India in South Africa 2013

First topic message reminder :

The BCCI have picked the test squad for South Africa well in advance, so the debates can also start well in time.

Olly wrote:*awaits kp_fan to come on and blame the south African bowlers...*

Surely Andy Flower?

Faf and Philander have put on 23 so far and is bringing a sense of stability to the innings after that horrer patch in between. The NEw ball is some way away, if the South Africans remain positive, they can still manage a first innings lead, all that they need is a good partnership. Steyn and Morkel have tended to bat well against the Indians in the past and score some valuable lower order runs. Perhaps MS should bring Ashwin on from one end and try to tempt Philander into a mistake? Even Faf hasn' had the best of records against Ajmal, though on turning tracks.

I think it is actually necessary to bring Ashwin on, the seamers have already bowled a lot of overs. Ashwin bowling just the 2 overs out of the 55 that the Indians have bowled so far.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Olly wrote:*awaits kp_fan to come on and blame the south African bowlers...*

Surely Andy Flower?

I assumed that was a given

Yeah, Ashwin's on now. He has to bowl well here, keep it quiet, shouldn't try too many things, a wicket would be a big bonus.

Good Evening Guys. Missed most of the action of SA innings. But its pleasure watching SA on backfoot. Philander is batting beautifully. Is he an allrounder?

Zaheer back on to bowl his 20th over. 19 out of 56 is a lot of bowling for Zak, but he has taken the responsibility on. Dhoni might be thinking of using his seamers in short spells from one end with Ashwin operating from the other. Don't think Zaheer will bowl more than 3 overs here in this spell.

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Good Evening Guys. Missed most of the action of SA innings. But its pleasure watching SA on backfoot. Philander is batting beautifully. Is he an allrounder?

Philander, before his fabulous start to his test career was known as a handy limited overs all-rounder. He has a First Class batting average in the mid 20s, and has scored some crucial runs in test cricket, he made a crucial 60 odd against England and a 70 odd against Pakistan last season.

Philander has moved along to 30, and he's slowly restoring South Africa's control over this game. Another 10 overs of this partnership, South Africa can seriously think of taking a not insignificant first innings lead. India need a wicket, and need it very soon. But both the batsmen are looking comfortable.

Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Nathan Lyon, they all made runs against India in recent times and their bowlers have struggled to get red of the lower order time and again. They would hope that its not a reapeat of the same yet again.

Ashwin is bowling utter dross here

Practically even on day 2, with India slightly ahead on the basis of the fact that they have the runs on the board.

210/6 having been 146/6 is a good come back. We can't even be thinking of a lead, but we get within 50, and Dhoni might be a little negative. It's a pity this is only a two test series, as its been two fantastic days of cricket.

South Africa were in command of the game up to tea, and then India made a serious comeback soon after tea to move ahead. The Philander du Plessis partnership has brought the game to even levels. Think stumps came at the right time for India. Philander and Faf were taking the game away from India, tomorrow they'll have to restart, try and settle in against the early morning conditions and the Indian seamers will be refreshed as well.
The 3 Indian seamers were not so consistent with their line and length at times, but they did a fine job overall against a classy batting lineup. Ravichandran Ashwin was rather disappointing though, he should be able to keep things tight, and if the South Africans were to score runs against him, they have to take initiative rather than he letting them off with inconsistent lines.
Both sides are in with a decent chance to take the first innings lead, but it will be difficult for either to take a decisive lead. India would hope to take the remaining 4 wickets within the first hour or so, if Faf and Big Vern can survive the first hour, South Africa should take the lead.
How's the weather shaping up, kingraf?

I'm feeling a #crucialfirsthour tomorrow

Well done India - a marvellous fight from them by getting South Africa 130/1 to 146/6.

Get a small lead now must be the aim and, with the Saffers having to bat last, the advantage shall be with India. Just. Must get Philander out early though and not let him settle.

Olly wrote:I'm feeling a #crucialfirsthour tomorrow

Not to mention the #pivotaldaythree cliche!

