Scotland and the summer tour!

First topic message reminder :

Games:

Saturday 7 June:
United States of America v Scotland
BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston, Texas

Saturday 14 June:
Canada v Scotland
BMO Field, Toronto, Ontario

Saturday 21 June:
Argentina v Scotland
Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes, Córdoba

Saturday 28 June:
South Africa v Scotland
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth

***
Now the 6 nations are over there will be major changes for Scotland between now and the next international.
Vern Cotter will be the head coach for the next test with scott Johnson moving to director of rugby. Unclear yet if Cotter will bring in his own coaching team or whether he will inherit the current crop.

The 6 nations has been a disaster for Scotland but I still believe Scotland has some very good players and a lot of the problems in the 6 nations stem from poor coaching, tactics, very bad selection and man management. Glasgow regularly beat the top Rambo teams, Edinburgh can as well and a lot of the exile players are playing at the very top teams in England and France and winning week in week out but for some reason when they pull on the blue jersey something just isn't there.
This will all change when Cotter arrives. Speaking to Chris Paterson and al kellock a few weeks ago they can't wait for cotter to arrive as they say his coaching style and manner is that of a modern day Jim Telfer and they believe exactly what this squad need.

From a playing point of view there are a few players that should be dropped and not selected for the summer tour. For me they are Ryan Wilson, Tim Swinson, Greig Laidlaw.
Wilson is good at number 8 for Glasgow but is not a 6 at international level. We have 3 far better 6's available yet none were picked. Would Wilson get in the team at 8? For me, nope. Denton, Beattie are far better options and I would say Ali Hogg is also far better than wilson. Why was he picked? Because Johnson thought he was a good "kid". It's not wilson a fault he was picked out of position but there are far better options.
Tim Swinson was very poor compared to his form on last years summer tour. He didn't seem to have the same grunt or energy and was ver ineffective. Again there are other options at lock like Gilchrist who has improved a lot this season and has a harder edge about him now and also johnnycake gray.
Greig Laidlaw was put in the autumn tests and even worse in the 6 nations. His decision making was poor, his service was extremely slow. He offers no break or snipe at all and his main attribute his goal kicking has been poor. Custer looks far sharper, when he has played and deserves a shot. He also has very good leadership qualities. Grayson Hart is also in top form and deserves a chance on recent form. Quick pass, physical and knows the way to the line.

The Backrow was the biggest concern during the 6 nations, it was unbalanced and very off pace. The back row needs balance and a good back row will have 3 players with different qualities, a scavenger who makes a nuisance of himself and tackles his heart out. A hard worker who will do the unseen stuff at the breakdown and then a big athletic ball carrier who will run all day making the hard yards. Scotland have these options but went for three players who were all very similar. It didn't work and must be changed.

The summer tour we play Canada, USA, Argentina and South Africa. The first two teams we "should" beat comfortably the other two will be tough and physical. They will probably take a squad of between 32 and 35.
I'd go with 6 props
Ryan grant
Ali Dickinson
Jon welsh but has to move back to loose head where he is far more destructive.
Euan murray
Geoff cross
Moray low not great during 6 nations but would like to see what difference cotter can make.

Squad

North America

LH - Allan, Reid, Traynor
H - Bryce, Lawson, McArthur
TH - Cross, Low
SR - Gilchrist, Gray, Hamilton, Low
6/8 - Beattie, Brown, Strokosh
7 - Cowan

SH - Hart, Laidlaw
SO - Heathcoat, Russell
IC - Taylor
OC -Bennett
W - Evans, Lamont, Maitland, Visser
FB - Hogg

Argentina / SA

LH - Dickinson, Reid
H - Bryce, Ford, McArthur
TH - Cross, Low, Welsh
SR - Gilchrist, Gray, Swinson
6/8 - Denton, Harley,
7 - Fusaro

SH - Hart, Pyrgos
SO - Jackson, Weir
IC - Horne
OC - ?
W - Fife, Maitland, Seymour
FB - Hogg, Murchie

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Fiji and Samoa games at 3am were my favourite v2 forum memories of all time!   

