Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread

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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Oct 2013, 9:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

It was always going to be hard for Hughton.

The Norwich family never really took to him as one of their own
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Post by J.Benson II on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:53 pm

Good win for Chelsea yesterday. Quite fortunate but a very big win regardless.
Very poor keeping from Hart who has gone from being one of the most reliable keepers in the league to one of the least. Again, his decision making was poor. He's done this before - come rushing out of his goal when there is absolutely no need to (think back to the England - Sweden friendly).
I can see the giant Pantilimon starting their next game. He looked good in their cup ties last season.
City without Kompany look very vulnerable. They have brought an unnecessary amount of forwards and have totally ignored any defensive back up. Getting rid of Mancini was an error. They looked a lot harder to beat under the Italian.

As for Chelsea, Torres was great yesterday and rolled back the years. As did Terry. Andre Schurrle is starting to resemble the top player he is. However, Lampard looks like a passenger now and shouldn't really be starting these big games anymore.

Chelsea to win the league.

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm

Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!

I still think he's useless.

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Post by J.Benson II on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:08 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!

I still think he's useless.
I thought he always looked threatening. If Chelsea were ever going to get something from the game, you just felt that it would come from him.
However, I think he needs a run of at least several good back to back performances before anyone can get excited with him.

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Post by Stella on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:10 pm

He looked a lot more confident, running at the their er defense, for what their was. Made me laugh when a pundit, who's name escapes me said he use his strength for Chelsea's first goal. Strength? The defender almost waived him through.
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Post by Fernando on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:11 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Am I the only one who thought Torres was his usual self, bar a bit of pace? He scored a goal that he wouldn't have if not for Hart, he missed an open goal, and the City defence was turgid for his assist on Schurrle's goal - the guy didn't even try to block the cross!

I still think he's useless.
Isn't that all Fernando has ever been his link up play is better then at Liverpool with Gerrard behind him gave him room to run in beyond can't do that with Chelsea everyone sits back against them . I think Chelsea & Arsenal could actually use switching forwards Chelsea need a link up forward like Giroud & Arsenal need someone to get in behind the defense like Torres.

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:13 pm

Torres at Arsenal? Giroud has become the tap-in master, Torres couldn't tap Mila Kunis if she was tied to a bed and blindfolded Laugh

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Post by J.Benson II on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:23 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Torres couldn't tap Mila Kunis if she was tied to a bed and blindfolded Laugh
Neither could I. Laugh 

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01637/SNN1425E---_1637400a.jpg

http://c10.ilbe.com/files/attach/new/20130921/377678/28002910/2031888342/f916f9d09553053e164132dc9992d557.jpg

censored 

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:11 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Giroud has become the tap-in master
and is now rated as the best striker in London & is a classy, technically gifted finisher of the highest calibre.

Not sure how much you will agree, probably not at all, but I am willing to bet that Giroud fails to score in any of the Liverpool (h), Dortmund (a) & Man Utd (a) games.

thumbsup 

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:15 pm

If the bet was either no goals in those three games, or one goal, and you put a gun to my head, I'd say no goals.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:13 pm

Rather be a tap in master like giroud than the "technical powerhouse" carroll who cant score for toffee.

Realy dont understand why people are critising giroud for scoring but then prasing carroll

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Post by GSC on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:36 pm

Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:58 pm

GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Phew I thought it was just me who hadnt seen this version of carroll everybody else is talking about

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:59 pm

Oh for goodness sake! Come on, I was even being reasonable with it!

Now I'm happy Leicester continue to flounder!

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:29 pm

GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
haha

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:32 pm

GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Don't stoop to incredibly daft hyperbole, you're better than that.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
GSC wrote:Because whenever our backs are turned, Carroll turns into a cross between Drogba and Messi apparently
Don't stoop to incredibly daft hyperbole, you're better than that.
Perhaps tell that to the people saying that they would choose Carroll over all the other strikers in the epl (or nearly all the other strikers)

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 7:52 pm

I think Wilko has been quite in his assessment of Carroll, he doesn't rate him higher than say Van Persie, Suarez or anybody else but he fits in perfectly with the way West Ham play. He's a round peg fitting into a round hole, would I want him at Man United no I wouldn't but that's less to do with his ability than his style of play.

