Wales vs Argentina

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday, November 16

Kick-off: 14:30 GMT

Venue: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

Assistant referees: Steve Walsh (Australia), Lourens van der Merwe (South Africa)

Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Assessor: Lyndon Bray (SANZAR)


The teams:

Wales:

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 George North, 13 Cory Allen, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Liam Williams, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Mike Phillips, 8 Toby Faletau, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Sam Warburton (c), 5 Alun-Wyn Jones, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Rhodri Jones, 2 Richard Hibbard, 1 Gethin Jenkins.

Replacements: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Samson Lee, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Ryan Jones, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Ashley Beck.


Argentina:

15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Horacio Agulla, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernández, 11 Santiago Cordero, 10 Nicolás Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (c), 7 Julio Farias Cabello, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Maximiliano Bustos, 2 Eusebio Guiñazú, 1 Marcos Ayerza.

Replacements: 16 Santiago Iglesias Valdez, 17 Nahuel Lobo, 18 Matías Díaz, 19 Tomás Lavanini, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Tomas Cubelli, 22 Gabriel Ascárate, 23 Lucas González Amorosino.

Been very impressed with Scott Williams in the last 2 games

Scrappy game now...the ball's popping up all over the place. Wales need to run with it though and not keep kicking it away.

Why take Cory Allen off? Surely give Scott a rest?

Guys I have been working all day, recorded some matches and you keep outting the score up of other matches.

Have some common courtesy please.

Biltong wrote:Guys I have been working all day, recorded some matches and you keep outting the score up of other matches.

Have some common courtesy please.

With all due respect Billtong, many people appreciate updates as they can't watch or record live matches as they happen, maybe you should avoid social media until you've watched such games unless you don't mind knowing the scores. Also, you can work out the scores from the reactions on these match threads anyway.

wales606 wrote:Why take Cory Allen off? Surely give Scott a rest?

I'm guessing Williams is having a better game.

Scrappy last 10

Faletau MOTM. He's been excellent.  

Hmmm was that a little dig at Liam Williams there, with the leg to the head?

Biltong wrote:Guys I have been working all day, recorded some matches and you keep outting the score up of other matches.

Have some common courtesy please.

Come on mate behave will you
Its nothing to do with common courtesy when you come on a public domain site and expect the world wide web and his dog to realise you have been working and recorded a match......... have we got crystal balls

Well Cari certainly hasn't  

Cari wrote:

Biltong wrote:Guys I have been working all day, recorded some matches and you keep outting the score up of other matches.

Have some common courtesy please.

With all due respect Billtong, many people appreciate updates as they can't watch or record live matches as they happen, maybe you should avoid social media until you've watched such games unless you don't mind knowing the scores.  Also, you can work out the scores from the reactions on these match threads anyway.

Cari, that is why there is A NZ vs England thread.

Samson binned on his debut - doh!

Referee didn't give Wales much at the breakdown, but Wales won the contact and the defence was very good in the second half.

Probably should have scored a couple more too.

Biltong wrote:

Cari wrote:

Biltong wrote:Guys I have been working all day, recorded some matches and you keep outting the score up of other matches.

Have some common courtesy please.

With all due respect Billtong, many people appreciate updates as they can't watch or record live matches as they happen, maybe you should avoid social media until you've watched such games unless you don't mind knowing the scores.  Also, you can work out the scores from the reactions on these match threads anyway.

Cari, that is why there is A NZ vs England thread.

Indeed, but even if you're avoiding certain threads, there is a strong chance that you will come across, at least who won a certain match elsewhere if not on here. Like I said, it's advisable to avoid social media altogether until you've watched the game you want to see unless you're happy to watch it regardless. That's just the way things are these days. Like yourself, there are people at work who cannot watch or record games and want updates or like me, can only watch one game at a time and cannot record others.

Very good performance by Wales as a whole team....... congrats

Anyway, a good and badly needed win for Wales 40-6 at FT.

See you all on the Ireland match thread!

I enjoyed that

Thanks Cari, wales606 and rest for your company......... that was the starter folks, see you for the main meal tomorrow v  

Who said Wales can't beat a side from the Southern Hemisphere!

I thought in the first half that Argentina looked better in attack, and Wales had missed quite a few too many tackles.  Yet Argentina made many silly mistakes and Wales capitalised, just like the top teams will always do.  The try from George North was fantastic though, very well done from Mike Phillips creating the space.

In the second half, Wales looked really good.  They just tore the Argentine defence apart and were generally very clinical, which Argentina most certainly weren't.  They also improved defensively, and won the contact area.

Wales just need to get their head right for the big three SH sides.  Honestly, they are more than capable of winning.

