Ward loses another opponent - Holmes effect?

Ward - already lacking in the credible/challenging opponent stakes has just lost his last credible "challenge" (read easy Payday) in the division and with Groves possibly tied up for the rematch he'll either have to step out of the game again or move up. Kovalev is not a big name, Stevenson might shift some but do you think he'd better wait around or try to earn by fighting frequently against the lesser challenges. That said - he could give one of the Middleweights a crack or is there a slight possibility in derailing the rematch and fighting Groves while his ticket is still hot?

Andre Ward gives you the choice to select his opponents for the next year, who what, how, when. Assume dates/times/opponents current Status all fall in line.

Will Ward forever be remebered as a great fighter in an era of decent ones ala the legendary holmes?

I think Ward just has to move up to 175 for now, if he's serious about giving his pound for pound credentials some real embellishment. It doesn't necessarily have to be a permanent move, as he's still comfortable making Super-Middleweight it seems, but a Froch rematch, rightly or wrongly, was the only fight at 168 which anyone had any really notable interest in. If the expected rematch between Froch and Groves comes off, then Ward could always return to fight the winner, but he can't afford to just be sitting around in the meantime, fighting gatekeepers or worse still not fighting at all.

Right now, I'd go for Stevenson, assuming he gets past Bellew. Slightly bigger name than Kovalez, brings genuine, chilling power at the highest level which not many of Ward's recent foes have done, and gives Ward the opportunity of taking home another Ring belt.

If it were down to me, that's who I'd go after in early 2014. Then maybe back down to 168 for the winner of the Groves-Froch rematch, particularly if either man can win it conclusively. From an overall point of view, Ward-Groves would be an easier sell than Ward-Froch II, as you can't really get those visions of Ward handling Froch first time around out of the head, regardless of Froch's impressive form since then.

Anything but Chavez Jr!

Might be a little money in chavez JR though, he might end up outweighed by a yokozuna or two and his opponent on a cocktail of cociane, cannabis and crystal meth.

He won't move up if he can get Chavez junior in the ring. Incredibly easy nights work for lots of $$$

Ward needs to sort out his troubles with his promoter first. He cleary feels he should be a name ala Floyd.

He also needs to fight Froch again to be fair, IMO.

Have it in the UK and then maybe a rubber match if Froch somehow wins.

Carl should then sail into retirement having had an absolute belting career.

Why would he need to fight Froch? He humiliated him last time and now frochs stock is probably lower than it was before. Unless Froch beats groves convincingly then they'll fight but not in the uk - not after that farce. Better chance for groves to fight ward but even that is an off chance.

Ward would be an idiot to come to the UK to fight Froch. Had the first fight been in the UK on a Hearn promoted card Froch would have won by SD or a ref diving in to save Ward in the last round or two. He could come here and win every round and potentially lose a decison or find himself stopped if Froch lands a flurry while defending himself. Or disqualified for hitting on the break after Froch gets 5 warnings. He already beat Froch. The fight wasnt great so no point having it again. Especially not in the UK. The only potential for interest would be to see how awful the home cooking is.

God some people on here are so bitter its really sad to see.

boxing is in a bad way, no thanks to some pathetic critique and bad mouthing.

Ridiculous.

No whats really going on is the majority of people are disgusted by a great fight being ruined by terrible/corrupt officiating. You are just unhappy because it involves your favourite fighter.

mobilemaster8 wrote:He also needs to fight Froch again to be fair, IMO.

Have it in the UK and then maybe a rubber match if Froch somehow wins.

Carl should then sail into retirement having had an absolute belting career.  

When carl sails into retirement are you going to be roger, his cabinboy?

milkyboy wrote:

mobilemaster8 wrote:He also needs to fight Froch again to be fair, IMO.

Have it in the UK and then maybe a rubber match if Froch somehow wins.

Carl should then sail into retirement having had an absolute belting career.  

When carl sails into retirement are you going to be roger, his cabinboy?

No, he is going to be all hands on dikk seaman

Jaysus Mobile, you really have taken that weekends boxing badly haven't you!?

All I can read by your posts are "HOW DARE YOU SPEAK ILL OF THE WARRIOR!!"

Froch's stock is down near Ricky Burns' right now and I struggle to see how it can be rebuilt to were it was after the Bute fight.

Saturday night regardless of the final result, he looked OLD....Watt made a great point (for a change), "the last time Froch fought a young up and comer in his 20s was Andre Dirrell, and he struggled then as well".

Groves will have learnt enough to help him improve after that fight, Froch unfortunately didn't learn a thing from the Dirrell fight. Lumbered forward, couldn't keep out of the way of continuous right hands and jabs.

I don't see at 36/37 how the guy can change so whats the point in a fight against Ward. He gets beat 10 times out of 10. He has absolutely no chance unless Foster and co are officiating.

What world level opponent is going to take on Froch in the UK after that fight on Saturday. Hopefully none. Hes had 2 gifts now. Lets hope he never gets another.

