Manny news

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Same as the Floyd thread any Manny news put on this thread to stop the board being cluttered.

When you list Manny's last 3 fights next to JMM, holy rudey poo! that is a poor list! Manny is supposed to be the P4P #1 FFS!
Thanks for the link Coxy.
Lets hope Manny can fight a live fighter soon....

D4, what do you expect Roach to say??
Roach: JMM will get steamrolled by Manny this time. We are too big and strong for his fat Mexican ass at 144lbs. ?? Another great fight Manny, well done.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

He is also the former LMW champ. If he wants to fight the MW champ with stips, those stips should not cripple the MW champ to render him effective. 150 is suicidal for Martinez. Pac should be prepared to juice up (weight training and protein that is) to 157 for the catchweight to me meaningful.

If he can make LWW, why make the JMM fight above that level.

The man is a fraud. A disgrace to the noble art and the sooner he is forced to take RANDOM tests the better for boxing. Even his voice has changed FFS.

Did Roy Jones duck Holyfield by moving down after Ruiz?

Do we really consider Jones to be a bonafide heavyweight champion much in the same way that Pacquiao isn't a bonafide light middleweight champion?

I dont believe RJJ asked Ruiz to come down to 210lbs or asked Holy for a fight at cruiserweight. How on earth can you ask the MW champ to lose 10 lbs in order to fight him? Plainly ridiculous.

Pacquiao is under no obligation to keep moving up through the weights. He has move up 10 weight division already.

He can't even make the welter limit so don't expect him to and challenge a middle weight who will outweigh him by 2 stone the night.

If Martinez wants it he can come down to 150lbs and take the Pacman on, if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to either.

Pacquiao now is fighting a guy his own size, a guy that has more rounds against him than any other fighter.

They have alredy had 2 great fights, lets look forward to a third.

azania wrote:I dont believe RJJ asked Ruiz to come down to 210lbs or asked Holy for a fight at cruiserweight. How on earth can you ask the MW champ to lose 10 lbs in order to fight him? Plainly ridiculous.

They never planned to fight Martinez. He moved up a division to get another title, but isn't even a Welter let alone a Middleweight. Martinez is too good and big.

Scott

Pretty sure he moved up as no-one would fight him @ 154.... Title was meaningless (proved by how the WBC stripped him straight away to interim level!)

I meant Pacquiao moved up to get another title, not Martinez.

Yes Roach never offered Martinez a deal, he just said that to a reporter who asked him a question about Martinez.

Martinez and Pacquiao are too far apart in weight.

Any fight between will significally disadvantage one in weight.

It will good to see Pacquiao back in with Marquez and see if the technical improvements in his game will allow him out out box Marquez this time round.

I'm with Scott on this, was a fight just to win another title and unlike Duran facing Palomino was done with the intention of getting a fight with the top dog although who that is at Light Middleweight now is anbodys guess.

The Mighty Atom wrote:I'm with Scott on this, was a fight just to win another title and unlike Duran facing Palomino was done with the intention of getting a fight with the top dog although who that is at Light Middleweight now is anbodys guess.

Cotto

D4thincarnation wrote:Pacquiao is under no obligation to keep moving up through the weights. He has move up 10 weight division already.

He can't even make the welter limit so don't expect him to and challenge a middle weight who will outweigh him by 2 stone the night.

If Martinez wants it he can come down to 150lbs and take the Pacman on, if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to either.

Pacquiao now is fighting a guy his own size, a guy that has more rounds against him than any other fighter.

They have alredy had 2 great fights, lets look forward to a third.

But you expect the MW champ to fry himself down in order to make a fight with Pac viable and legit? I think parkinsons has addled chicken-Roach's brain.

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:I dont believe RJJ asked Ruiz to come down to 210lbs or asked Holy for a fight at cruiserweight. How on earth can you ask the MW champ to lose 10 lbs in order to fight him? Plainly ridiculous.

They never planned to fight Martinez. He moved up a division to get another title, but isn't even a Welter let alone a Middleweight. Martinez is too good and big.

What was Roach saying then?

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Pacquiao is under no obligation to keep moving up through the weights. He has move up 10 weight division already.