Philander showing his all-round importance to this south african side now. He's had always had ability with the bat, and should get his 3rd test match 50 tomorrow morning....suprised Ashwin's only bowled 6 overs though..

Objectively speaking - I'm quite happy with where S.A. is at the moment. We lost the toss and are 67 runs behind with four wickets in hand. Not the worst state of play, and one i would have taken.

That said, when we were 130/1, I was looking to a four day innings victory. Also, I met Sunny Gavaskar during a drinks break. Nice guy, if a little vertically challenged.

just saw your question regarding the weather MSP - The sun was out when I got home at around 7-ish, and there looks to be no cloud cover - so my initial instinct is that it's going to be a relatively sunny day, with afternoon thundershowers

Had a look at it - 24 degrees Celsius, but only a 20% chance of precipitation

Poor third session for the Proteas. Great session for India, although Philnader and FAF are still there.

Conditions overhead certainly aided the bowling and even during the Amla and Smith partnership there were a good number of moments where edges or dropped catches came.

SA was not convincing so far in the test.

Anybody's match this.

I see, Ashwin doing his best to reaffirm my belief that he is absolutely $hit when the pitch is anything other than a turner and the batting is half decent.

Decent day for us. Rohit's drop towards the end of the day was unforgivable. Ishant did the unthinkable but I'd wait for a bit of consistency. He has bowled good spells before such as at Nagpur against England 12 months ago on the first day of the Test but couldn't sustain it. I really hope he can maintain this this time around. With Ashwin looking inspid, he'll have a big role to play.

Once again, we $ucked when it comes to bowling at tail enders.   

Rohit Sharma and Ravichandran Ashwin are the 2 players who haven't really put their hands up in this test match, and Shikhar Dhawan as well. Rohit played an awful shot to get out before scoring anything meaningful, and then dropped a sitter that would have broken the troubling 7th wicket partnership, may just have dropped the test match really. Ashwin too put down a catch that would have dismissed the South African kskipper much before he scored 68, and more importantly, he couldn't really control the flow of runs when the captain and the seamers needed him to block an end and let the quicks attack from one end rather than stretching the seam bowling resources and risking an overrate fine or even ban for the captain.
Faf was dropped by Rohit on 17, he hasn't added a run after that though the partnership progressed by 6 runs. Hopefully the drop won't cost them too much tomorrow morning.

A subplot that is evolving in the course of this series is the question on Jacques Kallis' career.
Kallis has had one of the poorest years in his 17 year old test career, he's averaging 16 after 10 innings this year didn't make it to double figures in his last 5 innings, was out LBW 5 out of the last 6 innings.......
Is it the beginning of the end for a fabulous career? Or is it just a rough patch, the kind of which he overcame in the past? Kallis is 38, his body has certainly taken a serious workload with his dual responsibilities. Has he reached that stage of his career where the reflexes have slowed down? Kallis is a great of the game, even the reflexes slow, that greatness can produce an outstanding innings at times, though it is likely that the gap between one and the next could be an extended one, we saw that with Sachin Tendulkar in the last couple of years of his career. That would mean greater attention from the media and the fans, and perhaps a bit of self-doubting as well. That would mean you might have to look rather ugly at times. Is Kallis, after this glittering career, ready for the grind at the end?
He really has dominated the Indians in his career, averaging close to 70 against them. Perhaps after today's blip, the big man will be back to haunt the Indian bowlers again. But if he fails to get out of the rudd in this series, perhaps Kallis should think of shelving his plans of a limited overs return, they've been without him for most of the last 2 years in ODIs, but I believe he has a bit more left in the tank and it is the test side that would need it the most at this stage.
Kallis is one of those irreplaceable cricketers, but South Africa have to think about life after Kallis as nothing good is going to last for ever.

Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

msp83 wrote:Rohit Sharma and Ravichandran Ashwin are the 2 players who haven't really put their hands up in this test match, and Shikhar Dhawan as well. Rohit played an awful shot to get out before scoring anything meaningful, and then dropped a sitter that would have broken the troubling 7th wicket partnership, may just have dropped the test match really. Ashwin too put down a catch that would have dismissed the South African kskipper much before he scored 68, and more importantly, he couldn't really control the flow of runs when the captain and the seamers needed him to block an end and let the quicks attack from one end rather than stretching the seam bowling resources and risking an overrate fine or even ban for the captain.
Faf was dropped by Rohit on 17, he hasn't added a run after that though the partnership progressed by 6 runs. Hopefully the drop won't cost them too much tomorrow morning.

Vijay has been awful too unless of course you're just satisfied by seeing the new ball off. You need to score runs too in Test cricket.

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

He was pants in his few overs today. Didn't build any pressure, bowled way too short and wayward. Wasn't helped by bizarre field placings by Dhoni, you'd have thought De Villiers was out there on 100 not out the amount of fielders on the fence

  

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

yes it needs only 6 overs of bowling to draw that inference on a green seaming pitch by watching only one of two bowlers in comparison in those conditions
you are so logical

KP_fan wrote:  

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

yes it needs only 6 overs of bowling to draw that inference on a green seaming pitch by watching only one of two bowlers in comparison in those conditions

The 3 Tests in Australia never happened I guess.

:clap:you are so logical

Irony weeps.

KP_fan wrote:  

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

yes it needs only 6 overs of bowling to draw that inference on a green seaming pitch by watching only one of two bowlers in comparison in those conditions
you are so logical

KP_fan - Didn't you believe that Harbhajan Singh was "back" as a top-class bowler last year after watching him bowl for 4 overs in a T20 game against England?

In fact, I have the very quote here:

Spoiler:

The only half decent side both Ojha and Ashwin have played against is England and we all saw who was the better bowler. But lets pick Ashwin because he has bullied the NZ and WI kids slightly better than Ojha.

its hurts to see Philander pulling them back.....but that's OK...cricket is about the bottmline of inings...and so far India has kept them tighter then expected.

also as I have said a few times already.....this is a very competent Indian pace attack...will match SA blow for blow....actually the best set of 5 seam bowlers to have left our shores since I have been watching cricket.

and Ishant's dig the ball in style was gonna be effective as we saw in last ODI.

So if the match keeps going forward per my script....SA will take a slender lead....and if India should bat with same resolve as they showed in first ining......it will be a nail biting finish if we can set close to even 250 in 4th inning.

win or lose...atleast unlike the previous overseas tour we should be not be blown away is what many of us were looking for...and so far we have competed well

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:  

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

yes it needs only 6 overs of bowling to draw that inference on a green seaming pitch by watching only one of two bowlers in comparison in those conditions
you are so logical

KP_fan - Didn't you believe that Harbhajan Singh was "back" as a top-class bowler last year after watching him bowl for 4 overs in a T20 game against England?

In fact, I have the very quote here:

Spoiler:

but he is doing very well at the start of this Ranji session.......unfortuntaly......Ojha, ashwin and jadeja grabbed their chances when he hit his low and was out of the test side

Faf du Plessis needs a score tomorrow.

7 innings without a 50.

With Quinton de Kock almost demanding selection, Faf, JP and Alviro are those under the pump.

I think those two collapses just highlights how well Kohli played for his century.

Hopefully SA can come back and reduce the deficit to something insignificant, but I feel India is on the front foot at the moment. SA has to bat last.

I agree with the sentiment, FerN. It's a ton thats gotten better in retrospect. I did however voice my displeasure at this pitch on day one already. The Wanderers cracks badly when it's lacking in grass, and in the middle of December, there is absolutely no reason for there not to be a covering. The invariable bounce was disconcerting, but worse, imo was the grip the seamers were getting, it seemed as if Morkel was bowling off cutters in the morning - then Shami did the same thing... It looked to have calmed down by the end of days play, I hope so, in any case.

