Is a 50% win ratio good enough for Welsh fans?

Since June Wales's record is Played 10, Won 5, Lost 5, Is that good enough for the reigning 6 Nation champions?

Wins against - Japan, Argentina, Tonga, Italy and France
Defeats against - Aus, SA, Japan, Ireland and England


To keep some of you happier!

Since October Wales's record is Played 8, Won 4, Lost 4, Is that good enough for the reigning 6 Nation champions?

Wins against - Argentina, Tonga, Italy and France
Defeats against - Aus, SA, Ireland and England

  


I know teams go through rough patches now and then but even so with the players they have they should be doing better than a 50% win ratio.
Has Gatland taken this golden generation as far as he can?

This isn't a wind up so please don't take it as such, I just think a team like Wales should be doing better with the players they have. With the RWC getting closer is it time to ring the changes or stick with what you have, which you already know isn't good enough against the big teams?

I doubt many Welsh posters/fans will be looking at this 6 Nations and rubbing their hands with glee.
However losing to the top teams happens - it's why they are top.
I think two 6N grand slams earns Gatland some breathing space surely.
He has lost a few - but (apart from this 6N) he's won the important ones.
Too late for a change in management now in any case.
Gatland can be his own worst enemy. What can be defended as confidence prior to a win looks a lot like arrogance after a loss.

Tough question Scrumpy - no doubt designed to elicit some wonderful rugby insight.  After considerable reflection, I think the best answer is no, it's not good enough.  

Now why not set yourself a challenge and see if you can get close to Gatland's contribution.  Try and make 50% of your posts worthwhile and valuable.  I know that's a long term goal, but have a go…

PS: This is not a wind up either.   

Thanks for your valuble input offload.

Great as ever, but lets not turn this into some it isn't!

As a rugby fan I think its a fair question to ask, if England had a record like this I for one would want to see changes within the coaching set up at least, even if the head coach stayed.

Overall win rate shouldn't be the main concern, we all play teams above and below us in rankings.

It is head to head that should be more important, that is how you know you are better or worse than a team.

For me at least.

I know New Zealand are better than us, no ranking or win rate will tell me that, but head to head is where it is at.

But Bil how many times to you play NZ every year?

the only head to head Wales can go on is vs Japan, which is 50/50!

Scrumpy wrote:But Bil how many times to you play NZ every year?

the only head to head Wales can go on is vs Japan, which is 50/50!

Yeah, but you can't go on one match, I tend to look from one coaching era to the next.

Anyone can win a one off match, for example, if we keep losing to NZ until the world cup, but then beat them in the RWC, we still not better than them.

This is pretty similar to your other thread Scrumpy. Couldn't you just have one big thread where you raise questions about the future of the Welsh national team and examine their record?

Notch wrote:This is pretty similar to your other thread Scrumpy. Couldn't you just have one big thread where you raise questions about the future of the Welsh national team and examine their record?

If I had the time to do it Notch, to be honest I think this is the more in depth thread.

But in truth most of GE threads are the same theme yet I haven't seen a post from yourself saying as such!

Oh I don't know about that...

It was a suggestion, not an order

 

No problem then.

Scrumpy wrote:Since June Wales's record is Played 10, Won 5, Lost 5, Is that good enough for the reigning 6 Nation champions?

Wins against - Japan, Argentina, Tonga, Italy and France
Defeats against - Aus, SA, Japan, Ireland and England

I know teams go through rough patches now and then but even so with the players they have they should be doing better than a 50% win ratio.
Has Gatland taken this golden generation as far as he can?

This isn't a wind up so please don't take it as such, I just think a team like Wales should be doing better with the players they have. With the RWC getting closer is it time to ring the changes or stick with what you have, which you already know isn't good enough against the big teams?

It's funny, but when somebody says that, you know straight away it's a wind up....

Yet another great contribution from Jimpy!


Well done.   

Bilts ...the issue for Wales is that many of the teams they are losing to are those below or that they believe should be below them in the rankings. Its only the big win against France thats perhaps "exceeded expectations" for this season. The summer tour to Japan can be wiped off as an A team fixture, although the loss is still pretty humiliating even without Lions/effort.
SA and Aus can be forgiven as top 3 sides, you expect to lose those. Italy , Tonga they should always be beating.

