JD2 to Clermont next season

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10442435/Jonathan-Davies-to-join-Clermont-Auvergne-from-Llanelli-Scarlets-as-exodus-of-Wales-players-to-France-continues.html

Assume he would replace Regan King (another ex scarlet ironically). Fofana-JD2 doesnt look too shabby. Shame they dont have a fly-half to get them playing

Good luck to him. A rugby career can end at any time, so why not make as much as you can while you still can, and at a club where you might actually win some trophies?

Will be interesting to know if he negotiated for full international release.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good luck to him. A rugby career can end at any time, so why not make as much as you can while you still can, and at a club where you might actually win some trophies?

That's the theory. And they've certainly bought the ingredients this last number of years. We're all still waiting though.

Good luck to the bloke, I will look forward to seeing him and Fofana in the centres. Now, just a replacement for James at 10 and the club might achieve what it should!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good luck to him. A rugby career can end at any time, so why not make as much as you can while you still can, and at a club where you might actually win some trophies?

Yep. Same as halfp and Warb. They can get paid a fortune to stay in Cardiff but will they win anything? Domestically, doubt it. HC, no chance. Adam jones may be off too but he's had 10 great yrs at the Os with 4 league winners medals.

Another one bites the dust....

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Welsh rugby fans as they won't be able to see these guys week in week out in the flesh.

Disapointing i really thought he was the most loyal of the bunch, guess not.

Massive blow for Wales. How many is that playing in France now?

Remember when Scarlets were rightly so described as one of the best backline in the NH 2 years ago, who's left now? It's only a matter of time before Priestland leaves.

I'm disappointed because i thought that the Scarlet’s had the core of a team that in a few more years would be one of the best in Europe. A scary amount of young talent in their region. I guess this just makes room for another to come through.

Not sure what to say really. Really sad for Welsh domestic rugby that it is struggling to hold onto young stars.

Seems harsh to castigate the players for disloyalty though. Didn't Scarlets actively seek to move North out? Cannot blame JD2 for going.

I thought though that new contracts with a new club cannot be discussed until January? does this again suggest that Scarlets were happy for him to move on?

The player movement is becoming inevitable.
The WRU made the national team the priority and clubs and now regions have suffered accordingly as fans have voted with their feet on a domestic product they don't consider worth supporting.

You can't blame the player.

profitius wrote:Massive blow for Wales.

Don't see it myself. He'll be playing in a tougher league and he'll still be available for Test matches within the international window.

With Gatland claiming publicly that the Rabo isn't intense enough, its hardly surprising if the Welsh players head elsewhere.

Disagreed that you can't blame players, Adam Jones of all people never moved abroad.

VinceWLB wrote:Disagreed that you can't blame players, Adam Jones of all people never moved abroad.

Yet. It took him a long time to overcome fitness issues and become th eworld class operator he now is. Certainly when his current, soon to end, contract was negotiated he was only just completing that journey. Now only Adam and his agent know if he was made offers of major league money.

I just find it hard to accuse players of disloyalty, when so often their employers offer very little loyalty in return. Anmd remember we are talking about someones career here. If any of us were offered a job with much more money, excellent prospects for development in world class surroundings - well we would be silly not to seriously consider it.

Another one bites the dust. Obviously I would have prefered JD2 to stay and play in Wales, but I guess this was inevitable. It's not so bad for the Scarlets, they have good backs coming out of their ears. Welsh teams are already struggling with forwards, when more of them start moving abroad we can worry.

Sin é wrote:With Gatland claiming publicly that the Rabo isn't intense enough, its hardly surprising if the Welsh players head elsewhere.

He claimed that the Regions weren't playing at a high enough intensity, which is true if you consider their form. They need to be playing as intense and consistent as Leinster or Ulster.

Rumour on the blues forum that bradley is off to france on gats advice. Massive implications if that is true, not just the regions but the relationship between them/WRU/Gatland.

So we're all agreed then, the Rabo is not a good league.

VinceWLB wrote:Remember when Scarlets were rightly so described as one of the best backline in the NH 2 years ago, who's left now? It's only a matter of time before Priestland leaves.

who would want priestland?

