Hulk Hogan - Where does he rank in the greats?

As the WWE Network launched itself on Raw at the end of February, one Hulk Hogan returned to WWE and announced he was to be host of Wrestlemania 30 this April.

Since then, Hulk has been on the media tour road, appearing on all kinds of shows and his face plastered on newspapers and websites.

It got me (and incidentally old CrippledTart too) thinking about what his place was when listed against the greats in professional wrestling history. When you speak of the Greatest of All Time, where does Hogan rank?

A man who drew bags of money, was globally popular, made arguably the biggest heel turn of all time and remains uniquely popular.

For every greatly remembered rivalry, there is something negative to talk of. But really, how do you compare anyone to Hulk Hogan?

[Now for the plug: Listen at http://v2wrestling.podomatic.com/entry/2014-02-27T11_45_59-08_00 for Tart and I discussing this]

Hogan is #1.

I say that as a Warrior mark, and as a fan who preferred a fair few wrestlers to Hogan during his late 80's heyday. The only thing that has come close to Hogan is Austin. Not Warrior, not Savage, not Flair, not Sting, not Hart, not Michaels, not The Rock, and certainly nothing WWE has produced since the buy-out of WCW.

There's an old question that's been asked for years: did the WWF make Hogan, or did Hogan make the WWF? Whatever anyone's answer to that is, he is the only wrestler in the history of sports entertainment that can put forward a decent argument to being bigger than the sport.

Hogan was hot as hell in the AWA and was getting insane reactions long before Vince recruited him to be the Golden boy of the Golden generation so I definitely don't think the WWF made him, what they did do though was give him the biggest platform to perform on.

it was a marriage made in Heaven, I was never a Hogan fan but I do think he's in the top 2, I'm unsure if Austin overtakes him or not, the business WWF did with Hogan at the top allowed them to become the most famous Wrestling organisation in the World but with Austin at the helm he had to be apart of something special that allowed the WWF to re-take control of the Wrestling business.

I think the fact that more people were 'smart' in Austin's day yet still broke all the records Hogan set might just see him shade it but you can look at it both ways, Austin's blood soaked image is as iconic as the Hogan Andre stand off or the Hogan/Warrior test of strength

Yet, in most peoples personal "Greatest" lists, I would be surprised if he made very many top 10s on this website. Gav would argue Flair, I think KF's favourite may be Macho Man etc.

Considering a Greatest of all Time list doesnt have to be just "he did business" focused, does he live well in the memory banks all things considered?

Good topic. How do you define greatness within wrestling. In my opinion, being a draw is one part of the puzzle, as well as in-ring work, and being good on the mic and longevity. Hogan's the number one draw in pro wrestling, and could be great on the mic, but I was never a fan of watching him wrestle. As an overall package, I'd rate both Austin and Flair above him.

One of my definitions would be what I call the "tea and scones factor". The middle-aged woman that likes to lunch. People that have never ever ever watched wrestling and never will. If they've heard of someone, then that person is huge. Hulk Hogan falls into that bracket, much like Babe Ruth, Muhammed Ali and Michael Jordan for their respective sports. Who else does? Austin... maybe.

Being the most well known person doesn't make you the best though does it? See David Beckham for one example.
I would also argue that nowdays possibly more people are aware of the Rock than Hulk Hogan.

Yeah but The Rock is getting known as a movie star rather than a wrestler much like Arnold Schwarzenegger did after bodybuilding. Wrestling, being entertainment rather than sport, makes it much less black n white when defining greatness. It takes more than just pure wrestling ability to get to the top of the card. If it was just that, then Dean Malenko would be everyone's #1.

Yeah and I would say one of the main definitions of being the best ever would be being a good wrestler. And lets face it Hogan is no where near the best at that.
Biggest draw and best known maybe. Best ever, no.

Maybe it's me being pedantic; I'm defining greatness as being different to the best. Hulk Hogan is not the best to ever step in the ring, but he is the greatest.

Not really following. Its like saying Beckham isn't the best to ever pull on an England shirt, but he is the greatest. Because he's globally known, popular and a big draw?

I do understand wrestling is different in that respect but using your Dean Malenko example surely the greatest needs to be the overall package. Part Hogan + part Malenko = ?

Flair?

That is who I was thinking. But didn't want to commit!

MIG wrote:Not really following.  Its like saying Beckham isn't the best to ever pull on an England shirt, but he is the greatest.  Because he's globally known, popular and a big draw?