He can't even make the welter limit so don't expect him to and challenge a middle weight who will outweigh him by 2 stone the night.

If Martinez wants it he can come down to 150lbs and take the Pacman on, if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to either.

Pacquiao now is fighting a guy his own size, a guy that has more rounds against him than any other fighter.

They have alredy had 2 great fights, lets look forward to a third.

But you expect the MW champ to fry himself down in order to make a fight with Pac viable and legit? I think parkinsons has addled chicken-Roach's brain.

If he wants it that is what he will have to do.

Do you expect Pacquiao to fight him at middle and give away over 2 stone?

The fact is this fight is unrealistic because their fighting weights are too far apart.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

Don't think Cotto has established himself as the best yet, needs to step up his quality of opposition and were he to beat Angulo, Dzinziruk, Powell or Cintron he'd be some way to doing it.

azania wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:I dont believe RJJ asked Ruiz to come down to 210lbs or asked Holy for a fight at cruiserweight. How on earth can you ask the MW champ to lose 10 lbs in order to fight him? Plainly ridiculous.

They never planned to fight Martinez. He moved up a division to get another title, but isn't even a Welter let alone a Middleweight. Martinez is too good and big.

What was Roach saying then?

He gets asked questions, replies sometimes jokingly, sometimes knowing what he says isn't realistic and it makes a story. It's just like the story a couple of weeks ago when Roach said everyone in the room knew he was joking but one journalist ran with it and it makes all the press (hopefully someone can remember). Roach says hypothetically he'd only face Martinez at 150 (or whatever it was) knowing Martinez wouldn't. Martinez says he can't get down there, story over.

D4thincarnation wrote:Yes Roach never offered Martinez a deal, he just said that to a reporter who asked him a question about Martinez.

Martinez and Pacquiao are too far apart in weight.

Any fight between will significally disadvantage one in weight.

It will good to see Pacquiao back in with Marquez and see if the technical improvements in his game will allow him out out box Marquez this time round.

Too far apart to have the deck stacked against whoever he is fighting. The Team make a mockery out of boxing. Until Pac fights a legit contender at their respective weight free from stipulations (except for proper drug tests) then imo he is a fraud.

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

But that isn't answering Sugar Boy's question, D4. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, also, because I believe that the point Sugar Boy is making is that Manny cannot effectively make lightwelter any more.

It will good to see Pacquiao back in with Marquez and see if the technical improvements in his game will allow him out out box Marquez this time round.

Apart from Marquez is on the slide. And before you say i'm just discrediting for the sake of it i picked Katsidis to win as i thought he had more left (didn't think either had huge amounts in their warrior legs tbh).

Marquez has had his hands full with lightweights, yes lightweights ffs!!!!! Casa = went life and death with, Diaz I = went life and death with (and the rematch Diaz found lots of success when he actually stood there and fought in the champ rounds) and Kats knocked him down and buzzed him around for the first quarter in their fight. And you think he's going to be competitive against a welterweight?!!??!?!

You can't answer this, but i'll ask: Why, if they're the same size, did Pacquiao not come down to 140? Why leave it @ 144? Pacquiao trains naturally and is 145, Marquez trains naturally and is 135... it's not rocket science.

At the end of the day Pacquiao is challenging a lightweight as a welterweight champ. If Marquez was so much more naturally suited to 140+ why hasn't he fought there more? As well as Pacquiao? If he was naturally 140 why has he campaigned weighing 144 or so?????!

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:I dont believe RJJ asked Ruiz to come down to 210lbs or asked Holy for a fight at cruiserweight. How on earth can you ask the MW champ to lose 10 lbs in order to fight him? Plainly ridiculous.

They never planned to fight Martinez. He moved up a division to get another title, but isn't even a Welter let alone a Middleweight. Martinez is too good and big.

What was Roach saying then?

He gets asked questions, replies sometimes jokingly, sometimes knowing what he says isn't realistic and it makes a story. It's just like the story a couple of weeks ago when Roach said everyone in the room knew he was joking but one journalist ran with it and it makes all the press (hopefully someone can remember). Roach says hypothetically he'd only face Martinez at 150 (or whatever it was) knowing Martinez wouldn't. Martinez says he can't get down there, story over.

