Nail your colours to the mast: Froch vs Groves 2 predicitons.

by Rodney Fri May 23, 2014 12:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week now to the big British rematch, how does everyone see this one going ? Your truthful offical prediction, you'll have no place to hide when you log on after the fight.

Whoever gets the correct outcome wins a grand, prizemoney to be donated by the Mods.

I see a tepid affair, much more strategic and cautious by both fighters, with Groves winning a comfortable decision something like 117-110. With a decider to happen in November.

Cheers Rodders

by Guest Thu May 29, 2014 4:25 pm

Nico the gman wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Just took the 16/1 Froch to win in either rounds 8 or 9,that's how I see it,Froch may fight cautiously early on to avoid taking Groves big right hands,after that I see Froch pressurising and drawing Groves into his type of fight,Froch wears Groves down and stops him.

I think after all the criticism Froch has taken he will have a point to prove, coming over cool on camera but he will be seething inside,still feel Froch took the 1st fight as a formality,this time he'll be fully focused.

One things for sure I hope whether its a stoppage or points for either man,there's no controversy.
What was Yusef Mack, a genuine threat or a marking time fight til something better came along?

Froch had big plans for fights after both Groves and Mack and yet some people think he decided to take Mack more seriously than Groves. Froch is meticulous in his preparation and the idea that he decided to coast last time out and risk scuppering his chances of a headline fight in Vegas is frankly embarrassing, ridiculous and insulting to Groves.

No fighter worth his salt underestimates his opposition and I don't see Froch being foolish enough to think that he could slack off when he wasn't doing it previously. Nope, sadly it's easier for him to come out and say he wasn't properly prepared than admit Groves is actually a bloody good fighter and (gasp) he might also be slipping.

Eddie saw first hand what nearly happened to Kell Brook when he slacked off in training prior to Carson Jones and I find it difficult to believe that he would allow his biggest cash cow to do the same and risk losing them both millions.
Froch reiterated before the 1st fight that Groves wasn't in the same league as him that would suggest Froch thought it was an easy nights work,especially as he'd also dropped Groves in sparring.For me Froch underestimated Groves.Nobody's suggesting Groves isn't a good fighter,but the 3 fights prior to Groves Froch didn't look like a fighter on the slide.
Cash cow or not Eddie Hearn is the promoter and has absolutely jack all to do how a fighter trains,you think Bob Arum tells Roach how to coach Pacquiao.

The promoter/manager role has almost become combined in some camps and I'm sure Eddie keeps a close eye on his cash cows. How else did he know that Brook wasn't putting in the hours before the Jones fight? Was Kell tweeting "Tossed it off again 2day...lolz" or was Eddie in regular contact with his camp asking how it was going?

I can't imagine a promoter these days says "Right, you are fighting in 12 weeks....now **** off and don't let me hear from you until it's time to touch gloves!"

by catchweight Thu May 29, 2014 4:32 pm

Anytime Froch has lost or hasnt performed well he tells us his preparation wasnt right. Despite the prefight talk being all about how he is training like a demon to do a number on so and so and cant wait to get in the ring etc. I think Froch always trains hard and gets into good shape because deep down he is insecure and has doubts. When he doesnt win or perform then the excuses come out.

by Guest Thu May 29, 2014 4:45 pm

catchweight wrote:Anytime Froch has lost or hasnt performed well he tells us his preparation wasnt right. Despite the prefight talk being all about how he is training like a demon to do a number on so and so and cant wait to get in the ring etc. I think Froch always trains hard and gets into good shape because deep down he is insecure and has doubts. When he doesnt win or perform then the excuses come out.

Of course he has doubts and insecurities, he's human. Boxing must rank as the sport where your frailties are exposed the most. On your own in front of thousands of people with countless others watching at home and the likelihood that it will be on the internet for ever, there's a real chances you are outsmarted, physically beaten and humiliated in front of people who couldn't wouldn't last two minutes with you if they strapped the gloves on themselves but see fit to bay for your blood and criticize your every move.

Takes a brave man to put himself through the wringer time and time again, even those who aren't very good at it. Losing at tennis doesn't strip you of you manhood as completely as being beating in the boxing ring. It must be just as hard to actually be a success at it and still have people question your abilities too but when the chips are down, surely (most of the time) the only logical course of action is to say that you were beaten by the better man without blaming anything and everything else for your demise.

