aviva Premiership games

Great news for the league and the game in England.
 
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/28895.php#.UjsAxn_AHFo
 
Well done BT, just goes to show what can be achieved if you are willing to accept change.

Always good to see the game growing and more people getting interested. I hope with the Sky deal from next season the Pro12 sees similar improvements.

However, sorry for being negative and putting my scientist hat on, but are the figures quoted in comparison with the same fixture last year (could be a particularly attractive set of matches the last couple of weeks)? Or are they in comparison with the first couple of weeks of the season last year (could be perfectly normal to see higher than average attendances at the start of the season, when people have been starved of rugby for a couple of months, and before the winter weather kicks in)? Or are they just 130% up on the average for last season? Is there an increase for the TV audience per match or is it because they are showing more matches?

With a rise as high as that it's unlikely to be just these factors so there probably is more interest as well as more people having access to the required channel but 130% does seem an unfeasibly massive jump, it makes me suspicious! Maybe excessively so, but statistics without context annoy me! Hope I don't sound too much like a bitter Pro12 fan!

Also, it's impossible to find out but I'd be interested to know how many people watch via "unofficial" streaming sites and whether this number has dropped now that BT have made coverage more accessible

"Hope I don't sound too much like a bitter Pro12 fan!"

Bitter Pro 12 fan, that would be a 1st!  


I guess it includes people watching online, if Sky get the Rabo I think the numbers will drop to be honest, cheaper to go to the games for real

Or shows what happens if you offer sport on a channel more people get for free...

Still, good to have more people watching rugby.

Well there will be a mixture of Sky and other broadcasters so hopefully it won't be too bad, and again people like myself without Sky might find other ways of seeing it, either online or in pub!

Also Sky's advertising clout is far beyond that of BBC Alba etc so I would hope they might be able to attract a lot of new people

I wouldn't pay for it.

Don't forget that BT have been giving away access to BT Sport for a limited period to new and existing (not sure which, or even possibly both) broadband customers, so I'd imagine that their marketing dept would be fuming if they hadn't achieved a significant increase tbh

Pat_Mustard wrote:Always good to see the game growing and more people getting interested. I hope with the Sky deal from next season the Pro12 sees similar improvements.

However, sorry for being negative and putting my scientist hat on, but are the figures quoted in comparison with the same fixture last year (could be a particularly attractive set of matches the last couple of weeks)? Or are they in comparison with the first couple of weeks of the season last year (could be perfectly normal to see higher than average attendances at the start of the season, when people have been starved of rugby for a couple of months, and before the winter weather kicks in)? Or are they just 130% up on the average for last season? Is there an increase for the TV audience per match or is it because they are showing more matches?

With a rise as high as that it's unlikely to be just these factors so there probably is more interest as well as more people having access to the required channel but 130% does seem an unfeasibly massive jump, it makes me suspicious! Maybe excessively so, but statistics without context annoy me! Hope I don't sound too much like a bitter Pro12 fan!

What is also overlooks is pub audiences. I don't have Sky, and always go to the pub to watch Ulster in the HEC. I imagine that's true of many other rugby fans too cheap or principled to hand over cash to Murdoch.

Equally As, Virgin customers get BTS (just like last season) at no extra charge. Great service for those that have the fibre infrastructure imo. But BTS's Rugby Tonight is an overspun 2hr mix of rugby and vaudeville.

Pat_Mustard wrote:Always good to see the game growing and more people getting interested. I hope with the Sky deal from next season the Pro12 sees similar improvements.

However, sorry for being negative and putting my scientist hat on, but are the figures quoted in comparison with the same fixture last year (could be a particularly attractive set of matches the last couple of weeks)? Or are they in comparison with the first couple of weeks of the season last year (could be perfectly normal to see higher than average attendances at the start of the season, when people have been starved of rugby for a couple of months, and before the winter weather kicks in)? Or are they just 130% up on the average for last season? Is there an increase for the TV audience per match or is it because they are showing more matches?

With a rise as high as that it's unlikely to be just these factors so there probably is more interest as well as more people having access to the required channel but 130% does seem an unfeasibly massive jump, it makes me suspicious! Maybe excessively so, but statistics without context annoy me! Hope I don't sound too much like a bitter Pro12 fan!

It is comparing average viewers per match for the first two weeks this season, with average viewers for the first two weeks last season.

