Liam Williams

I've always rated him and publicly praised him many a time.

For my money he was the best FB of the six nations weekend and provided a gain to Wales rather than the anticipated loss of halfpenny. Granted he was the right man for the job of carving up 14
Man Scotland. But I still rate his performance over that of brown.

Does his freedom at fullback put paid to the myth that it is Gatland strangling halfpenny? Should Liam Williams be retained at FB for his extra attacking edge and creativity and room
Be found elsewhere for 1/2p?

I have always said that I rate Liam Williams as a better "fullback" than Leigh Halfpenny, when Cuthbert was injured during the AI I posted on here that Halpenny should play on th wing and Williams should be played at fullback and I got tarred and feathered, for me Halfpenny is the darling of the rugby world, yes he is very good, but Williams is better, as for comparing Liam Williams with Brown, well we know you are just trying to cause a Welsh V English bun fight so I hope nobody falls for it, as for talking about the two Welsh players though, I will debate about it all day with you.

It must have helped that he didnt have to play against any FB on the weekend?

Kearney had a great game against 15 French men in Paris.

Ignoring the obvious Bun fight that LD has correctly envisaged....

Halfpenny is a good runner and attacked yet seems to stay back, almost like he has shackles on him. Williams was excellent, but it was almost like he had the shackles taken off him.

Is Halfpenny under instructions to play that way...or did Williams just ignore them and play heads up rugby?

Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago. His passion and skills were obvioius. Since then he seems to have disappeared and is now back in the mention again.

Halfpenny is a brilliant rugby player but he is a winger played as a fullback.

Sanjay is a fullback who we've had to use as a winger.

Hopefully, IF Halpenny has been 'shackled' then Gatland may now appreciate what an attacking fullback can do and let Halfpenny do the same.

I'd love to see Byrne play one more game for Wales to see if he can still run those gorgeous attacking lines he used to for us.

I suppose that there is always that feeling of reliability you get with 1/2p, both with the kicking (obviously) and the knowing that he'll always be in the right place at the right time. He seems so much more mobile than the rest of the back line and rarely has bad games. But the kicking thing does tend to heavily skew how he is seen.

We seem to be in an era where attacking fullbacks are very fashionable and, ironically given his past career as a wing, that is an area where 1/2p really suffers in comparison with his 6N opposite numbers

Jordan Williams needs a run out too

For those who say that 1/2p cannot be an attacking option - please look at the 3rd Lions test last Summer.

LondonTiger wrote:For those who say that 1/2p cannot be an attacking option - please look at the 3rd Lions test last Summer.

I don't think anyone has said he can't be one, read my previous post, its as though he's been trained NOT to be one

What we all need to remember is, that Leigh Halfpenny was only moved to fullback out of necessity, the thing is when Lee Byrne went to France he was our only international level fullback we had, Leigh Halfpenny at the time was a wing for both the Blues and Wales, heck he was even seen as the ideal replacement for Shane Williams, but he was moved to fullback where he concentrated on his kicking game and positioning and until now he has not really had any competition for that position, Halfpenny would be world class on either the wing or at fullback, I just see him as a better winger than fullback, and Liam Williams as a better fullback than wing, so why Gatland insists on playing them the other way around just baffles me.

munkian wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:For those who say that 1/2p cannot be an attacking option - please look at the 3rd Lions test last Summer.

I don't think anyone has said he can't be one, read my previous post, its as though he's been trained NOT to be one

Yeah ,LT we're not saying he isnt....its almost like he's being told to play a certain way...

Maybe Williams has shown that its possibly not the best way to utilize a quality player....

Liam williams benefitted from playing against 14 men and i also think Wales, without halfpenny, ditched the kick and chase aspect because that isn't Williams' strength.

As harsh as it may seem, if 1/2p was to be in the wales team it would have to be at the expense of cuthbert. He seems to have stalled a little bit, you can see North just getting better but Cuthbert you have to wonder whether it will take a little more time with him to become a top class winger. He should have been running in tries last weekend, against 14 men but again didn't get on the score sheet.

