Record Set Straight

by GloriousEmpire Sat 16 Nov - 17:35

First topic message reminder :

Let's face reality.

Lancaster's England are hugely one dimensional. Build in the model of Woodward's 2003 team, they come straight and hard and without subtlety.

The Backline is plodding at best and rely on recycled quick ball to maintain linear momentum.

Last year a sick All Blacks team weren't up to the physical challenge of the relentless direct approach.

This year, despite fatigue they proved a fit All Blacks team have the muscle to repel the overwhelming route one approach and the finesse to take the chances and score enough tries to win.

For England now a huge challenge. Can they get even *more* physical? Or do they have to change direction totally and look to build a team with more to offer?

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 0:21

I wouldn't go that far.

by Scratch Sun 17 Nov - 6:25

England have always relied on a strong pack, today their pack won up front but their backs, Brown aside, are fairly 2nd rate and were shown up by NZ.
As for their display being a la 2003, couldn't be further from the truth…..England's offload game up to 2003 was better even than NZ and Wales.
Lancaster is trying to change the 1 dimension and has changed the point of attack from first receiver to offload to a second recover who carries up. Their retention today was outstanding. But their backs were poor.
They are very good at supporting the first receiver they have yet to adapt their support play.
Hate to admit SCW is right but he is, their needs to be a radical re think behind the scrum, no Tuilagi means England have no midfield.
The sooner Barrit and Tuilagi get back with Wade and Yarde backed by Brown, the sooner England's pack will see some results

by Cowshot Sun 17 Nov - 11:41

Scratch: You probably don't know as you are so new: Glorious Empire is a Kiwi and loathes the English. He originally came on here writing as if he were English and of a particularly overblown facepalm variety. He got caught out (I happened to be there when it happened and remember it well because I'd been suspicious of him too) and now just drips bile. His purpose is not to discuss rugby with you, it's to wind you up.

His tragedy - like so many of his type of whatever nationality - is that he has taken on the qualities he claims to despise. He's become identical to what he hates.

by Cowshot Sun 17 Nov - 11:47

accidental repetition

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 11:50

Dont feed the trolls

by fa0019 Sun 17 Nov - 11:51

GloriousEmpire wrote:Anyway. This is about as interesting as England's Backline play. So let's move on.

Given that the men with numbers 11..15 for England were largely irrelevant to this game. What would be the point in blaming the absence of different anonymous under used men to actually explain today's failure in any adequate way?

England could have played a more expansive game but wit heir current players it's not worth it. The boks leaked 6 tries when they tried to be expansive against NZ who are the masters of open space and counter attack.

You do best with what you have. If they had tuilagi they would have used him well, if england had the pace of yarde then they would have used him well.. But Foden is no yarde (the man who skinned ngwenya).

Their game plan held up pretty well... You don't play to your own strengths, you play to your best strategy which maintains you competitive and in the hunt for victory. At the moment with Ashton, Foden as a replacement wing and Tomkins, against NZ it's best to limit their time with the ball out wide and isolated.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 11:55

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. Ignore him and he will get fed up of attempting to wind folk up. engage with him you encourage him. His aim is not to talk about rugby its to wind up posters.

by fa0019 Sun 17 Nov - 11:58

GE has his plus sides.... This site would be far less active and entertaining without him. Simply don't get emotional, his comments are often baseless and if you treat them with basic fact based retorts he has little place to run.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 12:01

Nonsense - all you are doing is validating his trolls and feeding his ego. ( as indeed is this post even tho its clear I despise him) The only way to deal with him is to ignore him and to report his trolling. Everytime you answer him you feed his ego and give him the excuse he needs to continue to troll. You will not argue him down with facts. He doesn't care about debate. he simply wants to irritate folk and to suck them into pointless boobie for tat argueing.

Please - for the sake of the forum ignore him

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 12:50

Not the case. I merely don't feel the need to namby pamby around with platitudinous waffle. I'll happily call it as I see it.

England kept it close with some very direct albeit single dimensional play. To win games they'll need to be more creative and expansive and not rely solely on damage limitation.

That's not a WUM or a troll. It's just an opinion. If you don't want to hear it then back to your ostrich pose and talk on about midfield options and taking positives and building nicely and injuries...

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:06

Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.

Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.

Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..

If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:08

mystiroakey wrote:Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.

Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.

Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..

If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!

Don't feed the trolls. Ignore and report.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:13

He is here to stay TJ.