One criticism though, Halfpenny really does ALWAYS go straight to the boot, even if he has the space to counter attack.  It is quite frustrating, as he is a very dangerous runner as we have seen in the past.  He needs to be more confident in his running game.

Congrats Wales!

Now thats more like it

Good performance welshies..

Now for the big one!!

why play hook at 10 for the tonga match ( rumour has it from the camp) this is where we are not getting it right . share the game between biggar and rp in preparation for aussie game.

game fell away when hook came on 2 daft mistakes again, i suppose his fans will say ' well he's been playing 15 for perpignan ' but they are still crowing for him to play 10.

Stuart Davies said in this weeks evening post, he wouldnt blame hook if he walked away from wales, felt he should have played 15.about time he went i say, seen enough.

gavstar wrote:why play hook at 10 for the tonga match ( rumour has it from the camp) this is where we are not getting it right .  share the game between biggar and rp in preparation for aussie game.

game fell away when hook came on 2 daft mistakes again, i suppose his fans will say ' well he's been playing 15 for perpignan ' but they are still crowing for him to play 10.

Stuart Davies said in this weeks evening post, he wouldnt blame hook if he walked away from wales, felt he should have played 15.about time he went i say, seen enough.

Completely agree, there is no reason to play Hook against Tonga. Decide who will start against Aus and then start the other FH.

Hook wouldn't be near the 23 if everyone was fit, don't see why he keeps getting the 22 shirt when we have 2 Flyhalves playing very well

Cory Allen is out with a dislocated shoulder :/

Scott Williams has toe ligament damage and could miss the Tonga game.

Owen Williams is apparently carrying a knock

So that's 5 centres out


Beck and Hook moves into midfield?


Also, I would like to thank Wales for injuring Patchell, Allen and Owen Williams in 2 weeks - Blues fan love watching Hewitt, Evans and Davies play :/

Awh schitt. Those injuries suck! We'll have no squad left at this rate.

ARG rugby going backwards at a rate of knots. They need professional franchises immediately.

We were really good today but Argentina were terrible.
They have such great players, why are they playing so bad.
Anyway, don't care what anyone says but Hibbard was MOM
So strong and put everything into everything.
Take my hat of t Rhodri as well, was by no means a tank in the scrum but gave us a steady platform against possibly the best loosehead scrummager in world rugby. However I do think Gatland's plan was to bring down the scrum a lot, he is known for having risky tactics like this. I think we were lucky a few times with the scrum calls.
Well done to Samson for his debut, shame he was carded but i hope he starts next week against Tonga.

Overall great performance, now lets build no it for the Aussies

Well played Wales on the result. Just about to watch the game

LeinsterFan4life wrote:ARG rugby going backwards at a rate of knots. They need professional franchises immediately.

I agree that they do need pro franchises/clubs, but they were pretty good nationally a few years back, and that was without any pro teams. Not sure it makes a difference really (given past experience). Ironically they're now worse playing S15 then when they were playing sporadically.

Edit: I mean rugby championship not S15.

Very good win for Wales against a poor Argentina side. Big difference from last week, nowhere near as brutal, which enabled Wales to win the collisions and keep the 1/2 backs comfortably on the front foot.

Jenkins, great occasion for him to win his 100th cap but looks to be struggling in the scrum, has his reign come to an end?
Hibbard, another good shift and Ken Owens played well when he came on.
Rhodri Jones, great performance for the Scarlet's 4th choice no 3! Struggled a bit in the second half and Samson added a lot to the scrum when he came on.
AW Jones and Davies both played well in a dominant pack. Good to see Charteris having a run out.
Warburton played well but for me he is a better 7 than 6. Tipuric, played well and was very unlucky to be binned as was Lee.
Faletau, great game, just gets better and better.
Phillips, played very well and took his try superbly. Young Brynmor added little when he came on, I hope young Rhodri gets a chance from the bench against Tonga.
Biggar's game improved as the game went on a few errant kicks, one out on the full and another over the dead ball line. Moved the ball quickly to the more creative backs outside him. Hook looked ponderous and flakey when he came on, could struggle to hold down a bench spot in the 6N.
Scott Williams was pretty close to MOM, great defensive performance and often the catalyst of Wales attacks.
Cory Allen, was growing in confidence until his injury. Who will play centre against Tonga?
George is simply a freak, massive man, blistering pace and Shane like dancing feet!
Sanjay played very well, for Faletau's try, he beat his man and at full pace sent an arrow straight pass that Toby was able to take without breaking stride. Spoilt it with a careless kick ahead a few minutes latter.
Halfpenny, kicked and ran very well, but I would like to see him run more against poor opposition.