Scrumpy wrote:So we're all agreed then, the Rabo is not a good league.

Lets ask all the Englishmen playing in France what they think  

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:With Gatland claiming publicly that the Rabo isn't intense enough, its hardly surprising if the Welsh players head elsewhere.

He claimed that the Regions weren't playing at a high enough intensity, which is true if you consider their form. They need to be playing as intense and consistent as Leinster or Ulster.

He compared the Rabo to Super Rugby.

In fairness to the Ospreys, they compete well in the Rabo.

The Top 14 is destroying club rugby.

quinsforever wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Remember when Scarlets were rightly so described as one of the best backline in the NH 2 years ago, who's left now? It's only a matter of time before Priestland leaves.

who would want priestland?

Saints could do with a 10 to rotate with Myler.

Gloucester could do with back up for Burns.

Exeter could get back up for Steenson.

Wasps - a 2nd 10 to compete with Andy Goode.

Sale - to compete with Cipriani.

Newcastle would probably look at him as a starter.

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:With Gatland claiming publicly that the Rabo isn't intense enough, its hardly surprising if the Welsh players head elsewhere.

He claimed that the Regions weren't playing at a high enough intensity, which is true if you consider their form. They need to be playing as intense and consistent as Leinster or Ulster.

He compared the Rabo to Super Rugby.

In fairness to the Ospreys, they compete well in the Rabo.

Ill comparison too. Super 15 teams are pretty much like mini international teams, the set-up emsures it. The only thing close to this model from the NH is Ireland's Provincial teams, just with less strength in depth.

Is this just a way of insuring Wales have representation in any new European Rugby competition?

I think Sextons move to France is actually discouraging the other Irish players of such a move.

He's played so many games, reportedly lost a lot of weight, is fatigued, and Ireland are resting him instead of playing him, putting extra pressure on him to retain his shirt.

There's more than money at stake, if BoD went to France at JD2's age, you be fairly sure he'd be retired by now.

While the the Celtic nations cannot compete with the money offered in France we do have other areas of a career we can offer. Rest periods to give the best chance of a prolonged career, proper recovery from injuries (not rushed back), a surrounding that offers the best chance for National selection and increases the chances of National success and a surrounding that should be close to friends and family (very important when players start having their own families).

Even non-Irish players like Pienaar have elected to stay, while the money is good, they could be earning more in France.

I never like to see Welsh players going to France, while others may look on the bright side that it opens a spot for a younger player to come through, the younger player will take time to develop, and there will come a point where the younger player will never be as good as the player he is replacing, if this happens in a number of positions then the team will be weaker overall, making the league weaker overall.

To put the wages in perspective the tax rate in France is said to be 75% which i wish would have discouraged players to move abroad but i guess not.

I don't understand why the WRU and regions don't do more to keep players in Wales.

E.g. if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales.

More financial incentives for staying in Wales.

VinceWLB wrote:To put the wages in perspective the tax rate in France is said to be 75% which i wish would have discouraged players to move abroad but i guess not.

Vince:

the 75-percent tax rate is for the portion of employees' salaries above the million-euro ceiling

- don't think many, if any, rugby players will be caught by this, unless endorsements take them over the hurdle?

beshocked wrote:I don't understand why the WRU and regions don't do more to keep players in Wales.

E.g. if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales.

More financial incentives for staying in Wales.

Probably too late for this now.

The WRU had the cash to put something together in terms of financial incentives but they chose to give it to the bank instead (presumably 'strategising' that once the debt is paid off they'll be able to restructure Welsh rugby again. It'll be too late by then, of course, as all our first team will be in France).

We just don't have enough test quality players to have the luxury of a Welsh-based only policy.

The WRU have to find a way of 'embracing' the exodus and thus enjoy a sort of best of both worlds - players like Roberts, Lydiate, JD2 etc take their game (hopefully) to even higher levels and we have space in the 'regional' squads for more youngsters.

How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

Casartelli I suppose it's nice to be positive but would you say any Welsh player has benefitted from playing in France so far? I wouldn't.

Funnily enough guys in France are slowly moving from 1st choice to down the pecking order.