There are any number of fighter who can take defeat well but someone once said, "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a LOSER" There's no shame in defeat and there are few of us who can go through life never having experienced it but it that experience that should make us better men in the long run.

Hopefully Froch and Groves will come to appreciate that at some point after the weekend

by catchweight Thu May 29, 2014 4:58 pm

Let me be more specific, Froch is insecure and doubts his own boxing ability. He compensates for this by training extremelly hard because his doubts fuel him. Whenever he loses or doesnt perform well he blames poor preparation. I dont buy those excuses. Thats Froch trying deflect the blame and making excuses. I think he always trains hard and prepares well. Hes a boxer not overly blessed with fantastic talent but compensates with durability and stamina and hard work. I wouldnt hold my breath expecting much class from Froch win or lose. Hes just an unpleasant character who seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

by Knowsit17 Thu May 29, 2014 5:19 pm

The first half of their last fight was the only time I've known Froch to be so clinically outboxed and outfought apart from the Ward fight. I have little doubt that whatever happens, Froch is still slugging his heart out in round 12. He is a warrior and has a relentlessness and a persistence about him that has hardly ever let him down. But against certain fighters that's not enough and Groves is one of a select number in the nearby divisions whom I feel has the tools to win well against Froch.

Bear in mind also that Groves' chin has held in what it's been through up to now. The closest we've come to seeing him stopped was probably the last fight and even that wasn't significantly bordering on a stoppage (which is why the stoppage itself was such a scandal).

I'm not sure Froch has the temperament to put him away early. If Groves does get legitimately stopped it'll probably be due to Froch's relentlessness paying off in the later rounds imo. I'd personally be surprised if Groves actually plans to push for the stoppage early as his comments indicate. Last time he didn't rush forward swinging, he waited for the openings and just had Froch all over the place for the first 6 rounds. What other solution would be more logical than to simply exploit one's superior technical skills again, if it's reasonably beyond doubt that Groves is more technically skilled? This is where we'll get to review his own temperament more conclusively and determine whether or not he's too hot-headed to capitalise on his considerable talent.

Can hardly wait to see it!!

by tunes666 Thu May 29, 2014 5:29 pm

milkyboy wrote:
tunes666 wrote:Not sure if its just me being hopeful but for some reason I cant see Froch loosing.

I see him giving Groves much more respect, But see the fight going like last time. I think Groves will get the better of the first 6 rounds and once his Froch works the power off of Groves Shots I see him stopping him. 10th, 11th rnd Stoppage.

For me the way Groves may win it is boxing, in and out, on the back foot making Froch think twice about coming in, nicking rounds and winning a decision. But as of yet am not convinced he has it in the tank to do it for 12 rounds.

As Dangerous as he is he is not really a smooth operator, he is intense quick and stiff, hard hitting but he uses allot of energy fighting in the style he does, defensively and offensively.. All that power and speed is not free.

Its just you being hopeful tunes

Seriously, the scenario you portray is a distinct possibility, and I agree with much of what you say. Considering its on the subject of froch groves, that may be a first!

Well the way I see it, Froch was beat up probably more so that Johnson was when fighting Groves (in the first 6 or so rounds that is).. Which for me indicates that it was not just a case of Groves being good but also Froch not being quite as good as he could be.. As I don't think Johnson was quicker or better than Froch, .. Can a game Froch really not do any better than a spent Johnston?

in fact not even Ward spanked Froch as much as Groves did in the first 6 or so rounds.. So Im just not convinced that Groves is THAT good, and I think there must have also been a factor of Froch not completely doing what he can.

This being said, If we are seeing a decline im Froch and hence the surprising performance in the last fight, then the chances are this one will be over probably in the first 4 rounds or so.. BUT, if in the last fight Froch did not prepare as well and was not mentally right as some suggest, then I cant see Groves stopping him and Im not sure he can outbox him trouble free for 12 rounds... as in the last fight we saw, as soon as Froch can get him in the trenches in the tired rounds, he is where he is most happy.