If everyone on here had a pact not to talk to him, then count me in.

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:24

mystiroakey wrote:Jeas you talk so much tosh GE.

Either that or you have the reasoning power of a slug.

Look dude this close game only proved that Eng can beat NZ and that last year was not a fluke..

If you want to have a pop at our styles fine- crack on lad.. Its all nonsense and just to make you feel slightly less inferior that you clearly are IRL!

England "proved" they can beat NZ by losing? Huh? Who's the slug reasoner here? England didn't look like scoring a try that wasn't a result of a fatty falling in the ball with the help of a little obstruction. Same story as against the Aussies. In order to prove anything they'll have to loosen the reigns of constructive control and I'm afraid that will leave them even more vulnerable defensively.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:28

England beat NZ last time and matched them this time..

Only just got beat by the better side on the day.

Your reasoning is as valid as a flat earth. you come back saying same story against the Aussies(we beat the Aussies)

I hope you don't believe what you post dude.. That doesn't say much for you

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:30

How did they match them? They lost. Sorry but that's a fact. Three tries to one.

France didn't celebrate their loss last week. SA didn't celebrate losing at Ellis Park. Australia didn't celebrate losing the BC for another year.

Why must England fans insist on pretending that a loss is a great achievement just because it wasn't a humiliating loss? Is that really how low the bar is set?

It reminds me of that lap of honour in Manchester to be honest.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:31

So the fact is we beat NZ last time, we beat aus this time, nz beat eng this time..

But the only important result is NZ beating Eng.

You do spout some nonsense dont you Wink

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:31

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:31

Guys - don't feed the troll

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:33

mystiroakey wrote:So the fact is we beat NZ last time, we beat aus this time, nz beat eng this time..

But the only important result is NZ beating Eng.

You do spout some nonsense dont you

Only one team is celebrating their defeat as some kind of proxy moral victory this AI. Did Wales celebrate their loss to SA as "proof" that they cold beat them? And if they had wouldn't you have been mocking them?

England beat NZ about once per decade. You've had it last year right on schedule. It's like Halley's Comet. Enjoy the memory and wait for the next one.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:34

"Why must England fans insist on pretending that a loss is a great achievement just because it wasn't a humiliating loss? Is that really how low the bar is set?"

name one person that is doing that? because I can tell you factually we are not celebrating a thing

but yes the Saffas did celebrate there loss, and we dont know anything about the French fans and what they do.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:35

"Only one team is celebrating their defeat as some kind of proxy moral victory this AI. Did Wales celebrate their loss to SA as "proof" that they cold beat them? And if they had wouldn't you have been mocking them?"

WE ARE NOT, but the saffas did in there loss to you

What have you got to say to the realities of the situation GE?

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:37

Name one person? Well, you fulla. With this "we matched them" and "we proved we can beat them". Sorry but that's just deluded nonsense. You "proved" that you can keep it close and lose by about two scores. And if anything this years result just adds credence to the belief that last years win relied heavily on the ABs being off colour. England offered nothing new.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:38

Don't feed the troll. You will not persuade him with argument - all he wants to do is suck you into a stupid circular argument or boobie for tat. all you are doing is validating his trolling, allowing him to bask in his idea of a "victory" ie getting you sidetracked into a pointless argument. Just ignore him or post stupid smilies at him
Broken Record

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:39

that isnt celebrating anything.

We matched an ok side and fell just short.. NZ are not the greatest team, of all time..and that is proven by a pretty make shift/weak england smashing you and then matching you in the last two games

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:41

You can't simultaneously "match" and "fall short". You are flattering nz by suggesting there is some acceptable way to lose a game to them.

A win may be a win, but a loss is also that.

England weren't good enough. End of story.

Halley's Comet. Like I said.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:42

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 13:43

True we wernt good enough . We all except that. We dont have to be the best to enjoy our rugby. We have many other strings to our bows

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 13:44

TJ - suggest you read the house rules about ensuring posts contribute and add something to a thread and don't merely include "+1" or a
Pointless icon. At the moment you're spamming the board with personal attacks and inane gibberish posts. I'd hate to see you get a ban mate!

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 13:44

by butterfingers Sun 17 Nov - 14:19

by No 7&1/2 Sun 17 Nov - 14:42

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah the sweet sound of excuses.

lol. After an initial article quoting excuses! ghost

by quinsforever Sun 17 Nov - 14:47

GE, i'm guessing from your posts of the last 24 hours that you won't be coming along to drinks on Weds? Shame.

