Congratulations Irish Regions

This weekend's results for Irish regions in the HC:

Northampton 7 - 40 Leinster
Ulster 48 - 0 Treviso
Munster 36 - 8 Perpignan
Toulouse 14 - 16 Connacht

Aggregate: Irish regions 140 - 29 England/France/Italy

Someone (probably several people) said it earlier this weekend - that nearly-result against NZ seems to have injected something into the Irish regions. Will it transfer into next week too? Into the 6 nations? With Scotland up first at home you have to think on this form along with Joe Schmidt they will easily put them away and that would be good momentum Is this genuinely a new dawn for Irish rugby?

NOT a wum question - Ireland are my second team due to my dad having grown up there and him having a soft spot for them; though I don't go out of my way to support them I do like to see Irish victories if it ain't Scottish.

Its just one of those weeks when everything went right for the provinces. Great win for Connacht but they're rooted to the bottom of the league despite having their strongest ever squad.


Regarding your question, is it a new dawn. I think it is. Schmidt is a quality coach and theres a good quantity of players to choose from with some real quality starting to emerge. Nothing is won on paper though and Ireland have proven to be more inconsistent than the French.

Obviously provincial success is nothing new. But 11 wins out of 12 for the Irish teams this year is pretty outstanding. Despite claims that Ireland is an ageing team, we now have great depth almost universally across the board. The lack of young locks is my only real worry at present.

I thought it was brilliant that Leinster thumped Saints fielding 15 Irishmen, but that was usurped when Connacht deservedly defeated Toulouse with barely a fraction of the French team's budget. I love this competition.
Guys like Kearney and Heaslip were unrecognisable last night from the form they were in before the NZ match. Schmidt is an brilliant tactician but merely inspiring belief amongst these players in a green shirt could yield great glories for Ireland.

I knew Leinster had it in them to perform this weekend due to them having the majority of players in the international team that lost to New Zealand but I never would've expected 4 victories and those scorelines. Irish rugby is in a healthy state at the moment but only time will tell if this can be regarded as a new age. I'd love if it were the case but too many times have I seen Ireland not follow up a great performance with another.

It's not the first time the Provinces have had a clean sweep in European club games.

As for the national team, it depends on whether the players want to really kick on from the NZ game. Raising that level of performance for 80 minutes consistently is something that NH teams struggle to do imo.

Trying to take what seems to work so well at Provincial (HC) level into the national set up has eluded many Irish head coaches. But Leinster's performance this weekend was the most complete of this season's HC so far, and should (along with the other wins) provide momentum.

The provinces nearly always do well though. So they're not doing anything differently. For Ireland, it is a new dawn, because the Kidney era is over and the Schmidt era has started. I don't think the provinces can do any more.

I think one of the reasons they haven't played as well in green recently was that many of the squad were not at ease with the style of rugby they were being asked to play. And belief and even desire seemed to drain out of them the longer Kidney and Smal stayed in charge. When Deccie's head was on the block some players publicly backed him. Others notably did not.

I also think that maybe the provincial loyalties are too strong, and they're not fully comfortable with each other when they come together. Hopefully Schmidt will address this. I heard that when he first moved to Leinster he started reading up on Irish history to get an insight into what makes us tick. So maybe he'll crack this conundrum. Either way his tactical astuteness alone may turn what were narrow defeats into narrow victories.

Feckless Rogue wrote:The provinces nearly always do well though. So they're not doing anything differently. For Ireland, it is a new dawn, because the Kidney era is over and the Schmidt era has started. I don't think the provinces can do any more.

I think one of the reasons they haven't played as well in green recently was that many of the squad were not at ease with the style of rugby they were being asked to play. And belief and even desire seemed to drain out of them the longer Kidney and Smal stayed in charge. When Deccie's head was on the block some players publicly backed him. Others notably did not.

I also think that maybe the provincial loyalties are too strong, and they're not fully comfortable with each other when they come together. Hopefully Schmidt will address this. I heard that when he first moved to Leinster he started reading up on Irish history to get an insight into what makes us tick. So maybe he'll crack this conundrum. Either way his tactical astuteness alone may turn what were narrow defeats into narrow victories.

If he does crack that particular conundrum, then he'll deserve a Nobel Prize of some sort!! We can't even crack ourselves and we know everything there is to be known.

Brennus wrote:I knew Leinster had it in them to perform this weekend due to them having the majority of players in the international team that lost to New Zealand but I never would've expected 4 victories and those scorelines. Irish rugby is in a healthy state at the moment but only time will tell if this can be regarded as a new age. I'd love if it were the case but too many times have I seen Ireland not follow up a great performance with another.

Probably some of the players outside of Leinster at the other provinces (especially Connacht players) are well peed off for being ignored for the November internationals.