I'm amazed Cuthbert didn't get a try too, I forgot he was playing to be honest

yeah, he's been rather anonymous this 6N baring the try against italy.

I don't think Halfpenny is often that comfortable at full back because people always try and take his head off. We'll see where Williams is when we play SA.

TBH the way Wales have gone reminds me of England under Johnson.
Reliance on a big scrummaging pack of veterans. Whgen it comes off they can take apart any but the very best opposition.
Some good backs but a preference for crash ball options and percentage rugby. Again when it works its crushing, other times it just appears one dimensional and antiquated.

The team though is capable of playing fast and loose, but generaly only when the going s good and they have the wind behind their backs. Earn the right to go wide and all that jazz.

Scotland made it pretty easy for them to go out and have fun, you wouldnt catch LW playing like that if Wales were 3 up against Aus with 5 minutes left (again!).

That said the amount Halfpenny kicks is exaggerated.

The Saint wrote:I don't think Halfpenny is often that comfortable at full back because people always try and take his head off. We'll see where Williams is when we play SA.

Rubbish, when has that happened?

Most of his injuries are from tackling, brave try saving efforts, yes!

But you wouldn’t want to teach the kids to tackle like that.


1/2p is most dangerous on the wing imo.

Liam Williams' contributions in the other 6N games in which he featured as a substitute were noted for his petulance/stupidity rather than for his great play.

SneakySideStep wrote:Liam Williams' contributions in the other 6N games in which he featured as a substitute were noted for his petulance/stupidity rather than for his great play.

Agreed. but he is young and foolish.

He was played out position though. Mike brown and Israel Dagg both look ordinary on the wing too.

Scrumpy wrote:

The Saint wrote:I don't think Halfpenny is often that comfortable at full back because people always try and take his head off. We'll see where Williams is when we play SA.

Rubbish, when has that happened?

Most of his injuries are from tackling, brave try saving efforts, yes!

But you wouldn’t want to teach the kids to tackle like that.


1/2p is most dangerous on the wing imo.

In tackle situations when he ducking under a tackle. He's also liable under the high ball when challenged, I think mainly due to his size as his technique is very good. I think he's a great full back and can't judge whether he's better on the wing as he's not played there in a long time.

Agreed then. Liam Williams to stay at FB and 1/2p to share a wing with cuthbert. That makes the back line very malleable. North can go to 13, 1/2p can rotate with Williams and 1/2p can cover either wing.

Might just bring the extra dimension Wales have been lacking.

I guess it depends if Williams continues to progress, it would certainly make a strong back 3 though. Cuthbert had a pretty average tournament so wouldn't be so bad if he did get dropped.

That’s sorted then.

Time to sort the scrum out!
Interesting piece in the rugby newspaper regarding the percentage of scrums collapsing during the 6 nations. Seem to be more likely when Gethin is in there!

Taylorman wrote:Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago. His passion and skills were obvioius. Since then he seems to have disappeared and is now back in the mention again.

I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it. He showed nice quick hands for Cuthbert's try at the end of that game. I guess we'll see how good he is on the summer tour (barring injury).

I remember Sanjay's big hit on Daag(?) during the NZ game - it made Daag knock on, he didn't look too happy   

GunsGerms wrote:It must have helped that he didnt have to play against any FB on the weekend?

  

Williams started playing on the wing. Since being moved to 15 he's done well. He's not always consistent for the Scarlets though as pointed out by a few of their fans this season. There's also been calls for him to move back to the wing. So right now it's very surprising to see so many convinced Sanjay is superior to Halfpenny at 15. Each of them are 'back 3' players which makes them superior to Cuthbert IMO. Amos and J.Williams coming through the ranks are also back 3 players, and with Cuthbert's form it's evident that he'll be the one finding his starting place in jeopardy. North's position is safe, but hopefully he doesn't think he can take it for granted.