Griff wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:ARG rugby going backwards at a rate of knots. They need professional franchises immediately.

I agree that they do need pro franchises/clubs, but they were pretty good nationally a few years back, and that was without any pro teams. Not sure it makes a difference really (given past experience). Ironically they're now worse playing S15 then when they were playing sporadically.

Edit: I mean rugby championship not S15.

That is because they had great players such as Contepomi etc. They can't replace them because they are relying on French and English clubs to recruit their players but thats not happening as often anymore because they are now in the Rugby Championship so their players are less attractive (Montpellier and Racing used to be full of ARG players)

They have an aging team with no dept whatsoever (proven last summer when they played England) . Playing the odd game here and there hid that. A couple of pro teams would help this a lot but I don't know where they could enter them.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Griff wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:ARG rugby going backwards at a rate of knots. They need professional franchises immediately.

I agree that they do need pro franchises/clubs, but they were pretty good nationally a few years back, and that was without any pro teams. Not sure it makes a difference really (given past experience). Ironically they're now worse playing S15 then when they were playing sporadically.

Edit: I mean rugby championship not S15.

That is because they had great players such as Contepomi etc. They can't replace them because they are relying on French and English clubs to recruit their players but thats not happening as often anymore because they are now in the Rugby Championship so their players are less attractive (Montpellier and Racing used to be full of ARG players)

They have an aging team with no dept whatsoever (proven last summer when they played England) . Playing the odd game here and there hid that. A couple of pro teams would help this a lot but I don't know where they could enter them.

or alternatively, Arg competing in the RC is responsible for their players being stuck in limbo? Ironic, huh.

No

Great result Wales - awesome stuff!

Good Wales winm but it helps when they have a decent flyhalf and Phillips had a very good game. Hibbard was my MOTM, Toby had a very good game but he had a little luck with a ccouple of balls shooting out of the scrum one leading to his try.

Biggar has to play against Aus but if I am a betting man Priestland will play and as a result Wales will lose.

I noticed Bradley had his arm in a sling to add to the Blues injury list.

Good win today but Warburton is no 6 against top teams.

wales606 wrote:Cory Allen is out with a dislocated shoulder :/

Scott Williams has toe ligament damage and could miss the Tonga game.

Owen Williams is apparently carrying a knock

So that's 5 centres out


Beck and Hook moves into midfield?


Also, I would like to thank Wales for injuring Patchell, Allen and Owen Williams in 2 weeks - Blues fan love watching Hewitt, Evans and Davies play :/

WHY! :@

Great all round performance today I thought.

The 2 big calls before the game were Rh Jones and Allen, both coped very well Allen especially and shame about his injury.

Biggar for me proved he should be No1 but I still think Priestland has a Welsh future.

Toby was rightly MOM closely followed by Hibbard. To have the options to pick 3 from 4 of Warburton, Lydiate, faletau and Tipuric is a great position to be in.

Centres are going to be the obvious are of worry for the rest of the Autumn, we had heard that Hook looked set to start at 10 next week but possibly now it could be him and Beck in the centre plus Hook isn't available for the Australia game.

"Biggar has to play against Aus but if I am a betting man Priestland will play and as a result Wales will lose"

Put things in perspective, Biggar played well today, he made some mistakes but he was playing against an Argentina side who have not won in a year and was rarely put under any pressure! Priestland made some mistakes last week, but it was against the 2nd best side in the World and a very high pressure match!

Will Wales beat Australia? If they play as well as they did today against Ireland, it will be a very tough game! The result will not depend on Priestland or Biggar, it will depend on which pack of forwards is on top.

Seagultaf wrote:"Biggar has to play against Aus but if I am a betting man Priestland will play and as a result Wales will lose"

Put things in perspective, Biggar played well today, he made some mistakes but he was playing against an Argentina side who have not won in a year and was rarely put under any pressure! Priestland made some mistakes last week, but it was against the 2nd best side in the World and a very high pressure match!

Will Wales beat Australia? If they play as well as they did today against Ireland, it will be a very tough game! The result will not depend on Priestland or Biggar, it will depend on which pack of forwards is on top.

I don't think Australia were great today though; Ireland were just really really poor.
Even the Aussie scrum was too strong and got a lot of points from that; hopefully if Aaron is fit, we won't have the embarrassment Ireland had today come scrum time.

Seagultaf wrote:"Biggar has to play against Aus but if I am a betting man Priestland will play and as a result Wales will lose"

Put things in perspective, Biggar played well today, he made some mistakes but he was playing against an Argentina side who have not won in a year and was rarely put under any pressure! Priestland made some mistakes last week, but it was against the 2nd best side in the World and a very high pressure match!

