Booing kickers - the hyprocisy!!!

Bit on the boards about Farrell getting booed during his goal kicks at Ravenhill last night. Not going to go into the ins and outs of that but there is a more general debate about the "respect the kicker" mantra that lots of rugby folk seem to think separates them from other sports.

Let me preface my remarks - I'm a 60-something Ireland, Leinster (and then the other Irish provinces) fan for an awful long time so I'm no johnny-come-lately to rugby. That said, I think there's an awful lot of bullsh1t written about respecting the kickers during goal kicks. Obvious logic to that is that when an opposing player is waiting to receive a box kick then we should all stay quiet until he catches the ball - "respect the receiver"!!! What's the difference.

I know people say that the reverential hush at Thomond and the Irish grounds actually puts the opposing kicker off - but sorry I don't buy that. Top goal kickers these day shut out both the noise and the silence. In France, they clap rhythmically when their own goal kicker is lining up. Opposition goal kickers in NZ, Aus and SA put up with a cacophony!

Sorry, but I don't think there's anything the least bit unsporting about trying to put the opposition kicker or receiver off - it's part of the advantage of playing at home. And the longer we go on with the po-faced holier-than-thou attitude then the more advantage we hand to the opposition. For me, I think the likes of Carter, Sexton, Wilkinson, Farrell, Steyn, 1/2p, Parra etc thrive on the combative atmosphere and aren't put off in the least. Don't think it was booing that put Farrell off last night - he just had a stinker with the boot

No doubt, they are loads out there who think I'm polluting rugby's traditions but hey that's life....

I think it's just a case that some think the 'Irish' (massive generalisation) are a bit sanctimonious about booing kickers. Therefore whenever Irish fans boo kickers it gets some interest.

Personally I don't like it. I prefer positive support over negative.

HammerofThunor wrote:Personally I don't like it. I prefer positive support over negative.

Thats my view as well. I never boo kickers or referees. I have in the past tried to get people not to do this at Ireland matches and been shouted down. I remember when Dan Parks kicked the goal that beat us in Croke Park I got into it with some guy who thought it was appropriate to boo that kick. The lesson is, I missed the kick. I go to watch rugby not to try and police the fans! In my experience, if you try and intervene with a booee it just ends in grief so why bother? I don't anymore.

I'm pretty much resigned to it though. You'll find the Ravenhill crowd is very far from there worst. A lot of people are getting stuck in based on the TV feed but every single report I've seen from Sarries fans who were at the match so far have nothing but good things to say about the atmosphere.

I am a nearly 50 year old Munster/Irish supporter. I think it all started with the booing of the national anthems and then for some reason in Munster respect for the kicker became the norm (cant remember why myself) as have been at Munster senior cup games in the 80's and respect isnt something that was high on the agenda.

Personally I dont care if there is booing or not. I like the French approach which is just a load of noise either for or against the kicker. To be honest I dont think it matters some people take it very seriously though. First time I saw it being an issue was at a Young Munster/Dolphin game in Musgrave park...YM had a penalty and some kids were kicking the old style ads at the side of the pitch. An auld fella from YM (was about 80) hobbled up with his umbrella and whacked them....funniest thing ever.

I don't like the booing of kickers either.

It has quite clearly rubbed off on the family as our youngest always demands complete silence from the room for kicks when we are watching any rugby on the telly. Even if the match was played several hundred miles away and several days earlier.

If you listen very carefully though you can hear her whispering to herself,

"Miss it! Miiss it!"

When the opposition are going for goal!

The booing was on one occasion after the ref had called back a breakaway run by an Ulster player - because of a knock on which the assistant referee stated was deliberate - hence a penalty was awarded. The booing was aimed at the ref's decision not at Farrell per se - he just happened to be taking the kick. The reason for the booing was because the ref was not the home sides favourite after his decision to send off Payne - hence he attracted the opprobrium of the home crowd - if anyone noticed there was also booing at the end of the match as the ref went off. Whether the sending off was appropriate or not has been discussed elsewhere - it is probably poor manners to boo the ref, but under the circumstances it is perhaps understandable that feelings were running high.

When it comes to booing, I'd say that 98% of the time I'm against it.
Was embarrassing for instance when at the Scotland-NZ game in 2012, some sections of the crowd booed Carter during his first kick at goal. No need for that.