For me the whole fight comes down to, is Froch getting old?, did he take a win for Granted in the last fight?. Or is Groves the best SM fighter of our generation.

by Nico the gman Thu May 29, 2014 8:59 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Just took the 16/1 Froch to win in either rounds 8 or 9,that's how I see it,Froch may fight cautiously early on to avoid taking Groves big right hands,after that I see Froch pressurising and drawing Groves into his type of fight,Froch wears Groves down and stops him.

I think after all the criticism Froch has taken he will have a point to prove, coming over cool on camera but he will be seething inside,still feel Froch took the 1st fight as a formality,this time he'll be fully focused.

One things for sure I hope whether its a stoppage or points for either man,there's no controversy.
What was Yusef Mack, a genuine threat or a marking time fight til something better came along?

Froch had big plans for fights after both Groves and Mack and yet some people think he decided to take Mack more seriously than Groves. Froch is meticulous in his preparation and the idea that he decided to coast last time out and risk scuppering his chances of a headline fight in Vegas is frankly embarrassing, ridiculous and insulting to Groves.

No fighter worth his salt underestimates his opposition and I don't see Froch being foolish enough to think that he could slack off when he wasn't doing it previously. Nope, sadly it's easier for him to come out and say he wasn't properly prepared than admit Groves is actually a bloody good fighter and (gasp) he might also be slipping.

Eddie saw first hand what nearly happened to Kell Brook when he slacked off in training prior to Carson Jones and I find it difficult to believe that he would allow his biggest cash cow to do the same and risk losing them both millions.
Froch reiterated before the 1st fight that Groves wasn't in the same league as him that would suggest Froch thought it was an easy nights work,especially as he'd also dropped Groves in sparring.For me Froch underestimated Groves.Nobody's suggesting Groves isn't a good fighter,but the 3 fights prior to Groves Froch didn't look like a fighter on the slide.
Cash cow or not Eddie Hearn is the promoter and has absolutely jack all to do how a fighter trains,you think Bob Arum tells Roach how to coach Pacquiao.
The promoter/manager role has almost become combined in some camps and I'm sure Eddie keeps a close eye on his cash cows. How else did he know that Brook wasn't putting in the hours before the Jones fight? Was Kell tweeting "Tossed it off again 2day...lolz" or was Eddie in regular contact with his camp asking how it was going?

I can't imagine a promoter these days says "Right, you are fighting in 12 weeks....now **** off and don't let me hear from you until it's time to touch gloves!"

A promoter has nothing to do with the preparation of a fighter in terms of coaching and training, yes he may well ask if everythings going well, and is it just possible after the Brook, Jones fight that Brook actually told Hearns he didn't feel he'd put enough work into his preparation for the 1st fight or wouldn't he be allowed to speak for himself.

by catchweight Thu May 29, 2014 9:38 pm

I dont think Froch overlooked Groves. He had plenty of motivation for the fight. Groves has a better skillset than Froch with superior speed. He was able to make this count for the majority of the fight. Froch has blamed poor prepartation for the performances in Groves, Johnson, Kessler I and Ward.

by **hampo17** Fri May 30, 2014 7:53 am

Everyone keeps talking about Froch not preparing properly, Fitzpatrick has said the same thing about Groves. Apparently he planned his own training camp last time, he arranged all the runs and did them by himself, however this time Paddy has taken over and brought a strength and conditioning coach onboard to help.

Is it possible Groves didn't put the hard yards in last time and that's why he ran out of gas?

by TopHat24/7 Fri May 30, 2014 8:13 am

Was going to say, has everyone forgot that Groves actually ditched his trainer half way through prepping for their previous fight?

If anyone had their preperation disrupted it was George.

by Nico the gman Fri May 30, 2014 12:42 pm

McCracken has alway's been respected throughout the game for his honesty, and stated Froch hadn't prepared properly for the 1st fight, so McCracken's honesty must now be taken into question,if Froch was fully prepared for the 1st fight as some on here think.

by **owen10ozzy** Fri May 30, 2014 12:48 pm

Nico - You seem to think that they are both the pillar of honesty in the boxing world. If McCracken was that honest he wouldn't be stating that Froch can outbox George Groves...nor would he have said that Froch has a good defence....because both are lies...