Now it could be that the matches this season were more attractive - or it could mean the pool of viewers is bigger.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Don't forget that BT have been giving away access to BT Sport for a limited period to new and existing (not sure which, or even possibly both) broadband customers, so I'd imagine that their marketing dept would be fuming if they hadn't achieved a significant increase tbh

No doubt, but I expect a large number are rugby fans who have been denied rugby at home, as Sky is expensive to watch one/two games a week.

More people watch something given away free that something they have to pay 60 quid a month for shocker!!!

Call the daily mail.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:More people watch something given away free that something they have to pay 60 quid a month for shocker!!!

Call the daily mail.

Quite. So long as Jeff gets paid (more) he won't mind at all.

It's not really free, thats the key.

Scrumpy wrote:It's not really free, thats the key.

Jeebus, you're an astute fella, Scrumpy - can't believe you've rumbled the BT sales strategy with such relative ease! So now they can concentrate on converting the part-time/temporary customers that have been lured in to full-time permanent ones, and feic the rest. Sound familiar?

does make me laugh reading some of the hatred from our celtic friends regarding BT.  

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:It's not really free, thats the key.

Jeebus, you're an astute fella, Scrumpy - can't believe you've rumbled the BT sales strategy with such relative ease! So now they can concentrate on converting the part-time/temporary customers that have been lured in to full-time permanent ones, and feic the rest. Sound familiar?

Blaggards the lot of them!
 
But hey ho at least the game in England is growing.

Hey. I don't hate BT at all. I am open to them "improving" our game if they do that.

Don't have any great love of sky either, AND I can see both sides of the coin in our current HC woes.

I just see the ERC as the devil we know, and the PRL as the devil guaranteed not to give a fock about us.

I am only commenting on this thread as I think it's funny that people are impressed with a free (currently to millions of people) service being more popular than a fairly expensive one.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Equally As, Virgin customers get BTS (just like last season) at no extra charge. Great service for those that have the fibre infrastructure imo. But BTS's Rugby Tonight is an overspun 2hr mix of rugby and vaudeville.

To be fair, you have to be a customer on one of the top contracts with Virgin to have BT sport included. These are the £60+ per month contracts which include Sky Sports as well... As one too hard up/tight to pay that much for TV, I have to say I was a bit disappointed (but not surprised) having read that Virgin customers would get BTS for free!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Don't forget that BT have been giving away access to BT Sport for a limited period to new and existing (not sure which, or even possibly both) broadband customers, so I'd imagine that their marketing dept would be fuming if they hadn't achieved a significant increase tbh

Didn't they broadcast that first Quins game for free- i.e across all platforms, no restrictions?

One question regarding the BT deal. Is this really part of the long term strategy for the Aviva and how can they ensure that the deal continues? The reason I ask is didn't something similar come along a while back in Setanta and all that was supposed to be the next big thing but within a couple of years they went up in smoke and football coverage returned to Sky.

I would imagine however that's a massive gamble for English Rugby, as assuming BT decide that their mega bucks don't warrant rugby endorsement in the future (which lets face it could happen if they chose to reinvest this in the darts or some other sport), what other avenue does English rugby happen if Sky has chosen to endorse the Pro 12 instead. Crazy thinking surely?

IF you signed up for the BBC Broadband package for free coverage here is a cautionary tale.
I was with BBC Broadband for many years,there line speed was slow,very slow,whenever I asked about the promised increase I was fobbed off .Your line can`t take it when I said why
did`nt they replace it more excuses.I asked for BBC infinity they said not in your area,then
one night about a year ago.BBC `s McAfee security took out the whole area I lived in on contacting them because I was using a Professional Router instead of the cheap BBC one
I was told they would fix it for £200.When I remonstrated with them about paying for services
they weren't supplying a big zilch.Reluctantly I left them for Virgin fibre optic costing roughly the same.For 3 weeks had no broadband connection tho still paying for it,I was charged a
Cancellation fee of over£100 TWICE but it was such a hassle couldn't reclaim it.
As I understand it before you can get this free service you have to have or buy a Sky HD box
so how is it Free?
Eventually you will be paying BBC,Sky,ESPN,ITV and god knows who to watch your Rugby
whatever happened to Sport on BBC FREE.?Frankly the service they provide stinks now
especially Sportswise.

BBC broadband?

