Scotland v Australia, 23 November

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Australia
 
23 November 2013, KO: 18:00
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
 
Referee: Jaco Peyper (RSA)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FRA)
AR2: Francisco Pastrana (ARG)
TMO: Geoff Warren (ENG)
 
LIVE on BBC
 
A. Teams:
 
1. Jessies
 
15 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 40 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Duncan Taylor (Saracens) 5 caps
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 81 caps, 12 tries, 60 points

10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 9 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 23 caps, 3 tries, 23 conversions, 49 penalties, 208 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 70 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 22 caps
4 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier) 49 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 25 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) 59 caps, 4 tries, 20 points CAPTAIN
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps
 
16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 29 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 57 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
19 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Kieran Low (London Irish) uncapped
21 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 63 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 23 caps, 3 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals 18 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 36 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
  
2. Wallabies

15 Israel Folau
14 Joe Tomane
13 Christian Leali'ifano
12 Mike Harris
11 Chris Feauai-Sautia
10 Quade Cooper
9 Will Genia
 
8 Ben Mowen (capt)
7 Michael Hooper
6 Scott Fardy
5 James Horwill
4 Rob Simmons
3 Sekope Kepu
2 Stephen Moore
1 James Slipper
 
16 Saia Fainga'a
17 Ben Alexander
18 Paddy Ryan
19 Sitaleki Timani
20 Ben McCalman
21 Nic White
22 Nick Phipps
23 Bernard Foley
 
B. Recent Form - last seven
 
1. Scotland
 
Scotland - South Africa 0-28
Scotland - Italy 30-29
South Africa - Scotland 30-17
Samoa - Scotland 27-17
France - Scotland 23-16
Scotland - Wales 18-28
Scotland - Ireland 12-8
 
2. Australia
 
15-32 Ireland - Australia
20-13 England - Australia
41-33 New Zealand - Australia
17-54 Argentina - Australia
28-8 South Africa - Australia
14-13 Australia - Argentina
12-38 Australia - South Africa
 
C. Recent Form - head to head
 
5 June 2012, Hunter Stadium, Newcastle
Scotland Tour of Australasia
Australia 6 – 9 Scotland
 
21 November 2009, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2009 Autumn International
Scotland 9 – 8 Australia
 
25 November 2006, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2006 Autumn International
Scotland 15 – 44 Australia
 
20 November 2004, Hampden Park, Glasgow
2004 Autumn International
Scotland 17 – 31 Australia
 
6 November 2004, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2004 Autumn International  
Scotland 14 – 31 Australia

Just comparing this current crop to our 2009 vintage who beat the Wallabies:

R Lamont; S Lamont, Grove, Morrison (De Luca, 40), Danielli (Paterson, 63); Godman, Cusiter (R Lawson, 21); Jacobsen, Ford (Hall, 77), Low (Traynor, 57), Hines, Kellock, Strokosch (White, 48), Barclay, Beattie (Vernon, 63).

Surely to feck we're better off these days? In the backline, certainly?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Here’s my team for Sat,

Grant
McArthur
Murray
Swinson
Hamilton (someone needs to call the lineouts and apparently only Hamilton and Kellock are capable, Gray Jnr can apparently as well, but would be looking at him as a sub)
Brown (c)
Barclay
Beattie
Laidlaw (to be replaced by Cusiter sharpish if his passing continues in the same form from last week)
Weir  - Jackson had some crazy moments last week and whilst his cross field kicks were all well and good, his passing and general handling over the two games so far haven’t been great.  Not sure if Weir is going to make a difference, but worth giving him a shot.  Heathcote isn’t playing enough to justify starting this match in my opinion
Lamont – Made some ‘interesting’ decisions last week, but is still a reasonably safe pair of hands and will try his hardest.  Given the lack of other options just now he has to play.
Taylor – Not a great starting debut, with a number of balls dropped, but deserves to have another shot as no one really played well last week and again we have limited options here with Matt Scott -12 out.
NDL – Would have him starting as I think he’s done pretty well over the two games, and his experience would be useful to help Taylor, but would have Bennett replacing him in the 2nd half.
Seymour – Showed against Japan he can score, didn’t really get much of a chance against RSA.
Maitland – Would prefer him on the wing as I think he’s wasted at FB, but I don’t think Tonks is ready to come in at 15 as he’s not played for Edinburgh much this season due to injury and not sure Cuthbert is an International quality FB.