Both have stated before previous losing/poor performances, that training has been bang on and that it's been an excellent camp; only to come out with a differing view after said defeat or poor performance.

There not the only ones to do it; but I don't for a second believe that the 'hadn't prepared properly' holds as much truth as either would have you believe....if it really is then not only is Froch a poor professional but McCracken's reputation as an elite boxing trainer should be questioned!

by Nico the gman Fri May 30, 2014 1:03 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Nico - You seem to think that they are both the pillar of honesty in the boxing world. If McCracken was that honest he wouldn't be stating that Froch can outbox George Groves...nor would he have said that Froch has a good defence....because both are lies...

Both have stated before previous losing/poor performances, that training has been bang on and that it's been an excellent camp; only to come out with a differing view after said defeat or poor performance.

There not the only ones to do it; but I don't for a second believe that the 'hadn't prepared properly' holds as much truth as either would have you believe....if it really is then not only is Froch a poor professional but McCracken's reputation as an elite boxing trainer should be questioned!

We'll find out tomorrow night won't we, if Froch fights 100% better and beats Groves then the under prepared theory holds water,if Grove's batters Froch and knocks him out then no excuses its as simple as that.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri May 30, 2014 1:05 pm

About the only thing I get to nail to the mast these days...

Froch late is the smart call........... thumbsup

Then again Biggs ko Tyson and Hatton ko 6 Manny.............Are some of my old predictions..

by Valero's Conscience Fri May 30, 2014 1:07 pm

So tough for me.

Last minute change for and going with Groves inside 12 rounds.

Also - if Froch was to lose, would he retire or rematch?

by Nico the gman Fri May 30, 2014 1:11 pm

Valero's Conscience wrote:So tough for me.

Last minute change for and going with Groves inside 12 rounds.

Also - if Froch was to lose, would he retire or rematch?

If Froch did lose I think it would depend on the manner in which he lost, out boxed and knocked out may call it a day, narrowly out pointed, may try for a rematch.

by Valero's Conscience Fri May 30, 2014 1:50 pm

Nico the gman wrote:
Valero's Conscience wrote:So tough for me.

Last minute change for and going with Groves inside 12 rounds.

Also - if Froch was to lose, would he retire or rematch?
If Froch did lose I think it would depend on the manner in which he lost, out boxed and knocked out may call it a day, narrowly out pointed, may try for a rematch.

Agreed, if outboxed or KO'd he would have been outclassed over the two fights and third would be pointless for Froch other than money.

by KingMonkey Fri May 30, 2014 2:04 pm

No matter what is said I don't think Froch was mentally prepared last time. I don't think he trained any less or put in any less work (age could dictate that he perhaps should have to work harder... dunno) but he definitely didn't take Groves seriously. So is that under prepared? Perhaps.

fwiw I think Groves' prediction of the left hook is a masterstroke. What with the right hand comments being backed up in the first fight calling the left hook is something else to occupy Froch's already scrambled brain. Can you imagine if Groves decks him with the left hook now?! Froch HAS to be looking for it, the seed is sown, and all the time we all know it is more likely to be the right that does the damage.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri May 30, 2014 2:09 pm

KingMonkey wrote:

fwiw I think Groves' prediction of the left hook is a masterstroke. What with the right hand comments being backed up in the first fight calling the left hook is something else to occupy Froch's already scrambled brain. Can you imagine if Groves decks him with the left hook now?

You've convinced me..... Froch is screwed.......Game over .......Picking Groves now.....

by Gerry SA Fri May 30, 2014 2:35 pm

Picking Groves as I did the same for the first bout.

Secondly Groves is a Londoner, I live in London. So best to support the home town kid.

by TopHat24/7 Fri May 30, 2014 2:42 pm

For anyone interested, here's live footage of the weigh in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpDdf3My6c&app=desktop

AJ just got off the scales.

by Hammersmith harrier Fri May 30, 2014 4:21 pm

I say it all the time Owen but there's more than one way to skin a cat, if Groves is outfought then by extension he's been outboxed, it's all part of the game and too many considered fancy skills the only way to outbox somebody.

by Strongback Fri May 30, 2014 5:48 pm

Still see Froch winning and I don't seem him taking the same punishment he did last time.

by 3fingers Fri May 30, 2014 7:06 pm

We're all in agreement groves does everything better than froch.