E.g. Hook and Byrne wouldn't be in a first choice XV anymore. Phillips looks to be on his way down too despite the lack of challenge for his spot.

Similar situation in England:

North since his move to England hasn't really set the world alight. Peel has basically fallen off the radar. Henson has done very little since leaving the Ospreys etc. Andy Powell is no longer in the picture, you wouldn't know Craig Mitchell is still at Exeter and so on.

For whatever reason in my opinion the vast majority of Welsh players don't do particularly well outside Wales.

But they're getting paid, Beshocked, so they're happy!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

Top French clubs, generally, being of a higher standard than Welsh regions. And their league being 'tougher' physically.

Not sure how the Sexton situation applies to this - Leinster's HC performances would have already given him a lot of top level 'club' experience so a move to France for him, in performance terms, would have been more of a sideways move? Just for the money rather than 'professional development'? Very different situation to the top Welsh players now moving to France.

Griff they get paid yes but it doesn't help Welsh rugby.

Casartelli yes the French league is tougher physically but because the emphasis is more on club rugby it means the players aren't as in good shape for internationals.

Less wrapping in cotton wool as the emphasis is not on international matches.

The Irish international players in particular are used to getting lots of rest time during the Pro12 in preparation for their bread and butter - the HC and international matches.

Sexton is getting a harsh wake up call in my opinion.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

what are you basing that on? how many tier1 international matches has he played since joining top14?

he is playing day in day out against far stronger oppostion than he got in the rabo, or when he was being rested for ireland, so once his endurance picks up, he is going to be a stronger player.

he has played 10 games for racing so far this season. how many would he have played by the same time for leinster - 5?

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

what are you basing that on? how many tier1 international matches has he played since joining top14?

he is playing day in day out against far stronger oppostion than he got in the rabo, or when he was being rested for ireland, so once his endurance picks up, he is going to be a stronger player.

he has played 10 games for racing so far this season. how many would he have played by the same time for leinster - 5?

I'm basing it on interviews from Sexton who has already stated he wants to come back to Leinster after his stint with Racing. He is complaining about fatigue which is why he couldn't play against Samoa, so Racing has already robbed him of an Ireland cap.

I've seen him play a couple of times for Racing this season and he doesn't look the same player.

having a wales-based restriction on national team selection would be moronic and guarantee the welsh national team entering the dark ages.

even South Africa do not place a restriction on already capped international players in foreign leagues, and they have a vastly greater pool of players to call upon. from what i can gather, new players cant get picked for SA if they are playing overseas.

I wish england would relax their non-selction of french based players. it's just silly and another example of unions irrationally trying to control the uncontrollable.

foreign players in top14 and the Jeff are the reason for the strength of most of the non-NZ pacific island teams, Italy and Argentina. how can that be a bad thing?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

what are you basing that on? how many tier1 international matches has he played since joining top14?

he is playing day in day out against far stronger oppostion than he got in the rabo, or when he was being rested for ireland, so once his endurance picks up, he is going to be a stronger player.

he has played 10 games for racing so far this season. how many would he have played by the same time for leinster - 5?

I'm basing it on interviews from Sexton who has already stated he wants to come back to Leinster after his stint with Racing. He is complaining about fatigue which is why he couldn't play against Samoa, so Racing has already robbed him of an Ireland cap.

I've seen him play a couple of times for Racing this season and he doesn't look the same player.

how long is his racing contract? would be unusual for it to be 1 yr only no?

is he surprised that racing want value for money?

he will come out of all this a stronger, tougher, wiser player IMHO, rather than playing "friendly" international matches of little consequence with excessive rest and preparation beforehand.

I give up  
Clermont have a great stock of current international and greatly talented players coming through in there region. Why do they even need to sign him? But they are just greedy and before long no welsh, South African, Irish, Scottish or Italian teams will have there big stars.
For once i agree with Leinster4Ever, they are destroying club rugby.

Be interesting how JD2 fairs trying to displace either Fofana one of the classiest 12s going or Mr Clement Rougerie who is a real beast of an OC and club captain. Could be some bench time coming his way.

Flood is rumoured to be going to one of Clermont, Tolouse and Toulon. His attacking skills would release that backline very nicely.