Dickenson, Ford, Welsh/Low (whoever is on TH duty this week in the weird rotation system that’s going on with them), J Gray, Fusaro, Cusiter, Heathcote,….I don’t want to put him in, but Evans I guess takes the last spot.

Not totally sure on the Lock combo, I would like to have seen Swinson & Gray Snr getting a run together, but if neither of them are capable of calling the lineout then that could be a recipe for disaster.

Also I really didn't want Evans in there, but he can in theory cover a number of positions so probably useful to have.

Spoons, think you've solved your own dilemma!

Yeah, thanks for pointing out my stupidity. Can't believe I missed that, well win win then.

Well it seems we have a pack.... backs TBC.

I don't know where people are playing so I'll copy the pattern from twitter.

Grant Ford Low
Swinson Hamilton
Beattie Brown
Denton

Ford, you are one lucky boy. Ali Dickinson, you are one unlucky boy.

Presumably Brown at 7? Anyone think we might get stomped since we have no real turnover specialist 7 in that team?

Grant-Ford-Low
Swinson-Hamilton
Beattie-Denton-Brown (c)

and they can't make up their minds in the backs

It's a shocking selection at first glance imo

Team's up:
 
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. Hamilton
6. Denton
7. Brown
8. Beattie
 
Backs still TBC but will be from:

Maitland
Squashed Goblin
Seymour
Bennett
De Luca
Taylor
Schlong
Rhuberb
Weir
Cus
Laidlaw
 
Subs:
16 Dickinson
17 MacArthur
18 Murray
19 Gilchrist
20 Kieran Low
21 TBC
22 TBC
23 TBC

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well it seems we have a pack.... backs TBC.

I don't know where people are playing so I'll copy the pattern from twitter.

Grant Ford Low
Swinson Hamilton
Beattie Brown
Denton

Ford, you are one lucky boy. Ali Dickinson, you are one unlucky boy.

Immediate thoughts:
1. Ford - why?
2. Unbalanced backrow
3. Players playing out of position again

I'm getting a bit fed up of this schit

No idea why MacArthur isn't getting a start. What he lacks in power he makes up for in his dynamism (dunno if I just invented that word) he should be starting.

Goodness knows what Is going on in the backrow. I reckon we'll struggle to retain the ball with that backrow.

So, Ross Ford is confirmed as bullet proof.

Really disappointing.

Also, why haven't they rewarded Jonny Gray for a good debut from the bench? Gilchrist has been deeply unimpressive so far for Scotland.

In addition, I feel Dickinson is being pretty hard done by. I never thought I would see the day when I would say that he was not just adequate but indeed played very well in 2 international matches in a row.

This has got to be last chance saloon for Ford - I've generally defended him on here but he surely had to be dropped.

Also, very unbalanced backrow.

IS Low the 22 year old LI guy who hasn't played much this year? Why him over Fusaro??

Low is the young guy I think, Cowan is the LI dude. Not starting Fusaro or Barclay is a critical error IMO.

I'd understand Cowan being picked as he's been on great form for LI by the sound of things - not Low though.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd understand Cowan being picked as he's been on great form for LI by the sound of things - not Low though.

smacks of a tie in cap to me.

Shocking -how can a player who can not do the basics of his position be picked again and again.