The 2% comes in rare circumstances, such as the ending to the Scotland - Australia game in 09, where Giteau had a kick to win it in overtime. In situations like that I feel that crowds are perfectly entitled to give the kicker laldy.

The same respect for a kicker really, by parallel logic, ought to be granted for in-play kick receivers.

So long as one is culturally acceptable, then so should t'other.

I don't make a noise during kicks, but really have no problem with booing from others. I think the whole silence for the kicker brigade are a bit on the sanctimonious side frankly. That said individual idiots shouting things out are a pain in the arse, but otherwise boo away I say...

I grew up watching Rugby League as a kid, silence for the kicker actually seemed strange to me when I first started watching/ playing Union as a 13 year old. I don't mind either way if people boo my team's kicker (Although I'll generally stay silent for theirs), I just don't like the preciousness that comes with it sometimes.

brennomac well obviously there are rules in place that mean you shouldn't take out the receiver whilst he's in the air and has caught the ball.

I get the impression from some fans that they want it to be legal to do so unless of course if it happens to their players.

It's natural for a fan to excuse their player's faults and focus on the faults of the opposition.

Double standards exist in ample supply on here in my opinion.

As for booing - again I feel it's double standards. Would Ulster fans boo Bowe or Trimble if they started swallow diving I wonder? Would they vent their hatred? I sincerely doubt it.


If people want to boo by all means let them do it but doesn't mean one needs to approve of it.

Personally I think booing is worse than a swallow dive but that's just me. It could also be interpreted as being disrespectful and unsporting.

People get irritated by different things.

I would certainly be very annoyed if any of our players made a habit of that beshocked. Very, very annoyed. If you knew anything about Bowe or Trimble as people you'd know it isn't in their character to act like that. Not that there haven't been the usual proportion of twits playing for Ulster over the years that you get in any walk of life; you get arrogant idiots everywhere and Ulster has had a few as well. It's just that Bowe and Trimble aren't cut from that kind of cloth.

By the same token you don't have to defend Ashton for doing it. Would Ulster fans boo Bowe for doing it? No way. But other fans would and they would be totally within their rights. I'd also be quite ashamed if it was one of my players. I would hope that if an Ulster player did that our coach would have the balls to replace him but I doubt it would happen to be honest. It's professional sport and winning is everything. The thing with Ashton that turns people off Saracens and England, I think, is that he's been doing this for ages. Where are the senior players in this? Why hasn't he been brought into line? You can argue the toss about disrespect but if he didn't swan dive, he would have been under the posts. If Ulster had got a late drop goal or penalty it could have literally cost his team the game.

As for booing, I condemn it apart from for something like a swallow dive but equally you always get sanctimonious snobs amongst rugby fans of all nationalities who are the first to look down their nose at other fans at the slightest pretext, normally upon fans they haven't met because they didn't travel to the game.

I mean, look below this post...

Booing the kicker? Never. Wouldn't happen in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NdvuYcvk5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZKtrdD69go#t=11m55s

Notch I understand why Ashton gets criticism for doing it - it is interpreted as disrespectful fair enough. I just feel that it's not why he does it.

I agree it would have been more intelligent to try and make the kick easier - surely the missed 2 points was a good reason to not do the dive. If it cost Sarries the game then he would have been humiliated in a very public way - it would have backfired horrifically.

I am not condemning Ulster fans for booing Ashton. I just think it's unnecessary to do so with something as trivial as a try celebration but that's just me.

I also think that disliking a team because of one player's try celebration isn't a particularly good one.

On a side note what do you guys think of mexican waves? Personally I hate them and think they are disrespectful to the players - seem to be a sign of indifference.

Hate Mexican waves and think I am right there has never been one at Ravenhill.

Think any one starting one would get an earful of abuse - good !

GLove39 wrote:When it comes to booing, I'd say that 98% of the time I'm against it.
Was embarrassing for instance when at the Scotland-NZ game in 2012, some sections of the crowd booed Carter during his first kick at goal. No need for that.

The 2% comes in rare circumstances, such as the ending to the Scotland - Australia game in 09, where Giteau had a kick to win it in overtime. In situations like that I feel that crowds are perfectly entitled to give the kicker laldy.