May be we just look at the 50/50 games for teams Wales should expect to be on a level with ...France England Ireland Argentina. Won 2 lost 2.
50% ...so an average season from that perspective. A loss to a poor Scotland would plunge it into the red mind.

This season is not abnormally bad for Wales, reigning 6 nations chumps or not. It matches their average form over the last decade, and is by no means their worst season in the 6 nations or as a whole.
Obviously any fan would want it to be better.

I would rather have Wales record under Gatland, in it's entirety (with grand Slams of course) than England's in the same period.



Oh and you have forgotten the two wins over Australia in the summer

Wins against - Japan, Argentina, Tonga, Italy and France
Defeats against - Aus, SA, Japan, Ireland and England

So wins against all the Tier 2 sides and a poor France side...and losses against the top Tier 1 sides (and Japan   ) ...

Pretty much shows the true standard of Welsh rugby...maybe we should look at promotion relegation from the 6n...Wales are obviously taking the place of an emerging side like Russia or Georgia...

I think its time that a play off game (for the bottom team) was put in place for teams like Russia and Georgia to have a chance of getting into the 6 Nations, but thats another subject altogether

I thought Gatland was using the Lions tour so that his players would be able to kick on this year and beat the big boys?

One victory out of four matches against Wales.England should be very worried as Wales have clearly been a poor side for some time.Don't panic!

Taffineastbourne wrote:One victory out of four matches against Wales.England should be very worried as Wales have clearly been a poor side for some time.Don't panic!

Why is it always about England?

Looking at the bigger picture surely it must worry you that Wales have stagnated of late.

Wales have one dodgy Six Nations and suddenly they're doomed... doomed I tell you   

Lets just assume that the original post isn't a wind up/gloat... (I know, you'll have to imagine really hard)...

Have Wales peaked? Probably yes, around 18 months ago (they pulled one out of their backsides to beat England in the last 6N) and were very lucky with other wins in that tournament.

The wins/losses against the teams listed in the original gem of a post are misleading to a point, because it doesn't take into account that some of those matches were played with second string teams whilst the pick of the squads were away with the Lions (just one example). If you take those games out, then the win/loss ratio isn't much better than England's over the same period (although England it could be argued faced stiffer opposition more often).

Should Wales be winning more with the players they have? Maybe. But maybe they they've actually over acheived with what they have? Maybe they've been worked out? Maybe a lack of strength in depth (always a Welsh problem by the way) is to blame? The fact is that A winning coaching combination and some very good players paid dividends initially. The honeymoon is over perhaps, but it's not a hopeless situation by any means. I'm sure that this will be addressed by those concerned but whether the resources exist that will enable a reversal of fortune remains to be seen.

Sticking with what they have might not work against the 'big teams', but then England have have also only had erratic success against 'big teams' with what they have, so who are English supporters to offer opinion on this matter?

why 'should' Wales be doing better when by the original poster's own admission, teams go through bad patches. Is this not just one of them? ? What is a 'golden generation?' who said Wales had one?

Enquiring minds need to know.

Jimpy wrote:Have Wales peaked? Probably yes, around 18 months ago (they pulled one out of their backsides to beat England in the last 6N) and were very lucky with other wins in that tournament.

How were they very lucky with their other wins?

no, 50% win ratio since last June is not good enough for Welsh fans. They expect better, and i think i agree with them. But we don't always get what we want or what we think we deserve.

Just like i think England should be on for a slam on Saturday, but slipped up on the French banana-skin so aren't.

anyway, i think Wales will emerge from this stronger. They have a poor front 5 and weak 9/10 combination currently, with a strong backrow and very dangerous 11-15.

it's pretty clear what needs to be worked on, so i see no reason it can't be improved.

  

Lucky may have been the wrong word. But they were (purely from memory) scrappy wins. No issues with that at all, but in terms of performance Wales played to what we believe they are capable of only against england (and the 3rd test v Australia )

This current team probably did peak during the 2012 GS, and some pruning will be required.