I hope we all realise it takes 5 or 6 rounds to clear your head after the kind of knockdown froch suffered. That in mind, Groves fought a lesser version of froch for a significant part of the fight. Froch was very cagey after the first.

I wouldn't be suprised if froch stopped groves in 6. But I wouldn't be surprised if groves won UD. I wouldnt be suprised if froch stopped groves late. I wouldn't be suprised if groves employed different tactics fights as back foot counter puncher. I wouldn't be suprised if Froch didnt open up with flurries till late. This could go so many ways. Ive never been this excited about a fight since eubank-benn 2.

by Nico the gman Fri May 30, 2014 7:29 pm

3fingers wrote:We're all in agreement groves does everything better than froch.

I hope we all realise it takes 5 or 6 rounds to clear your head after the kind of knockdown froch suffered. That in mind, Groves fought a lesser version of froch for a significant part of the fight. Froch was very cagey after the first.

I wouldn't be suprised if froch stopped groves in 6. But I wouldn't be surprised if groves won UD. I wouldnt be suprised if froch stopped groves late. I wouldn't be suprised if groves employed different tactics fights as back foot counter puncher. I wouldn't be suprised if Froch didnt open up with flurries till late. This could go so many ways. Ive never been this excited about a fight since eubank-benn 2.

Yep agreed Groves is the better boxer but not necessarily the better fighter and that may well be the key to this one,Froch is a much better fighter than he is being portrayed on here,you don't lose only 2 fights, and fight and beat world class opposition time and time again if you ain't good.Only Ward has outclassed Froch.

by **owen10ozzy** Fri May 30, 2014 7:56 pm

That's the key; Froch is the better fighter...Grove the better boxer. If Froch can pull him into a fight he becomes favourite...if he can't he will be left plodding all night whilst taking shots the face repeatedly.

Ward, Dirrell and Taylor showed how to beat Froch..with a jab and boxing ability. Groves has both.

Like Groves has said, Carl has massive technical flaws and they have been shown up before but his chin, determination and resilience/stamina have dragged him through and allowed him to come on strong when other fighters fade.

Great great fight ahead I think and one we should all savour; but sticking with my prediction of Groves getting him out before the end...possibly around the 6th!

by Hammersmith harrier Fri May 30, 2014 7:59 pm

They showed how to win rounds but only only one of them beat him.

by bellchees Fri May 30, 2014 10:17 pm

If the chin holds up and Froch is still willing to eat right hands and come forward I can't see Groves lasting the pace. Just watched the first fight again and Froch actually done better than I gave him credit for first time round. Even when taking the lead right hands from Groves he'd often wade through it and club away at the ribs, shoulders, arms and side of the head which was not pretty and not winning him any rounds but took it's toll on Groves after the 6th. Groves isn't good enough defensively to coast in rounds without taking much fire or using much energy himself, his defense is his offence combined with good footwork which takes it out of you, he can't spoil the way Floyd or Hopkins can for 3 minutes and take a round off without shipping any punishment. Groves looked knackered after the 6th and for the rest of the fight it looked to me like Froch was going to get him out of there, I see a similar fight to last time so long as Froch is willing to go through hell again he'll stop Groves, hopefully without the controversy.

by BoxingFan88 Fri May 30, 2014 11:16 pm

bellchees wrote:If the chin holds up and Froch is still willing to eat right hands and come forward I can't see Groves lasting the pace. Just watched the first fight again and Froch actually done better than I gave him credit for first time round. Even when taking the lead right hands from Groves he'd often wade through it and club away at the ribs, shoulders, arms and side of the head which was not pretty and not winning him any rounds but took it's toll on Groves after the 6th. Groves isn't good enough defensively to coast in rounds without taking much fire or using much energy himself, his defense is his offence combined with good footwork which takes it out of you, he can't spoil the way Floyd or Hopkins can for 3 minutes and take a round off without shipping any punishment. Groves looked knackered after the 6th and for the rest of the fight it looked to me like Froch was going to get him out of there, I see a similar fight to last time so long as Froch is willing to go through hell again he'll stop Groves, hopefully without the controversy.