I watched the Samoa game on a 12 inch tv in a kitchen shack beneath the bridge over the river kwai. I am not joking !

Wow, you've got to elaborate on that one!

Well we're back to Scotland games next weekend, and its almost a bit of an anti climax after this season!

Cotter was at the game yesterday so will be interesting to hear what he thought of it. There are also likely to be some walking wounded and I'd be surprised if we saw many Glasgow players against the USA.

I wonder if some of them, Dunbar and Fusaro in particular are going to be fit at all. Both of them looked in some trouble as they came off. Maybe Bennett may yet get his first cap this summer!

Horne went off injured early too. We're starting to look a bit short in the centers now, especially if you go back to my earlier post showing how few centres are in each squad.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Horne went off injured early too. We're starting to look a bit short in the centers now, especially if you go back to my earlier post showing how few centres are in each squad.

Horne was a blood injury and he came back on and finished the game. Lamont came on for Dunbar when he went off. He was limping quite heavily and put an ice pack straight onto his groin when he sat down so looks a bit of a worry I would say.

I thought as much, Dunbar and Cus not travelling out on tour at the moment. Dunbar has hip injury and Cusiter was concussed. Bennett and Hart to take their places.

Bennett deserves to be capped now, I hope that Dunbar's misfortune is to his benefit!

Far from ideal, especially with Bennett and Lamont doing the 7s and Taylor unavailable for SA - who will be our centres for that game??

Sorry for Dunbar, but I'd be happy to remove Bennett from his 7s jolly (although I guess that is a bit unfair on the player who is clearly looking forward to it). Cus played a huge number of games this season, so no wonder he's in pieces at the moment.

Hart also deserves his chance though and I would be pleased to see him taken out of the requirement to pass to Bezzy and watch the ball slow to a crawl.

Might we see Holmes instead of Fozzy? I would be quite excited by that, actually as it meant the world to Holmes to get his Scotland A cap. He certainly wouldn't let anyone down.

Tis official, Bennett to join the team in Houston for Saturdays game in place of the injured Dunbar.

George Carlin wrote:Sorry for Dunbar, but I'd be happy to remove Bennett from his 7s jolly (although I guess that is a bit unfair on the player who is clearly looking forward to it). Cus played a huge number of games this season, so no wonder he's in pieces at the moment.

Hart also deserves his chance though and I would be pleased to see him taken out of the requirement to pass to Bezzy and watch the ball slow to a crawl.

Might we see Holmes instead of Fozzy? I would be quite excited by that, actually as it meant the world to Holmes to get his Scotland A cap. He certainly wouldn't let anyone down.

Nothing said about Fusaro, so I assume he is still going. I have to say that I don't see Holmes as a full international player, so if we are short at openside then I imagine we will see KB or RH fill in there. There is also the London Irish player, whose name I have completely forgotten, who can play across the back row. We will need Fusaro more for the second leg of the tour, so if he was injured then hopefully he will be back by then anyway.

Blair Cowan is the London Irish chap

GLove39 wrote:Blair Cowan is the London Irish chap

Blair Cowan was regarded as one of the leading backrow players in the Aviva this season apparently, he could very well be the bolter from this tour.

Really looking forward to seeing how he gets on - sounds an all action back rower!

Yes I remember now. He is well thought of down here and so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

Its going to be an interesting team for the first test at least. You would imagine all the players that played on Saturday for Glasgow, Castre and Saracens will at best be on the bench. That would mean Laidlaw and Heatcote at half back, centres of Taylor and Bennett and a back three of Visser, Hogg and Lamont (on the basis that he had the shortest amount of game time!) That is not actually that bad a back line, we have certainly had worse.

Up front it would be front row, Cross, Lawson and Dickenson. Hamilton and Gilchrist in the second row and Beattie, Cowan and Low in the back row.