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Post by Liam on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 8:17 pm

He's a handful when whoever he plays for, hit diagonal or long balls into him. Bit like what Fellaini did at Everton. Chips in with maybe 10-12 goals a season and thats about it. An alright striker but for me will never get to a top side.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:04 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think Wilko has been quite in his assessment of Carroll, he doesn't rate him higher than say Van Persie, Suarez or anybody else but he fits in perfectly with the way West Ham play. He's a round peg fitting into a round hole, would I want him at Man United no I wouldn't but that's less to do with his ability than his style of play.
Id have wellbeck and hernadez over carroll let alone him getting anywhere near rooney and rvp. And thats on ability not style, a decent header of the ball would do well in a united team with all of our crosses

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:09 pm

what? Welbeck instead of Carroll. I'd rather have a physically strong, dominant in the air striker who can bang 10+ goals a season & bring others in around him, than Welbeck who basically runs, runs, runs, loses it or when is presented with a chance or open goal he fluffs it. How many goals last season 1? How many this season six, seven maybe in the league he's going to get. There also complete different strikers all these players your comparing, different sides require different strikers n attributes.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:50 pm

Wellbeck is by no means a finished product and has alot to learn but yes I would have him over carroll who's more than likely to miss 2/3 of a season and the rest getting fit.

Also Wellbeck hasnt been given a run in a team for a solid amount of games and certainty not in his strongest postion. Never been a left winger and when he's played upfront I reckon he's got alot better scoring rate than carroll. One game up front this season and he scored two and his record for england is also alot better averaging a goal nearly one in two to carrolls one in 4

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Post by CFCNick on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:55 pm

I think at Euro 2012 Carroll proved when he's on form Welbeck shouldn't even be in the same stadium.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:57 pm

Without Welbecks improvised flick finish we probably wouldn't have got to the quarter finals.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:20 pm

The fitness argument is fair, I can hold my hands up to that. I do hope its just a matter of issues backing up. Its not like he plays 3 matches, gets a little strain for a week then another 3 and repeat, its reasonably big injuries. The hope being that he gets over bad luck rather than is just injury prone.

Its all very relative. I think Carroll is fully capable of 15 goals a season. I think Benteke would be looking at closer to 20. I think theres thing each is better at than the other. Similar with a lot of strikers. I actually prefer Lukaku to both, some would prefer Benteke to Lukaku, so its hard to have any answer really.

I also rate Welbeck. Carroll would be one of my four strikers for England this summer, as would Welbeck. Fergie was right with his pick of Welbeck over Rooney against Real Madrid last year, Welbeck off the ball is so key to a team performance.

Its kind of similar to a discussion on Giroud. I really dont think he'd look all that at Man United or City, but I think he is absolutely perfect for Arsenal. The reason he isnt top top level is because someone like Rooney, Suarez, Aguero or RVP could play in any side in the world.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:26 pm

John wrote:what? Welbeck instead of Carroll. I'd rather have a physically strong, dominant in the air striker who can bang 10+ goals a season & bring others in around him, than Welbeck who basically runs, runs, runs, loses it or when is presented with a chance or open goal he fluffs it. How many goals last season 1? How many this season six, seven maybe in the league he's going to get. There also complete different strikers all these players your comparing, different sides require different strikers n attributes.
The last time andy carroll got 10+ league goals was back in 2010 when he got 13. Since then he has scored 4 goals in in 11/12 and 7 goals in 12/13 and 0 goals this season due to injury.

The guy just does not score goals

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Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:31 pm

I'm saying if he's injury free he can bang double figures. Basically in a team set out to play to his attributes n style, he bangs double figures like Newcastle. He moved to Liverpool, got injured & then was playing in a side which did not suit his style of play, hence the less goals. He was then injured for the 12/13 season, so obviously no goals. You got to look at more than just stats, more like the environment he was in.

He does score goals, when fit, which he will be at a certain point in time.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:33 pm

Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:44 pm

Rather have Carroll than Welbeck in the England team.

I rather rate Carroll as a better finisher, better in the air, and has a better first touch. #oneandycarroll

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Post by CFCNick on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:27 pm

compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:30 pm

CFCNick wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.
8 goals in twenty caps often playing a role for the team rather than his best postion would suggest otherwise. Remind me again what the brillant all round carroll scoring record is?

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 7:50 am

welbeck is a good footballer but for me only the 5 best england striker, but as he shored up that wing the last england game he would be a wc squad player

If everyone is fit and on half decent form, my order

rooney
walcott
sturridge
carroll
welbeck
murray Smile
lambert
Gayle Smile


considering we are at a low point for english strikers- that isn't to bad..

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Post by GSC on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 8:13 am

Rooney is world class.

Sturridge may develop into something near that level (don't think he ever will be)

Walcotts a threat on his day.

