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Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic

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slashermcguirk
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Post by hawkeye Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:00 pm

With a second singles player who usually plays on the challenger circuit rather than the main tour the doubles rubber was crucial for Serbia to have any chance of taking home the Davis Cup. Serbia's top ranked singles player is in contrast pretty good but securing two singles wins was never going to be enough to win this particular title. To have any chance of winning the tie against the committed defending champions Serbia had to play their very best players in the doubles. Second best would not be enough. Both Berdych and Stepanek played both singles and doubles. Djokovic should have played the doubles. By not doing so he is responsible for feeding poor Lajovic to the lions (or Radik Stepanek). Djokovik may has well have sat this tie out as he has handed the Davis Cup to the Czech Republic. What was he thinking?

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Post by laverfan Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:54 pm

Better question is what was Troicki thinking? Laugh

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Post by Jeremy_Kyle Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:09 pm

hawkeye wrote:With a second singles player who usually plays on the challenger circuit rather than the main tour the doubles rubber was crucial for Serbia to have any chance of taking home the Davis Cup. Serbia's top ranked singles player is in contrast pretty good but securing two singles wins was never going to be enough to win this particular title. To have any chance of winning the tie against the committed defending champions Serbia had to play their very best players in the doubles. Second best would not be enough. Both Berdych and Stepanek played both singles and doubles. Djokovic should have played the doubles. By not doing so he is responsible for feeding poor Lajovic to the lions (or Radik Stepanek). Djokovik may has well have sat this tie out as he has handed the Davis Cup to the Czech Republic. What was he thinking?
About a nice holiday in the Maldives, having a fresh drink on the seaside and the warm company of Maria Kirilenko.......... perhaps smoking a cigar?
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Post by HM Murdock Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:56 pm

The settled team should take precedence over a good singles player.

I think Berdych is correct:

"You’re facing a lot of challenges because I think to play good doubles you really need to have some experience. It's not really easy just to step on court and just really play your best. Even that Novak is one of the best players on the world, he's not going to tell you it's a piece of cake. You need to adjust your game.

Even if he's returning great, in doubles it's different because there's another guy on the net so you really need to deal with different space, which don't have in singles. So really there is a lot of different things. I'm not saying that you have to practice doubles but I think you have to play at least a couple of them during the season or before that so that you will find the rhythm that you will feel really comfortable [with your partner]. So it's really not the same as singles.”

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:09 pm

No, Djokovic would have made a huge difference and should have played the doubles. That's obvious. Even Djokovic will know himself he should have played, you can almost guarantee that. It was a huge tactical (or even selfish) blunder making his result against Berdych irrelevant and the tie won after Saturday.

Lajovic was handed an impossible task - the crucial rubber against a confident Stepanek, who thrives on these occasions, on a fast indoor surface and ranked way above him. The poor guy was destroyed in front of his home city crowd so is now unecessarily landed with mental baggage to get over. Sorry, Novak's a nice guy but he did wrong on this one. And he'll know it.


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Post by JuliusHMarx Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:21 pm

Djokovic very rarely plays Davis Cup doubles - only 4 rubbers, won 2, lost 2, with the last victory coming in 2008. One of the more recent defeats was to Berdych/Stepanek.

Given that the Serbian strategy, was has been fairly successful, is for Djoko not to play the doubles, it would be have been an odd and risky choice for him to play doubles in the final.

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:26 pm

Yes but this tie was in Belgrade...with that crowd alone Zimonjic/Djokovic would have been elevated in their potency, indeed Zimonjic being probably inspired to play better. Djokovic's volleying has also improved out of sight this year. Zimonjic/Djokovic would have been a stronger pairing than Zimonjic/Bozoljac for this particular tie IMO. It's simply a bad decision in my opinion, one Djokovic will be rueing I'm sure. What's the point of saving yourself for singles if the results don't matter...