That should be a good enough team to beat the USA, especially with a pretty strong bench to come on later in the game. We should then get an even stronger team out the following week to play Canada, who I think will be stronger anyway.

Some interesting combinations there, I wonder if we are going to see it, no news of any coverage yet.

The other intriguing thing is the inclusion of Heathcote. Surely we would not be taking him if we knew that he was going to be rotting away in the Bath reserve team next year. He has hardly played any meaningful rugby all season at the end of the day, if that is not corrected then surely his career is seriously on the slide and why would we be bothering. Is this a sign that he is going to be moving, as he should. Bath even stopped benching him in the second half of the season, which would suggest that they were cutting him loose as well. I would really like to see him at a Scottish team next year. I would accept that Edinburgh have first dibbs on this one, but if they don't want him, bring him to Glasgow!

Agree with all of that. If Heathcote doesn't realise how much damage not playing regularly is doing to his international reputation, then someone should really tell him.

Must be quite seductive to stay somewhere as nice as Bath and constantly be told that if you train hard, you're in with a chance but Tom needs to cut the umbilical cord now. Ford had his best ever season, is an England fan and management darling and Heathcote as to accept this and get out to where he stands at least a chance of starting most weeks.

In the local having my Sunday steak and happened to flick through a copy of the Sunday Mail that was lying around. Anyway they had a bit in amongst the drivel on junior football that said. Scotland USA live and exclusive on Daily Record .com. Half one in the morning ko, but repeated on the website next day.

Seriously - who will the centres be against SA given Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, Taylor and Lamont are unavailable? Russell and Horne??   

Horne and Hogg?

Richie V and AN Other

justified sinner wrote:Richie V and AN Other

Uncle Dougie has just ordered his first passport.   

It should be here by 2021.

Is Richie V even in the squad?

justified sinner wrote:In the local having my Sunday steak and happened to flick through a copy of the Sunday Mail that was lying around. Anyway they had a bit in amongst the drivel on junior football that said. Scotland USA live and exclusive on Daily Record .com. Half one in the morning ko, but repeated on the website next day.

Well, that's something at least. Any idea if it'll be free to view or paywall?


Edit...
Little bit of googling suggests it should be free, although apparently they did this for the Scotland - Poland football match back in March, and it doesn't sound like it was the biggest success http://talkingbaws.com/2014/03/05/scotland-erupts-in-twitter-rage-over-daily-records-failed-poland-v-scotland-live-stream/

Still given the kickoff time, and the fact it'll most likely just be us watching, this stream (if it's happening) will hopefully work!

Can someone post the squads to the OP please? Travelling at present and ah cannae dae it.

Updated the OP - hope Maj doesn't mind.

As you will see we are very short in the centre department!

Just realised Richie V is playing in the 7s so he is unavailable for the SA game too.

The SA game is really not looking like a good decision now!

More squad news, switcharoo...

SRU wrote:Scotland stand-offs Ruaridh Jackson and Tom Heathcote have swapped places for this month's summer Test tour schedule.

Heathcote, who signed for Edinburgh Rugby earlier today, will now be part of the Scotland touring squad for visits to Argentina and South Africa.

Jackson joined the squad in Texas yesterday (Sunday) ahead of this Saturday's Test against USA at the BBVA Compass Stadium

That game against the Boks becomes even more daunting!

GLove39 wrote:More squad news, switcharoo...

SRU wrote:Scotland stand-offs Ruaridh Jackson and Tom Heathcote have swapped places for this month's summer Test tour schedule.

Heathcote, who signed for Edinburgh Rugby earlier today, will now be part of the Scotland touring squad for visits to Argentina and South Africa.

Jackson joined the squad in Texas yesterday (Sunday) ahead of this Saturday's Test against USA at the BBVA Compass Stadium

That game against the Boks becomes even more daunting!