Who knows when Roach is joking? Like when he was allegedly joking saying that SSM should come down to 142 as "we dont want to give him all the advantages". Sorry but I cannot trust anything that boxing people say and Team Roach in particular.

azania wrote:Who knows when Roach is joking? Like when he was allegedly joking saying that SSM should come down to 142 as "we dont want to give him all the advantages". Sorry but I cannot trust anything that boxing people say and Team Roach in particular.

I'm sure he will get over it.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

But that isn't answering Sugar Boy's question, D4. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, also, because I believe that the point Sugar Boy is making is that Manny cannot effectively make lightwelter any more.

The fact that he eats all his measl the night before has a full breakfast and fluids in the morning at still weighs in at 144lbs after a training camp of protein shakes and a 6000 calorie a day diet, make me think he can make light-welter if he wants to.

I'll remember your insistence of ring weights in the future D4, strange how you've changed your tune with regards to them recently

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:Who knows when Roach is joking? Like when he was allegedly joking saying that SSM should come down to 142 as "we dont want to give him all the advantages". Sorry but I cannot trust anything that boxing people say and Team Roach in particular.

I'm sure he will get over it.

Ha. No doubt.

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

No, you're very very very very wrong.

Hatton was quoted as saying this, aiming for his ideal ring weight of 152lbs (which he weighed in after 140) whilst fighting 7lbs higher @ 147:

"The key is to increase the protein and make the muscles more tone and to look fuller; that is the key really. I will work on getting my weight to 10 stone 7 but I've got to try and look as lean at that weight as I do at 10 stone, only his time I will have much more muscle."

Sound familiar to you? Protein? Muscle? Sounds pretty familiar to how Pacquiao has made himself look bigger and more muscley at the weight. Unless Hatton is so wrong of course. Manny has bulked up, that's why he fights @ 144, Marquez can't train whilst keeping extra weight on as it's unnatural for his natural SFW frame to do so - hence why he weighs 135 and simply puts on weight in water/food as opposed to Manny's muscle

Again, not rocket science

Nutritional expert Ricky Hatton says:

Next is his technical expertise: "Same move every time. Right hook, duck under. Same move every time."

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

But that isn't answering Sugar Boy's question, D4. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, also, because I believe that the point Sugar Boy is making is that Manny cannot effectively make lightwelter any more.

The fact that he eats all his measl the night before has a full breakfast and fluids in the morning at still weighs in at 144lbs after a training camp of protein shakes and a 6000 calorie a day diet, make me think he can make light-welter if he wants to.

Forgive me when I say that this isn't a convincing argument. You didn't even know that Pacquiao employs resistance training, so you certainly aren't going to be regarded as credible when you offer these snippets as though you would be a camp insider.

I believe that Manny v Marquez is a good fight, and if they've agreed to fight at 144lb. then that's fine by me. My problem isn't with Pacquiao, but rather it is with your contrived and inconsistent arguments.

Scottrf wrote:Nutritional expert Ricky Hatton says:

Next is his technical expertise: "Same move every time. Right hook, duck under. Same move every time."

Scott

I'd have him more of an expert than you to be honest. Losing 30lbs in each camp and coming in ripped must mean he knows a bit what he's on about.

And if that fails to convince you his old nutrionist Kerry (something i think?!) was a genius. Knew his stuff much like Ariza does (albeit more above board i reckon).

Simple fact is he was able to weigh 152 on fight night but be a bigger version of his natural 140 frame, and didn't "just stay hydrated" - he put muscle on. Same principle with Manny's frame and Marquez's frame.

A lightweight who has only ever fought above 135 once... against a guy with how many fights above that weight? Yup, they're the same size for sure.

coxy0001 wrote:

It will good to see Pacquiao back in with Marquez and see if the technical improvements in his game will allow him out out box Marquez this time round.

Apart from Marquez is on the slide. And before you say i'm just discrediting for the sake of it i picked Katsidis to win as i thought he had more left (didn't think either had huge amounts in their warrior legs tbh).