Anyway it was probably over as soon as Tipsy said he was crocked. I just feel sorry for Lajovic being handed his own ass on a plate in front of his home city crowd when the nation's eyes were upon him. I bet that didn't sit easy with Djokovic either...


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Post by JuliusHMarx Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:36 pm

We don't know how tired Djoko is feeling after his end-of-season run. To split up the pair that beat the Bryan brothers would have been a risk. It might have paid off, it might not, but I don't think it was an obvious choice by any means to play Djoko in the doubles.

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:38 pm

Yes but it's commonly known that the Zim/Bozo win over Bry/Bry was a "Darcis" moment...
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Post by Henman Bill Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:40 pm

Hm. Not sure. Djokovic did go deep in Paris and London, so he may have been tired for 3 bo5 in 3 days. Also, it's an open question as to how much difference it would have made and how much better Djokovic would be than a regular doubles player. Personally, I think Djokovic should have probably been picked though. And backed himself to beat Berdych in the singles even tired.

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Post by Danny_1982 Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:45 pm

Was it Novak's decision not to play, or the captains?

If the choice was Novak's then yeah, it wasn't a great one. But if it was the captains (isn't it always the captains?) then how can Novak be blamed?

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:48 pm

Exactly, if Djoko/Zim had won then I'm sure he would have found extra depths of reserve to face Berdych given how much playing for Serbia means to him. This is the guy who played 11.5hrs in singles in 36 hours at AO2012...so come off it with the fatigue talk, doubles isn't that taxing.

Let's nor forget Bozo is currently ranked 283 in doubles (a high of 122)...so we're hardly talking a Fleming/McEnroe type combo here. Djokovic/Zim would have been much better IMO, especially IN Serbia. Anyway, it's all moot now.
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Post by hawkeye Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:50 pm

laverfan wrote:Better question is what was Troicki thinking? Laugh
You don't think it's a good question? It's the most pertinent question about the team selection for this final. For some reason the reporters didn't ask the Serbian team captain or Djokovic himself why he didn't play. Too scared? Trociki is serving a drugs ban and so what he was thinking has nothing to do with this Davis Cup final. Although even if he had been playing he has a losing H2H against Stepanek (including when they last played in Davis Cup in 2010) and Djokovic would have still been the obvious choice for the doubles.

There is no guarantee of course that with Djokovic playing Serbia would have won the doubles but he was needed to stand any chance against Berdych and Stepanek. By not playing a Czech Republic victory was virtually guaranteed. I wonder how this is being reported in Serbia and if it will affect Djokovic's popularity.

Great win by Berdych and Stepanek. One of the best Davis Cup teams in history!

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:51 pm

Djokovic was originally scheduled to play the doubles, he made himself unavailable by opting to sit it out.
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Post by Danny_1982 Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:57 pm

lydian wrote:Djokovic was originally scheduled to play the doubles, he made himself unavailable by opting to sit it out.
Oh.... Well that was not the best choice he's ever made.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:01 pm

Without knowing the reasons behind it, how can we judge if it was the correct decision. If the clearly obvious choice was for Djoko to play doubles, why didn't he play? Are the Serbian team too daft to spot the obvious choice? I would have thought that they are in a better position to weight up all the factors and reach a decision than we are.

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:09 pm

He cited fatigue, so its his choice not to compete on that basis. I just wonder how much he rues that decision now.

Sure the Serbian team, or likely just Djokovic on his own, are in a better position to weigh it all up - what fool wouldn't agree with that! But this is an open forum and as such we write conjecture and opinion - my opinion is he made a bad error of judgement, keep or sweep.
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Post by Danny_1982 Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:15 pm

Well, of course you can't rule out fatigue or an inury, but he did play today and won in straight sets against a top player so it couldn't have been that bad.

On paper the tie always looked like it would be decided by the doubles and they lost. We never know the full facts (in terms of niggles) behind any win or loss, yet we all comment on them based on the bits we do know. This is no different.