I do understand wrestling is different in that respect but using your Dean Malenko example surely the greatest needs to be the overall package.  Part Hogan + part Malenko = ?

I'm saying we can't define wrestling greatness in the same way as we define greatness in other sports. You couldn't say because Beckham has the look, was pushed to the moon, could deliver a decent after-match promo, had a memorable heel turn in 98 and face turn in 01, played in the biggest teams and was known globally makes him the greatest. It's what happens on the pitch that counts, and he doesn't qualify. Wrestling is the opposite of that.

If you asked any non-wrestling fan to name a wrestler the top 2 answers would be Hulk Hogan and The Rock. They are the 2 most globally recognised wrestlers of all time, no question. Are they the 'greatest' of all time? That all depends on your criteria, but being recognised globally doesn't necessarily make you one of the 'best'. For example Matthew McConnaughy won an Oscar last week for Best Male Actor, does that make him as good an actor as Anthony Hopkins or Al Pacino? Not in a million years.

I'd say Hogan is the most 'successful' wrestler of all time, but not the 'greatest'. If that makes sense.

I'd agree with H on that,he's hit the nail on the head.

I am surprised that nobody has made the comparison to Cena yet.
He's a massive asset to WWE,makes the company look good,is a genuinely nice guy in real life,the kids idolise him and he has a great look.
Does he regularly wow us with his in ring action?no,he has his moments but is generally average.
Is he a demon on the mic?no,he has his moments but is generally above average to good.
Is he the greatest wrestler of this generation?no.
Is he the most successful?yes.

In that regard I think you have Hogan. Successful,a great asset for the company and the fans. But not THE greatest.

Really enjoying the debate though guys,it makes for good reading.

Its very much the problem. If I were to name my top ten of all time, I'd almost feel I have to put Hogan in, rather than want to

Matthew won because Leo diCaprio drives an electric car... Similarly Hogan wins because, nobody cares about Punks departure a week later, but just this morning a mate of mine fresh out of school said "What are you gonna do when my 22-inch pythons run wild on you?" He doesn't even watch wrestling!!

Are we discussing most famous or greatest? Very different criteria for the two categories in my opinion

Most Famous - Biggest cross over, star turn, money draw, iconic name
Greatest - On the mic, in the ring - The package

So... Brock Lesnar (circa 2002)?

Has to be Flair

Could Flair hit a shooting star press?

Onto his own jacket

And he'd blade in mid air

HBK > all

So... Tommy Dreamer?

kingraf wrote:So... Tommy Dreamer?

But in all seriousness. Hogan was not a great in ring performer. Yes he had some great matches but that was because of the occasion (WM against Andre). Flair wrestled night after night all over the world always putting on the highest calibre matches. So for me Hogan most famous, biggest name in wrestling yes. Greatest ever Ric Flair

Olly wrote:HBK > all

In ring ability and showman I would agree. Mic skills not so sure. Unless he's been doing a Batman impression all these years.

HBK, please. He's just a show pony that added to an event rather than ever being the reason to watch an event (WM25 and WM26 excluded). No one tuned in to watch HBK week in week out.

I did actually. He's probably my personal favourite wrestler of all time. I know many others who agree too.

I think what KV means is that HBK was never THE guy like how Hogan, Rock and Austin were THE guy.

Yeah, what Mr H said. I concede I wrote that statement poorly. HBK certainly had longevity, and stole the show on several occasions, but he was never the man. Even on that thread bare roster of the mid 90's, he was still the supporting act.

I think Hogan was extremely underrated in the ring, he was never going to pull off a 5 star match and probably never going to pull off a 4 star match either but he was very sound in the ring and he had something far more important than in ring ability, he had in ring psychology, he had the crowd eating outthe palm of his hand, he knew when to slow it down and he knew went to pick up the pace, he was blessed in that his era was slower and more gullible to what was happening in front of their eyes but he mastered his craft, he got something which I believe was more important tha  5 star matches, his matches got 5 star reactions, a hot crowd beats a hot match 99 times out of a 100 for me.

Hogan was famed for the big no selling comeback which fans got bored off in the early 90s but if you watch a Hogan angle the majority of the time the bad guys looked a million bucks right up until the go home sequence, Hogan understood that the best way to look great is by making his opponents look great, even when he out Warrior over in 1990, probably the only clean job he ever did during his 12-15 year prime, he coached Warrior through it, that was possibly his finest hour. The Ultimate Warrior was another who is underrated, after Saveage and Rude got a hold of him in 89 he was a different guy, if he had someone in there beside him to lead him then he looked great, Hogan could do that, Hogan could lead, leading is normally done by heels but Hogan was so great at manipulating the crowd that he led almost everyone.