Remember he has to eat right hands and left hooks though....

by tunes666 Sat May 31, 2014 8:40 am

hampo171 wrote:Everyone keeps talking about Froch not preparing properly, Fitzpatrick has said the same thing about Groves. Apparently he planned his own training camp last time, he arranged all the runs and did them by himself, however this time Paddy has taken over and brought a strength and conditioning coach onboard to help.

Is it possible Groves didn't put the hard yards in last time and that's why he ran out of gas?

I am not sure its a case of him not preparing properly, but I think his mind set was over confident, this showed in how he was in the lead up to the fight and even as he entered the ring and how he started the fight, looking to go toe to toe with a guy who he knew full well hits very hard... He thought it was going to be an easy nights work.

I think he genuinely felt George was not world level, now he thinks he is... how can this not effect your preparations?

Its also not all coming from Froch, but people that know and work around him who are saying his last mental position last time was not on the mark...

by tunes666 Sat May 31, 2014 8:52 am

KingMonkey wrote:No matter what is said I don't think Froch was mentally prepared last time. I don't think he trained any less or put in any less work (age could dictate that he perhaps should have to work harder... dunno) but he definitely didn't take Groves seriously. So is that under prepared? Perhaps.

fwiw I think Groves' prediction of the left hook is a masterstroke. What with the right hand comments being backed up in the first fight calling the left hook is something else to occupy Froch's already scrambled brain. Can you imagine if Groves decks him with the left hook now?! Froch HAS to be looking for it, the seed is sown, and all the time we all know it is more likely to be the right that does the damage.

The way he was even in rnd one before the knock down was... ok come on kid, lets get this over with, I want to catch last orders...
That being said, this does not mean he will not still struggle with Groves speed, But I think it will make him fight this time with more Caution and can maybe make Groves work harder for success...

by **owen10ozzy** Sat May 31, 2014 10:59 am

Has anyone at the very top level ever had to work hard for success against Froch?! Not really...it's pretty easy to come by due to his poor defence and footwork..

What made it difficult was the awkward manner in which he ducked and looped his own punches; something Ward touched on. However in his last 4 fights that awkwardness has deserted him...even in the Bute fight he wasn't moving his upper body the way he had done.

For me this fight comes down to two simple things; of which the winner will be decided..

Can Groves stick to smart boxing; just looking for big counters and boxing on the back foot off the jab.

Can Froch ride out 24 minutes of frustration and getting punched in the face to force the action and stoppage after the 8th...

by Hammersmith harrier Sat May 31, 2014 11:19 am

You don't half talk some rubbish owen, you have to work very hard for success against Froch, remind me how many of his last four fights has he lost?

by **owen10ozzy** Sat May 31, 2014 11:25 am

Of course I do Hammersmith;

So all fighters who Carl has beaten have failed to have success?! And I'm the one who talks rubbish Doh

by lambertm100 Sat May 31, 2014 11:33 am

Groves is the smarter fighter and will make the neccesary adjustments from the last fight. Groves by left hook KO in rounds 7-10. #WARGROVES! #TEAMMONGOOSE

by Nico the gman Sat May 31, 2014 11:34 am

The assumption is that Froch stands and allows Groves to punch him in the face for 6 rounds,I have a hunch McCracken will have told Froch to throw punches back.
The same Groves has been hurt by lesser punchers than Froch, namely Anderson,and Smith caught him at the end of the 1st and many(not me)feel Degale beat him in a very close fight.
This may have been early in Groves career but he was still in bother,we know his improved but he was still hurt.

Good footwork and handspeed he has Sugar Ray Leonard he ain't.

by Steffan Sat May 31, 2014 11:36 am

The Battle of England is nearly upon us

WAR GROVES AND ALL THAT

by **owen10ozzy** Sat May 31, 2014 11:41 am

It's not an assumption Nico; it happened in the first fight. He is susceptible to the right hand..always has been. Taylor hit him plenty, as did Kessler, Ward, Dirrell, Pascal and Johnson.

The questions is whether he can get close enough, close the distance and force Groves to fight inside for the majority of the night...if he does he makes Groves uncomfortable and will likely walk out the winner.