Agree with the general comments here. Ward would have to be mad to come to the UK looking at the recent scoring in some of our fights, they are on a par with Germany of a few years ago. The refereeing and scoring on Saturday was bordering on the same levels as Sven Ottke fights.

Let's be fairl to Carl though, the Dirrell fight wasn't a robbery. It was close as could have went either way.

Ward should move to 175. Potential good fights with Stevenson, Kovalev and  co...

I think a few people will have watched the weekends fight and think that Froch is on the slide and there for the taking. Maybe one of the Americans (Dirrell?) or instead maybe GGG moving up? I think there will be more interest in fighting him now - throw money at him to travel.

I have a great deal of respect for both Burns and Froch by the way Reborn. Not the most technically gifted either of them, but they both show such grit when faced with better technical boxers. The dubious officiating is not their fault.

mobilemaster8 wrote:He also needs to fight Froch again to be fair, IMO.

Have it in the UK and then maybe a rubber match if Froch somehow wins.

Carl should then sail into retirement having had an absolute belting career.  

 

You're like the Steffan anti-thesis!!

Froch just got thoroughly outboxed by a junior. You think the result will be any different when he fights an even better boxer, who's already beaten him, and doesn't have the 'chinny' tag to risk early stoppage, simply because it'll be on these shores??

Froch's poor performance has killed any interest in a Ward rematch, Ward should just wait to see if Fatty JCCjr will fight him at 168 and if not go clean up at 175 - I think he has everyone's number at that weight anyway.

joeyjojo618 wrote:I have a great deal of respect for both Burns and Froch by the way Reborn. Not the most technically gifted either of them, but they both show such grit when faced with better technical boxers. The dubious officiating is not their fault.

At least Burns was man enough to admit he'd got lucky and screwed Beltran, not parading around like some faux-hero.

There are loads of boxers who I respect but do not like personally. I dont care what they have to say outside the ring, Im not into all the soap opera carry on associated with sport these days.

[Edit] But you are right Froch's act is pretty tiresome.

I didn't say it was their fault. I am just saying their stock after their recent fights is now more or less on par.

Ricky Burns' next fight will be the harder sell, but Froch is going to have to do something massive to wipe Saturday night from peoples memories. He hit his peak after the Bute fight (money wise), but now the public have been left with a bitter taste in their mouths (due to the officials mainly) so apart from a Groves rematch who is really going to fork out £15 for PPV again for Carl?? When (or if) he signs for another fight, the only thing people are going to talk about is his fight against Groves.

I can't see him doing the numbers he has been doing over the last few fights. Not with how the public have reacted.

I think plenty of people will fork out for the Groves rematch. Controversy aside, it was a fight of great intensity and high quality, the like of which we don't see that often at the highest level in this country. Everyone will be keen to see a second installment.

How Froch's stock can be compared with Burns on any level is something of a mystery to me. Burns ought to have had no chance of retaining his belt and was the beneficiary of a poor decision. Froch has been fortunate, but was in the fight and MIGHT well have gone on to win it in any event. That is even before we consider their past records, longevity and achievements, where Froch may justly be seen to be as many as 30 spots higher in an all-time UK boxing pecking order. Time and a talented younger opponent have caught up with Froch, as has happened with so many others, but I don't see why people won't go to see his last hurrah - there aren't many fighters whose fights guarantee such excellent action.

Rematch is a guaranteed sell-out. Chances are it will be at the O2 no doubt leading to all manner of suggestons that, if Groves wins, HE was the recipient of home town decision and we all die a little inside.

People will also pay for it as, sad as it may be, many people will want to see Froch flat on his back in much the same way many paid to see Groves knocked out as opposed to wanting to watch another good fight.

Paddy Fitzgerald was interviewed saying that he had a gameplan that would see Froch stopped in four rounds (given the way Groves performed on Saturday, who's to say that's not impossible).

Froch is clearly on the slide and it's got to be factored in that six/eight months down the line, he isn't going to get any fitter, stronger or smarter so unless Froch just wants to take one last massive payday (he was happy for shot Kessler to come and take another pounding) he might want to seriously consider retirement with his faculties intact.

His WARRIOR pride won't let him though

Sorry Captain, I should have mentioned that only a Froch v Groves rematch would do similar numbers, but after the weekend can we seriously say Froch would sell well in PPV against any other opponent after how the public reacted to the outcome of Saturdays fight.

I used the Burns comparison only based on how the crowd at the arena, journalists and fans on social media took to the result. It was almost a carbon copy of the aftermath of Burns v Beltran.

Froch is still an exciting fighter and you know you are getting your moneys worth watching his fights as he nearly always goes 12 full action packed rounds. But with these middleweights emerging and rumoured to be moving up, plus Groves, even Degale and co. I'd say it won't be long before Froch is getting shown up and actually losing against guys who wouldn't have troubled him maybe 3/4 years ago.