Will Wales beat Australia? If they play as well as they did today against Ireland, it will be a very tough game! The result will not depend on Priestland or Biggar, it will depend on which pack of forwards is on top.

Irelands defeat was more to do with defence (or lack of) than whoever was at 10. Oz pack has been derided but Irelands pack hasn't been lauded over the last year or 2, so not a lot to be gleaned from it with regards to how Wales will deal with it. Prior to the AI's I'd have Wales pack as favs, few injuries and with big hitting Tonga on Fri... Don't know what/who would/could be our pack for Oz.... .

A depleted welsh backline could still make some scores against Oz though.. we'll see  

Good to see some clinical finishing, good to see our best players performing to the levels we expect, good to see two new caps do well on their debuts, good to see Rhodri Jones hold his own in the Scrum.

We missed chances, dropped balls, and we have more injuries than before.

I am very happy to see us thrash Argentina, who are far from the team they can be, but I want to see Wales work harder for next week and twice that for the week after.

maestegmafia wrote:Good to see some clinical finishing, good to see our best players performing to the levels we expect, good to see two new caps do well on their debuts, good to see Rhodri Jones hold his own in the Scrum.

We missed chances, dropped balls, and we have more injuries than before.

I am very happy to see us thrash Argentina, who are far from the team they can be, but I want to see Wales work harder for next week and twice that for the week after.

T'was good to see we dropped complacency and finally adopt a ruthless streak

So after that result what to we now do for the Tonga game, I am usually against wholesale changes as we have come unstuck in the past but what with injuries and Gatland already saying there will be changes what side can we expect to see:

Bevington (James not available)
Owens
Lee
Charteris
Evans (is he fit)
Coombs
R Jones (capt)
Tipuric

R Williams
Priestland (Is Patchell fit)

Prydie
Hook
Beck
Amos

Li Williams

For me that would normally be to many changes but if we ask some of the 1st choice players to back up off the bench maybe it would work.

The stats make pretty interesting reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24948894

Just goes to show that stats do not always tell the whole picture. Looking at them you'd think that Argentina would have won, or perhaps a close game; Argentina came out top on territory and possession, missed less tackles, made half the tackles of Wales (so Wales should have tired more perhaps), etc., etc. I guess the true story that the stats doesn't tell is that Argentina did very little with all of that possession, territory and line breaks. Our high tackle count was maybe what stopped them in their tracks and kept them off the scoreboard.

So what do we do about the Tonga game? The centre partnership will be an interesting one, will they call up cover or try North at 13?

IronMike wrote:So what do we do about the Tonga game? The centre partnership will be an interesting one, will they call up cover or try North at 13?

IM,

I posted my team above I reckon we will see Hook and Beck now even though it was rumoured Hook would be starting at 10 and doubt Hook will play.

Priestland to get another run out or is Patchell fit?

Does it matter?

what are you going to learn from the tonga game??

Rory_Gallagher wrote:One criticism though, Halfpenny really does ALWAYS go straight to the boot, even if he has the space to counter attack.  It is quite frustrating, as he is a very dangerous runner as we have seen in the past.  He needs to be more confident in his running game.

I suspect he has been told to do this. It makes me die a little inside when he kicks away what should be counter-attack ball.

IronMike wrote:So what do we do about the Tonga game? The centre partnership will be an interesting one, will they call up cover or try North at 13?

Looks like Williams could be fit. I think they will bring Hook into the centre with Beck if Williams is out. I believe Hook was going to play at 10 next game so that throws a spanner in the works somewhat.

Personally If Mr G wants to play Hook at 10 for next game then I would bring Byrne into the team as FB, put Halfpenny on the wing bring North into midfield at 13. Bit radical and perhaps not long term but horses for courses.

15 Byrne
14 Halfpenny
13 North
12 Beck / Williams
11 Williams
10 Hook
9 Phillips

However!!........ Biggar and Priestland have played FB this season so a few options at FB (1/2p, Hook, The Priest and Mr Big) and 10. Knowing how pig headed Gatland is I cant see him selecting Byrne.

With regards to Halfpenny and his incessant kicking under orders..... it does seem contradictory to Gatlands comments

Warren Gatland wrote:"You are never satisfied but to put 40 points on them, knowing we could have scored more, and keeping them tryless is a pretty good performance all round," said Gatland.

"We got the buffer and the lead [early on], but what was pleasing was that players saw the chance to play what was in front of them.

"Players moving the ball from their own 22 or goal line...that is what we are trying to develop.

"We created lost of chances, but a couple of times the final pass might have seen us score a couple of more points"