For Groves he has to box how he did in those first 6 rounds, but not press the action unnecessarily; which he did at times during the first. If he does it again then he will struggle to stay with Froch in the later rounds which you have to be able to do against Carl.

This is a fight where any prediction can leave you with egg on the face; but I just feel that it is a fight where Carl is at a similar point to Kosta Tsyzu when he faced Hatton. Think the Kessler rematch and Groves fight took a lot out of Carl and I have a feeling that he just isn't going to be able to live with Groves tonight.

by Nico the gman Sat May 31, 2014 11:41 am

owen10ozzy wrote:Of course I do Hammersmith;

So all fighters who Carl has beaten have failed to have success?! And I'm the one who talks rubbish

You didn't say that,read your own post, you said they didn't have to work hard for success against Froch,which is totally different.

by **owen10ozzy** Sat May 31, 2014 11:47 am

I don't think they did Nico; Froch was there to be hit against Kessler in the rematch..and was often when the Dane decided to use the jab.

So would you or Hammersmith say Dirrell, Taylor, Ward, or Groves had to work particularly hard to have the success they had against him during the fight?!

That would suggest they had to figure out of how to get to him and unlock his defence...they didn't. He ate alot of shots against all 5 guys...the difference on most occasions was that he had the chin, stamina and fortitude to keep going, keep forcing the action and the pace and be the stronger man come the end . There is no skill in that; just purely physical attributes his is gifted with and works hard to maintain.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat May 31, 2014 11:48 am

Nico the gman wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Of course I do Hammersmith;

So all fighters who Carl has beaten have failed to have success?! And I'm the one who talks rubbish
You didn't say that,read your own post, you said they didn't have to work hard for success against Froch,which is totally different.

Exactly, if they didn't need to work hard for success then his opponents wouldn't wilt down the stretch. The two are completely different.

by milkyboy Sat May 31, 2014 1:34 pm

Nico the gman wrote:The assumption is that Froch stands and allows Groves to punch him in the face for 6 rounds,I have a hunch McCracken will have told Froch to throw punches back.
The same Groves has been hurt by lesser punchers than Froch, namely Anderson,and Smith caught him at the end of the 1st and many(not me)feel Degale beat him in a very close fight.
This may have been early in Groves career but he was still in bother,we know his improved but he was still hurt.

Good footwork and handspeed he has Sugar Ray Leonard he ain't.

He was caught but I didn't think he was hurt by smith. Certainly in trouble against Anderson. He recovered well and turned it around. Haye says he has terrific powers of recovery. In the first fight he never got chance to show us that. So it's the big unknown for me. Can he ride the storm when it comes tonight ? Because unless there's an early blow out, he will have to at somepoint. I've always said my concern for groves is that he fights back when hurt, it's his biggest failing for me, and I expect him to get hurt at some point. That's why I have a slight leaning to froch. If groves fights with discipline he can win.

by John Bloody Wayne Sat May 31, 2014 3:35 pm

Why do sky have "experts" like Jamies Carriger, Rednapp and Danny Dyer giving their opinions on the fight? They don't know sh!t about boxing, who cares what they think?

by **hampo17** Sat May 31, 2014 3:45 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Why do sky have "experts" like Jamies Carriger, Rednapp and Danny Dyer giving their opinions on the fight? They don't know sh!t about boxing, who cares what they think?

They know as much as Steffan in fairness, although nobody around here listens to him.

by Steffan Sat May 31, 2014 4:32 pm

hampo171 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:Why do sky have "experts" like Jamies Carriger, Rednapp and Danny Dyer giving their opinions on the fight? They don't know sh!t about boxing, who cares what they think?

They know as much as Steffan in fairness, although nobody around here listens to him.

Get stuffed...Hampo the rubbish administrator

Cheers guinness

by Knowsit17 Sat May 31, 2014 4:55 pm

milkyboy wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:The assumption is that Froch stands and allows Groves to punch him in the face for 6 rounds,I have a hunch McCracken will have told Froch to throw punches back.
The same Groves has been hurt by lesser punchers than Froch, namely Anderson,and Smith caught him at the end of the 1st and many(not me)feel Degale beat him in a very close fight.
This may have been early in Groves career but he was still in bother,we know his improved but he was still hurt.