Faf and Viro are in trouble, you sense. This is JP's third Test back, and he isn't so far removed from a well played 70-odd in the Emirates. Faf, on the other hand, seems to have come down from the lofty heights of Adelaide, really quickly. And there is no shortage of local boys chomping at the bit. He needs a big knock (or a relevant knock) here to prove he isnt an unnecessary luxury.

ShankyCricket wrote:Anyone who still thinks Ashwin is a better bet than Ojha overseas needs a real eye opener.

Ojha hasn't played a test overseas. Just not playing an overseas test doesn't make him better, an extension of what you said about Rohit/Rahane, Shanky. something on the line that getting less chances in comparison to a hugely unfair number Rohit got doesn't make Rahane a better player.......
As I've pointed out a few times, Australia is a place where finger spinners have struggled. Graeme Swann is struggling big time there, Harbhajan was useless there and Murali averaged something like 70.......
Another factor we have to account for is Ashwin's batting. Ojha is not a vastly superior bowler to Ashwin. Indian batting tend to struggle in overseas conditions, and Ashwin adding to their batting depth can come in handy for the side. If Ojha was a massively superior bowler to Ashwin, you can say the better bowler has to play, here the difference isn't that much, the spinner is anyways not expected to run through sides, and the all-round package that Ashwin brings in has to be considered more significant.
If Ashwin continues to bowl this poorly, then I think it is Jadeja, a vastly superior batsman and fielder to Ojha and a very handy asset in providing some control should be the man to play.

the angle that Zaheer comes in to the RHB....and then moves it away off the seam...makes him many time unplayable.....he was it his best in Eng in 2007...and we are seeing him in same form here

Short ball worked for Ishant here. Steyn surprised and edged the ball to the slip.
If India managed to get a lead of 30 runs then what could be the possible fourth innings score to defend successfully. I feel something close to 340 would be enough.

KP_fan wrote:the angle that Zaheer comes in to the RHB....and then moves it away off the seam...makes him many time unplayable.....he was it his best in Eng in 2007...and we are seeing him in same form here

Angle again worked. FDP gone.

Morkel Bowled. India got a lead of 36 runs. Are these runs valuable or India bit lost its control giving runs to Philander. All these questions will be answered when India will come to bat again.

One thing for Zaheer, he made a great comeback. Now he is 299*. Soon he will complete his triple century.   

So South Africa couldn't last the first hour, Philander made 59 but Zaheer took 3 of the last 4 and Ishant took the other to finish with 4 wickets each as India have taken a 36 run lead. After Faf and Philander put that partnership together, I wasn't expecting this much of a lead. so Well done India.
But the South African seamers would be iching to get their side back in control, and Indian batsmen will have to the kind of determination they showed in the first innings on the first day. Hopefully Vijay and Dhawan can see the new ball off and provide the middle order with a decent platform.

Well India exceed expectations....every session....takes a slender....lead...very potent this seam bowling attack is.

Now they need one BIG batting effort...and big in this games context is 300....
very, very heartening show from India so far

a little short the SA seamers so far........need to be a feet fuller. Vijay looks like an LBW candidate if they pitch full and coming in

and Philander...moves his length up....and gets Dhawan.
If Steyn...gets his length up...he will be unplayable

Brilliant mopping up by India in the first hour.

Lead of 300+ here should clinch it.

Might be a bit difficult to attain though, having to combat the main 3 South African seamers. One big innings needed by an Indian batsman.

Oh Oh Oh. This is looking pretty bad for Morne Morkel. Seems to have done his ankle here. Looked very very bad. South Africa would hope its not as bad as it looked. Morkel fielded a legside clip from Pujara but in the process his foot got stuck in the ground and it has looked really bad.

India go to lunch at 31-1. Murali Vijay on 12, Cheteshwar Pujara on 4.

Now Morkel's hobbled off injury just before lunch. Severe blow that, for him and for his country. 31/1 at lunch, lead of 67.

India's session. India starting to take control over the no.1 team in this Test.

Cracking Test match. Much preferring following this one to The Ashes!