Froch v Groves Hype, Poll, More hype, General Hype!!!!!

First topic message reminder :

I make no bones about looking forward to Froch fights. I am a Froch lover, despite his ever expanding ego.

So this weekend, how does it go?!

Me, I am saying Froch by KO inside 8

Tends to suggest then that Froch ain't anything special (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you call me great...I'm sensitive to that sort of thing) if he can't implement such sound advice as "keep your composure"....or the McCracken simply doesn't get the message across effectively.

I will offer Howard Eastman as an example of how McCracken could fail to get the best out of someone as supremely gifted as Howard yet someone as workmanlike as Froch rises to the top. Tends to suggest it's easy when you put in a bit of effort which then begs the question, if Froch is such a hard worker, why make life harder by failing to listen to sound advice?

Just not convinced McCracken is anything special...nice bloke and what have you but nothing special.

I think McCracken is sound, and is good with Froch. Nobody can really say there is more to Froch than his performances have suggested. If anything, Froch has won more fights than his talent might warrant. We agree to disagree. We still cool though.

Seanusarrilius wrote:I think McCracken is sound, and is good with Froch. Nobody can really say there is more to Froch than his performances have suggested. If anything, Froch has won more fights than his talent might warrant. We agree to disagree. We still cool though.

Of course  

606 lifers. Got to keep things civil on the wing.

McCracken sucks

I dont rate the guy

Steffan wrote:McCracken sucks

I dont rate the guy

Watch it or I'll be in your cell with a shiv!

Kidding. I could never hurt you

Seanusarrilius wrote:
Watch it or I'll be in your cell with a shiv!

Kidding. I could never hurt you

Thats good to know and the feeling is mutual

Even though we will be the best of enemies come fight night

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Steffan wrote:McCracken sucks

I dont rate the guy

Watch it or I'll be in your cell with a shiv!

Kidding. I could never hurt you

I could, quite happily...but I'm with you on the McCracken thing Steffan, so you get a pass, but don't upset Sean again!

DAVE667 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Steffan wrote:McCracken sucks

I dont rate the guy

Watch it or I'll be in your cell with a shiv!

Kidding. I could never hurt you

I could, quite happily...but I'm with you on the McCracken thing Steffan, so you get a pass, but don't upset Sean again!

that's right  

DAVE667 wrote:Tends to suggest then that Froch ain't anything special (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you call me great...I'm sensitive to that sort of thing) if he can't implement such sound advice as "keep your composure"....or the McCracken simply doesn't get the message across effectively.

I will offer Howard Eastman as an example of how McCracken could fail to get the best out of someone as supremely gifted as Howard yet someone as workmanlike as Froch rises to the top. Tends to suggest it's easy when you put in a bit of effort which then begs the question, if Froch is such a hard worker, why make life harder by failing to listen to sound advice?

Just not convinced McCracken is anything special...nice bloke and what have you but nothing special.

Is it really that much of a knock that neither he nor Kessler were especially composed during a particularly brutal fight. I mean pretend it isn't Froch for a second...

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Tends to suggest then that Froch ain't anything special (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you call me great...I'm sensitive to that sort of thing) if he can't implement such sound advice as "keep your composure"....or the McCracken simply doesn't get the message across effectively.

I will offer Howard Eastman as an example of how McCracken could fail to get the best out of someone as supremely gifted as Howard yet someone as workmanlike as Froch rises to the top. Tends to suggest it's easy when you put in a bit of effort which then begs the question, if Froch is such a hard worker, why make life harder by failing to listen to sound advice?

Just not convinced McCracken is anything special...nice bloke and what have you but nothing special.

Is it really that much of a knock that neither he nor Kessler were especially composed during a particularly brutal fight. I mean pretend it isn't Froch for a second...

Putting aside my indifference towards McCracken a some kind of Boxing Svengali and fighting bravely the ever increasing annoyance Froch is causing me, I'd suggest that it's things like the ability to remain cool under pressure that separates the good from the great.

Ever seen Roger and Floyd looking bemused (forget Roger's normal everyday face).

