Jason Robinson

Bored at work and found myself watching this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BGwIsEFaX0 .

What would England and the Lions give to have this guy back on the wing!

What do people reckon, would be as effective in the modern proffesional game?

Yes he would, could change direction at pace and could actually run sideways.Exceptional talent and one of the few who could bring his league skills to bear in the real game.

He could sure turn the speed on when he needed to.

I know we say it so often but add Greenwood to the exact same bracket. That floated ball to Robinson around the 40 second mark in that video is fantastic to watch.

Would get a game for just about any side in any era. The most devastating acceleration from a standing start that I've ever seen in a rugby player.

Agreed. Decent under the high ball and always a threat running from deep. Englands wings are generally now selected with his skill set but without anywhere near the impact he had on the game. Maybe he wouldnt come across as much broken field play, space, immobile forwards and powder puff tackles as he did 10 years ago but its still hard to imagine any of the current England crop beating him in a dance off. Absolute legend.

Hated him at full back mind.

Tiger/Chief wrote:
What do people reckon, would be as effective in the modern proffesional game?

Yes. Great player - total one off. Even in the modern era of watertight defences and analysis that explosive acceleration and dancing feet would still cause lots of problems.

Send the link to Steve Hansen.

I loved him at full back, was easily Englands best player at the 07 world cup which granted wasn't difficult but he was more than decent under the high ball and the most devastating person to have running the ball back at you.

Robinson and Williams are too wingers the game has missed since they retired, they may have been smaller than the current lot but the side steps and change of pace is something we don't see any more.

Most wingers are most prolific in their early days as they have less injuries and loads more pace... yet Robinson didn't start playing union properly until the 2000/01 season when he was already 27.

Still managed 50 odd caps and 30+ tries for England and the Lions. Given he was in the GB league side aged 19 I don't doubt for a second had he started in union he would have been the world's highest try scorer without a shadow of doubt.

Then again you could probably say the same about Lomu had he not had defunct kidneys from his early 20s onwards.

Just got to be thankful we saw them at all to be fair.

Those 2 for me are standout the best wingers of the pro era and will be for an awful long time.

Most wingers are most prolific in their early days as they have less injuries and loads more pace... yet Robinson didn't start playing union properly until the 2000/01 season when he was already 27.

Still managed 50 odd caps and 30+ tries for England and the Lions. Given he was in the GB league side aged 19 I don't doubt for a second had he started in union he would have been the world's highest try scorer without a shadow of doubt.

Then again you could probably say the same about Lomu had he not had defunct kidneys from his early 20s onwards.

Just got to be thankful we saw them at all to be fair.

Those 2 for me are standout the best wingers of the pro era and will be for an awful long time.

Well towards the end of his time he was already getting blocked off and broken down by improving defence systems.  
So I think he'd have the same problems as all the pacy stepping players can have in today's game with so little true space to work with.  
He'd score a packet against lesser sides, but he'd have his modern issues with modern top sides closing him down and frustrating his providers.

SecretFly wrote:Well towards the end of his time he was already getting blocked off and broken down by improving defence systems.  
So I think he'd have the same problems as all the pacy stepping players can have in today's game with so little true space to work with.  
He'd score a packet against lesser sides, but he'd have his modern issues with modern top sides closing him down and frustrating his providers.

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well towards the end of his time he was already getting blocked off and broken down by improving defence systems.  
So I think he'd have the same problems as all the pacy stepping players can have in today's game with so little true space to work with.  
He'd score a packet against lesser sides, but he'd have his modern issues with modern top sides closing him down and frustrating his providers.

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

Unfortunately I saw it done more than once towards his end. He would often be caught in that space where the side-step happens in the same space - at a standstill as it were - and there was no opening, the defenders were there waiting to take him down. Fitter, faster themselves with better training, and more scientifically organised to frustrate players like him.

So yes, a killer side-step will still take you past defenders and score tries - but it's tougher to do repeatedly - especially when two really good sides meet. It's harder work.

My favourite back of all time, absolutley devastating with ball in hand.

The game hasn't changed that much imo, Robinson would be amazing in any era.

