European Rugby Challenge Cup

First topic message reminder :

In case anyone is interested, the draw for the new European Rugby Challenge Cup will take place on the 10th June.  As an Edinburgh fan, this is now where my interest in European rugby will lie!   

Thanks to Wikipedia, here is some info on the tournament:

Draw

Pool 1
Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Grenoble
FIRA 1

Pool 2
Exeter Chiefs
Bayonne
Connacht
La Rochelle

Pool 3
Stade Francais
Newport-Gwent Dragons
Newcastle Falcons
FIRA 2

Pool 4
Edinburgh
Begles Bordeaux
London Welsh
Lyon

Pool 5
Gloucester
Brive
Zebre
Oynnax

The competition will take place over nine weekends. The Pool phase will be through five Pools of four teams which will play each other home and away (six matches). The five Pool winners and the 3 best runners-up will qualify for the quarter-finals. The quarter-finals will be played at the home venues of the four best Pool winners.  Looks like there will therefore be no teams from the main competition dropping down into this one.

From an Edinburgh fan's point of view - which will be similar to a lot of other fans out there - I see this tournament as a good stepping stone to getting back into the main competition.  The less intense matches and 'easier' opponents will help with the league campaign by hopefully giving some moral boosting performances. Also, I'd say that on our day we could pretty much beat any team in the competition, which gives the players a realistic aim of actually winning something.

So not quite the main event, but there are some big teams in this competition so hopefully it will be a success.

Sorry all. The heat has gotten to me, and I might have lost touch with reality.

I imagine the other participants are all begging not to get drawn with Edinburgh. What we lack in skills we make up for in trams.

Gloucester and Edinburgh are tier 1 teams!   

IanBru wrote:Sorry all. The heat has gotten to me, and I might have lost touch with reality.

You're in good company with the other Glasgow fans.....

funnyExiledScot wrote:

IanBru wrote:Sorry all. The heat has gotten to me, and I might have lost touch with reality.

You're in good company with the other Glasgow fans.....

Very, very true, buddy!

I'm glad my French is up to Rafa's standard - it's a bit odd to have the language skip back and forth, particularly as each part isn't repeated in the other language.

Pool 1
Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Grenoble
FIRA 1

Looks very winnable from a blues perspective!

Pool 1
Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Grenoble
FIRA 1

Pool 2
Exeter Chiefs
Bayonne
Connacht
La Rochelle

Pool 3
Stade Francais
Newport-Gwent Dragons
Newcastle Falcons
FIRA 2

Pool 4
Edinburgh
Begles Bordeaux
London Welsh
Lyon

Pool 5
Gloucester
Brive
Zebre
Oynnax

Very good pool for Edinburgh!   

Pools 1, 2 and 3 look competitive

"I've just won the sweatiest man on stage award" ~ Craig Doyle, 2014.

How are London Welsh in tier 3??? Surely Oyonnax should be there ahead of them?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Very good pool for Edinburgh!   

Pools 1, 2 and 3 look competitive

If Edinburgh decide to take it seriously, there's no reason why they shouldn't progress in the competition. Exciting times!

With the leadership qualities of Mike Coman and Andries Strauss, we should breeze that group.

Still, the Edinburgh defence has been known to miss tackle bags in training so I'll holster my excitement for now.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Very good pool for Edinburgh!   

Pools 1, 2 and 3 look competitive

I wouldn't underestimate Lyon. They've just won the Pro2 by a record amount and are seriously strengthening for next season.

True, but my hope is very much that neither Lyon or Bordeaux take it overly seriously given they are likely to be fighting hard to stay afloat in that league, and same can be said of London Welsh.

I'm sure Welsh won't focus on it and my experience of Bordeaux is that they are a typical French side, not caring about away games. I feel Lyon will be a good enough side to stay up next season, so may well be able to also focus on this.

HongKongCherry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Very good pool for Edinburgh!   

Pools 1, 2 and 3 look competitive

I wouldn't underestimate Lyon.  They've just won the Pro2 by a record amount and are seriously strengthening for next season.

they need to strenghten if they want to stay up anyway. I very much doubt you will see their first choices playing in this cup. With LW being in similar situation, should be a walk in the park for the Embra. did anyone watched the draw? found it odd that rafael Ibanez was speaking in French with no subtitles.