Greatest in the ring? Obviously Absolutely Not
Greatest Ever? Possibly

I've already said numerous times that The Ultimate Warrior was my personal greatest ever but I believe Macho Man Randy Savage is, I don't think he was a 10 out of 10 for anything but I think he was no less than an 8 out of 10 at everything

Ooh yeah Kay Fabe.
Well said.

Gavin made very good points in the podcast about WWF building their style, their matches, their promotion around the skills Hogan had. Has any other company ever done it so obviously as WWF did?

Whenever people debate the greatest of all time I rarely hear a name I'm expecting to. How do people rate the Undertaker with regards to say top ten all time?

I'd imagine Undertaker places somewhere between 6-10.

Well for me he does for me anyway.

I think Kayfabe sums Hogan up perfectly.

GOAT for me - although I haven't see enough of Flair in his heyday. Hogan was able to stay at the top of professional wrestling for 20 years. Yes there were some times when fans got sick of his act, but he reinvented himself a few times and his reaction on RAW last Monday was pretty telling.

Kayfabe summed it up perfectly when he said Hogan's opponents looked a million bucks up until the superman comeback which in turn made Hogan look even better. Hogan made you believe he could be beaten, but of course very rarely would.

Compare that to Austin who essentially spent 5 years at the top before retiring (and 1.5 years were spent injured or huffing) or Cena who went stale pretty quickly. The Rock's time at the top was overshadowed by Austin and again was very short. Undertaker, HBK, Bret Hart, Macho Man all had their own uniqueness but were never charatcers to build the company around.

Hogan for me is number one in terms of star power, wrestling fans might have gone off him but he's still going to get people watching when he's on (either to love or hate him!)...the reason he's number one in my opinion is the fact that he's far more than a house hold name because of wrestling...he's a house hold name full stop...saying this, he isn't anywhere near my top 10, top 20 or top 100 wrestlers...I don't really like him but I don't think this should come in to judging where he places in the pantheon of the greats...if we were to do a list judged on star power (not just in wrestling terms) it would probably look like this.

1. Hogan
2. The Rock
3. John Cena
4. Stone Cold
5. Andre?

My own person list would look like this
1. Stone Cold
2. Macho Man
3. CM Punk
4. Goldberg (Due to me marking for him as a kid)
5. Sting (same as Bill)

As a household name I actually think The Undertaker would be more well known in the main stream than Austin, Cena and Andrè

If all the hipsters who wore those Obey t-shirts knew the face on them it would help Andre's cause

I also think Bret might be above Andre too

I missed some obvious ones but I think my point stands, Hogan is the biggest name in wrestling...that doesn't mean he's the best though.

Hogan is only the biggest name in Wrestling when he is associated with the WWE though!

#Controversial

He might disagree, especially when TNA toured and he was on BBC, ITV, made a commercial partnership with Betfair etc etc.

Its very hard to define, cos Hogan used his skills to become the biggest there was and steered the ship to unparalleled success. Could Macho Man, Flair, Austin, Rock, Cena etc been Hogan?

Hogan is a brand in his own right now, WWF may have created that but he clearly had an idea of where he wanted to be...you will have people who don't know wrestling in the slightest but they'll know Hogan and The Rock...that's why for me those two are the biggest by a long way...even Stone Cold will be a mystery to some.

My girlfriend doesn't really like wrestling at all but even she owns a Hogan t-shirt.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He might disagree, especially when TNA toured and he was on BBC, ITV, made a commercial partnership with Betfair etc etc.

Its very hard to define, cos Hogan used his skills to become the biggest there was and steered the ship to unparalleled success. Could Macho Man, Flair, Austin, Rock, Cena etc been Hogan?

all that was missing was a check mate

Even if I make a good point I would never expect to win   

You're spot on though about his promotional work over here when TNA came over, I was talking more from a Wrestling prespective though, I don't think he matters much unless he's associated with the WWE, though just my opinion, maybe im wrong and I'm just judging it on his over exposure in TNA, it did nothing major for the organisation, with WWE though they'll be sure to present him in the right way and make his appearances feel special, like they should be for a man with his history