The Bachelor wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Have Wales peaked? Probably yes, around 18 months ago (they pulled one out of their backsides to beat England in the last 6N) and were very lucky with other wins in that tournament.

How were they very lucky with their other wins?

See LT's post. Scrappy wins would have been a better description.

LondonTiger wrote:Lucky may have been the wrong word. But they were (purely from memory) scrappy wins. No issues with that at all, but in terms of performance Wales played to what we believe they are capable of only against england (and the 3rd test v Australia )

This current team probably did peak during the 2012 GS, and some pruning will be required.

Scrappy? Yes, but not lucky or undeserved. I think the pruning needs to be at 9/10 and 1-5, but Gatland has already talked during this 6N about managing some of our OAPs to ensure they make it to the next RWC.

The Bachelor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lucky may have been the wrong word. But they were (purely from memory) scrappy wins. No issues with that at all, but in terms of performance Wales played to what we believe they are capable of only against england (and the 3rd test v Australia )

This current team probably did peak during the 2012 GS, and some pruning will be required.

Scrappy? Yes, but not lucky or undeserved. I think the pruning needs to be at 9/10 and 1-5, but Gatland has already talked during this 6N about managing some of our OAPs to ensure they make it to the next RWC.

true, Jenkins managed to get a 10 minute rest at the weekend.

Scrumpy wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:One victory out of four matches against Wales.England should be very worried as Wales have clearly been a poor side for some time.Don't panic!

Why is it always about England?

Looking at the bigger picture surely it must worry you that Wales have stagnated of late.

I was merely reciprocating the concern shown by our near neighbours about our Rugby.  

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lucky may have been the wrong word. But they were (purely from memory) scrappy wins. No issues with that at all, but in terms of performance Wales played to what we believe they are capable of only against england (and the 3rd test v Australia )

This current team probably did peak during the 2012 GS, and some pruning will be required.

Scrappy? Yes, but not lucky or undeserved. I think the pruning needs to be at 9/10 and 1-5, but Gatland has already talked during this 6N about managing some of our OAPs to ensure they make it to the next RWC.

true, Jenkins managed to get a 10 minute rest at the weekend.

He needs to cut down on his Kitkats!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:One victory out of four matches against Wales.England should be very worried as Wales have clearly been a poor side for some time.Don't panic!

Why is it always about England?

Looking at the bigger picture surely it must worry you that Wales have stagnated of late.

I was merely reciprocating the concern shown by our near neighbours about our Rugby.

We're all made of the same stuff and we are all rugby fans.
There is only so much talking up England that is acceptable on this site without people saying we are arrogant, so its a nice change to talk about Wales for a bit.

For a team who aims to win the world cup it doesn't sound like it.

Nah, we don't have enough Lions in our team to win the World Cup.

Thanks for the concern again.

Why only going back as far as June? Is it just to ensure that a few more wins aren't added to the ratio? Smells more than a little of an attempt at a dig really. I'd have thought with everything so rosy in HQ at the mo, you would be happy enough just to concern yourself with your own country?

Don't let Scrumpy get to you. He is just trying to sow discord.

LondonTiger wrote:Don't let Scrumpy get to you. He is just trying to sow discord.

yeah imagine that trying to drive a wedge between the nations that make up Warburtons Britain, how dare he!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Don't let Scrumpy get to you. He is just trying to sow discord.

yeah imagine that trying to drive a wedge between the nations that make up Warburtons Britain, how dare he!

Quite   

I read that as Warburton's Bread

Risca Rev wrote:Thanks for the concern again.

Why only going back as far as June? Is it just to ensure that a few more wins aren't added to the ratio? Smells more than a little of an attempt at a dig really. I'd have thought with everything so rosy in HQ at the mo, you would be happy enough just to concern yourself with your own country?

How far back do you want to go?

Just because I was born in England why does it mean I can't (try to) discuss Wales?
I really don't understand that way of thinking seeing as they are still the current Champions, does that mean Man Utds form shouldn't be talked about by other fans?

Why is it always about Wales?

Taffineastbourne wrote:Why is it always about Wales?