IF you sign up for BT Broadband the BBC Sports channels are free or supposed to be just
warning people of my experience with THAT!!   

emack2 wrote:IF you signed up for the BBC Broadband package for free coverage here is a cautionary tale.
I was with BBC Broadband for many years,there line speed was slow,very  slow,whenever I asked about the promised increase I was fobbed off .Your line can`t take it when I said why
did`nt they replace it more excuses.I asked for BBC infinity they said not in your area,then
one night about a year ago.BBC `s McAfee security took out the whole area I lived in on contacting them because I was using a Professional Router instead of the cheap BBC one
I was told they would fix it for £200.When I remonstrated with them about paying for services
they weren't supplying a big zilch.Reluctantly I left them for Virgin fibre optic costing roughly the same.For 3 weeks had no broadband connection tho still paying for it,I was charged a
Cancellation fee of over£100 TWICE but it was such a hassle couldn't reclaim it.
As I understand it before you can get this free service you have to have or buy a Sky HD box
so how is it Free?
Eventually you will be paying BBC,Sky,ESPN,ITV and god knows who to watch your Rugby
whatever happened to Sport on BBC FREE.?Frankly the service they provide stinks now
especially Sportswise.

There are several arms to BT, there is BT wholesale that are in charge of the all the BT netowrk (backhaul etc), all BT based ISP's deal and use this network. Then there is BT retail, which sells us broadband.

If you live far away from the exchange then your going to get a slow speed regardless. Unless theres a high demand for quicker speeds and broadband take up in your area there going to upgrade elsewhere first.

I'm a little unsure on how an Anti Virus package is going to take out other peoples broadband, in fact im willing to say it's impossible. Also the home hubs tend to be pretty good for an ISP supplied one. not what i'd call a cheap one.

Possibly the reason for them charging you £200 is because you wouldn't plug the old router back in. they can't diagnose faults and talk you through the steps with a different router. 99% of the ISPs are like this due to the sheer amount of different routers out there with different UI's.

I presume you did the usual "make sure it's plugged into the master socker" etc.

You don't have to have a sky box at all, you can view on the website for free.

No offence, but it sounds like you have put no effect into understanding any of the situation. In fact are you drunk?

Previously the Aviva games were on two channels. People with Sky may not have had ESPN, etc. So all three games wouldn't be watched by everyone. Now I would think most who had ESPN for the rugby would have switched and get an extra game. I would imagine a sizeable chunk of Sky sports viewers interested in English rugby woud switch and be able to watch and extra games a week. Add in the free viewers.

Regardless of how it happens it's good for English rugby.

highland_scot wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Equally As, Virgin customers get BTS (just like last season) at no extra charge. Great service for those that have the fibre infrastructure imo. But BTS's Rugby Tonight is an overspun 2hr mix of rugby and vaudeville.

To be fair, you have to be a customer on one of the top contracts with Virgin to have BT sport included. These are the £60+ per month contracts which include Sky Sports as well... As one too hard up/tight to pay that much for TV, I have to say I was a bit disappointed (but not surprised) having read that Virgin customers would get BTS for free!

They don't include Sky Sports as well, that is extra. BT tripled their potential audience by giving Virgin customers free coverage.

will be interesting to see what attendance figures were like.

We've just managed to get BT broadband connected today - after 2 months and 3 appointments. The issue was that they need to find the master socket (a big boxy one with the front plate separated into upper and lower halves and an openreach logo) - but didn't tell us this in advance and also didn't tell us that they need two power sockets and the router has to go into the master socket - even if, as in our case -it eventually turns out to be in a cupboard. Anyway, it seems to be working, but much more hassle than it should have been.

As for whether BT are sustainable supporters of rugby, I think they probably are. They aren't a telephone company any more - they are in direct competition with Sky and Virgin as providers of the quad play - phone, broadband, tv and mobile - and to make that stick they need content. Sky got started (and defeated/absorbed BSB) by buying up soccer. BT have got a piece of that pie but have identified that they can "own" (tr: be the dominant broadcaster) for rugby.

So, they are big, this is strategically important to their core market, they have oodles of cash and their strategy depends on making rugby a big part of people's viewing habits.

Setanta, and ITV before them, weren't able to stick it ironically because they are content companies. Their investment in sport was what they had to make their money on and not a spearhead for a much bigger business. Counter-intuitive, but BT have a huge incentive to make rugby successful.

Poorfour wrote:We've just managed to get BT broadband connected today - after 2 months and 3 appointments. The issue was that they need to find the master socket (a big boxy one with the front plate separated into upper and lower halves and an openreach logo) - but didn't tell us this in advance and also didn't tell us that they need two power sockets and the router has to go into the master socket - even if, as in our case -it eventually turns out to be in a cupboard. Anyway, it seems to be working, but much more hassle than it should have been.