The back row makes no sense at all - totally unbalanced and dropping the only player to play well in the last game (Barclay) to play Brown out of position again

We tried this in the 6 nations and it was a disaster - Only brown doing the ruck work and Denton and Beattie mincing it up looking for glory runs

Sorry this is starting to turn into a Hadden and Robinson fiasco - playing players out of position and not in form

VERY DEPREESED with the rubbish

Disappointing team so far.
Ford  

The backrow  there's a real risk that we might get blown off the park, just like at Twickenham. Funny, that the last time we beat Australia, we selected a backrow with 2 specialist opensides. Yet we've gone for 2 number 8's & a blindside?
Hooper to have a field day.

With that backline longlist, I honestly think that we're looking at:
 
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Schlong
12. Taylor
13. Butterfingers
14. Seymour
15. Maitland
 
21. Cus
22. Rhubarb
23. Messiah
 
I'm not exactly achieving wood with that.

Riskysports wrote:Shocking -how can a player who can not do the basics of his position be picked again and again.

The back row makes no sense at all - totally unbalanced and dropping the only player to play well in the last game (Barclay) to play Brown out of position again

We tried this in the 6 nations and it was a disaster - Only brown doing the ruck work and Denton and Beattie mincing it up looking for glory runs

Sorry this is starting to turn into a Hadden and Robinson fiasco - playing players out of position and not in form

VERY DEPREESED with the rubbish

I don't think it is as bad as that. In SJ's defence Brown has been picked at 7 for Scotland before and played very well. The turnover stats don't lie. 7 is not his best position but he can certainly play well there. Guys like Grant and Swinson will be able to help him at the breakdown.

Denton has been great but I worry for him in the 6 role. It's not very glamerous and I'm not sure he has the mentallity to take to the 6 role and not get sucked into the backline looking for a high profile carry.

The most baffling decion as has been mentioned already is Ford at 2. I have already said he wasn't entirely responsible for the lineout debacle on Sunday but he didn't help matters with a few overthrows and a squint one. MacArthur really should have been starting this one.

This has send me to twitter rage -

Riskysports wrote:Shocking -how can a player who can not do the basics of his position be picked again and again.

The back row makes no sense at all - totally unbalanced and dropping the only player to play well in the last game (Barclay) to play Brown out of position again

We tried this in the 6 nations and it was a disaster - Only brown doing the ruck work and Denton and Beattie mincing it up looking for glory runs

Sorry this is starting to turn into a Hadden and Robinson fiasco - playing players out of position and not in form

VERY DEPREESED with the rubbish

Thanks for thinking what I was thinking and putting it up in advance Risky.

The squad hit the gym today - take an exclusive look behind-the-scenes...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgBxpIh3N08&feature=c4-overview&list=UUycrxh2r7VKKxP-rfa9-cfw 

my response 

Maybe lay off the gym and work on handling would be wise...

Yet again another lot of strange decisions in the forward pack. Obviously there has been decisions made a few weeks ago on who would play what game etc but in a way I feel it is cheapening the jersey a bit and also not sending out a good message to the fans who want to see the best team out there with a chance of winning.

Ross Ford is very lucky to even make the 23 let alone start.
Dickinson is unlucky as he went very well against South Africa and also against Japan when he came on. As i have said before Dickinson is actually a very good player when he is played in his correct position!

2nd Row I think is a good powerful pairing who can disrupt Australia.

The back row is a joke! 2 players out of position and one who had a poor game against South Africa. One of the critical areas of the games v australia will be the back row and Scotland have just given Australia an advantage there. Hooper will have a field day against that back row. Should have been Brown, Barclay/fusaro with Beattie at 8.

Got the subs wrong as well. Gilchrist doesn't deserve a bench spot, should have been one of the Gray brothers. Also Blair Cowan should have been ahead of Kieran Low. Low is really a lock/blindside flank where as Cowan can cover 6,7 and 8. He is also in form at LI and from the bench would make a big impact. Been keeping an eye on him for 2/3 seasons and his try scoring record is very impressive.