It's funny but I see this as worse than booing everything. If you're against it on principle (and if it's not ok 98% of the time I'm guessing you are) then to forget all that because the kick is important is effectly ignoring principle for gain. At least if you boo everything you've decided it's not important.

beshocked wrote:On a side note what do you guys think of mexican waves? Personally I hate them and think they are disrespectful to the players - seem to be a sign of indifference.

Oh I despise mexican waves. I really do. I don't know if I would call them disrespectful, never thought about it like that though I see your point, but I've always thought if you don't want to watch the game then just leave the rest of us to it!

They only happen in all-seater stadiums which is another reason to dislike any stadium that doesn't let you stand and watch the game, as was intended!

As for Chris Ashton... the only person it makes me dislike for it is Chris Ashton. He actually seems decent enough off the pitch so why the swan dives on it? Makes no sense to me.

geoff998rugby wrote:Hate Mexican waves and think I am right there has never been one at Ravenhill.

Think any one starting one would get an earful of abuse - good !

In my mind, the mexican wave signals the end of a crowd paying any attention to the game.

At the 2001 final at Parc des Princes v Stade Francais, I refused to join in the Mexican wave only to be roundly booed by my brothers.

Chaqu'un a son gout...

    et du fromage s'il vous plait

I never participate in Mexican waves but I've never been booed for it!   

Last time I was in a stadium where there was a Mexican wave, was Ireland vs Italy in the closing stages of the game where Italy were just gone. Couldn't understand it- was the game over as a contest? Yeah it was, but whether or not we could score more points was probably going to decide whether Ireland or England would be champions!

I've never got the the whole hatred towards players that celebrate with a swallow dive - i mean in the SH we get players break dancing etc and all i read is "wow, look at that!"

All players have their own way to celebrate - who are we to deny them that.

nathan wrote:I've never got the the whole hatred towards players that celebrate with a swallow dive - i mean in the SH we get players break dancing etc and all i read is "wow, look at that!"

You'll be hearing about it when they start doing it before they score, I think!

If they are going to do the swallow dive, they'd
a. better not drop it
and
b. better win

Unike Li'l Shane after he did something that Ashton could only dream of aspiring to.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/8930871/Shane-Williamss-greatest-tries.html

The other thing with booing is, it will always happen more at big games because the bigger the game the wider the appeal!

Big games always attract the boo boys in every nation, like it or not.

nathan wrote:I've never got the the whole hatred towards players that celebrate with a swallow dive - i mean in the SH we get players break dancing etc and all i read is "wow, look at that!"

All players have their own way to celebrate - who are we to deny them that.

Wheras I think look at that prat

Tom Court did a shhh sign and took some stick for it, and as a result apologized, and hasn't done it since.
Payne does some riding a donkey thing and looks like a complete idiot - and I am an Ulster fan.

The ulster fans booing of Farrell has drawn a lot of attention from the weekend, but what is everyone's opinion on the Sarries player's own attempts to disrupt the kicks?

On a few occasions (all after the booed Farrell kick if I recall correctly) the Sarries players were moving and shouting between each other in an attempt to put Jackson off.
It's understandable that there will be a degree of communication and positioning during a kick, but you generally get in position and stay there.
The players constant changing of positions and loud calling to each other was almost farsical and led to a few fans shouting at them to shut up and stop moving.

What do you think? Acceptable gamesman ship? or disrepectful?

Yeah Tom Court did some shhhh celebration at Rodney Parade, made himself look like a complete pillock. It was embarrassing!

The crowd booed the Ash Splash because the try was a celebration of artificial superior numbers rather than any excellent back play by him.

They should have cheered because Ashton was so stupid to fire up the crowd even more that they already were. It obviously motivated the Ulster players enough for McCall to give Ashton a rocket at half time and hence his rather sheepish second touch down

They should have cheered because he gave his fragile outhalf a difficult kick right beside incensed fans costing his team two points and probably more because he denied him an early confidence boost of an easy kick.

They should have cheered because his dive ensured every time he got the ball he got special notice from the crowd, so he became anxious enough to get himself offside for the Farrell crosskick, and could have cost his team the tie if it had been on camera.

Three cheers for Ashton!