As for whether BT are sustainable supporters of rugby, I think they probably are. They aren't a telephone company any more - they are in direct competition with Sky and Virgin as providers of the quad play - phone, broadband, tv and mobile - and to make that stick they need content. Sky got started (and defeated/absorbed BSB) by buying up soccer. BT have got a piece of that pie but have identified that they can "own" (tr: be the dominant broadcaster) for rugby.

So, they are big, this is strategically important to their core market, they have oodles of cash and their strategy depends on making rugby a big part of people's viewing habits.

Setanta, and ITV before them, weren't able to stick it ironically because they are content companies. Their investment in sport was what they had to make their money on and not a spearhead for a much bigger business. Counter-intuitive, but BT have a huge incentive to make rugby successful.

Did you have fibre or adsl installed?

If it's adsl you can move it away from the master socket, but it might sync at a slower speed. Not 100% sure on fiber as i've never had it install/installed it. i presume it's the latter if they required you to have two power sockets.

The reasons why viewership is higher is fairly obvious it is cheaper or effectively free if you were going to pay for broadband anyway.

Having said that it is good for English clubs. More viewers mean pitchside advertising or sponsoring the league or clubs is more effective so the price can be higher.

A contract with Sky means a sport gets money but effectively reduces its profile. Just look at The Ashes which used to be a big thing but made little impact this year because most people cannot see it. In the long term this damages the sport. Wendyball is OK because there is Champions League on ITV, MotD etc.

Nathan since I NEVER drink I find that offensive,as to it being impossible tell it to the people in my area over a week in this area without service.No attempt was made by them to rectify the situation.I hired privately an engineer to try and get me re connected BOTH with the
Router I was using and the BBC ADSL/software supplied.
I am not a TOTAL IDIOT and know what I experienced very well,the router functioned,my
Pc functioned perfectly.They just wouldn't talk to each other.The Engineers conclusion was
that maybe my Ethernet connection had been damaged.A Usb connection was used for
Virgin BUT the dongle was accidently damaged an Ethernet cable works perfectly so
it wasn't that.It cost me considerably both in loss of service and financially and I am still
not happy with it.

emack2, you keep on about the BBC when IIRC the BBC have never provided broadband where as BT have & do

Sorry the BBC does indeed supply the service but it is free to BT subscribers,of which I was one before my debacle.

Welsh Magician wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Equally As, Virgin customers get BTS (just like last season) at no extra charge. Great service for those that have the fibre infrastructure imo. But BTS's Rugby Tonight is an overspun 2hr mix of rugby and vaudeville.

To be fair, you have to be a customer on one of the top contracts with Virgin to have BT sport included. These are the £60+ per month contracts which include Sky Sports as well... As one too hard up/tight to pay that much for TV, I have to say I was a bit disappointed (but not surprised) having read that Virgin customers would get BTS for free!

They don't include Sky Sports as well, that is extra. BT tripled their potential audience by giving Virgin customers free coverage.

As a Virgin customer I can confirm that you only get BTS free if you are already paying Virgin for their most expensive TV package. For most Virgin customers it is £15 extra.

hawalsh wrote:

Welsh Magician wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Equally As, Virgin customers get BTS (just like last season) at no extra charge. Great service for those that have the fibre infrastructure imo. But BTS's Rugby Tonight is an overspun 2hr mix of rugby and vaudeville.

To be fair, you have to be a customer on one of the top contracts with Virgin to have BT sport included. These are the £60+ per month contracts which include Sky Sports as well... As one too hard up/tight to pay that much for TV, I have to say I was a bit disappointed (but not surprised) having read that Virgin customers would get BTS for free!

They don't include Sky Sports as well, that is extra. BT tripled their potential audience by giving Virgin customers free coverage.

As a Virgin customer I can confirm that you only get BTS free if you are already paying Virgin for their most expensive TV package.  For most Virgin customers it is £15 extra.

If your paying for any of the top 3 packages then it is free. The three basic packages can have it as an add-on, yes. Are most people on the small packages? Either way, over half of the viewing figures that BT have had for their football and rugby have come from Virgin Media customers, BT really messed up leaving it that late to sign a deal with them.

To be honest I have watched a bit of the JEff and T14 this season, purely because it was free with the internet, and we have very limited internet options down in the sticks with us meaning BT is more or less the only decent option. Also the BT bloke told me that BT sports is free as long as you have are currently in a contract with BT, so to keep it for free means tying into a 12 month contract with BT at the start of the season (or when you contract runs out) every year, but the same thing applies for things like the replacement of a busted router etc.

That said I also know a number of people who have taken to watch the Jeff highlights show on ITV4 (It should be called the Jeff Highlights Show, may pull in more viewers wondering what it is). And it tends to be the third/fourth most talked about sporting topic at work (behind Rabo, and Wendyball, and on a par with the local age grade stuff).