Marquez has had his hands full with lightweights, yes lightweights ffs!!!!! Casa = went life and death with, Diaz I = went life and death with (and the rematch Diaz found lots of success when he actually stood there and fought in the champ rounds) and Kats knocked him down and buzzed him around for the first quarter in their fight. And you think he's going to be competitive against a welterweight?!!??!?!

You can't answer this, but i'll ask: Why, if they're the same size, did Pacquiao not come down to 140? Why leave it @ 144? Pacquiao trains naturally and is 145, Marquez trains naturally and is 135... it's not rocket science.

At the end of the day Pacquiao is challenging a lightweight as a welterweight champ. If Marquez was so much more naturally suited to 140+ why hasn't he fought there more? As well as Pacquiao? If he was naturally 140 why has he campaigned weighing 144 or so?????!

I will answer Coxy because D4 won't.....JMM doesn't fight at the higher weights because he feels he isn't as effective.

Ortiz had been campaigning at 140 and Berto had how many fights at 147?

Yes Ortiz was bigger when they fought.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Martinez at 150lb would be a joke, quite right that he turned it down. If mannys a welter and Martinez is a middle any fight should be at the middle ground of 154. Manny has already 'won a title there' (pish) so what's the problem?

Martinez would beat manny anyway, I'm totally certain of that. I'd probably back him to beat mayweather as well.

Manny is a very small welter, he can still make light welter.

So how can he/you justify him making a lightweight (JMM) come up to 144lb if he's "a very small welter that can make light welter"?

They are the same size as can be seen by the there ring weight.

lets not go through this again.

But that isn't answering Sugar Boy's question, D4. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, also, because I believe that the point Sugar Boy is making is that Manny cannot effectively make lightwelter any more.

The fact that he eats all his measl the night before has a full breakfast and fluids in the morning at still weighs in at 144lbs after a training camp of protein shakes and a 6000 calorie a day diet, make me think he can make light-welter if he wants to.

Forgive me when I say that this isn't a convincing argument. You didn't even know that Pacquiao employs resistance training, so you certainly aren't going to be regarded as credible when you offer these snippets as though you would be a camp insider.

I believe that Manny v Marquez is a good fight, and if they've agreed to fight at 144lb. then that's fine by me. My problem isn't with Pacquiao, but rather it is with your contrived and inconsistent arguments.

Believe it, don't believe your choice. Anybody willing to know the facts can find out. And I don't consider what Pacquiao does is weight training.

Peacehavenboy wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

It will good to see Pacquiao back in with Marquez and see if the technical improvements in his game will allow him out out box Marquez this time round.

Apart from Marquez is on the slide. And before you say i'm just discrediting for the sake of it i picked Katsidis to win as i thought he had more left (didn't think either had huge amounts in their warrior legs tbh).

Marquez has had his hands full with lightweights, yes lightweights ffs!!!!! Casa = went life and death with, Diaz I = went life and death with (and the rematch Diaz found lots of success when he actually stood there and fought in the champ rounds) and Kats knocked him down and buzzed him around for the first quarter in their fight. And you think he's going to be competitive against a welterweight?!!??!?!

You can't answer this, but i'll ask: Why, if they're the same size, did Pacquiao not come down to 140? Why leave it @ 144? Pacquiao trains naturally and is 145, Marquez trains naturally and is 135... it's not rocket science.

At the end of the day Pacquiao is challenging a lightweight as a welterweight champ. If Marquez was so much more naturally suited to 140+ why hasn't he fought there more? As well as Pacquiao? If he was naturally 140 why has he campaigned weighing 144 or so?????!

I will answer Coxy because D4 won't.....JMM doesn't fight at the higher weights because he feels he isn't as effective.

Pacquiao moved up to welter because thats where the stars were, Cotto, Mosley, Margarito and ofcourse Mayweather.

Pacquiao wanted that fight so he moved up, he couldn't make the big money against the names at light-welter. Hatton was the only star in the divsion.

Marquez said after the Mayweather fight that he could fight at 140lbs and it would not be a problem for him.

Who know why Marquez makes some of the decisions he makes.