And pointless

So the backline for the SA game surely must be something like

Hart
Weir
Seymour
Horne
Hogg
Maitland
Murchie

Bench - Pyrgos, Heathcoat, Fife

  

Our pack isn't too bad but that backline is going to get steamrolled. And that's assuming we don't pick up any injuries along the way!

Let's face it guys - we've got to put ourselves through these ridiculous summer schedules for as long as it takes to get back into the normal tour roster. We've fallen far behind, and need to run farther to catch up.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So the backline for the SA game surely must be something like

Hart
Weir
Seymour
Horne
Hogg
Maitland
Murchie

Bench - Pyrgos, Heathcoat, Fife

  

Our pack isn't too bad but that backline is going to get steamrolled.

Yeah and that's best case scenario, as thats assuming none of those pick up knocks between then and now!

Possible team for the weekend?

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Tim Visser

10 Finn Russell
9 Greig Laidlaw

1 Gordon Reid
2 Scott Lawson
3 Geoff Cross
4 Richie Gray
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Kelly Brown
7 Blair Cowan
8 Johnnie Beattie


16 Pat MacArthur
17 Alex Allan
18 Moray Low
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Alasdair Strokosch
21 Grayson Hart
22 Ruaridh Jackson
23 Max Evans

I would rest Maitland, but play Russell as he could do with another two games under his belt.

Think it's fair to say we'll have to play a fast paced, loose, attacking game against the Boks because we're going to be at a significant physical disadvantage.

That backline is young, exciting and skilful but very much lacking in oomph. I also fear for our defensive line if Hogg is trotting out at 13 - the most difficult defensive position on the pitch IMO.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Possible team for the weekend?  

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Tim Visser

10 Finn Russell
9 Greig Laidlaw

1 Gordon Reid
2 Scott Lawson
3 Geoff Cross
4 Richie Gray
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Kelly Brown
7 Blair Cowan
8 Johnnie Beattie


16 Pat MacArthur
17 Alex Allan
18 Moray Low
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Alasdair Strokosch
21 Grayson Hart
22 Ruaridh Jackson
23 Max Evans

I would rest Maitland, but play Russell as he could do with another two games under his belt.

Gray and Brown have just had very physical finals at the weekend, and indeed Brown has played top level knockout rugby for the past 4 weeks - including 20 mins extra time on Saturday - he could probably do with sitting this one out!

Is Beattie even fit? He hasn't played in months.

Delighted for the Messiah - hopefully he will grasp this chance and show fES what he's been missing!

Are we certain Bennett won't be available for the SA game?

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Possible team for the weekend?  

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Tim Visser

10 Finn Russell
9 Greig Laidlaw

1 Gordon Reid
2 Scott Lawson
3 Geoff Cross
4 Richie Gray
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Kelly Brown
7 Blair Cowan
8 Johnnie Beattie


16 Pat MacArthur
17 Alex Allan
18 Moray Low
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Alasdair Strokosch
21 Grayson Hart
22 Ruaridh Jackson
23 Max Evans

I would rest Maitland, but play Russell as he could do with another two games under his belt.

That's a pretty good side in all honesty, would expect it to beat the Yanks.

Expect Hogg will be keen to prove a point or two this summer.

It's written in the stars, the legend that is O'Driscoll retires and the    gets his chance the next weekend.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Are we certain Bennett won't be available for the SA game?

It's a good point - I've just realised the 7s is the end of July, not the end of June!   

Surely Lamont and Bennett will be made available then given the dearth of options in the centre.

Yes I went there with Lamont in the centre!

They aren't listed in the squad, but needs must and all that

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Possible team for the weekend?  

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Tim Visser

10 Finn Russell
9 Greig Laidlaw

1 Gordon Reid
2 Scott Lawson
3 Geoff Cross
4 Richie Gray
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Kelly Brown
7 Blair Cowan
8 Johnnie Beattie


16 Pat MacArthur
17 Alex Allan
18 Moray Low
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Alasdair Strokosch
21 Grayson Hart
22 Ruaridh Jackson
23 Max Evans

I would rest Maitland, but play Russell as he could do with another two games under his belt.