Maybe you should tell those guys that anyone can watch all the full games (or just highlight) online on the premiership website. Only from a few hours after the game but if you're watching the highlights it's no different. Also get interviews etc. No score or time visible which is a pain.

emack2 wrote:Nathan since I NEVER drink I find that offensive,as to it being impossible tell it to the people in my area over a week in this area without service.No attempt was made by them to rectify the situation.I hired privately an engineer to try and get me re connected BOTH with the
Router I was using and the BBC ADSL/software supplied.
I am not a TOTAL IDIOT and know what I experienced very well,the router functioned,my
Pc functioned perfectly.They just wouldn't talk to each other.The Engineers conclusion was
that maybe my Ethernet connection had been damaged.A Usb connection was used for
Virgin BUT the dongle was accidently damaged an Ethernet cable works perfectly so
it wasn't that.It cost me considerably both in loss of service and financially and I am still
not happy with it.

Sorry about the drunk comment, didn't mean to offend.

I'll say it again (this coming from someone who works in this field), Anti Virus will not take down peoples broadband! If many people in your area were having issues it sounds like it was the exchange at fault (this is where everyones connections go to). If the exchange was down or had a fault your router wouldn't connect to it at all.

I'm still unsure why your mentioning the BBC, they have never sold a broadband service so what BBC ADSL software were you installing?

If you ever need any help with this stuff just give us a shout!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest I have watched a bit of the JEff and T14 this season, purely because it was free with the internet, and we have very limited internet options down in the sticks with us meaning BT is more or less the only decent option.  Also the BT bloke told me that BT sports is free as long as you have are currently in a contract with BT, so to keep it for free means tying into a 12 month contract with BT at the start of the season (or when you contract runs out) every year, but the same thing applies for things like the replacement of a busted router etc.

That said I also know a number of people who have taken to watch the Jeff highlights show on ITV4 (It should be called the Jeff Highlights Show, may pull in more viewers wondering what it is).  And it tends to be the third/fourth most talked about sporting topic at work (behind Rabo, and Wendyball, and on a par with the local age grade stuff).

any idea who hosts the ITV4 highlights show now that doyle bloke is on BT?

HammerofThunor wrote:Maybe you should tell those guys that anyone can watch all the full games (or just highlight) online on the premiership website. Only from a few hours after the game but if you're watching the highlights it's no different. Also get interviews etc. No score or time visible which is a pain.

Cheers, I'll let them know. But I think that most/some of them are the sort that only really know the regions results from watching ScrumV on Sundays  

nathan wrote:does make me laugh reading some of the hatred from our celtic friends regarding BT.  

It's not all hatred directed your way.  It's great to see the viewership figures are up.  But I'm surprised that rugby only pull 180,000 viewers?  I would have thought it would be a much higher percentage of the overall english or indeed UK population.

nathan - not a clue, I always assumed he would be doing both. Is Bayfield with BT now, because I remember him doing it before.

You may complain about BT broadband but I once had a techie from Talk Talk try to tell me that I had to switch off my (faulty TT) router as it can get 'tired' if it is switched on all the time....

lostinwales wrote:You may complain about BT broadband but I once had a techie from Talk Talk try to tell me that I had to switch off my (faulty TT) router as it can get 'tired' if it is switched on all the time....

I.T. Procedure-:
1 - Turn it off, then back on again
2 - Turn it off, wait five mins, turn it back on again
3 - Turn it off, wait half an hour, turn it back on again
4 - Turn it off and replace it.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

nathan wrote:does make me laugh reading some of the hatred from our celtic friends regarding BT.  

It's not all hatred directed your way.  It's great to see the viewership figures are up.  But I'm surprised that rugby only pull 180,000 viewers?  I would have thought it would be a much higher percentage of the overall english or indeed UK population.

But that’s it compared to Football rugby isn't really a major sport in England and we don't have a huge player pool to pick from.

Some of you are so misguided on the English.

Scrumpy wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

nathan wrote:does make me laugh reading some of the hatred from our celtic friends regarding BT.  

It's not all hatred directed your way.  It's great to see the viewership figures are up.  But I'm surprised that rugby only pull 180,000 viewers?  I would have thought it would be a much higher percentage of the overall english or indeed UK population.

But that’s it compared to Football rugby isn't really a major sport in England and we don't have a huge player pool to pick from.

Some of you are so misguided on the English.

Whereas you lads are all experts on us.......

We're not to different