Israel Folau Better Than Jason Robinson

Wendell Sailor says Israel Folau is better than Jason Robinson, Matt Rogers, Himself and Sonny Bill Williams and is hence the greatest dual-code international ever.
 
Some claim.  Is he right?
 
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9551410/Israel-Folau-to-be-better-than-SBW-says-Sailor

Saw this previously.

Too early to tell how good Folau will be.

I wonder where he puts Jonathan Davies in that assessment?

Usual misquoting by greyghost.

He actually says:

"Jason Robinson, Sonny Bill has been good, but I think he can nearly be better than all of those guys. He's only 24 or 25 or something. He can probably go to a whole new level."

"nearly" and "probably" being the key words here

Two words.......Brad Thorn

Hard to disagree with that.

More daft headline reading and more claims of arrogance. Guess you can get away with it though if you aren't Welsh. I mean it was claimed that world class players like Leigh Halfpenny and George North were as good, if not, better than Israel Folau and there was the usual anti-welsh uproar on here.

Andy Farrell was better than all of 'em.

Not sure that was anti-Welsh as pro-common sense?

Aren't Halfpenny and North as good? Clearly so, but it's arrogant to think that if you're Welsh. Pro-common sense to me is Wayne Barnes putting in a good shift like he did in 2007.

I'd agree he has the potential to be better than them. Started off his Union career very well although I didn't see any of his league. A lot of things can happen though so you do need a bit of luck along the way.

Your getting beyond paranoia now Saint. Agree with 7&1/2..

How do we know that Folau is or going be better than them players hes compared two, this could be a one off season where he's unplayable and next season he could just become another wendell sailor waste of time in my eyes one good season then off taking drugs and under performing

Same was said of Chris Ashton when he scored 6 tries in two games in his second 6 nations. His career has fizzled out quite a bit since then. Granted he hasnt played much this year (?) but didnt score many tries in 2012.

Breadvan wrote:Your getting beyond paranoia now Saint. Agree with 7&1/2..

The article is still available on here and isn't that old if you care to read it. Evidence is clear as day.

The Saint wrote:Aren't Halfpenny and North as good? Clearly so, but it's arrogant to think that if you're Welsh. Pro-common sense to me is Wayne Barnes putting in a good shift like he did in 2007.

Saint.

Have Halfpenny and North ever played rugby League? I don't think so.

I personally think Jason Robinson would have blown folau off the feild but that's a personal opinion like I believe Shane williams is one of of not the greatest winger of all time but other peoples opinions and views will be different. I just think Saillor is looking for the public to respond b

This another example of Dell being Dell.

majesticimperialman wrote:

The Saint wrote:Aren't Halfpenny and North as good? Clearly so, but it's arrogant to think that if you're Welsh. Pro-common sense to me is Wayne Barnes putting in a good shift like he did in 2007.

Saint.

Have Halfpenny and North ever played rugby League? I don't think so.

Nobody said they did, especially not me. I was referring to another article posted just before the latest Wales versus Australia fixture, as that article has similarities with this one. I think it was quite clear to everyone (bar you) that I wasn't suggesting North or Halfpenny played RL, so this leads us to ask; why are you so incredibly dull?

The Saint wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

The Saint wrote:Aren't Halfpenny and North as good? Clearly so, but it's arrogant to think that if you're Welsh. Pro-common sense to me is Wayne Barnes putting in a good shift like he did in 2007.

Saint.

Have Halfpenny and North ever played rugby League? I don't think so.

Nobody said they did, especially not me. I was referring to another article posted just before the latest Wales versus Australia fixture, as that article has similarities with this one. I think it was quite clear to everyone (bar you) that I wasn't suggesting North or Halfpenny played RL, so this leads us to ask; why are you so incredibly dull?

Saint might I respectfully suggest that if you are going to refer to another article that isnt the subject of the thread that you post that article rather than labling people as dull?

Come on laurie it's madge we're talking about.

The Saint wrote:Come on laurie it's madge we're talking about.

What is that suppose to mean then? eh, this post is nothing to do with Wales is it Saint? But you all ways like to bring Welsh players in to some thing that does not contain any think about them. If any one is dull here it is you, for posting on the wrong thread.

Happy new year any way.

Robinson and Thorn would be the best converts wouldn't they?  Mentioning SBW and Rodgers is a bit laughable. Dell is a bit of a joker though (campo-lite).

ebop wrote:Robinson and Thorn would be the best converts wouldn't they?  Mentioning SBW and Rodgers is a bit laughable. Dell is a bit of a joker though (campo-lite).

Would SBW not be up there as well ebop? In terms of achievements he can't be miles away?

Yeah you're probably right Hood, my post was maybe a little harsh on SBW and Wendell. My rationale was that Robinson and Thorn were key players whilst SBW a bit-part AB. Folau was a brilliant league player so he 'could' be one of the better converts. He'll get the game time to learn his craft and he's on the wing. Just did a bit of a flip flop. Can't wait to see a bit more of Folau.

what more does SBW need to do on the rugby side to be a great dual international? Another super comp or is it more international stuff?

Stick around a bit longer and establish himself as a key player I would say.

SBW needs to stop chopping and changing codes every two minutes whenever a WC comes along. IS it true he's said he wants to play in the Olympic 7's? Or is that just media rubbish.