POC & POM had relatively quiet games today.

SecretFly wrote:
If he does crack that particular conundrum, then he'll deserve a Nobel Prize of some sort!!  We can't even crack ourselves and we know everything there is to be known.

Well, in recent rugby history, the Munster players being ignored in favour of Leinster players, drove them on to achieve so much.

Beating Toulouse down there could be a turning point for Connacht. It was for Munster back in 2000 and possibly Leinster in 2006.

4 swallows you know? We'll enjoy this weekend. Have to wait and see about everything else- we've all seen a few too many false dawns.

Sin é wrote:

Brennus wrote:I knew Leinster had it in them to perform this weekend due to them having the majority of players in the international team that lost to New Zealand but I never would've expected 4 victories and those scorelines. Irish rugby is in a healthy state at the moment but only time will tell if this can be regarded as a new age. I'd love if it were the case but too many times have I seen Ireland not follow up a great performance with another.

Probably some of the players outside of Leinster at the other provinces (especially Connacht players)  are well peed off for being ignored for the November internationals.

POC & POM had relatively quiet games today.

Not expending energy needlessly? They more than most know that HEC is long and attritional.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
If he does crack that particular conundrum, then he'll deserve a Nobel Prize of some sort!!  We can't even crack ourselves and we know everything there is to be known.

Well, in recent rugby history, the Munster players being ignored in favour of Leinster players, drove them on to achieve so much.

Beating Toulouse down there could be a turning point for Connacht. It was for Munster back in 2000 and possibly Leinster in 2006.

I thought the very same thing. I thought - this actually has the potential to be more than just a one off big game and it could be the beginning of something really special in the development of Connacht as a side that believes in itself - like Munster - like Leinster.

But I still think thy'll need a few tweaks player-wise to make the good stuff more frequent.

Any new dawn isn't going to be seismic - epic - absolute dream stuff.  Nope, the new dawn will be simply seeing the provinces continue to fight hard in Europe.  Nobody is saying which of them will do anything worthwhile this year or indeed if any of them do - but fighting hard with good direct aggressive rugby is the continuing plus.  Making other sides play their best and punishing them if they don't, that's not a new dawn for the Provinces but it's nice to see t continuing into this season too - for now!

Then on to International - any new dawn will be measured and will take time.  But a consistent level of 80minute intensity will certainly be the beginning that will signal we're on the right track.  The players can play, we have the players - getting them to play their best brand of rugby more often will be a new dawn of sorts.  Then on from there to making the new philosophy pay dividends in the results.

I thought O Connell performed very well today, espeically at the breakdown. Set pieces were bad but that was due to Varley. Fla he ain't.

as a quick meaningless comparison of how well the irish did this weekend.

The English won 4 out of 6 with the total score being; 151 for and 106 against.

If we had two more Provinces we could do a real tally on the comparisons, nathan

Hmmm, I have often played with the idea of dividing Leinster, Munster and Ulster in two - a North Leinster and a South Leinster etc.....  must ring the IRFU and put it to them.

SecretFly wrote:If we had two more Provinces we could do a real tally on the comparisons, nathan

Hmmm, I have often played with the idea of dividing Leinster, Munster and Ulster in two - a North Leinster and a South Leinster etc.....  must ring the IRFU and put it to them.

I could take out the two losing English teams  

Still think the irish would of had better results.

How about the medieval boundaries:

Tír Connell
Tír Eoghan
Ulster
Oriel
Connacht
Breifne
Dublin
Kildare
Leinster
Ossory
Ormond
Thomond
Desmond

 

Brennus wrote:How about the medieval boundaries:

Tír Connell
Tír Eoghan
Ulster
Oriel
Connacht
Breifne
Dublin
Kildare
Leinster
Ossory
Ormond
Thomond
Desmond

Good one!  Now THAT is a Celtic League!

Or we could just at Meath as the fifth cúige. ;-)

Regions?

Just started thinking about a good IQ team from the weekends games that didn't feature in the NZ squad

Kilcoyne
Herring
White (soon)
Tuohy
DOC
Ruddock
Heenan (in 2 years)/Dougall
Diack
Marmion
Jackson
Earls
Marshall
Cave
Trimble
Henshaw

Considering there are injured as well that's not bad

You could add Payne in 1 year to that as well
Wilson also as an 8

And Rodney Ah You very very soon  

Ineffable wrote:Someone (probably several people) said it earlier this weekend - that nearly-result against NZ seems to have injected something into the Irish regions. Will it transfer into next week too? Into the 6 nations? With Scotland up first at home you have to think on this form along with Joe Schmidt they will easily put them away and that would be good momentum Is this genuinely a new dawn for Irish rugby?