Not saying McCracken isn't good, he's made a world champion out of Froch and his work with the Amateur boxers has been admirable to say the least but I really can't get carried away with the idea that he's Angelo Dundee or Eddie Futch. Bit like saying Billy Graham was a great trainer because of the sucess of Ricky Hatton.

I don't think McCracken's career is enough for him to be any ATG. He's done great things with Froch and that's worthy of respect, but he's no contender for the Eddie Futch award. Similarly, Froch's career is something to be extremely proud of, but nobody's saying he should win fighter of the year or that he's on the level of Mayweather.

But the idea that it's because he lacked composure during an intense fight he barely lost is wide of the mark.

Foreman was totally uncomposed against Ali. Infact Foreman wasn't composed against anyone until the late 80's. Pacquiao wasn't composed when he sensed he had Marquez hurt and got KO'd. Holyfield often lost all composure when someone dared hit him. Ali and Frazier fought on heart alone at the cost of punishment many times. All these guys are great. Seems quite random that as soon as it's a criticism of Froch that composure suddenly becomes the difference between the good and the great.

Think that in the third fight with Frazier, Ali showed remarkable composure after Joe came back so strongly in the middle of the fight. For Ali to systematically beat up Frazier, targetting that badly swollen eye whilst facing a man who constantly marched forward showed his ability to keep cool and stick to his boxing.
 
Having watched Froch/Kessler, you can see Froch losing his composure as he goes for all out power and volume rather than picking his shots and it's Kessler who gets off the cleaner work. If Kessler could manage it, why not Froch?

Just to refute any allegations of Anti- Froch bias, Nigel Benn is one of my all-time favs but the number or times he lost his head mid-fight are just too many to count

Maybe because it's one of his greater strengths, maybe because it was on his turf, who knows? Point being it's a very specific point to decide greatness is based upon. Also, Froch must be pretty good at fighting if a totally uncomposed version of him managed to push Kessler to a razor wire decision like that.

Kessler often looked uncomposed during the rematch.

Really starting to look forward to this one now! Only a few days to go...I had grown to like Froch in recent years but feel he has quickly undone all his hard work in the build up to this. Some of the stuff he has said to & about Groves have been nonsense and his whining about respect has stuck in my throat a little...for one thing I don't think George has actually been disrespectful about his legacy but merely pointed out flaws he feels his opponent has & secondly given the way Froch went about trying to get Calzaghe into the ring it's been a case of pot, kettle black.

Anyway just noticed this on the Skysports website: Good read for anyone interested and again I think Groves comes across as quite an intelligent student of the game, talks a fair bit of sense.

http://www1.skysports.com/frochgroves/story/29803/9031693

Also just noticed that Anthony Joshua is now off this bill with a bicep injury! Still...Crolla, Martin Murray, Quigg, Yafai, Cardle, McDonnell and Stephen Smith all appear. Shouldn't be a bad nights bill...though the contests aren't too much to shout about.

I thought you felt the undercard was OK Ozzy? Well worth £15.

Oh here you come out of the woodwork stating tosh once again..think you will find that what I have said numerous times is that Froch v Groves is not a PPV fight but the fact is that in this day and age we have to accept that this is going to be the case when two domestic rivals, where at least one is Top 2 in the World in his division, step in the ring with one another...

If people aren't happy to pay £15 quid then they don't bother paying; of course it would be better if the fight wasn't on PPV but it is so people just have get on with it and either not purchase it or hope that the promoters at least go some way to giving the viewer value for money..be that with 2/3 very good 50/50 match ups on the whole card (my ideal choice) or plenty of names on the card ...in this case it is the latter...

But McDonnell, Crolla, Martin Murray, Quigg, Yafai, Smith, Fielding & Campbell certainly means we at least get to see some of Britains youngest and brightest in the ring all on the same night.

owen10ozzy wrote:Also just noticed that Anthony Joshua is now off this bill with a bicep injury! Still...Crolla, Martin Murray, Quigg, Yafai, Cardle, McDonnell and Stephen Smith all appear. Shouldn't be a bad nights bill...though the contests aren't too much to shout about.

Bit of a stinger that, was more interesting in AJ than any other fighter bar the top bill.

Can see Froch chasing a back peddling Groves round the ring for 5-6 rounds whilst shouting 'trenches, come to the trenches with me boy' (possibly whilst holding a pack of sweets). Before he finally catches up and stops him.

