Froch vs Groves Article SPOILERS

I've just put my write up on the journal, agree disagree? Let me know, we're going to have a lot to discuss on Wednesdays football podcast.

http://v2journal.com/16/post/2013/11/froch-gets-controversial-stoppage.html

hampo171 wrote:'The stoppage in my eyes was premature. I am not saying that George Groves would have come through this crisis, however he wasn’t even given the chance'.

yep I agree with this. Groves took one punch and then Groves covered up and straight away the ref stopped the fight before any more punches were thrown.

Groves took one punch and the ref stopped the fight.

I dont recall Groves throwing back doing much before it was stopped, I just think he was not given enough time to try too...

Also when Froch was knocked down he was straight back to his feet and while defiantly hurt and wobbled. he got back behind his jab and saw the round out relatively safely considering how hard he was hit.

Groves was catching Froch with some big shots but Froch was taking them, at no point in the fight was Froch unable to defend him self or needed the Ref to intervene apart from where he was floored.

that's the only parts I disagree with.

I think the fight went the way many thought it would, only with Groves being far more dangerous and making Carl look much slower and inaccurate than people thought in the first half of the fight. and no one in-visioned Carl being floored.

For me the tide turned a bit later in the fight than I thought, I felt George was trouble him in the first 4 rounds and then by the 5 or 6 Carl would dominate... but it took Carl till the 8th to start to get a hold of Groves and by the 9th it was in his territory...

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hampo171 wrote:'The stoppage in my eyes was premature. I am not saying that George Groves would have come through this crisis, however he wasn’t even given the chance'.

yep I agree with this. Groves took one punch and then Groves covered up and straight away the ref stopped the fight before any more punches were thrown.

Groves took one punch and the ref stopped the fight.

He took a couple leading up to it first while trying to trade with Carl, Froch then come forward, Groves was then backing up and he then took three in a row with no reply before the reff stopped it with the last two being flush with Georges hands hanging by his side...

So one is simply not true.

tunes666 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hampo171 wrote:'The stoppage in my eyes was premature. I am not saying that George Groves would have come through this crisis, however he wasn’t even given the chance'.

yep I agree with this. Groves took one punch and then Groves covered up and straight away the ref stopped the fight before any more punches were thrown.

Groves took one punch and the ref stopped the fight.

He took a couple leading up to it first while trying to trade with Carl, Froch then come forward, Groves was then backing up and he then took three in a row with no reply before the reff stopped it with the last two being flush with Georges hands hanging by his side...

So one is simply not true.

Both trading on the ropes and froch lands a clean punch, Groves than covers up and moves off of the ropes. They both trade again and both land shots but froch lands a hard shot, Groves then covers up and pushes Froch away from him with one arm whilst the other arm is protecting his head, at which point the ref decides to call off the fight.

At no point was Grove's hands hanging by his side.

I have to agree this angle looks better than I remember, from the replays.. and Groves is trying to throw back, although missing..

although from 0:24 Froch lands a big right that hurts Groves and he lands a few more as Groves tries to hold the reff brakes it up..  then on the restart he lands about another 6 before its stopped, so I still dont agree with the 1 punch claim, and again Froch was never under as much pressure previously in the fight, Frich was going for the knock out because Groves was there for the taking, Froch was not.

Also Groves hands where by his side just as the reff grabbed him..

Yes it was too early though. But I still think Groves would have been stopped.

tunes666 wrote:I have to agree this angle looks better than I remember, from the replays.. and Groves is trying to throw back, although missing..

although from 0:24 Froch lands a big right that hurts Groves and he lands a few more as Groves tries to hold the reff brakes it up..  then on the restart he lands about another 6 before its stopped, so I still dont agree with the 1 punch claim, and again Froch was never under as much pressure previously in the fight, Frich was going for the knock out because Groves was there for the taking, Froch was not.

Also Groves hands where by his side just as the reff grabbed him..

Yes it was too early though. But I still think Groves would have been stopped.

the punch at 24 seconds had no effect on the punches at 53 in terms of the ref calling the stoppage. groves had tied froch up and after the break was bouncing on his feet.

froch landed 2 punches not 1 but one of the punches he landed was when groves was also landing punches, although not as strong.

Groves is on the ropes and receives a clean punch so he covers up, he then moves off of the ropes and TRADES with Froch, groves receives another clean punch, groves then covers up again and the ref calls off the fight.

I do not think Groves' hands are by his side. They are covering his head until the ref grabs him. It is the ref grabbing him that makes groves drop his hands.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
the punch at 24 seconds had no effect on the punches at 53 in terms of the ref calling the stoppage. groves had tied froch up and after the break was bouncing on his feet.