The back division I would like to see would be
9 Cusiter who has a far sharper service and also has a very good snipe and break. Also think his box kicking is a lot better than Laidlaws.
10 Weir
11 Lamont
12 Taylor
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Maitland

George Carlin wrote:With that backline longlist, I honestly think that we're looking at:
 
13. Butterfingers
 

NDL still taking flak. I guess he isn't a popular choice but in the absence of Scott, it's hard to argue against him and Seymore being our best performing backs.

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 70 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 22 caps
4 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier) 49 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 25 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) 59 caps, 4 tries, 20 points CAPTAIN
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps

Yes that is the pack for Saturday. 
WTF, WTF, WTF.   
Why is Ford still there? Why is Kellybrows-6 playing at 7? Why is J Beattie at 6?
It has now gone beyond a joke, keeping Ford in the starting line up is positively cruel to him. He has looked positively miserable on the field and needs to be allowed time and space to reconstruct his game. he wont be any different on Saturday, he'll keep repeating the same mistakes. He needs time with remedial coaching unti the remedy is found.
Did Rab C open an early Chrimbo card this morning which contained the message
Season's Greetings and here's a really good back row. Love AR?

Is Richie Gray injured or just dropped? If it is that he is dropped, then its not before time.

Has Beattie ever played 6 before?

Riskysports wrote:Has Beattie ever played 6 before?

Did he not shift to 6 occasionally for Montpellier to play Gorgodze @ 8?

Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.

Quite Frankly I am considering not even watching this game - as I am fed up coming into work and being embarrassed by our team

(I will watch it, as will have calmed down by then)

reallybored wrote:Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.

Unfortunately our dour and quick judgement are based on 10 years of these dour and quick judgement being right -

reallybored wrote:Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.

Yeah I don't think it's too bad either. Aside from Ford and the bizarre backrow, I'm not panicked. When I see our options at 12, then I'll start panicking.

Put it another way if we see 12. Lamont 13. Evans then I'll be dour.

Just read SJ's comments on the selection - he gives absolutely no explanation to the key selections - Ford and Low being the main ones as well as Beattie at 6 and Brown at 7

Riskysports wrote:Has Beattie ever played 6 before?

I am sure he played there a couple of times with Glasgow. It was during his "I don't like Rugby" phases, so I can't recall how it went.

Hooper is going to think all his Christmases and birthdays have come at once

reallybored wrote:Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.

Why? Are we not allowed to have our opinions? Is that not the purpose of a forum? Odd, singularly odd

reallybored wrote:Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

[b]I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.[/b]

You must not have been watching Scotland play for that long then!!

Can someone also tell me how people keep saying Ford is good in the loose

I have not seem him make a run that does not go one yard before being tackled and flopping down. He never makes line breaks and never gets more than a yard over the gain line

Look in comparison to how Hartley plays and he is a danger with ball in hand

Really do not understand how people keep saying he is a powerful runner

Riskysports wrote:Can someone also tell me how people keep saying Ford is good in the loose

I have not seem him make a run that does not go one yard before being tackled and flopping down. He never makes line breaks and never gets more than a yard over the gain line

Look in comparison to how Hartley plays and he is a danger with ball in hand

Really do not understand how people keep saying he is a powerful runner

Ford does take the ball a lot in close contact areas but then does nothing with it. He barely makes any yards when carrying and often gets himself isolated from his team mates. The hooker that makes the most yards for Scotland in recent games is actually Scott Lawson.

If you compare Fords open play to someone like adrian Strauss then Ford is miles behind.

God I need a drink...

Riskysports wrote:

reallybored wrote:Surprised by the pack, would have expected a quicker more mobile 8 for the Australia match.