Good game yday. Well played both sides. Game-turning point was hartley banging himself on mccaw's hip, and t youngs conceding 4 lineouts against the throw in the last 20 minutes.

am feeling very positive about where this england side can build to over the next 18months. 340caps yday vs NZ's 800+ caps. lots of upside to hope for.

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 15:00

No shame in being optimistic!

Why wouldn't I come along?

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:01

What of you going out on Wednesday? you turning a new leaf. the all blacks finding the new players that can play to the level of its aging side or England becoming the best side again?

by englandglory4ever Sun 17 Nov - 15:08

Nz were there for the taking. They were yesterdays toast. Until unforced error gifted the game to them. The England young guns will learn and soon be downing old Nz side with ease. Carter and mccaw are spent forces they are on the way down no doubt.

by Exiledinborders Sun 17 Nov - 15:10

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah the sweet sound of excuses.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Last year a sick All Blacks team weren't up to the physical challenge of the relentless direct approach.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:11

It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.

by quinsforever Sun 17 Nov - 15:15

GloriousEmpire wrote:No shame in being optimistic!

Why wouldn't I come along?

i have logged in late today but it looked you had wound a few people up.

not me though.

great, i look forwards to seeing you wednesday. and in spite of engl not winning, i'll still buy you the first beer.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:18

Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday

by Exiledinborders Sun 17 Nov - 15:22

quinsforever wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:No shame in being optimistic!

Why wouldn't I come along?
i have logged in late today but it looked you had wound a few people up.

not me though.

great, i look forwards to seeing you wednesday. and in spite of engl not winning, i'll still buy you the first beer.

I suspect GE's mummy will not let him out on a school night.

by Cyril Sun 17 Nov - 15:24

mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday

I agree. The thing is, he would then realise that there are real people out there and would feel awkward continuing with his posting style.

It would be great for the forum if he did turn up.

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 15:25

mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday

I go right past on my way home, why wouldn't I? Surely you're not the type to let a bit of in board banter colour your perspective of a person you've never met?

I'd really like to meet TJ. I want to find out if he can talk and form sentences or if he communicates in pictograms in real life too.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 15:27

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 15:29

mystiroakey wrote:It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.

Charles Piutau, Ben smith, Julean Savea, Aaron Smith, TKB, Luatua, Cruden, Barrett, Ardie Savea, oh the list goes on...

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:30

GloriousEmpire wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Quins dont be so ridiculas- There is ZERO CHANCE of him being there on wednesday
I go right past on my way home, why wouldn't I? Surely you're not the type to let a bit of in board banter colour your perspective of a person you've never met?

I'd really like to meet TJ. I want to find out if he can talk and form sentences or if he communicates in pictograms in real life too.

I honestly 100% dont believe you will come. As you didn't with your previous persona's.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:30

GloriousEmpire wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:It is actually very disappointing to see the AB's not being able to blood any youngsters in.. They have decided to (foolishly) think about every game like its there last- therefore have to play the best side week in week out. The problem with the all blacks is this off course- when it comes to the WC and squads are needed they will again be found out as king of the friendlies only.
Charles Piutau, Ben smith, Julean Savea, Aaron Smith, TKB, Luatua, Cruden, Barrett, Ardie Savea, oh the list goes on...

Who??

by GloriousEmpire Sun 17 Nov - 15:32

I'll bring some flash cards for TJ. One with a pint on it. One with a picture of an ape urinating on his own feet for when he's had three. Possibly one with a fist and a broken glass for after the twelf time he's shown the pint card...

by TJ Sun 17 Nov - 15:35

GE - why don't you go away. You are not wanted here with your perpetual trolling. Getting under you skin am I? you repetitive low level unskilled boring dull troll.

Its not big and its not clever to continually troll forums especially when yo are as poor at it as you are

I wish the mods would ban you as they have your previous incarnations.

by mystiroakey Sun 17 Nov - 15:35

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'll bring some flash cards for TJ. One with a pint on it. One with a picture of an ape urinating on his own feet for when he's had too many pints. Possibly one with a fist and a broken glass for after the twelf time he's shown the pint card...

That comment tells me pretty clearly that you wont turn up..

You dont know who these people are mate.. Yes I am pretty 100% almost everyone is a decent bloke IRL.. BUt you wouldn't have to balls to say that to someone you are about to meet- that glass will be wrapped around your head mate

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