LordDowlais wrote:I have always said that I rate Liam Williams as a better "fullback" than Leigh Halfpenny, when Cuthbert was injured during the AI I posted on here that Halpenny should play on th wing and Williams should be played at fullback and I got tarred and feathered, for me Halfpenny is the darling of the rugby world, yes he is very good, but Williams is better, as for comparing Liam Williams with Brown, well we know you are just trying to cause a Welsh V English bun fight so I hope nobody falls for it, as for talking about the two Welsh players though, I will debate about it all day with you.

I agree with you totally. Cuthburt had a poor 6N and Liam at 15 with 1/2 taking over Alex place should be tried I feel. I think there is huge potential in the Welsh squad with good strength in depth. Not too disappointed at all with how we are. Gatland just needs to wake up a bit and take a few chances.

Not a fan at all, but that's because to me his best asset seems to be 'feistiness'. In other words, I'd quite like to see someone give him a clout. A decent player, but there's nothing he does particularly well. Good hands, decent running lines, average under the high ball, average pace, OK defence.

He's alright, maybe people can convince me he's anything more than that.

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Might just bring the extra dimension Wales have been lacking.

True, they have height and width in the back 3 but have lacked depth

We moved Halfpenny to 15 because we had no other options, Byrne was out of form and Hook was inexperienced at fullback at the time. Halfpenny seemed to be a revelation mainly because we lacked a consistent player back there for some time. But he was never a better fullback than an on form Byrne, he doesn't run the great angles and can't compete as well with other bigger fullbacks as well as Byrne.

Everyone harps on about Halfpenny in the 3rd Lions test, and I'll be honest he was oustanding, but that was the best attacking play we've seen from him, hes never played like that for Wales and I can think of only a couple of occasions where he has been instrumental in creating a try scoring chance from fullback. And I'm not convinced its just Gatlands tactics.

Contrast that to Liam Williams on Saturday where he set up 2 tries in the first half, one from competing a high ball and winning and giving a deft offload.

"Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago" - which is a pretty good test!

Liam Williams is not average under the high ball, Hood, he is very good. He's completely fearless. I know 1/2p is too, but LW has a height advantage.

I wasn't sure about LW's pace and skill, but his skills have been coming on nicely (he's quite a late starter in pro rugby, didn't do the academies or any of that), and his pace didn't look bad on Saturday.

I wouldn't say he's better than 1/2p at FB just because of that one game, however, his form when given the opportunity suggests we might re-think the back 3, at least for some games. I wouldn't ditch Cuthbert in a hurry, though, he's a lethal finisher. Wales didn't seem to move the ball to his wing that much this 6N

Youtube compilation from his first season of pro rugby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55yrKAaW24U

Why is he known as Sanjay?

Few of the Llanelli boys have nicknames. Foxy (JD2), Smiler, (Matthew Rees), McShingler... Don't think I need to point out who that is. You'd have to ask a Scarlets supporter why.

Apparently, he came back from Holiday with a deep tan when he was younger, kids in school named him Sanjay

Most have said that Williams and Halfpenny should have swapped positions maybe now Gatland will see that or more likely he will select them both as wing/fullbacks.

Halfpenny can attack but seems to play more to order or like some have said did Williams just ignore those orders on Saturday.

Wales had clearly changed tactics for Scotland, offering a more expansive and offloading game. Wales were clearly the better team even before the sending off. These factors gave the 15 whoever it was licence to attack and therefore look good. The Williams/Halfpenny debate has to take into account how Halfpenny would have played himself under these circumstances.
Its ridiculous to assume from one game against an inferior team with 14 men that Williams is a better than world nominee player of the year, Lions man of the series Halfpenny. Having said that, he did look good. But that's the first time he's had a consistently good game for Wales.


series

BlueNote wrote:"Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago" - which is a pretty good test!

Liam Williams is not average under the high ball, Hood, he is very good.  He's completely fearless.  I know 1/2p is too, but LW has a height advantage.