Gray and Brown have just had very physical finals at the weekend, and indeed Brown has played top level knockout rugby for the past 4 weeks - including 20 mins extra time on Saturday - he could probably do with sitting this one out!

Is Beattie even fit? He hasn't played in months.

Beattie is in the squad, so have assumed he is fit.

Forgot about the other finals. Fair point, drop Gray from the 23. Kelly to be rested as much as possible (so drop from the 15) , but in terms of back row options there are not many others out on tour.

Although to be fair Gray had the HK final weekend off, and was subbed off after 50 odd minutes in the Top 14 final.

It's more the travelling and arriving in camp today that is the issue. And judging by Max Evans' Twitter feed they didn't get much sleep after the game!  

KB will definitely running on fumes though.

SRU have confirmed what Justified said, the USA game will be streamed (for free) on the Daily Record site.
Here's to another early morning sesh where we're all on here!   

Do you have to pay to sign up the the Daily Ranger website?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Although to be fair Gray had the HK final weekend off, and was subbed off after 50 odd minutes in the Top 14 final.

It's more the travelling and arriving in camp today that is the issue. And judging by Max Evans' Twitter feed they didn't get much sleep after the game!  

KB will definitely running on fumes though.

Its really a wafer thin squad we have out there numbers wise, that a few of these guys are going to have to take part, without anywhere close to the proper preperation. Kyle Traynor is still named in the squad and he is playing for Bristol on Wednesday!

tigertattie wrote:Do you have to pay to sign up the the Daily Ranger website?

Quite possibly, but the Daily Record website is free.

GLove39 wrote:
Here's to another early morning sesh where we're all on here!   

.....or we all agree that a good night's sleep is more important, don't watch it live, and agree to all watch a re-run on the Daily Record Website (which you can watch at any time after the game) at a more sensible time like 10am!

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Possible team for the weekend?  

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Tim Visser

10 Finn Russell
9 Greig Laidlaw

1 Gordon Reid
2 Scott Lawson
3 Geoff Cross
4 Richie Gray
5 Grant Gilchrist
6 Kelly Brown
7 Blair Cowan
8 Johnnie Beattie


16 Pat MacArthur
17 Alex Allan
18 Moray Low
19 Jim Hamilton
20 Alasdair Strokosch
21 Grayson Hart
22 Ruaridh Jackson
23 Max Evans

I would rest Maitland, but play Russell as he could do with another two games under his belt.

I think Jacko will start at 10 and Russell will debut of the bench. He looked completely cooked at the end of the cup final. Jacko will be the fresher. They will change it around for the second game.

Big Jim and Gilchrist to start in the second row, Ritchie off the bench.

Low to start at blind side. Surely KB needs a rest more than anyone.

Otherwise that is pretty much going to be the team I would think. I am sure that everyone on the tour is going to get some game time, he will want to see what his options are and it is a pretty small party at the end of the day. Whatever team they put out really aught to be good enough to win these games. It is the next leg that will be a lot more difficult!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

GLove39 wrote:
Here's to another early morning sesh where we're all on here!   

.....or we all agree that a good night's sleep is more important, don't watch it live, and agree to all watch a re-run on the Daily Record Website (which you can watch at any time after the game) at a more sensible time like 10am!

Now, now that's not the attitude.
Also 10am on a Saturday?Does that even exist?!?

Will it not be Sunday morning for us?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Will it not be Sunday morning for us?

Yep Sunday morning at 10 is normally when I'm defuzzing my head from the night before with black coffee and thinking where to go for my Sunday brunch.

 yeah, Sunday it is. Point still applies, I'm not a morning person on weekends!

Kids these days eh!   

Well 10, 11, 12 - you get the jist!

Hoi, I'll have you know I'm old enough to be your father and if I was from Glasgow your grandfather.