Beyond that I'm not impressed tbh
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 8:15 am

Potential wise there is also gansta Morrison

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 8:41 am

I just rewatched united v stoke highlights. I cannot believe how bad Nani, cleverley and kawaga were! Stoke totally bossed them in the middle. Game saved by Ronney and RVP again!

Moyes needs to have another look at Zaha... and quick

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Post by westisbest on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 8:41 am

I'd love to see Agbonlahor & Delph make it to the world cup.

Both playing well, but cant see it, even if they have great seasons.

Gabby doesn't score enough goals, but his pace is frightening.




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Post by Stella on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:06 am

We have pace with Walcott and Wellbeck. I reckon Carroll, Lambert and/or Defoe should be battling it out for the other strikers spot.
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:13 am

you mean beyond sturridge and rooney!

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Post by Stella on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:14 am

mystiroakey wrote:you mean beyond sturridge and rooney!
Yeah. No Young either. Never rated him that highly but he has gone off the boil, when he's been fit.
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:17 am

young is not in running either for me at the moment. I would have 10 players above him as wing/strikers/forward players

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Post by Guest on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:21 am

Welbeck scores tap ins for England. He can't score at all for United. Carroll is never fit but when he is, he's unplayable and if he played a full 38 game season for West Ham, I could see him putting away anywhere between 12-20 goals. Easily.

Ashley Young was great for England about 2.5 years ago, but his form has nosedived so spectacularly that I'd be tempted to announce publicly that he's never playing for my England team again. He's become a shadow of the player he once was.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:59 am

compelling and rich wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:Im very confident that in ten years time looking back on both wellbecks and carrolls career, wellbeck will be remembered as the better player
Welbeck only gets in the England team because of the club he's at. If he was anywhere else he'd get slagged to high heaven.
8 goals in twenty caps often playing a role for the team rather than his best postion would suggest otherwise. Remind me again what the brillant all round carroll scoring record is?
In terms of meaningful goals, they've only scored one each - both against Sweden.

Welbeck's other goals have come in friendlies, or against footballing minnows.

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Post by J.Benson II on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 10:15 am

Both are average.
Carroll is just useful for mid/lower tier PL teams due to their long ball tactics.
Not good enough for a team with CL aspirations.
Neither is Wellbeck, but he's only at United because he came through the academy. His Ronaldinho impersonations are always amusing though.

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Post by MIG on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am

Thing is, Welbeck and Carroll do a lot more than just score goals but some people only look at goal stats and say someone is rubbish, end of story.  Niether are world beaters but I would say they are hardly average either.

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Post by Guest on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 10:48 am

Welbeck has the potential to be a star. But he needs to become consistent - as Daniel Sturridge has done - and put more effort in.

Carroll needs to get fit, and take his career seriously. No more looking like Jimmy Five Bellies - get trim, take your career seriously, score goals, get in the England side, move back to a big club, become a huge name. He too has the potential, but I think Welbeck will have by far the better career.

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Post by J.Benson II on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:07 am

Sturridge has far more ability than Wellbeck though, and always has.
People will always say stuff like "if Wellbeck starts scoring more goals, he'll be great", but that same principle will apply to almost any player.
It reminds me of the old Heskey debates of the past - "he doesn't score but adds a lot to the team". Whether that's true or not, he's a forward at the end of the day so will always be judged by goals, and therefore should naturally have some kind of composure and finishing ability - hence why someone like Hernandez will always be very useful addition to any team.
Carroll had one decent season in the PL. Has he done anything to merit being considered any better than someone like Holt or Lambert for instance?
Same with Wellbeck. apart from being a youth product from a top team, is he really any better than someone like Agbonlahor?

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Post by MIG on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:09 am

But would you say Holt, Lambert and Agbonlahor are average too?  Cause I wouldn't.
I would say someone like Anichebe or Borini is average.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:09 am

Oh don't bring up the travesty that was Holty not making the Euros Benson Sad
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Post by Guest on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:16 am

MIG wrote:But would you say Holt, Lambert and Agbonlahor are average too?  Cause I wouldn't.
I would say someone like Anichebe or Borini is average.
How dare you insult the average footballer furious 

Anichebe is worthless. He's less than average, he's an abomination.

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Post by J.Benson II on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:24 am

Average in the sense that they are fairly pedestrian players in the PL that are best suited for average, mid-tier clubs.

Olly, I personally also think Holt deserved a place in the 2012 squad.

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Post by MIG on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:49 am

I don't really agree with your use of the term average.  Mid tier Premier League clubs are not average.  Unless you only watch Premier League football of course and never take any notice of any of the lower leagues.

MIG
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