Some superb trips for Exe - west coasts of Ireland and France - happy daze

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Some superb trips for Exe - west coasts of Ireland and France - happy daze

Just hope you get the west coast of Ireland early in the comp. before the winter sets in at the end of August.....

You'll need more than a feather hat to keep the Atlantic off you.     

Jeez aslongas you have any idea what the winter weather in Galway can be like - a Friday night howling gale in the Sportsground seems to be par for the course for Connacht home games. But then if it p1sses with rain on the weekend lots of hostelries in Galway to enjoy. As irishlondoner says those feather hats of yours don't look like they're up to a west of Ireland force 9

Ha! Ha! Stop scaring the chiefs.
But make sure they bring their scuba gear with them, as they might be sitting in the stands at the under-ocean end of the field.

As an Edinburgh fan I am not interested in this second rate competition which will be mainly played by second / third teams from small clubs. waste of time and effort. Its no stepping stone to the european cup in any way. the quality will be lower than the pro 12

I would prefer Edinburgh to concentrate on the league and not even enter this. What point is there to play Lyon seconds on a thursday infront of 3 men and a dog?

TJ wrote:As an Edinburgh fan I am not interested in this second rate competition which will be mainly played by second / third teams from small clubs.  waste of time and effort.  Its no stepping stone to the european cup in any way.  the quality will be lower than the pro 12

I would prefer Edinburgh to concentrate on the league and not even enter this.  What point is there to play Lyon seconds on a thursday infront of 3 men and a dog?

Don't hold back now TJ - say exactly what you're feeling!   

I don't see why we can't put our full effort into both.  The season really isn't that congested, especially since we aren't likely to be contesting the Pro 12 playoffs, and we wouldn't be pushing our squad too much by putting all our efforts into both competitions. In any case these games are likely to be of a lower level of competition than the Pro 12 games so it is an opportunity to rotate some players while still staying competitive.

I do hope the home games aren't on Thursday nights though as that will seriously dent the crowd numbers.  I've got rugby training on Thursday nights, as will any rugby player in Scotland!

SecretFly wrote:Ha! Ha!  Stop scaring the chiefs.  
But make sure they bring their scuba gear with them, as they might be sitting in the stands at the under-ocean end of the field.

Right lads - we're tossing for ends, Exeter do you want the deep end or the shallow end for the first half...

RDW_Scotland wrote:

TJ wrote:As an Edinburgh fan I am not interested in this second rate competition which will be mainly played by second / third teams from small clubs.  waste of time and effort.  Its no stepping stone to the european cup in any way.  the quality will be lower than the pro 12

I would prefer Edinburgh to concentrate on the league and not even enter this.  What point is there to play Lyon seconds on a thursday infront of 3 men and a dog?

Don't hold back now TJ - say exactly what you're feeling!   

I don't see why we can't put our full effort into both.  The season really isn't that congested, especially since we aren't likely to be contesting the Pro 12 playoffs, and we wouldn't be pushing our squad too much by putting all our efforts into both competitions. In any case these games are likely to be of a lower level of competition than the Pro 12 games so it is an opportunity to rotate some players while still staying competitive.

I do hope the home games aren't on Thursday nights though as that will seriously dent the crowd numbers.  I've got rugby training on Thursday nights, as will any rugby player in Scotland!

I'm pretty sure the Thursday games were on then because Sky did try and broadcast most of the 1st tier games and couldn't fit the 2nd tier elsewhere. Hopefully now they'll be on a reasonable times (probably classing with Sky or BT Champion Cup games). Hopefully it'll end up with more games televised but they only HAVE to do one a week (not sure if it's each or between them).

Can't see Edinburgh home games being overly popular with broadcasters, especially over the likes of Gloucester, Blues, London Irishs, Chiefs etc so if the game isn't being shown hopefully we can play them on a Friday.

If i were an Edinburgh fan, i'd welcome this competition as it's the only realistic opportunity to win a cup, excluding the one on the line when they play Glasgow. They're not going to challenge in the Pro12 because the top 4 is so strong, so why not enjoy the chance of silverware and aim for a top 6 showing in the league in the meantime?

Frankly I see this as a chance to test alternative players within the squad, and as RDW suggests it's not like the fixture list is particularly congested for Edinburgh.