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Post by Cav Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:41 pm

Yes, very strange decision by Djokovic. Tiredness? Well, Nadal turned up for the doubles to make absolutely sure for Spain against the Ukraine after reaching the finals and winning back to back Masters and then 2 weeks of a Slam. The Czech Republic duo of Berdych and Stepanek proved exactly what they can do in a DC final as they proved it last year against Spain. Any lay person could see that the doubles was a crucial rubber in this year's final so I find it a very odd decision and it was surely a punt worth taking for Djokovic to play.

Congratulations to the Czech team.

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Post by laverfan Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:03 pm

The other team which won DC, of Berdych and Stepanek, played 2 singles each and a doubles. And Berdych was at WTF/Paris/Basel.

Did Djokovic get worn out by Nadal during the WTF final? censored

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Post by lydian Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:21 pm

Nah...
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Post by sirfredperry Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:10 am

All of the above posts point to something I've been banging on about for years - it's crazy to play the Davis Cup EVERY year. Every other year would be an improvement and once every four years would be even better.
 Djoko, and others before him, was faced with playing three five-set matches in successive days - and that after a hard season in which he played a WTF final just four days before his first DC match.
  Yes, the DC is a great tournament and generates huge excitement. But it's hardly going to become less exciting if it's played less often. I can see Djoko opting out in future, if these crazy schedules continue.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:46 am

Stepanek apparently annoyed some of the Serbs by saying they "left the Ferrari in the garage" for the doubles!

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Post by Guest Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:01 am

Laugh well it's not far from the truth.

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Post by hawkeye Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:36 am

sirfredperry wrote:All of the above posts point to something I've been banging on about for years - it's crazy to play the Davis Cup EVERY year. Every other year would be an improvement and once every four years would be even better.
 Djoko, and others before him, was faced with playing three five-set matches in successive days - and that after a hard season in which he played a WTF final just four days before his first DC match.
  Yes, the DC is a great tournament and generates huge excitement. But it's hardly going to become less exciting if it's played less often. I can see Djoko opting out in future, if these crazy schedules continue.
Djokovic didn't opt out. He was there lapping up the attention of an adoring home crowd. I would guess that he wouldn't have missed that for anything. Playing doubles is not as arduous as singles. Without playing the doubles all the effort in the singles was virtually certain to be for nothing (as far as the team was concerned). I would say many players who have played in a Davis Cup final would put the experience on par with a slam.

Watching the trophy ceremony the Serbian team looked devastated. Zimonjic was sobbing (he had said the result could have been very different if Djokovic had played the doubles) and Lajovic looked like perhaps he would have preferred to have been fed to the real lions rather than just a Czech one. During the 5th rubber the Serbian fans looked glum and silent many shaking their heads. In contrast Djokovic looked quite happy and satisfied maybe because he thought his singles wins in front of the adoring crowd were more important than a team victory. Djokovic still has a lot to learn...

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:43 am

You can always tell exactly how players are feeling simply by watching them on the television and jumping to unfounded conclusions.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:49 am

Elite sportsmen really should listen more to keyboard warriors on internet forums.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:23 am

Some shenanigans from Mr Berdych on Twitter last night. He tweeted:

"Arrived for official Davis Cup dinner and Djoko is not here, does he stay "in garage"?"

He then seems to have thought better of this little dig and deleted the message. He explained the deletion in this way:

"Why I deleted? I wanted to dance with Djoky tonight... I am sad he is not here!?!"

Apparently Novak wasn't at the dinner, which I think is pretty poor form unless there is a good reason.

Funny from Berdych though, that first message made me laugh.

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Post by slashermcguirk Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:30 am

Guys, I think the criticism is a bit over the top. Djokovic has never been a doubles player and even if he had played i am sure the match was 70 - 30 in Czech Republics favour. People seem to think top singles players just make the transition as easy as that. Djokovic and Nadal paired up together in a tournament and lost to unknowns in straight sets !