1 Grant (fair enough, best LH and has a point to prove against Oz)
2 Ford (you lucky lucky boy, new nickname: the Cat)
3 Low (was my stand-out forward against Boks, keep it up)
4 Swinson (obviously he's back in)
5 Hamilton (surprised but need someone to call line and decent against Boks)
6 Beattie (pleased he's back but surprised it's not at 8)
7 Brown (pleased again but would prefer Barclay at 7 and Brows at 6)
8 Denton (always willing but yet to be really effective carrying)

16 MacArthur (unlucky not to be starting imo)
17 Dickinson (delighted to see him doing so well, improves depth)
18 Murray (expected him to start but Low deserves his spot)
19 Gilchrist (rotation or injury? Not sure, would have liked a Gray though)
20 Low (interesting, no idea what he's like. Harley should feel miffed)

Not a bad pack, looks like we're going to try and batter them up front.  Fingers crossed they pick Weir and Bennett to start in the backs and we can make it 3 in a row against the criminal element.

Wrong time of the month ladies? Obviously it's not our strongest XV but Johnson did say he was going to rotate the squad, granted Ford deserves to be dropped but other than that it's not a terrible selection.

Oh Brown again at open-side, what a travesty!! Only was the best performing 7 during last 6 nations.....perhaps Johnson wants a bit more ball carrying in back-row hence Beattie & Denton because we've really struggled for front foot ball.  And Barclay didn't force a turnover last weekend and Fusaro isn't good enough yet, so Brown's selection isn't that much of a surprise.

I have a real problem with a fair chunk of Scottish supporters, far too dour and quick to cast judgement on players or selections.

Unfortunately our dour and quick judgement are based on 10 years of these dour and quick judgement being right -

+1

OK last time we played Aus we had Barclay at 8 and actually it worked. I'll eat my words if we win this match but I don't think we will.
After SA we needed a strong compelling selection and this is not it. It's ... risky. When there is no need to be risky.

Can't be bothered checking who but someone just mentioned that playing Ford in this match is harsh to Ford. I completely agree, each successive match will just make it harder for him to come back. Unless of course some rocket has been put up his erse and he will play well come Saturday ...

Majestic83 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Can someone also tell me how people keep saying Ford is good in the loose

I have not seem him make a run that does not go one yard before being tackled and flopping down. He never makes line breaks and never gets more than a yard over the gain line

Look in comparison to how Hartley plays and he is a danger with ball in hand

Really do not understand how people keep saying he is a powerful runner

Ford does take the ball a lot in close contact areas but then does nothing with it. He barely makes any yards when carrying and often gets himself isolated from his team mates. The hooker that makes the most yards for Scotland in recent games is actually Scott Lawson.

If you compare Fords open play to someone like adrian Strauss then Ford is miles behind.

Exactly - so in summary our hooker

Can not hook
Can not throw
Can not make line breaks
Can not carry 
Can not motivate a team (Remember his stint as Captain -shudder)

What the hell is he picked for?

Riskysports wrote:Can someone also tell me how people keep saying Ford is good in the loose

I have not seem him make a run that does not go one yard before being tackled and flopping down. He never makes line breaks and never gets more than a yard over the gain line

Look in comparison to how Hartley plays and he is a danger with ball in hand

Really do not understand how people keep saying he is a powerful runner

Before I post this up, on the record MacArthur should be starting.

Ford doesn't look like he is up to much unless you watch him and his workrate.

He is a bit like Robshaw in this regard, you won't often see him cut loose in open play or trample over opposition players but he hoovers up a lot of the ugly ball, rarely gets turned over and unlike Kellock hits the rucks with conviction and power. He is really underestimated at the breakdown too. He has made 2 turnovers in the last 2 games and made 22 tackles missing none.

Shame he throws the ball into the lineout like a 10 thumbed man wearing mittens.

Surprised about Low, maybe he'll turn out to be a great find but of the two LI players Cowan is the one who should be featuring now from what I've seen of him on TV.

I've got the logic now - when we last beat Australia, we did so with 2 7s and a 6, this time we're going to see if we can do it with 2 8s and a 6 - novel

Riskysports wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Can someone also tell me how people keep saying Ford is good in the loose

I have not seem him make a run that does not go one yard before being tackled and flopping down. He never makes line breaks and never gets more than a yard over the gain line

Look in comparison to how Hartley plays and he is a danger with ball in hand

Really do not understand how people keep saying he is a powerful runner

Ford does take the ball a lot in close contact areas but then does nothing with it. He barely makes any yards when carrying and often gets himself isolated from his team mates. The hooker that makes the most yards for Scotland in recent games is actually Scott Lawson.