Good opportunity to try out McInally at hooker, give the Toolis brothers a game, perhaps give Hamish Watson a shot and give S H-C 80 minutes. Maybe also give our new young wingers a crack at it.

gcBlues wrote:If i were an Edinburgh fan, i'd welcome this competition as it's the only realistic opportunity to win a cup, excluding the one on the line when they play Glasgow. They're not going to challenge in the Pro12 because the top 4 is so strong, so why not enjoy the chance of silverware and aim for a top 6 showing in the league in the meantime?

I am in full agreement!

gcBlues wrote:Pool 1
Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Grenoble
FIRA 1

Looks very winnable from a blues perspective!

Also looks very winnable from an Irish perspective, and I suspect also very winnable from a Grenoble perspective.

gcBlues wrote:If i were an Edinburgh fan, i'd welcome this competition as it's the only realistic opportunity to win a cup, excluding the one on the line when they play Glasgow. They're not going to challenge in the Pro12 because the top 4 is so strong, so why not enjoy the chance of silverware and aim for a top 6 showing in the league in the meantime?

does top 6 qualify for europe ? ie HK cup V2 ?

In all probability yes, but if the top 5 were the 4 Irish plus Glasgow then no as the 6th and 7th qualifiers would be the highest placed Welsh and Italian sides.

Doesn't look like Exeter will be taking it particularly seriously: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27791916 - shame, but somewhat inevitable

Baxter is right though - reaching the top tier European competition is the Holy Grail, and that means targeting the Premiership.

So there we are - Exeter admitting they will not take this competition seriously - as will most other teams.

It's still a good opportunity though to test areas of the squad. Edinburgh could deploy a "European" 23 as follows:

1.Andress 2.McInally 3.McQuillan 4.Atkins 5.B Toolis 6.Leonardi 7.Watson 8.Grant 9.Hidalgo-Clyne 10.Bezzy 11.Farndale 12.Strauss(c) 13.Dean 14.Hoyland 15.Brown

16.Berghan 17.Cochrane 18.Dell 19.A Toolis 20.Bradbury/Ritchie 21.Kennedy 22.Dominguez 23.McLennan

It would really allow Solomons to take a look at the whole squad, and give some of the young SQ players a chance to shine and prove themselves.

I'd really look forward to seeing that 23 play.

I actually think we should use it for first team development and go for it! Make some changes to freshen up the squad, but not wholesale changes. Comes down to individual circumstances game by game really. The pre-christmas games should definitely be a strong team going out IMO.

I do think we can compete on both fronts easily without stretching the squad

But when else are we going to be able to see what players like Farndale, Deans and Hoyland can do, if not against Lyon and Bordeaux-Begles?

Do Nel, Ford, Gilchrist, Du Preez, Denton, Heathcote, Scott, Visser and Fife really need to play in these games?

Whilst there may be a happy medium between the 1st XV and the rather raw and untested side I'd suggested above, I think we need to be using opportunities like these games to give 80 minutes to players who are otherwise being sent to Ayr etc. at the weekends. Give them some glamour....like London Welsh away....

One of Solomons' strengths and weaknesses so far has been continuity. Bradley couldn't select the same set of players for consecutive 5 minute periods, whereas Solomons' isn't happy until his players have broken records for consecutive minutes played. Fine with that in the Rabo, but these games could really be used to look at the wider squad, and I hope Solomons grabs the opportunity.

TJ wrote:So there we are - Exeter admitting they will not take this competition seriously  - as will most other teams.  

That isnt exactly true. What he says is that his main aim is the AP but he is enthusiastic about playing new opposition and the effects of playing in this competition will have on Exeter.

funnyExiledScot wrote:But when else are we going to be able to see what players like Farndale, Deans and Hoyland can do, if not against Lyon and Bordeaux-Begles?

Do Nel, Ford, Gilchrist, Du Preez, Denton, Heathcote, Scott, Visser and Fife really need to play in these games?

Whilst there may be a happy medium between the 1st XV and the rather raw and untested side I'd suggested above, I think we need to be using opportunities like these games to give 80 minutes to players who are otherwise being sent to Ayr etc. at the weekends. Give them some glamour....like London Welsh away....

One of Solomons' strengths and weaknesses so far has been continuity. Bradley couldn't select the same set of players for consecutive 5 minute periods, whereas Solomons' isn't happy until his players have broken records for consecutive minutes played. Fine with that in the Rabo, but these games could really be used to look at the wider squad, and I hope Solomons grabs the opportunity.