Err provinces, not regions....

I think there was a lot of excitement with Joe Schmidt coming in as coach and there was likely a collective grown around the country after the  Australia game that the rot was going to continue - the realisation that we simply weren't good enough.

So yeah I think that NZ performance was a watershed moment, even though we lost and a crossroads moment... that we either draw a line in the sand go up or go down.

In terms of the weekends performances we need to draw a distinction between Munster and Ulster who did the business but need to do better, Leinster who produced one of their best ever European performances and Connacht who had one of the great wins ever by an Irish side, an historic victory.

The thing they all had in common though was the energy, enthusiasm and commitment that was so evident in that NZ performance - with so many players looking sharp and hungry, young and old....BOD, Cave, Marmion, Marshall, Fitzgerald, Touhy, Earls, Kearney, Dougal, Toner, D'arcy, Heaslip, Reddan, Ross, Ruddock - many players giving seasons, some career, best performances.

It's too early to say how things will go in the 6N or even next week's rounds but for me the last few weeks have breathed new life into Irish rugby, it's great to feel positive again.

rodders wrote: It's too early to say how things will go in the 6N or even next week's rounds but for me the last few weeks have breathed new life into Irish rugby, it's great to feel positive again.

Definitely agree with this. There seems to be something special building in and around the provinces and national side. I am not going to get too excited as yet but do feel that there is a lot to feel positive about.

The only downer is how bad things are looking for Sexton and racing metro - man what a bum move he made.

Forgot to mention Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan above - two more very assured European performances under these guys belts as well.

Sexton going to Racing Metro never seemed to be a good idea to me. I think that he will suffer from the move and be overtaken by Paddy and Madigan in the near future.

Hopefully Sean O'Brien has taken note....

and Ryan..and Murray...and Heaslip

Perish the thought...

There is still a while to go before either the young lads get near sexton. Joe built his attack at Leinster around him and he will be loyal to that. He does know exactly whathe can produce. Same reason he picked D'arcy when most wanted Marshall. 

What i would say is that the two young lads (especially Jackson) look ready if sexton isn't in shape coming into the Ireland camp. Even fanning was commenting he looks like a test 10 now

Do you think it wise the IRFU state that only those contracted in Ireland can be selected for Ireland from now, with those who are contracted elsewhere getting a reprieve until their current contracts expire?

irish teams the polar opposite of Scottish teams

one over performing the other as always, under  

Another things to mention:

Leinster started the match with 15 Irish qualified players.

There were 3 outstanding second row performances - not including O'Connell - Touhy, Toner and McCarthy - with Hendo and Ryan still out.

Minus Bowe, Zebo and McFadden - 6 tries scored by Irish international wingers - (Fitzgerald (3), Trimble (1), Earls (2))

Some Irish Players missing this weekend - Tommy Bowe, Rory Best, Chris Henry, Ian Henderson, Isaac Boss, Fergus McFadden, Donnacha Ryan, Stephen Ferris, Kevin McLauglin, Declan Fitzpatrick, Simon Zebo, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy(?)....

So no excuses come the 6N - lets get a balanced squad and the best 23 out there each week.

Was Fitz not benching for us?

he was he came on second half didn't he?

Oops sorry.

Great results for all the Irish teams. Leinster/Munster and Ulster were all favourites for their matches I would have thought anyway - but all pulled out big performances.
Connaught - Are such grafters and always get stuck in. That is a fantastic result for them and a massive scalp.

I am not sure how much of this is reflected in the National performance though! The Irish have shown that when they have a mind to they can play at a level that few teams can live with - but those performances are rare. Looking at the Oz match in AI's. Munster/Leinster/Ulster have much more consistency and are constantly performing at that high level.

I think if anything its the provinces having a positive impact on the national side rather than the other way around.

Yes - Provinces are certainly not being led anywhere by International performances (even the NZ one)  They've always been good in HEC anyway(three of them) and it just so happens they all fired on the same weekend (four of them!).  

So it could simply be coincidence.  That's certainly a possibility. But I think it's more just the extra bounce of having much more to fight for now - HEC placements - yes of course; but also the competition for those International places.  

If Schmidt made anything clear during the AI window it was that he expects his players to earn their spots, he expects them to be prepared for the tempo he wants to set for Ireland, and he'll ruthlessly select and drop without much emotion shown if he thinks a different player slots better into any given position.

So two things - everyone is on their toes because they know they have to be.  But also, everyone is on their toes because they are energised by the prospects of playing International in the way Schmidt wants to.  They want to be part of it again (International) and I reckon it's 'hands up' time around all Provinces.

Only cautionary note is that Schmidt doesn't want passion and breathlessness for passion and breathlessnesses sake - he wants it to be boringly repeatable in a technical way.  