Folau looks very special. He needs a few seasons of consistancy first before he can be put in Jason Robinsons league.

No way should SBW be considered, like other posters have said he has never been guareented a starting berth for the all backs being behind Nonu-Smith. He is an all blacks super sub, who has really only made a name for himself at club level. If SBW had stuck with union he had the potential to be competing for a greatest all time centre berth let alone league convert, but he didn't so his legacy in all his many sports wont amount to much.

Robinson was a nailed on starter who has a ridiculous highlight reel of lions and england tries that begger belief. Thorn was an absolute beast who has won everything out there and was a man to build a pack around in every team he played in.

Folau has transitioned quicker than anyone else i can remember but he hasn't won anything yet and its very early days !

SBW has acheieved as much if not more than Jason Robinson did. Don't be fooled by the short time in which he has achieved it, this is merely a reinforcement of his class.

Sirtidychris I think you're forgetting that SBW was used as a wing option in the RWC by NZ, starting ahead of the encumbents at the time.

Personally I think Robinson was a better player than SBW and achieved more. I do think that both Rodgers and SBW made a big impact in union too when they made the switch though.

I cant really comment on the others - but one of the best things about Billy Whizz was the level of commitment he showed. He always gave everything he had on the pitch. He was also a leader who captained England. He wasnt just a 'highlights' player, even if the highlights could really be something.

He wasnt a great captain in all fairness. Mind you England were dreadful when he was captain so it wasnt really his fault.

GloriousEmpire wrote:SBW has acheieved as much if not more than Jason Robinson did. Don't be fooled by the short time in which he has achieved it, this is merely a reinforcement of his class.

Sirtidychris I think you're forgetting that SBW was used as a wing option in the RWC by NZ, starting ahead of the encumbents at the time.

Sure SBW has some trophyware, but my point is that can you be considered as one of the best ever when you play two seasons of top rugby and dont even nail down a starting shirt for your national team. I remember that SBW played on the wing in the pool stages, but i also remember that Richard Kahui and Cory Jane were preffered on the wings to start the semi final and the final; in the semi final SBW played 8 minutes, in the final he played 4 minutes ! (hardly a vital man). There is no doubt that SBW had the potential to be the best ( i agree his skills and impact were immense) but surely a measure of success is also longevity, Robinson over 7 years played two lions tours and two world cups and in his prime was a guarenteed starter, he also scored vital tries that helped his team to victory in the RWC final and first lions test in 2001, If SBW got injured in the RWC group stages it would have made no difference to the all blacks final outcome, apart from someone else would have had to warm the bench.

GunsGerms wrote:Personally I think Robinson was a better player than SBW and achieved more. I do think that both Rodgers and SBW made a big impact in union too when they made the switch though.

+ 1. You can also add Andy Farrell to that list, better than Folau and SBW.

Don't confuse Robinson playing more minutes, with achieving more. SBW is possibly twice the player Robinson ever was. Robinson just not versatile enough to switch back to league, make a final, then switch back to rugby.

SBW ain't no one man team. Just because he happened to be playing in a good ABs team and a good Chiefs team doesn't make him god's gift to rugby. He just a cog and not even that vital a one when you consider some of the players around him. No point in mentioning the Kiwi's to big him up, they got their arses handed to them by the Kangaroo's as per usual.

Funny how the teams he plays for turn out to be good teams isn't it?

Well if you play rugby in either Aus or NZ then it's an extremely high likelihood that they'll be good teams. I don't think that's funny.

If a player is in a good team that wins a world cup I can never get why they say "He's the best in the world because he won a RWC." Surely it was the team that won the world cup?   

Look at the improvement in the chiefs when SBW joined. Coincidence?

Rennie.

No doubt SBW is a good player and helped out, credit can go to a hell of a lot of players in that team. SBW is a great athlete with exponential levels of confidence, which is why he is good across multiple sports.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Funny how the teams he plays for turn out to be good teams isn't it?

No. The best teams attract the best players partly because they are usually the ones with the most money.

No player on his own makes a poor team good - especially not a back and in SBW's case a sub.

SBW has never been the incumbent in his position as an AB so his comparison with Robinson, a regular when it comes to world best rugby lists is misplaced. He hasnt played enough at the top level. He may compare more favourably from 2015 but at this point league is his best game. He has a lot to do in a short time. And in his absence nonu has thrived, has added more confidence and variation to his game that sbw is now clearly the second for 12 at best.

Folau needs time to find his feet and more importantly ground himself in union.        One gets the feeling that he might jump ship back to league if things go wrong in rugby, not that thats likely but the number of players that go from hero to zero in oz...Beale, cooper, joc, genia, etc for different reasons, is perhaps a concern. Plus folaus defensive efforts aren't top notch and it doesn't look like he enjoys that part of the game and could get shown up if targeted by say the ABs or boks more.

Taylorman,

Whilst defence is a huge area...if you have someone of Folau's ability and Lomu esque ability to get beyond not just one but 3/4 players, then would you not try to make allowances for his defensive issues within your tactics?

Absolutely. which is why the jury is out on that one. difference between folaus and lomus defensive work was attitude. lomu did his very best on defence where folau almost looks disinterested. either that or he just hasn't mastered the defensive requirements. he could...but it doesn't seem to be a strong point. question is then how much of a liability could it be.