Father time is ruthless

Captain - I just don't think anyone will purchase the Ward rematch unless he avenges this loss comprehensively. The groves rematch is as close to guranteed sellout as you can get

Absolutely agree with that, Dee. I've said elsewhere that if he chooses to box on, I would wish to see Froch take on only Groves and then call it a day. Nothing more to be proved, I wouldn't think and in British terms, a Hall of Fame career to be proud of.

Wouldn't go near a Froch-Ward II fight myself, Shah. Thefact that it's an unwinnable fight for him, wherever it's held, is the first of many good reasons that the fight wouldn't even be considered now. The others include unfinished business with Groves and the fact that ward's own sights seem to be trained north of 168. Can't say I've ever had much appetite for a rerun of Froch-Ward in any event. SOG's superiority was so clear first time round that I couldn't imagine a different result, no matter how I try.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Wouldn't go near a Froch-Ward II fight myself, Shah. Thefact that it's an unwinnable fight for him, wherever it's held, is the first of many good reasons that the fight wouldn't even be considered now. The others include unfinished business with Groves and the fact that ward's own sights seem to be trained north of 168. Can't say I've ever had much appetite for a rerun of Froch-Ward in any event. SOG's superiority was so clear first time round that I couldn't imagine a different result, no matter how I try.

I could...Froch being stopped.

Much like Calzaghe in the latter part of his career, I can see Froch hitting the deck with alarming regularity. Fast, hard, accurate hitters will ALWAYS cause him trouble and, given the disparaging comments he's made about Ward in the past, I can see Ward wanting to put an end to the debate in emphatic style.

However, the Groves rematch seems the most likely and I have a feeling that Froch will lose. He can't try jump on Groves early as George has clearly shown he possesses the boxing skill to cause Froch trouble and incredibly, the strength to force him back. Froch's only hope is to wear Groves down again but one has to ask how long Froch can keep dipping into the Warrior Well

hehe "the Warrior Well" love it!!!

I wouldnt agree that Froch has nothing prove. Especially in light of the last fight.

He still has to prove he is the best in the division which is still a goal he could have set himself (unless hes convinced himself he is already). He arguably also now has to prove he is actually the best in the country as the last fight left that question open. Lastly there is always the money. I think the last fight has opened the door for a domestic rivalry with Groves and Degale which could be played out on pay per view to the British public. There is money in that, which always motivates.

catchweight wrote:I wouldnt agree that Froch has nothing prove. Especially in light of the last fight.

He still has to prove he is the best in the division which is still a goal he could have set himself (unless hes convinced himself he is already). He arguably also now has to prove he is actually the best in the country as the last fight left that question open. Lastly there is always the money. I think the last fight has opened the door for a domestic rivalry with Groves and Degale which could be played out on pay per view to the British public. There is money in that, which always motivates.

he only does that if Ward leaves for good and groves quits the sport

You forget that he's 36. Retirement is probably the most sensible course of action, but a Groves fight followed by goodbye is a good second choice. When I say that he has nothing to prove, it's true, any more than Lennox did after his fight with Vitali. You can't defy time forever and fighters do ultimately lose to younger successors - the sensible few, like Marciano, make their escape before that happens. I suspect that Groves-Froch II will happen for one reason - Froch's vanity. His ego is sufficiently well-developed that he won't like the idea of his final memory of boxing being a crescendo of catcalls. So one more fight, but the final curtain is close.

Lewis had literally no more to prove. He proved he was the best heavyweight in the world and he beat Klitschko without the help of a ridiculous ref.

Froch could comfortable retire on a good career but he still has targets out there he has yet to prove and money he could make now hes a ppv attraction. He hasnt made the kind of huge money a heayweight like Lewis made. There lots of reasons to continue. Hes also seemingly only become old now that Groves pasted him for 6 rounds. Before this fight he was in the form of his life.

captain carrantuohil wrote:You forget that he's 36. Retirement is probably the most sensible course of action, but a Groves fight followed by goodbye is a good second choice. When I say that he has nothing to prove, it's true, any more than Lennox did after his fight with Vitali. You can't defy time forever and fighters do ultimately lose to younger successors - the sensible few, like Marciano, make their escape before that happens. I suspect that Groves-Froch II will happen for one reason - Froch's vanity. His ego is sufficiently well-developed that he won't like the idea of his final memory of boxing being a crescendo of catcalls. So one more fight, but the final curtain is close.

Nail hit firmly on head....refs steps in to stop the contest

At Froch's age, fighters can become old overnight, particularly if they fight like he does. At various points of his fights with them, Froch has looked unbelievably ordinary against Dirrell, Taylor, Kessler and Ward, but never has he look positively aged to me before Groves got hold of him.

The signs are as plain as a pikestaff - time to go, old son, obviously with long service commendations and backslaps all round, but the wheel has turned, as it usually does.

Groves made him look old