So how long can Irish players play such high tempo stuff so that it becomes a habit?  That's still a major question and that's the only true question Schmidt will want answered.

Well yes I think that's true fly - on the individual level I think people feel there is an opportunity for selection but also that playing for Ireland means something again.

Not that it ever wasn't but there were rumblings of discontent about the style of play, lack of passion etc. for a while.

Lastly I think the last few years have brought a few demons into our top players heads, which may have filtered down that maybe they can't compete with the worlds best.

The old soundbites about needing to click and having a big performance in them were starting to sound like a broken record.

I think that first 50min against NZ reminded a few players how good they could be, and maybe that confidence has found its way down to the provinces.

That loss could have broken some players but instead guys have returned to their provinces full of hunger and energy...maybe a coincidence though, but that finish to the Connacht's game was eerlly similar to Irelands with the ABs.

Honestly though that was a special weekend off the back of one of Irelands best ever displays.

I haven't felt this positive about things since just before the 2007 RWC....

rodders wrote:

That loss could have broken some players but instead guys have returned to their provinces full of hunger and energy...maybe a coincidence though, but that finish to the Connacht's game was eerlly similar to Irelands with the ABs.

Funny you should say that because that was another point I was thinking about after the Connacht game but didn't want to mention it because it's kinda sacrilegious in rugby terms to even think it .  

But I feel Schmidt might be involving himself in a few phone calls or casual meetings with Provincial coaches and offering snippits of advice - just as chat of course   - nothing official.  

But I think he might be on to Lam during the week too - or Lam might just seek a casual chat - nothing official! - with him.  Just some tet-a-tets on formations and some technical ideas that might help the lads along a little.  

He's there - he has no practical job to do when the guys are with their Provinces. He won't get in the way of course or impose himself.  But he's a talker and he's absolutely addicted to the practical side of his job.  So I'd say he's lurking on the end of phone lines during these weeks.

rodders wrote:Honestly though that was a special weekend off the back of one of Irelands best ever displays.

I haven't felt this positive about things since just before the 2007 RWC....  

I don't want to even say I feel the same way - yet.  

I've just felt the up-mood far too often in the past and had it dropped into a sewer with a few more shoddy performances.  So I'd like to talk hope and positivity but I'm still very much in my guarded stage.  

I don't want fireworks come the Six Nations.  If I see them I'll be over the moon!  But I just want positive, determined, attacking and creative rugby played in all five games - against any class of opposition.  If the opposition are good, we meet the challenge for 80 minutes.  If the opposition prove bad, we kill them off through 80 furious minutes.  If I see that - that is a genuine movement to better habits - and on that foundation we truly have something to work with.

I seem to recall a weekend last year where the French teams had brilliant success too. The following 6 nations was then their worst in the pro era. It's great to see this but unfortunately it doesn't show how the national side will fare. Not that we Irish are pessimistic or anything.

Yeah fly I've seen enough false dawns too - none of this means anything in terms of the 6N, let alone next weeks pool matches but you know off the back of the AI's there were some excellent performances.

Sometimes I think recently some Irish players have used their province as a bit of a comfort blanket for things not going right for Ireland, as have the supporters - I didn't get that feeling this weekend, I think there has been a general uplift in mood and enthusiasm across the board.

There's a lot to work on but something to build on, finally.

The Irish are cleaning up hey.

    

That was a magnificent weekend for the Provinces. No ifs. No buts.

Just feicin' magnificent.    

We're Irish. We've already moved on to the tragedy of next weekend in our minds

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

That loss could have broken some players but instead guys have returned to their provinces full of hunger and energy...maybe a coincidence though, but that finish to the Connacht's game was eerlly similar to Irelands with the ABs.

Funny you should say that because that was another point I was thinking about after the Connacht game but didn't want to mention it because it's kinda sacrilegious in rugby terms to even think it .  

But I feel Schmidt might be involving himself in a few phone calls or casual meetings with Provincial coaches and offering snippits of advice - just as chat of course   - nothing official.  

But I think he might be on to Lam during the week too - or Lam might just seek a casual chat - nothing official! - with him.  Just some tet-a-tets on formations and some technical ideas that might help the lads along a little.  

He's there - he has no practical job to do when the guys are with their Provinces.  He won't get in the way of course or impose himself.  But he's a talker and he's absolutely addicted to the practical side of his job.  So I'd say he's lurking on the end of phone lines during these weeks.

Absolute nonsense. There is no way Joe Schmidt is phoning Rob Penney, Pat Lam or Anscombe to offer advice. I doubt if he would even 'advise' Matt O'Connor.

Far more likely that players like Darren Cave are really peed off that they were ignored for the AIs and have a point to prove.