Doubles does not work like that. The team that Serbia chose beat the Bryan brothers. Djokovic did his part by winning both points he could, i think people suggesting Djokovic playing doubles would have meant they won are wrong. Stepanek and Berdych are a far more experienced unit than Djokovic and Zimonic. I am sure they have played together before and lost.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:47 am

Let's be honest, the game was up as soon as Tipsarevic got injured.

Could Novak have improved the doubles pairing? Possibly. But it's not as if they were bringing in one of the Bryan brothers! Novak has no track record of being a great doubles player.

Is it worth improving your doubles pairing's chances from say 30/70 to 40/60 if the cost of that improvement is to send your best singles player in pooped? Djokovic is worse at doubles than both Stepanek and Berdych, so I can't imagine that it would have tilted the balance of the match.

It's a balancing act but my feeling is always that it is a mistake to weaken a strength to strengthen a weakness.

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Post by slashermcguirk Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:58 am

I agree HM but I don't necessarily agree that Djokovic would have strengthened their doubles team. He rarely if ever plays doubles, he has won 1 ATP doubles title at Queens but other than that he doesnt have any pedigree.

Had he played, i would have put it 70 - 30 in Czechs favour. At least Djokovic plays all these davis cup matches unlike the likes of Federer and Murray. He won both his singles and that after playing nearly non stop over the past couple of months travelling through how many countries and time zones.

Criticism is harsh to say the very least. He pretty much got them their previous davis cup title and got them to the final this year!

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Post by laverfan Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:42 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:At least Djokovic plays all these davis cup matches unlike the likes of Federer and Murray.
That is not a fair criticism, Slasher. Do you recall Djokovic v Del Potro? Djokovic may be getting unnecessary stick, but dragging other players to justify it is even worse.

slashermcguirk wrote:He won both his singles and that after playing nearly non stop over the past couple of months travelling through how many countries and time zones.
Many other players have done that as well. Should I quote examples?

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Post by Guest Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:24 pm

Rather than Serbian Hand, they should have used the Serbian Black Hands (check your history books).

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:29 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Rather than Serbian Hand, they should have used the Serbian Black Hands (check your history books).
Were there Serbian One-handed Black Hands and Serbian Double-handed Black Hands?

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Post by laverfan Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Rather than Serbian Hand, they should have used the Serbian Black Hands (check your history books).
Were there Serbian One-handed Black Hands and Serbian Double-handed Black Hands?
Dusan Lajovic is part of the Serbian one-handed Black Hands. Laugh 

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Post by hawkeye Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:51 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:Stepanek apparently annoyed some of the Serbs by saying they "left the Ferrari in the garage" for the doubles!
The "joke" was taken a little further. Apparently Djokovic didn't attend the official dinner after the final (I wonder why?) and Berdych tweeted this

Arrived for official @DavisCup dinner and Djoko is not here, does he stay in "garage"??

But then deleted it. He tweeted this in explanation

Why I deleted?I wanted to dance with Djoky tonight...I am #sad he is not here!?!

https://twitter.com/tomasberdych

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Post by Guest Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:56 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Rather than Serbian Hand, they should have used the Serbian Black Hands (check your history books).
Were there Serbian One-handed Black Hands and Serbian Double-handed Black Hands?
It is said their service was solid and difficult to break, while their shots down the lines were deadly with the opposition rolling over fairly easily.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:24 pm

HE - I posted pretty much exactly the same thing earlier!

Unless there was a very good reason, I'm not impressed at the Djokovic no-show at the dinner.

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Post by Danny_1982 Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:41 pm

Bit cheeky of Berdy that. Quite amusing though. I've always got the impression he's not the most popular of guys on the tour.

Interesting that the victors are questioning why he didn't play in the doubles too.

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Post by hawkeye Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:14 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:HE - I posted pretty much exactly the same thing earlier!