All this just makes Mayweathers record look even better really doesn't it

Goodness me D4. You sound more and more like Mark Regev with all your excuses that you and all of us know is silly and plain wrong.

Have you been taking propaganda lessons from the IDF or something?

Scottrf wrote:Ortiz had never fought above 140 and Berto had how many fights at 147?

Yes Ortiz was bigger when they fought.

Scott, Ortiz was apparently killing himself to make 140 - he's a young guy... is it any surprise to be honest having killed himself and dried himself out so bad to get to 140?

We're talking about a 38 year old guy here, it's pretty obvious he's hit his natural fighting weight and that's pushing it as most still think he's a natural SFW.. Evidence is how he's only ever managed to get himself up to the 135 limit once, and for those that think 2lbs etc is nothing - i suggest you go and watch someone like Froch train for 10 weeks and watch how completely and utterly minute the details are regarding weight.

When Floyd fought Oscar it was at Oscar's weight. No stips. How many stipulation fights (forget catchweight) has Manny had?

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Ortiz had never fought above 140 and Berto had how many fights at 147?

Yes Ortiz was bigger when they fought.

Scott, Ortiz was apparently killing himself to make 140 - he's a young guy... is it any surprise to be honest having killed himself and dried himself out so bad to get to 140?

We're talking about a 38 year old guy here, it's pretty obvious he's hit his natural fighting weight and that's pushing it as most still think he's a natural SFW.. Evidence is how he's only ever managed to get himself up to the 135 limit once, and for those that think 2lbs etc is nothing - i suggest you go and watch someone like Froch train for 10 weeks and watch how completely and utterly minute the details are regarding weight.

Pacquiao is barely any bigger and gets outweighed by any Welterweight. Froch is big at SMW and has talked about moving up (like Ortiz), it's not comparable.

But again, we wont agree.

Why doesn't Pac come down to 140 then? Does it weaken him or does the extra 4lbs give him an advantage over the smaller JMM?

A LW fighting a small WW should be at 140 to make it a fair equaliser.

But will Pac take random tests?

Depending on how many lbs Pacquiao is bigger on fight night that how much bigger Pacquiao is compared to Marquez.

I say no more than two lbs.

The actual size difference between Mayweather and Marquez can't be that huge though but we were told what a physical mismatch that one was, are we to assume that this fight isn't?

Mayweather weighed 150lbs in ring against De La Hoya which was his highest ever in ring weight so we're only talking pounds here, what's the difference?

Is this fwikuct still going?

Scott, i think it's best me and you avoid this subject with each other.

Hopefully someone like Hauser takes the time to write a very (long and boring) detailed article on the matter, because it's not quite so black and white.

Even if we ignore weight, he's fighting a guy who's gonna be 38 and has gone life and death with lightweights that the FW/SFW version of him would've boxed ears off with.

It's not an ideal fight for the fans, the trilogy should've happened a few years ago down at lightweight. Still don't see the issue with a fun gimme in Maidana, then see where Ortiz is then have a go at him? Not saying Ortiz would win (he'd get hammered) but at least he'd be fighting a live opponent for the first time in a while etc.

There will be a smaller difference in weight than the last time they fought, last time it was a 4lbs weight difference.

Marquez even outweighed Katsidis in the ring in their last fight.

You don't actually know that yet

The Mighty Atom wrote:You don't actually know that yet

He doesn't ACTUALLY know much of anything. All he does is prod and poke and present speculation and lies as if they were cold hard facts. Why he's on here still is beyond me. He's already had one thread locked today.

The Mighty Atom wrote:You don't actually know that yet

Given their past ring weights and the weight they will be fighting at, it a pretty good estimate that Marquez will be around 146lbs and Pacquiao will be around 146lbs.

But D4, if they're the same size why did Marquez have to bulk up to 142lbs and look dreadful in doing so?!?!

This is a really simple question:

Why didn't he weigh 135 then simply rehydrate to 145 as normal and be the same size as when he weighed 142 on the scales then go to 145 from there?

And you're so insistent on ring weights that we'll go on his average being 145.

I can't make it any simpler buddy. Saying that a special child has more hope of understanding.