Ireland - two in a row

First topic message reminder :

As this was an even year with France and England away we have an unprecedented possibility of Ireland winning two in a row, considering the team had a number of geriatrics and a couple of pedestrian players there is a real possibility of this...

MunsterMac wrote:Just for the record it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Ireland won 2 in a row in 82 / 83.

It would be an awful lot to ask though. There four teams with fairly similar talent, Ireland, England, Wales and France. For Ireland to beat all three of them is seriously tough whether home or away.

fa0019 wrote:GG i know what you are saying... there are strong leaders in that side.... but I don't doubt BOD also had perhaps the 1st or 2nd most respected voice in the locker room.

POC naturally, POM looks like he is stepping up, Sexton also but one thing is true is that players like BOD are often felt more in their absence then they are in their presence.

We'll see. Playing, I don't think it will be an issue. Directive and leadership, we'll see.

Ireland scored 16 tries in the championship spead evenly over the squad. This to me suggests Ireland are really playing as a team more than anything else. The only guy we over rely on is probably Sexton at this point who was our top try scorer and probably undroppable.

fa0019 wrote:How will Ireland be without BOD?

Who can replace him at OC and who will replace his leadership?

Victor Matfield couldn't replace the leadership of Smit even though Bismarck surpassed him as a hooker.

There are two answers to that...and they come from a typical discussion session that you might witness at any time in 606 over the last number of years.

Elated Irish fan: "BOD is GOD and irreplacable.  We're lost without him."
Knowing irritated outside fan: "He ain't all that good, just a decent centre who made a name for himself in a bad side.  You guys over-sell his importance."

Knowing Irish fan:  "BOD wasn't all that good.  He was just a decent centre who made a name for himself in bad sides.  We'll easily replace him."
Knowing irritated outside fan: "What schit!     BOD practically carried Ireland on his own back to anything you've ever won - alone!  He was that good.  You're all being much too confident thinking he'll be easily replaced when he goes.  Ireland will suffer badly because they really don't have anyone close to his talent emerging"

In other words,take your pick. We're either going to miss him terribly and all our opponents are going to reap the rewards. Or we'll hardly blink and in actual fact become a faster team when we get a new centre or two who actually have the young lungs and legs to open up an opposition again. Time will decide.

France - England away, Ireland away, Wales home.
Ireland - England home, France home, Wales away.
Wales - England home, France, away, Ireland, home.
England - France home, Ireland away, Wales away.

I think it will be tough for France to win. England need to get over their MS issues so really at the moment I think its very possible that either Ireland & Wales can secure the trophy in 2015.

key individuals are so important. Probably the difference each year to winning and losing. England with a full XV probably would have won in Paris and the GS but when do teams ever have their full XV available?

Ireland are missing chaps like Ferris, Bowe, SOB too. SOB certainly would have improved the Irish team in Twickenham for instance.... but then again so would a Corbisiero and Cole for England.

too subjective but all we can say is that key individuals matter a lot.

No such thing as a full strength side anymore. Playing as a team, having depth and good coaching are the key to consistency now rather than key players but it would be really nice to have a full strength side.

The odd years have been the easier for Ireland and Wales and more difficult for England over the last decade or so. Winning in Paris has come easily enough to England. For them to win in both Dublin and Cardiff next year would be pretty special in my opinion. They have beaten Ireland four times in a row now which is very good considering the two teams have been pretty evenly matched of late. The Irish will want to set that record straight.

Also I think Scotland will take a few scalps next season. They will be a completely different animal next year under Cotter. I like their second rows, they have a few excellent backrows, decent half backs, potentially excellent centres and one of the best attacking back threes around.

Scotland still have the age old problem. They don't have a class 10. They haven't since 1999.

They have a decent back 3, some potential in the centres and an abundance of quality scrumhalfs.

Front row is still an issue... but the massive issue is still 10.

Can't see them taking a huge scalps... not a chance against England or France away from home at least.

Engine#4 wrote:The odd years have been the easier for Ireland and Wales and more difficult for England over the last decade or so.  Winning in Paris has come easily enough to England.  For them to win in both Dublin and Cardiff next year would be pretty special in my opinion.  They have beaten Ireland four times in a row now which is very good considering the two teams have been pretty evenly matched of late. The Irish will want to set that record straight.

Also I think Scotland will take a few scalps next season.  They will be a completely different animal next year under Cotter.  I like their second rows, they have a few excellent backrows, decent half backs, potentially excellent centres and one of the best attacking back threes around.

Yeah, yeah, of course they will. Dark horses. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Fact is, they're now years behind the top teams in terms of development, still don't have a coherent team/strategy and a year isn't going to make a huge difference.

Why are Scotland going to take a few scalps next year

Week front row, no credible 10 and a 12/13 that is one of the worst in the competition
Compounded by picking an unbalanced backrow

I actually think Scotland have a decent centre pairing now. Best in say 5+ years.

It is the best they have had but better than?
 
France - Basteraud, Fofana, Fickou
England - Burrell, Manu, Twelvetrees
Wales - Roberts, Davies
 
 
Ok Ireland have some rebuilding to do but given the strength coming through would  I rather be in our position than Scotlands? - no way
As for Italy there new 13 is better than anyone in Scotland
 
Bottom line is if the centre options for the coming years were to be graded Scotland remain near the bottom.
To say they are better than they were is merely highlighting how awful they were before

saying that though its not a weakness like before.

Agreed but the statement was made by Engine #4 that Scotland will take a few scalps next year.

In order to do so they need to be superior to other teams in some areas of the park - that is not the case at 12/13.

Where are Scotland better than the opposition?
Even more importantly there are areas of the pitch where they are considerably weaker

I can see nothing to convince me that any more than 2 wins is realistic for Scotland next year

i agree in some ways geoff

its difficult as its a team game. Team harmony is so important as is combinations.

Take England for instance. Nearly man to man the Welsh backline is rated better but England seem to have more togetherness and they are a better unit.

but you're right... i can't see Scotland taking scalps in the near future.