Froch then mentions the word trenches 373287328 and warrior 47474747 times in the post fight interview.

Slow, Lumbering Froch is toast!!!!

Calls Groves "smelly breath" and with a nose like that it must be magnified by about 1000!!!!!

Groves will win.

There are a few on here who get personally insulted if you dont like Froch.

He has acted just as much a child as Groves has in this build up, yet we are expected to give him a pass. I Wouldn't be surprised if he wins via robbery like the Dirrell fight.

Now, now Reborn lets not get silly about the Dirrell fight. Close fight and could have gone either way, but by no means a robbery. Personally I just gave it to Froch watching it back. For me you should not be able to win a fight being as negative as Dirrell was, which to my eyes took caution to too far an extreme.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Slow, Lumbering Froch is toast!!!!

Calls Groves "smelly breath" and with a nose like that it must be magnified by about 1000!!!!!

Groves will win.

There are a few on here who get personally insulted if you dont like Froch.

He has acted just as much a child as Groves has in this build up, yet we are expected to give him a pass. I Wouldn't be surprised if he wins via robbery like the Dirrell fight.

Groves has neither the speed or technical prowess of Dirrell. What he does have is a decent heart which will prove his undoing, not exactly got an iron chin either

Froch inside 6, mirrors the Bute fight for me. 7/2 for 4-6 sounds right for me.

Rowley wrote:Now, now Reborn lets not get silly about the Dirrell fight. Close fight and could have gone either way, but by no means a robbery. Personally I just gave it to Froch watching it back. For me you should not be able to win a fight being as negative as Dirrell was, which to my eyes took caution to too far an extreme.

Yet we get folks slating Bellew for looking bad against the ultra defensive Chilemba.

Whatever way people scored it Dirrell exposed a lot of Froch's weaknesses.  He made Carl look bad for long periods.

With a bit more offensive work Dirrell was an easy winner and in general is a better fighter than Froch in my view. Dirrell was inexperienced going into that fight.

I had Dirrell winning a close fight and I think Froch was very relieved to get the result.


A lot of people have negative slick defensive fighters in their Top 10 ATG's around here but Dirrell gets vilified?

Dirrell is not a slick defensive fighter though, he's in my opinion a runner plain and simple, easy to say if he was more offensive he'd have won but that would have meant putting himself in harms way. To me a defensive fighter is in range to fight back not constantly moving out of range where he is unable to do anything in return. His performance against Froch was akin to Haye against Wlad, wasn't getting hit but doing nothing in return.

His performance against Froch was akin to Haye against Wlad, wasn't getting hit but doing nothing in return.

Gotta ask why it was so close on the cards then if Dirrell was running all night

He eventually decided to box properly in the 10th round, being ultra negative isn't defensive brilliance.

The problem for Groves Is Froch has a lot invested in this fight.......For one a fellow Countryman disrespecting you is bound to get the juices flowing whether Groves means it or not.......

and also losing to a fellow Brit is not how he'd want to go out.........Probably be the fight he's most remembered for .......losing a Battle of Britain....

Where as Froch labored against Taylor, Dirrell types...........I imagine he is going to view this as legacy-diminishing should he lose and be up for it big style..

Groves should have killed him with kindness........

Agree Truss. All he has done is centre Froch's anger. May have made him look silly in an interview, but that's going to be reversed when Froch is in the ring with him.

Possibly, but could work in reverse. He might go crazy and the more accurate Froch of recent fights might go missing for too much of the fight to win.

See Chunky has weighed in with his thoughts over on skysports:

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/9033114/james-degale-froch-groves-is-not-a-one-horse-race

Here is a snippet of one of the quotes to come out from the interview;

"But saying that, It wouldn't surprise me if 'Ugly Kid' pulls this off and that's on a serious note."

Clearly he has learnt as much about keeping his mouth closed as he has improving inside the ring i.e. nothing! The guy is an A class twonk...hope we get him on podcast to tell him that one day!