Unless there was a very good reason, I'm not impressed at the Djokovic no-show at the dinner.
Whops! Sorry so you did. I'm surprised too. Both at Djokovic's no show in the doubles and also at him sneaking away and not attending the dinner. It will have been noticed I'm sure... and not just by "keyboard warriors" (Ha ha!) and Berdych... and Stepanek.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:03 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:Bit cheeky of Berdy that. Quite amusing though. I've always got the impression he's not the most popular of guys on the tour.

Interesting that the victors are questioning why he didn't play in the doubles too.
I thought that would be right up your street, Danny. A bit of 'needle'!

It's funny with Berdych, as I get the impression he's not the most popular too. I don't think Andy likes him much.

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Post by lydian Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:40 pm

Stepanek, who is Djokovic's friend and sometime practice partner, stood by his "Ferrari" statement today.

"I said it because I meant he was the best player in the world and to not play him [in doubles], it surprised me," Stepanek said.
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Post by socal1976 Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:50 am

Novak should have played doubles if he was going to play in this tie at all. Really they would have had a better chance even if he is not used to playing doubles he would have been better than any one else they could come up. Frankly, he is too unselfish and should not play Davis Cup as well as I think during the meat of the grandslam season he wears himself out. He already won them the Davis cup.

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Post by Guest Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:31 pm

I don't get this at all. Because Novak didn't try and single handedly win a team competition and try to crock himself in the process he's being slagged off and blamed for throwing lajovic to the lions ? Lajovic is a big man. If he answered the call to play then he was prepared to play. Djoko didn't attend for whatever reason. Maybe it was that his countries other good players let him down fact is if the Serbs chosen pair could beat the Bryan's then they were good enough

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Post by lydian Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:06 pm

As said, Zim/Bodo win over Bryan Bros was of Darcis/Rosol proportions. Bodo is otherwise ranked outside 200 in doubles.

Berdych & Stepanek both expressed amazement at Djokovic not playing the doubles...perhaps they both know a thing or two about whether Djokovic would have made the difference in doubles? Especially Stepanek, the reigning US Open Doubles Champion. I take their view over anyone on here.
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Post by JuliusHMarx Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:01 am

Berdych didn't seem that amazed - he seemed to at least understand the reasoning.

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Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic Empty Re: Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic

Post by CAS Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:25 am

if Novak played the doubles, win or lose if he had a dodgy start to 2014 people will point out straight away "after playing Paris and London back to back why did he play 3 matches for Serbia, he wore himself out" etc etc, can't win. The main issue is they lost Tipsarevic and Troicki, had they not they probably would have won it, Janko has won 5 of his 8 matches with Berdych and 3 out of 4 with Stepanek.

Thought it was a stunning effort for Novak to come out and play 2 best of 5 matches the same week he became WTF champ


Last edited by CAS on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic Empty Re: Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic

Post by Guest Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:29 am

Soo were slagging him off because he was the only player on the team good enough and didn't win it himself. Zimonjic is a former number 1 he's not Lucas rosol. End if the matter is that novaks main priority is himself he's a singles player. He played 2 singled rubbers and win them both handily he should be congratulated for putting up a fight for his country not slagged off because god fing forbid he needed rest for the singles

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Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic Empty Re: Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic

Post by naxroy Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:28 am

but how many double matches has nole ever played anyway?

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Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic Empty Re: Serbia Hand The Davis Cup To Czech Republic

Post by hawkeye Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:26 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Berdych didn't seem that amazed - he seemed to at least understand the reasoning.
I think both Berdych and Stepanek made it quite clear that they thought they benefited from Djokovic's decision to rest up on the bench. Well Duh...

The point is there was absolutely no point resting up for his singles matches because Bozolgac had as much chance against the crack Czech doubles team as Lajovic had against Steponac. All his spightly running about on the singles court was just a waste of energy without a doubles win. He may as well have stayed at home on the sofa for that as well.

Ha ha! Just noticed that ESPN stole my ace headline http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/258703.html

Not sure where to put this but this is (cough) interesting. Djokovic has now joined Nadal in South America to play an exhibition taking with him as a companion his own favorite drug banned player Victor Troiki... What does it mean?

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