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well towards the end of his time he was already getting blocked off and broken down by improving defence systems.  
So I think he'd have the same problems as all the pacy stepping players can have in today's game with so little true space to work with.  
He'd score a packet against lesser sides, but he'd have his modern issues with modern top sides closing him down and frustrating his providers.

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

Unfortunately I saw it done more than once towards his end.  He would often be caught in that space where the side-step happens in the same space - at a standstill as it were - and there was no opening, the defenders were there waiting to take him down.  Fitter, faster themselves with better training, and more scientifically organised to frustrate players like him.

So yes, a killer side-step will still take you past defenders and score tries - but it's tougher to do repeatedly - especially when two really good sides meet.  It's harder work.  

Shane Williams was similar to Robinson but was pretty prolific up until his retirement in what 2011? But yeah, certainly defences would have had a more scientific approach to combating players such as his than before.

I thought Cristian Wade was....the "new Robinson"....

I actually think Shane.......................... was..................................... sorry folks...................................... better at the evasion game.

Only my opinion. He was a hard to catch bastard.............. Even when you had him! It was only a mirage, the real guy was already celebrating.

Not much between them for buzz but Shane nicks it for me.

His last try in his last game with seconds on the clock. Still looked pretty good for a 33/34 year old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO1lAuSwgGE&sns=em

Yes SF, he did lose a bit of whizz towards the end of his career but he was almost unplayable at his peak. Only CauCau springs to mind of a similar ilk.

SecretFly wrote:I actually think Shane.......................... was..................................... sorry folks...................................... better at the evasion game.

Only my opinion.  He was a hard to catch bastard.............. Even when you had him!  It was only a mirage, the real guy was already celebrating.

Not much between them for buzz but Shane nicks it for me.

In some ways I would agree with you... I think potentially Shane had more talent and was certainly faster... but I think Robinson was a big game player and I would always take big game lesser players of more talented ones with less clutch proficiency.

I think they were different types of players tbh. Williams was very hard to get hold of and could step at will, certainly more evasive as you say.

Robinson I would describe as more explosive/electric in his style. Everything was done at full speed and he was extremely powerful for a small guy.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:His last try in his last game with seconds on the clock. Still looked pretty good for a 33/34 year old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO1lAuSwgGE&sns=em

Yes SF, he did lose a bit of whizz towards the end of his career but he was almost unplayable at his peak. Only CauCau springs to mind of a similar ilk.

Had never seen that before, a model for how to retire. Watching Ireland/England in the early '00s he was always the back I was most afraid of. But I agree with Fly, one watch's some very promising twinkle toe players like Gilroy carve up defences at provincial level, and running into walls at test level. Defenses at the top level are too good for a player like Robinson to have the impact he had back then.

Other than being a biased Englishman one big reason why I rate him more than Shane is the fact that he seldom if ever drifted out of games the way that Shane could. He was always trying to make things happen.

fa0019 wrote:

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

Not a patch on Gerald Davies, Phill Bennet or Cliff Morgan. Probably heard of them but they were before your time. More recently David Campese, Thomas Castienede, Rico Gear were better steppers but the best in the pro era by a mile was Shane Williams.

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

Not a patch on Gerald Davies, Phill Bennet or Cliff Morgan. Probably heard of them but they were before your time. More recently David Campese, Thomas Castienede, Rico Gear were better steppers but the best in the pro era by a mile was Shane Williams.

No mention of David Duckham? but then you do have your prejudices

Dai Duckham

lostinwales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Can't defend against a killer step though and his was the best in the business.

Not a patch on Gerald Davies, Phill Bennet or Cliff Morgan. Probably heard of them but they were before your time. More recently David Campese, Thomas Castienede, Rico Gear were better steppers but the best in the pro era by a mile was Shane Williams.

No mention of David Duckham? but then you do have your prejudices

Maybe that's something you both have in common.

Another England v Wales bickering thread....deep joy

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Another England v Wales bickering thread....deep joy

Makes a change from the more recent Wales v Ireland bickering threads.

And I guess the Wales v Scotland

I see a trend...