Hugmeister Finchem flailing episode

Stacy Lewis doesn't escape either.  I agree with Huggan though.  Lewis's response to Feng's outrageous piece of luck at the final hole to wrest victory from her was graceless to say the least.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/john-huggan-europe-grass-looks-greener-for-young-americans-1-3139637

Some good stuff from Huggan, most of which he could have boldly predicted some time ago if he'd been keeping in touch with 606v2. Unfortunately, Huggan's commentaries in GolfWorld and other US publications are as bland as can possibly be.

As for Stacy Lewis, I reckon she gets an A+ for speaking her mind, an F- for failing to toe golfing's party line. She'd be making a far bigger statement if she avoided playing in China in the future, or at least until they got the air quality cleaner and crowd etiquette more respectful - she must have thought for one moment she was playing with Sergio in America. Poor thing.

gael,
Someone needs to take Russell Knox to the putting green and give the boy some instruction - he torpedoed some wonderful golf yesterday with twitches on the greens and that has been a trend thru'out his pro career.

Hi there kwini.  I'll probably get slated for saying this but when Huggan comes out firing all guns, that's when I enjoy reading him the most. Most golf articles bore me to death.  At least he spices things up.

I can quite understand Lewis's bitterness but I think she should have expressed her disappointment in a more diplomatic way.  She's supposed to be a professional when all said and done.  Her reaction was not a good advert for the game.  One could say, Lewis missed an opportunity to demonstrate what sets this game apart from others particularly when it was being played in a country still cutting its golfing teeth.  

I agree with you about air quality issues in China but it could be a long wait before a golf tournament ever went back there if they waited for that to be righted!  Indeed, whenever I've watched the golf from China, I don't think I've ever seen the sun shine.  

Re Russell Knox, his talents lie through the green rather than on it but, as that old golfing warhorse, Boanerges, used to say ... "good putters are born, not made".  I sure hope for Knox's sake, he's wrong!

I find it kind of ironic that the Euro press is critical of the Presidents Cup, when the EuroTour had their own cup match last week, named after the guy who practically put the EuroT on the map and few of the Euro Ryder Cup stalwarts bothers to play.

No Luke, No Westy, No Sergio, No Rory, No GMac.

Pssst Sergio, it is the SEVE CUP, named after your idol.

and few fans bother to show from what little I have seen.

The American Press doesn't seem to have the need to denigrate the Seve Cup, so I don't know why the Euro Press feel that they want to denigrate the Prez Cup.

For all the criticism I have heard about the Prez Cup, the American Players do show and play. Offhand, I cannot think of any US qualifier who has decided not to play the Prez Cup other than injury.

They went to Australia (twice) and South Africa once. Yes, I doubt if all of them wanted to go, and but thought that they were obligated to go.

And I think the Euro Stars should feel obligated to play in the Seve Cup as part of a Goodwill gesture to help the tour out.

gaelgowfer wrote:Stacy Lewis doesn't escape either.  I agree with Huggan though.  Lewis's response to Feng's outrageous piece of luck at the final hole to wrest victory from her was graceless to say the least.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/john-huggan-europe-grass-looks-greener-for-young-americans-1-3139637

Thanks for the link to that article... interesting read... For some of my other thoughts on it... go back to the prior thread... "The American's Are Coming"....

But back to Huggan and this piece... The following struck me...

As a consequence, we in Europe will be treated to at least one season – and in all likelihood more than two – watching the competitive maturation of America’s finest young golfers. As one of Uihlein’s management team said only recently: “Peter is having such a great time over here. He’s experiencing all kinds of different conditions and weather, all of which is making him a better golfer. And he’ll stay until he gets himself into the top 50. At which point, like everyone else, he will basically be free to play wherever he wants.”

That’s good – no, great – news for the European Tour. At last.

Sheesh... what has it come to that the only good news the Euro Tour has going for it is it's about to be invaded by a bunch of Americans. And yes I'm talking about full out assault. I might draw the ire of some here, but while I believe the quality at the TOP of the golf world is well distributed worldwide, IMO the DEPTH of QUALITY still rests clearly in America. Won't always be this way... but still is. So to Huggan or all those happy about this relatively new development I say "Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it". And the "it" is LESS spots in the future for the "rank and file" Europeans on it's own tour than ever before, while the highest quality of worlds players are still playing the meat of their schedule in America.

BUT... as has been well pointed out by Kwini and others in the past... this new web.com playoff system means that it just got that much harder for the dual tour Euro/PGAT guys to retain their privileges. IMO we WILL see more Euro's lose their PGA Status than we have before UNLESS those guys pick up even more events then they have in the past, and they WILL recognize that and adjust. Net result... even LESS play by top Euro's on the their home tours... and the Euro Tour being used as little more than a farm system to develop another crop of America's better young talent, and after a while a good portion of America's "marginal" talent settling in as journeyman Euro Tour players.