Good footwork and handspeed he has Sugar Ray Leonard he ain't.

He was caught but I didn't think he was hurt by smith. Certainly in trouble against Anderson. He recovered well and turned it around. Haye says he has terrific powers of recovery. In the first fight he never got chance to show us that. So it's the big unknown for me. Can he ride the storm when it comes tonight ? Because unless there's an early blow out, he will have to at somepoint. I've always said my concern for groves is that he fights back when hurt, it's his biggest failing for me, and I expect him to get hurt at some point. That's why I have a slight leaning to froch. If groves fights with discipline he can win.

This. When people question Groves' chin/durability I don't see any significant evidence they have to go off. Yes he's not the most elusive, yes he can and has been caught and yes he has been down and hurt in his career before now.

But the important thing to bear in mind is he's taken it and come through it so far. If it was someone like Khan fighting, who has been put to sleep early more than once, there'd be more of a reason to doubt his chances. What's more I don't feel Groves was given a fair opportunity to show whether he could make it back from Froch's onslaught at the time of the stoppage. I've seen fighters, including Khan ironically, sustain far worse punishment and still make it through the fight to win. For all we know if the fight had been allowed to continue Groves would have withstood and would be the defending champ this evening.

by **hampo17** Sat May 31, 2014 5:00 pm

Steffan wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:Why do sky have "experts" like Jamies Carriger, Rednapp and Danny Dyer giving their opinions on the fight? They don't know sh!t about boxing, who cares what they think?

They know as much as Steffan in fairness, although nobody around here listens to him.
Get stuffed...Hampo the rubbish administrator

Cheers

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 5:42 pm

Who is Barry McGuigan's pick? Whoever it is, I'll pick the other fella.

by JabMachineMK2 Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:50 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I'm leaning towards Froch, but i believe it'll be better for British boxing if Groves wins.

I've rewatched the first fight twice and I can see where Groves had his moments and why Froch performed the way he did. Froch will be forced to defend with his left hand higher this time. If he doesn't it'll go the same way. Groves was feinting and the time it took for Froch to react with his hand that low was enough for Groves to land. It happened a few times and each time when Froch was hit he'd turn his body slightly to fight back, at that point Groves was gone or another right came through. It was all to do with Froch's defense in the first 3 rounds. He was sloppy and slow because he underestimated Groves' hunger and ability. Groves actually did something incredibly clever in the second and was range finding with a right cross while setting up left hooks for more work going inside. Landing 3/4 punches to Froch's one or two. The pace he set was relentless and it was a joke of a stoppage. I had Groves ahead by some way when it was stopped - he was clever and exploited Carls weaknesses perfectly.

If you watch Froch vs Bute, you can see his weaknesses there - Bute just wasn't hungry enough to actually work on him when he had a good shot land. It wasn't as impressive as all give credit for. go an watch it. Froch didn't show an incredible level of skill, his punches were just getting through. Its made him rely on his chin and power far too much. Against Kessler he was fighting someone who was pretty deteriorated from their first encounter. Froch II vs Kessler I gets knocked out for me.

Go back further and watch vs Abraham. This is the Carl Froch we need to see. He was jabbing efficiently and he was wary of Abrahams power. This meant he was coming forward and while on his toes, circling backwards when he was under attack. The left wasn't as low and he started strong. If we see that Froch - groves hasn't got a chance of getting past round 6/7. He'll be nullified and there won't be a hope in hell he's going to land.

Could age have had an effect on Carl though? Does he have an Abraham in the tank? For me - yes. He's not too old, he's got the skill in there, he needs to become wily and not stupid. I don;t think he's going to go in like he did in the first and assume he's going to deck him.

There's also the psychology of the fight. Groves is an annoying little turd now - Froch is seeing through the mind games, he didn't first time. Think that'll play into Froch's hands because Groves wanted the first round won before the bell sounded. Thats not happening this time and I think although he's shown himself to be exceptionally talented at exploiting the weaknesses - if they're not there he could come a cropper.

Froch TKO 8 if I was a betting man.

#justsayin'

by BoxingFan88 Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:41 pm

Well I got that wrong, hold my hand up, Groves did okay up until the stoppage.

I guess there plan was to put it on Froch late, but Froch landed a peach and that was that.

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