Because you are the Champions, provided us Brits with many Lions during the summer, have a group of very talented players who apparently after experiencing a series win in Aus were going to move onto bigger and better things this year, yet they have taken a big step backwards imo and are in a position where they might have to blood two new Props in quick time as the current guys are struggling.

offload wrote:Tough question Scrumpy - no doubt designed to elicit some wonderful rugby insight.  After considerable reflection, I think the best answer is no, it's not good enough.  

Now why not set yourself a challenge and see if you can get close to Gatland's contribution.  Try and make 50% of your posts worthwhile and valuable.  I know that's a long term goal, but have a go…

PS: This is not a wind up either.   

he'll struggle with the numbers, but brilliant incisive attacking.   

Rest easy.We will be alright.Every side loses now and again.Just think back to England v France and you did ok on Sunday.
Don't worry about us.Thanks anyway.

Scrumpy wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Thanks for the concern again.

Why only going back as far as June? Is it just to ensure that a few more wins aren't added to the ratio? Smells more than a little of an attempt at a dig really. I'd have thought with everything so rosy in HQ at the mo, you would be happy enough just to concern yourself with your own country?

How far back do you want to go?

Just because I was born in England why does it mean I can't (try to) discuss Wales?
I really don't understand that way of thinking seeing as they are still the current Champions, does that mean Man Utds form shouldn't be talked about by other fans?

Because your stumbling fumbling OP reveals you know less than nothing about Welsh rugby?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lucky may have been the wrong word. But they were (purely from memory) scrappy wins. No issues with that at all, but in terms of performance Wales played to what we believe they are capable of only against england (and the 3rd test v Australia )

This current team probably did peak during the 2012 GS, and some pruning will be required.

Scrappy? Yes, but not lucky or undeserved. I think the pruning needs to be at 9/10 and 1-5, but Gatland has already talked during this 6N about managing some of our OAPs to ensure they make it to the next RWC.

true, Jenkins managed to get a 10 minute rest at the weekend.

and in the game vs France too!

Its amazing isn't it, same old people too scared to enter into a sensible discussion!

Not aimed at you Bachelor   

If you are desperate for sensible discussion, post a thread about Ireland rugby instead banter boy. You were pining so bad for them last week too, bless   Failing that add this post to your other thread about Wales, to help that along as well.

Here to help  

Oh there's another great post, nice one!

Sod off and wum else where wumboy 

Some of you are just coming across as Bitter.

That's it report it wumboy

Please feel free to make a contribution that is on topic!

I really wonder if some of you truly love our game?

Scrumpy, for a so called English Rugby Fan, you're posts since Sunday have been all about the demise of Welsh Rugby....
 
If you don't think this is Wum'ing then your delusional or stupid, and I don't want to call you stupid as I'm the one who'll face a ban...
 
Mods - You need to look at mr Scrumpy's recent posts and take action, not contribute to his WUMS... Lets not forget the Rules of Engagement you posted for us before the 6 Nations. Now try enforcing them with a little consistency, as Scrumpys (and other noticeable posters) WUMs are wearing a bit thin... Just as we ask for consistency from Refs, we need the Mods to show the same level of neutral authority.

(Oh and I haven't reported you behind your back Scrumpy... I'm more than happy to go on record here to your face.. )

No9 wrote:Scrumpy, for a so called English Rugby Fan, you're posts since Sunday have been all about the demise of Welsh Rugby....
 
If you don't think this is Wum'ing then your delusional or stupid, and I don't want to call you stupid as I'm the one who'll face a ban...
 
Mods - You need to look at mr Scrumpy's recent posts and take action, not contribute to his WUMS... Lets not forget the Rules of Engagement you posted for us before the 6 Nations. Now try enforcing them with a little consistency, as Scrumpys (and other noticeable posters) WUMs are wearing a bit thin... Just as we ask for consistency from Refs, we need the Mods to show the same level of neutral authority.

(Oh and I haven't reported you behind your back Scrumpy... I'm more than happy to go on record here to your face.. )

   

fyi to retort to this guy leads to warnings from the MODS, not sure why the Welsh WUM threads are tolerated with impunity from certain posters, one hopes they nationality is not the deciding factor but i can just imagine if i posted a 'Will England be satisfied with another 2nd place in the 6 Nations this year" what would happen….

How about some equality across the board?