Bottom Line: I dunno Huggan... maybe not all that much to be happy about.

GPB,
Hasn't always been that way with the Ryder Cup tho'; there's a good reason why the number of RC appearances by the likes of Miller, Nicklaus and Weiskopf is lower than might be expected: clashed with hunting season.
 
But surely the main point of controversy about the Pres Cup from a non-American point of view is that America designs the rules and seldom accedes to requests for change.
And utterly ridiculous that Nick Price selected Els for the opening match last week but had to agree to other matches going out first.
 
As mentioned last week, Els and Price are very likely to issue a statement of changes they feel are necessary to even the playing field a little.
 
 
gael,
I like it when Huggan opens up with both barrels, wish he'd do more of it for American publications.

robo,
Don't necessarily agree with all you say vis-a-vis Americans in Europe etc.
Surely it's great if young Americans ply their trade around the world rather than just in Florida?
I'd agree that the PGA Tour has by far the greatest strength in depth, unmatchable in the foreseeable future, but a lot of that "depth" is comprised of non-Americans. Have said for some time that there's going to be a tipping point for Americans below the top class; just surprised it hasn't yet arrived, tho' our discussion about accessibility to these "fall" events suggest that at least eyebrows are being raised.

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Don't necessarily agree with all you say vis-a-vis Americans in Europe etc.
Surely it's great if young Americans ply their trade around the world rather than just in Florida?
I'd agree that the PGA Tour has by far the greatest strength in depth, unmatchable in the foreseeable future, but a lot of that "depth" is comprised of non-Americans. Have said for some time that there's going to be a tipping point for Americans below the top class; just surprised it hasn't yet arrived, tho' our discussion about accessibility to these "fall" events suggest that at least eyebrows are being raised.

Don't misunderstand my prior post.  It's NOT intended as some rah, rah USA, USA post.  What it is though is more of a recognition that the PGA Tour already is the the defacto "World Tour".   Oh it may not be if the definition is based on the venue's it plays, but it most certainly is if defined by the quality and "worldlyness" of the players it attracts.   But IMO it's not the Americans on the Tour that make it great... its the Americans PLUS the best of the best from the rest of the world that makes it great.

Jack Nicklaus wrote in his 2005 updated version of "Golf My Way":

COMPETITIVE DEPTH

When I started out, there were probably twenty or so guys who could win in any given week, of whom you'd really look at maybe five. Today there are probably a hundred or so possible winners of any PGA Tour event, with about twenty you'd favor. It's simply a matter of more players playing better.

The only limit on this escalation in the future that I can see will be access to the tour. Obviously, no matter how many guys are good enough to play on the big tour, the number who can do so is limited by the size of fields that can be accommodated.

IMO the PGA Tour will continue to attract most the best from around the world... and it's what Nicklaus says in that last line being the only limiting factor.  And IMO it's getting closer to that point... rapidly.  My point is that at some point... If the Euro Tour ends up as the development circuit for the Uihleins and Keopka's... when those guys find their way back to America WHO will they displace.   IMO those at risk are the "journeymen" full time PGAT players AND those Euro's who find they can't make it on the PGAT without playing a full schedule. Thus it's the "lesser" Euro's that get sent back to Europe. For the ET to ever regains it's strength, it needs not only a more favorable economy, but it MUST find a way to keep at least some of it's top tier players home.

Bottom line: Some short term gain for the ET... might in the end lend even further to its troubles in the long run.

Kwini, Nicklaus never missed a Ryder Cup that he was qualified to play. He wasn't allowed to play in 1963-1967 because of archaic PGA rules about learning how to fold sweaters and to hang up shirts.

He did not qualify for the team in 1979. He had a bad year and they didn't have Wildcards way back then.

Yes Weiskopf missed one for Hunting and I am not sure why Miller missed some. That is a little before my time. But I do know that the RC was not high profile here until the mid 80's.

I find it quite amusing that the only comment made to Huggan's article (about speaking ones mind, and about etiquette in China), has been blocked by moderators.

robo,
Fair do's there, but I'm hopeful that some ET players returning home from the PGA Tour, for whatever reason, will strengthen it, and give it more depth.
And there are guys who just haven't enjoyed the PGA Tour, astonishing tho' that may seem to some!!

pedro wrote:I find it quite amusing that the only comment made to Huggan's article (about speaking ones mind, and about etiquette in China), has been blocked by moderators.

I don't understand what happened here Pedro.  If anything is going to be blocked then surely it is incumbent upon moderators to explain why?