If you compare Fords open play to someone like adrian Strauss then Ford is miles behind.

Exactly - so in summary our hooker

Can not hook
Can not throw
Can not make line breaks
Can not carry 
Can not motivate a team (Remember his stint as Captain -shudder)

What the hell is he picked for?

In his defence he's a pretty effective tackler (no pun intented)....not saying this is a criteria for selecting him, but during the spell when we were owned by SA*, I think he was joint top tackler.

*This is specifically regarding the initial owning, I appreciate for a large portion of the match we were in SA's back pocket so thought I would clarify as it didn't really narrow it down.

Edit:
Blast, work got in the way and Radge beat me to it. Essentially I agree and reiterate what Radge is saying

Surprised by the pack, particularly the decision not to go with a specialist openside against Hooper. Also surprised to see Low starting ahead of Murray, and I honestly thought Ford would benched for MacArthur. Probably the oddest selection of SJ's reign, and it has a very Andy Robinson look to it (although to be fair there are only 5 forwards on the bench).

Still, pleased that Swinson is back. A Swinson/Hamilton second row won't be easily subdued, and Beattie will have a point to prove, regardless of where he starts in the back row.

Bit off topic here but has Cross been hard done by? Yes he's not featured massively for Edinburgh, but let's face it that isn't something that stops you getting picked for Scotland according to SJ.

He got 8 minutes against Japan and nothing against SA, and has now been dropped. Hardly been able to show he is still up for it.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Surprised by the pack, particularly the decision not to go with a specialist openside against Hooper. Also surprised to see Low starting ahead of Murray, and I honestly thought Ford would benched for MacArthur. Probably the oddest selection of SJ's reign, and it has a very Andy Robinson look to it (although to be fair there are only 5 forwards on the bench).

Still, pleased that Swinson is back. A Swinson/Hamilton second row won't be easily subdued, and Beattie will have a point to prove, regardless of where he starts in the back row.

But therein lies the problem. I am very concerned he will be trying to prove a point, and not focus on what a 6 should be doing - which is equally as important but not so glory

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit off topic here but has Cross been hard done by? Yes he's not featured massively for Edinburgh, but let's face it that isn't something that stops you getting picked for Scotland according to SJ.

He got 8 minutes against Japan and nothing against SA, and has now been dropped.  Hardly been able to show he is still up for it.

I don't think he's been hard done by, given the lack of game time he's had for Embra. Jon Welsh, on the other hand...

Fusaro, Barclay, MacArthur, Harley and Jonny Gray are also very hard done by.

I get that Johnson is trying to expand the player pool, but this selection is just silly. Two 8s and a 6 in the backrow, covered by another 6 on the bench. Weird.

With regards to the team for Saturday:

No real issues with the Front row - Yes Ford is very lucky, but he’s been very lucky for quite a while now, and the coaches keep saying the dodgy lineouts aren’t all down to him.  Sure he doesn’t appear to be able to hook the ball, isn’t exactly dynamic with ball in hand and has spent the last year (at least) having a mare with lineouts, but he’s always involved so its hard to be disappointed by that anymore, I think there comes a time where we just have to accept he’s going to play regardless.

2nd row – I picked them in my team so happy enough with that.  With that said would have liked to have a Gray on the bench.

Back row – don’t really understand the thinking in playing two players out of position.  That said Beattie might be alright at 6 and we know Brows can do a job at 7, so might not be that bad.  Still would have liked to see  Brows – 6 at…well 6 at some point and maybe try playing a 7 at 7, but enough of that crazy talk.

Looking forward to seeing who we pick in the backs, as long as its not a centre pairing of Schlong and Goblin then anything else is a bonus as far as I’m concerned.