You're right - we need a happy medium. Be competitive and go for it, but use it as a chance to test new players. I just don't think it should be 23 New players!

lostinwales wrote:

TJ wrote:So there we are - Exeter admitting they will not take this competition seriously  - as will most other teams.  

That isnt exactly true. What he says is that his main aim is the AP but he is enthusiastic about playing new opposition and the effects of playing in this competition will have on Exeter.

It is 100% true - and they are not the only ones. No one will take this seriously. The standard will be poor as a result - ( lower than the pro 12 according to one poster above) French TV are not interested. Are there any serious broadcasters involved - have they paid owt for this?

Seriously who is interested in second rank teams playing their second teams in a meaningless competition?

TJ, I was hoping that since you had no interest in the competition you'd stay away from the threads discussing it. Bitching and moaning on and on about how crap it is tedious.

It's going to be a better competition this year. Most of the terrible Italian clubs will be out, the Portuguese/Spanish clubs will be out, and they now have that 3rd tier qualifying competition that will include clubs from Romania, Georgia, Russia, Italy, and Spain/Portugal.

Fair enough. I just hate to see folk saying how great it is when teams openly admit they won't be trying.

Why not wait until it's actually started before judging based on preconceived notions?

And who's sayings it's great? Some are saying it can be a useful competition for development, or just winning trophies. Others are saying it'll be better than last yet. Hardly grand claims.

If the right folks don't start winning again, it'll all be considered a dud again quite quickly and negotiations will open up again. It's a competition designed -actively designed - now to bring about wins for Nations with the large TV aerial numbers as that's where the product placement sponsorship market is, innit and all that kind of jazz.

It's a sham, designed to promote products to the largest bum sitting populations. A glistening new advertising board to sell to the highest bidder.

Yep. Because the calls for change in 1999 and 2007 were because the French and English weren't winning. They could see the mighty mighty Irish coming over the horizon and were quaking in their boots.

The arrogance is astounding.

HammerofThunor wrote:Yep. Because the calls for change in 1999 and 2007 were because the French and English weren't winning. They could see the mighty mighty Irish coming over the horizon and were quaking in their boots.

The arrogance is astounding.

It's a sham, designed to advance the winning potential of high density TV aerial chimney pot Nations, Hammer.  It's a brand new advertising board ready for the mega bucks Coke'n'Iceland'n'Mercedes'n'WhateverYou'reHavingYourself deals down the line - and that requires that the high density Chimney pot Nations have the biggest slice of the action to attract the chimney pot viewers to attract the product advertising leaches.  

I'll repeat it a third time if needed

Pool 2
Exeter Chiefs
Bayonne
Connacht
La Rochelle

Well, I encourage everyone to ake advantage of the Rugby to make a trip to La Rochelle. The Île de Ré at La Rochelle harbour is worth the trip anytime. Great piece of history and pretty impressive.

SecretFly wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Yep. Because the calls for change in 1999 and 2007 were because the French and English weren't winning. They could see the mighty mighty Irish coming over the horizon and were quaking in their boots.

The arrogance is astounding.

It's a sham, designed to advance the winning potential of high density TV aerial chimney pot Nations, Hammer.  It's a brand new advertising board ready for the mega bucks Coke'n'Iceland'n'Mercedes'n'WhateverYou'reHavingYourself deals down the line - and that requires that the high density Chimney pot Nations have the biggest slice of the action to attract the chimney pot viewers to attract the product advertising leaches.  

I'll repeat it a third time if needed

You can say it as many times as you like. Doesn't make it any less complete cowpat

SecretFly wrote:If the right folks don't start winning again, it'll all be considered a dud again quite quickly and negotiations will open up again.  It's a competition designed -actively designed - now to bring about wins for Nations with the large TV aerial numbers as that's where the product placement sponsorship market is, innit and all that kind of jazz.  

It's a sham, designed to promote products to the largest bum sitting populations.  A glistening new advertising board to sell to the highest bidder.

Well, not for nothing, but UK and Ireland do have amongst the highest Obesity rates in Europe.  Probably a direct correlation to the largest bum sitting countries.

Source (aha! You didn't think I had a source for that, did you?):  http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/9789264183896-en/02/07/g2-07-02.html?itemId=/content/chapter/9789264183896-26-en&_csp_=051b7f1a7a00be030ba5033520b8c1ba