I wasn't sure about LW's pace and skill, but his skills have been coming on nicely (he's quite a late starter in pro rugby, didn't do the academies or any of that), and his pace didn't look bad on Saturday.

I wouldn't say he's better than 1/2p at FB just because of that one game, however, his form when given the opportunity suggests we might re-think the back 3, at least for some games.  I wouldn't ditch Cuthbert in a hurry, though, he's a lethal finisher.  Wales didn't seem to move the ball to his wing that much this 6N

+1 agree with your points including Cuthbert he hardly had any ball as the ball hardly reached the wings except for the Scotland game, the one try by Faletau was created with Cuthbet's neat flick pass.

Fair enough lass but half is an awkward runner and not a natural ball in hand, tends to find contact. Cuthbert will get rested for sure though if all 3 are fit and Williams will be the incumbent in SA.

Cuthbert is a work in progress. We should persist with him. I am big fan. A potential world 15 player.

BlueNote wrote:"Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago" - which is a pretty good test!

Liam Williams is not average under the high ball, Hood, he is very good.  He's completely fearless.  I know 1/2p is too, but LW has a height advantage.

I wasn't sure about LW's pace and skill, but his skills have been coming on nicely (he's quite a late starter in pro rugby, didn't do the academies or any of that), and his pace didn't look bad on Saturday.

I wouldn't say he's better than 1/2p at FB just because of that one game, however, his form when given the opportunity suggests we might re-think the back 3, at least for some games.  I wouldn't ditch Cuthbert in a hurry, though, he's a lethal finisher.  Wales didn't seem to move the ball to his wing that much this 6N

Fair enough, happy to concede, I may have seen him on a few off days.

Is there a more bow-legged runner in rugby right now? He seems quite fast but boy does he run ugly. If I'm honest, he comes across as a bit of a pillock. But in the sense that people will think that of Mike Brown.

Liam Williams is a fine player but if Brown has been accused of petulance or temper issues then what can be said about Sanjay?

Both he and Jordan Williams are great options going forward for Wales though. Once Hogg was sent off it was hard to establish exactly how well Wales had to play as Scotland gave up though

Hood83 wrote:

BlueNote wrote:"Us kiwis all saw the potential in Williams when he more than stood up to the ABs in the AIs a couple of years ago" - which is a pretty good test!

Liam Williams is not average under the high ball, Hood, he is very good.  He's completely fearless.  I know 1/2p is too, but LW has a height advantage.

I wasn't sure about LW's pace and skill, but his skills have been coming on nicely (he's quite a late starter in pro rugby, didn't do the academies or any of that), and his pace didn't look bad on Saturday.

I wouldn't say he's better than 1/2p at FB just because of that one game, however, his form when given the opportunity suggests we might re-think the back 3, at least for some games.  I wouldn't ditch Cuthbert in a hurry, though, he's a lethal finisher.  Wales didn't seem to move the ball to his wing that much this 6N

Fair enough, happy to concede, I may have seen him on a few off days.

Do you watch a lot of celtic league rugby then? As he doesn't have that many international caps...

TBF in both matches against Quins Jordan Williams looked the much better player. Even in the one we were dominated by Scarlets Brown completely outplayed Sanjay so maybe Hood watched that

LordDowlais wrote:What we all need to remember is, that Leigh Halfpenny was only moved to fullback out of necessity, the thing is when Lee Byrne went to France he was our only international level fullback we had, Leigh Halfpenny at the time was a wing for both the Blues and Wales, heck he was even seen as the ideal replacement for Shane Williams, but he was moved to fullback where he concentrated on his kicking game and positioning and until now he has not really had any competition for that position, Halfpenny would be world class on either the wing or at fullback, I just see him as a better winger than fullback, and Liam Williams as a better fullback than wing, so why Gatland insists on playing them the other way around just baffles me.

The way Cuthbert played for the Blues Friday I dont think it will be long before we see Halfpenny on the wing with Williams at 15.

Cuthbert is always lazy at club level