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

what are you basing that on? how many tier1 international matches has he played since joining top14?

he is playing day in day out against far stronger oppostion than he got in the rabo, or when he was being rested for ireland, so once his endurance picks up, he is going to be a stronger player.

he has played 10 games for racing so far this season. how many would he have played by the same time for leinster - 5?

I'm basing it on interviews from Sexton who has already stated he wants to come back to Leinster after his stint with Racing. He is complaining about fatigue which is why he couldn't play against Samoa, so Racing has already robbed him of an Ireland cap.

I've seen him play a couple of times for Racing this season and he doesn't look the same player.

how long is his racing contract? would be unusual for it to be 1 yr only no?

is he surprised that racing want value for money?

he will come out of all this a stronger, tougher, wiser player IMHO, rather than playing "friendly" international matches of little consequence with excessive rest and preparation beforehand.

  How will he be a stronger, wiser player by playing for Racing when he was at one of the best teams in Europe under some of the best coaches in the around.

He was getting more than enough time between Ireland and Leinster. He played over 30 times last year before going on the Lions tour. You English make no sense. One minute your complaining about players being played too much the next minute your are complaining about players being rested.

Jhamer25 wrote:I give up  
Clermont have a great stock of current international and greatly talented players coming through in there region. Why do they even need to sign him? But they are just greedy and before long no welsh, South African, Irish, Scottish or Italian teams will have there big stars.
For once i agree with Leinster4Ever, they are destroying club rugby.

Would have to agree, even if the English players/clubs aren't affected as badly, its not great to see Clermont/Toulon/Montpellier/Racing/Toulouse just pick off star players one by one

formerly known as Sam wrote:Be interesting how JD2 fairs trying to displace either Fofana one of the classiest 12s going or Mr Clement Rougerie who is a real beast of an OC and club captain. Could be some bench time coming his way.

Flood is rumoured to be going to one of Clermont, Tolouse and Toulon. His attacking skills would release that backline very nicely.

Sam, Rougerie is 33 now, and will be nearly 34 by next summer, so this looks like a Rougerie replacement to me - makes sense in that light

formerly known as Sam wrote:Be interesting how JD2 fairs trying to displace either Fofana one of the classiest 12s going or Mr Clement Rougerie who is a real beast of an OC and club captain...............

JD2's credentials when it comes to pushing outside-centres out of starting XVs are pretty much unparalleled.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How dies playing in France take you to a higher level? It hasn't worked for Sexton. If anything its had the opposite effect.

what are you basing that on? how many tier1 international matches has he played since joining top14?

he is playing day in day out against far stronger oppostion than he got in the rabo, or when he was being rested for ireland, so once his endurance picks up, he is going to be a stronger player.

he has played 10 games for racing so far this season. how many would he have played by the same time for leinster - 5?

I'm basing it on interviews from Sexton who has already stated he wants to come back to Leinster after his stint with Racing. He is complaining about fatigue which is why he couldn't play against Samoa, so Racing has already robbed him of an Ireland cap.

I've seen him play a couple of times for Racing this season and he doesn't look the same player.

how long is his racing contract? would be unusual for it to be 1 yr only no?

is he surprised that racing want value for money?

he will come out of all this a stronger, tougher, wiser player IMHO, rather than playing "friendly" international matches of little consequence with excessive rest and preparation beforehand.

  How will he be a stronger, wiser player by playing for Racing when he was at one of the best teams in Europe under some of the best coaches in the around.

He was getting more than enough time between Ireland and Leinster. He played over 30 times last year before going on the Lions tour. You English make no sense. One minute your complaining about players being played too much the next minute your are complaining about players being rested.

do you not understand that the quality of opposition in top14 is just a teensy bit better, stronger, quicker than opposition in rabo? in addition to which sexton has averaged 15 club games per annum for leinster. he will prob do that in half a season for racing. did you think after they paid eur750k per annum that he was going to play only half the matches and be allowed to rest nicely for all the irrelevant international friendlies?

i dont think anyone english is complaining about sexton being overplayed in france. or the armitage brothers. or haskell. none of them can play for england under current policies.