Yes it does, a reff needs to look at the punches a fighter is taking all the time and this effects his assesment in stopping the fight... when Froch was on the ropes and taking shots, his condition is based on how many shots he takes, and a big right it what hurt him to start with which he did not fully recover from.

froch landed 2 punches not 1 but one of the punches he landed was when groves was also landing punches, although not as strong.

you need to look at your own vid. He landed two bombs, and before then landed about 3... again your angle is not the best to see, the slow mo close up is better... and what the reff would have been seen.

Groves is on the ropes and receives a clean punch so he covers up, he then moves off of the ropes and TRADES with Froch, groves receives another clean punch, groves then covers up again and the ref calls off the fight.

lol if thats what you want to see then go for it.

I do not think Groves' hands are by his side. They are covering his head until the ref grabs him. It is the ref grabbing him that makes groves drop his hands.

his hands are by his side after he tries to push carl off him and carl steps back, and they slump down just as the reff grabs him and he may well have fallen over if the ref was not there..   it was not a hold, Carl had space and was still throwing, there was no split.

Lets not pretend Groves was not very much hurt. look at it again and imagine the reff was not there what was Carl going to do?

tunes666 wrote:

As I said his hands are by his sides BECAUSE the ref grabbed him in a headlock.

tunes666 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
the punch at 24 seconds had no effect on the punches at 53 in terms of the ref calling the stoppage. groves had tied froch up and after the break was bouncing on his feet.

Yes it does, a reff needs to look at the punches a fighter is taking all the time and this effects his assesment in stopping the fight... when Froch was on the ropes and taking shots, his condition is based on how many shots he takes, and a big right it what hurt him to start with which he did not fully recover from.

froch landed 2 punches not 1 but one of the punches he landed was when groves was also landing punches, although not as strong.

you need to look at your own vid. He landed two bombs, and before then landed about 3... again your angle is not the best to see, the slow mo close up is better... and what the reff would have been seen.

Groves is on the ropes and receives a clean punch so he covers up, he then moves off of the ropes and TRADES with Froch, groves receives another clean punch, groves then covers up again and the ref calls off the fight.

lol if thats what you want to see then go for it.

I do not think Groves' hands are by his side. They are covering his head until the ref grabs him. It is the ref grabbing him that makes groves drop his hands.

his hands are by his side after he tries to push carl off him and carl steps back, and they slump down just as the reff grabs him and he may well have fallen over if the ref was not there..   it was not a hold, Carl had space and was still throwing, there was no split.

Lets not pretend Groves was not very much hurt. look at it again and imagine the reff was not there what was Carl going to do?

The punch at 24 seconds should not be taken into account for the stoppage at 55 seconds because Groves had recovered from the punch. He tied Froch up for a good 10 seconds and then after the ref called break he was bouncing around and throwing punches. The punch at 24 seconds was just a hard unch, nothing special.

He landed 2 clean shots. As I said the other punces were blocked or grazing punches.

So you are saying his hands are by his side BECAUSE he used his hands to push Froch? If that is the case that means Groves was defending himsef at all times because his hands were u at all times protecting himself apart from when he is launching his own attacks which is what you have just said.

I never said Groves was not hurt, I said he was throwing punches back and had his hands up protecting himself at all times and he only received 2 clean shots. One of the shots was during a TRADE where both fighters were hit and the other clean shot was unanswered but Groves covered up after that and had the strength/ awareness to launch his own attack ( a push).

Scored it again in the cold light of day and came up with same score 78-73. Froch won 2 rounds. I do think the tide was turning and Groves was starting to get drawn into Froch's fight and no once can rule out the possibility of Froch getting the stoppage.

Regardless of that, the stoppage was ridiculously premature. Groves was trying to avoid punches and was throwing his own punches back. The ref should have allowed it to continue and at the least, Groves deserved the opportunity to continue to fight back or at worst, to take a count. Even with a 10-8 round, Groves would have still been 3 rounds up going into the 10th.

The 76-75 cards are a nonsense. I do think boxing needs to consider making judges explain their cards. It wasn't a difficulty fight to score - so easy in fact, that even Jim Watt's card made sense.

I still reckon the stoppage was early but watching that clip above, just before the stoppage Groves throws a couple of wild shots that miss Froch. As he does his balance is way off and his legs are all over the place. Probably not as a result of the shots he's taking but to the ref it could have looked as though he was in serious trouble

The fight is sour from a number of angles the 76-75 cards, I'd it 78-74, and felt that I'd given anything close to Carl.
Carl hit on the break numerous times, rabbit punches, the ref was obviously bias prior to the stoppage.

Now I think Carl was turning the tide and groves had been getting sloppy, but it doesn't make the whole event stink. Now it was a fantastic fight, but does this help or hinder a rematch ppv for the casual? Would you be willing to shell out again if you believe that the only way someone beats froch in the uk is by the more than improbable KO?

Why would anyone think they'd get a fair shake in the uk? It's a horrible state of affairs for us boxing fans. At least the crowd showed fans don't want a win at any cost.