Groves to use his superior speed and footwork to run rings around the slow Froch. Groves will draw mistakes from Froch. And Groves will pick him off. Groves UD 116-112

Froch looked ready to rip Groves to pieces at the head-to-head and Groves looked small. How was the presser?

perhaps im being sucked in by the hype, when this first got announced i have been froch ko win. but as its drawing nearer im finding myself thinking that groves can give froch a real test here.

froch has never look good against fighters who fight off the back foot, and re watching groves v degale today groves was doing this very well. the other factor is froch power v groves chin. for me froch has only ever really shown his power when the fighter stands in front of him something im sure groves isnt going to do. the likes of bute were stuck on the ropes where carl could just unload on him, and groves being knocked down while pretty green isnt enough to convince me he has a amir khan style chin.

going stick my neck out and say froch to win on a close points victory after being in a great fight, come forward froch out muscling him to nick enough rounds but taking a fair few whacks on that nose of his walking into shots.

dont usually change my opinion on fights and dont usually let the hype effect me, but i am genuinely intrigued with this one the nearer it has got. well thats my bit done to the sky hype train, when do i get my cut?

Cant believe people are saying Froch stops Groves, surely Froch wins on points in his last 8 fights he's stopped Yusaf Mack and 'overhyped' Lucian Bute. Groves under Adam Booth would have been stopped in this fight but under Paddy will be well disciplined. This fight reminds me of when Froch fought Dirrel except Carl is more experienced now and thats why I see him being slightly more cautious and get job down over distance.

compelling and rich wrote:perhaps im being sucked in by the hype, when this first got announced i have been froch ko win. but as its drawing nearer im finding myself thinking that groves can give froch a real test here.

froch has never look good against fighters who fight off the back foot, and re watching groves v degale today groves was doing this very well. the other factor is froch power v groves chin. for me froch has only ever really shown his power when the fighter stands in front of him something im sure groves isnt going to do. the likes of bute were stuck on the ropes where carl could just unload on him, and groves being knocked down while pretty green isnt enough to convince me he has a amir khan style chin.

going stick my neck out and say froch to win on a close points victory after being in a great fight, come forward froch out muscling him to nick enough rounds but taking a fair few whacks on that nose of his walking into shots.

dont usually change my opinion on fights and dont usually let the hype effect me, but i am genuinely intrigued with this one the nearer it has got. well thats my bit done to the sky hype train, when do i get my cut?

having a look back dont think i was too far off with my prediction, still not convinced froch would have got rid of him as easy as some are saying, groves looked more tired than hurt and a round off can soon recover you a bit. think froch would have won the later rounds so on most peoples cards think groves would have won just but the judges would have given it to froch. sadly we'll never know because of that stupid ref

DAVE667 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:My take on it (other than how cruel some people on this forum can be) is that there's a lot to be said for what Froch doesn't do as much as what Groves has to do.

I think it's fair to say that Groves has to make Froch miss and punish him for his mistakes but it's whether or not Froch heeds these warnings or decides to try and prove how much of a tough guy he is by trying walk through the shots. Froch's pride maybe his undoing here.

Still up for debate as to how hard Groves really does hit but as Ward and Kessler showed, you don't have to hit Froch hard, just hit him in the right place and keep doing it.

Conventional wisdom says Froch but I'm going for Groves (a new daytime quiz show with Henry Kelly if ever there was one)

What I meant was, I can see Groves evading quite well as Froch does telegraph sometimes and doesn't have fast hands. But will he evade and move, or counter with hard shots. Sounds obvious that he needs to make him pay, but you know what I mean, me old mucker

He needs to do both. Froch won't be put off by missing with his shots but if he's missing AND getting countered with hard enough counter, it will be to Groves' advantage. Groves needs to try and make Froch look clueless and cumbersome whilst bouncing right hands off his noggin. Do that for nine and a half rounds then RUUUUNNNNNNN!

Damn it George, listen to me next time!!!!!!!!!!!

good prediction dave, im glad my change of perception up to the fight wasn't wrong. technically though all those predicting froch KO are more right than us. but we'll have to take the moral high ground

compelling and rich wrote:good prediction dave, im glad my change of perception up to the fight wasn't wrong. technically though all those predicting froch KO are more right than us. but we'll have to take the moral high ground

Pleeease, I've been here for years.