I strongly suspect most of those who haven't "enjoyed" the US PGA tour haven't done much on it. Winning (or even performing well) does wonders for an attitude!

Not many have done any better than they did as "tourists" though, Justin Rose eventually would be one, but can't say too many others have excelled after foresaking the European Tour.
Most had much greater success before they gave Europe the two-fingered salute.

Do you really see those committing to the PGA tour on a more full time basis as giving the Euro Tour a two fingered salute?

They only want more money, more OWGR points and an easier travelling schedule. Why not view it the other way around; that the euro tour has failed to meet the standards of the PGA tour and therefore given its players a two fingered salute?


It is like the current situation in F1, where the fans hate Red Bull and Vettel for winning, yet they let Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren of the hook for being totally diabolical. Any one of them performing as well as Red Bull would provide some more interesting racing.

Mac,
I just don't see them improving.
They're basically saying "we've made our dosh, now we're going to live on easy street, drive the Ferrari to McDonald's, all the highlights".
Load of b0ll0cks really, Justin Rose is the only one actually improving his golf, most of the rest are deteriorating (tho' I don't intend any criticism of those - Donald, Laird, Knox, Blixt, Pettersson - who went to college in the US and stayed).
Guys like McDo, Poults, Sergio, Westwood may have rounder bellies, deeper suntans and bigger mansions, but that's about it - the American dream.

PGA Tour: More money, easier travel, chance to compete against the best with overall crowds unmatched anywhere else.

ET and Web.Com Tour: If the above isn't for you (vast majority who don't play on the PGA tour, simply can't compete effectively), these tours provide some options.

It's not that complicated.

Now, if you can't improve playing against the best week in, week out that's a rare bird IMO. Monty cleaned up in Europe, had some great team event results, but with 100+ starts in the US never hoisted a stroke play trophy. Better career playing almost exclusively on the ET? Well, he sure made a lot of money!

I think if Monty's career was at his height now, he would easily be winning in America.
In his heyday there were hardly any ROW's playing regularly in the states.
Had he moved there now, like they are doing now. I think he would have won plenty.
Sergio and even Cyclops have proven you can win there a lot.

Suspect you are right Super. But he didn't and IMO didn't serve him well as he tried to sharpen his game and win that coveted major he never bagged.

Cyclops? Assume you mean that 3-time major winner Paddy Harrington. A true world beater in his day -- Monty not in that class!

It wasn't really a widely spread culture to do that back then though Shotrock, recent as it was.
I actually think Monty was better than Cyclops even with his three majors.

I think Sr is like the rest of America, wearing green, white and orange undies when the stars and stripes are in the wash . . . . . .

a closet spud muncher?

I think Kwin's like the rest of the UK'ers in America ... deeply frustrated that our Soccer team is ranked higher! Don't worry, you'll beat Poland!

Do you mean Ireland or USAUSAUSA Shot?

I wouldn't put money on us beating Poland though. An evening shouting at the telly to follow...

Roller ... good luck, but I can't imagine the inventors of the game will lose. Or could they?

Super .. always enjoy visiting Ireland!

Not even confident of that Sr.
For my sins, or for my age, I was at Wembley exactly (give or take two days) forty years ago when Poland drew 1-1 with England so denying qualification for the 1974 WC Finals.
Hope an apparently inferior crew this time can succeed against today's version of the Gorgons and Tomaszewskis (Polish team looks like the NY Mills phone book, except no Fergols or Krolls) where Mick Channon and the rest fell short despite outshooting the Poles 35-2.

Bound to be China who really invented it anyway...

kwinigolfer wrote:Not even confident of that Sr.
For my sins, or for my age, I was at Wembley exactly (give or take two days) forty years ago when Poland drew 1-1 with England so denying qualification for the 1974 WC Finals.
Hope an apparently inferior crew this time can succeed against tdays version of the Gorgons and Tomaszewskis (Polish team looks like the NY Mills phone book, except no Fergols or Krolls) where Mick Channon and the rest fell short despite outshooting the Poles 35-2.

England in a major finals is like Chemmy Alcott in a World Cup skiing race. Totally pointless and just making up the numbers.

super_realist wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Not even confident of that Sr.
For my sins, or for my age, I was at Wembley exactly (give or take two days) forty years ago when Poland drew 1-1 with England so denying qualification for the 1974 WC Finals.
Hope an apparently inferior crew this time can succeed against tdays version of the Gorgons and Tomaszewskis (Polish team looks like the NY Mills phone book, except no Fergols or Krolls) where Mick Channon and the rest fell short despite outshooting the Poles 35-2.

England in a major finals is like Chemmy Alcott in a World Cup skiing race. Totally pointless and just making up the numbers.

Like you in a medal?