The Official *England's Journey to the Promised Land* Thread

by Duty281 Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:03 am

First topic message reminder :

"And here comes Hurst, he's got...some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now! It's four!"
England, despite drastically underachieving, are one of only eight nations to win the World Cup.

So here we are then, the eve of yet another FIFA World Cup, the grandest sporting tournament of them all. For the under-hyped England team, it's another chance to add to their one solitary World Cup and bring football home.

"Oh and he left Cooper standing...Pele! What a save! Gordon Banks!"
The greatest goalkeeper of all time makes the greatest save of all time.

The conception is that England will be lucky to make it past the group stage. The reality is that 2014 is the best chance of winning the World Cup since 1970, for the Three Lions. It is a squad largely unburdened by previous failure. It is a squad free of expectation. It is a squad that has the perfect balance between youth and experience. It is a squad fantastically prepared, tactically fluid in its play-making and with a wonderful manager at the helm.

"And Moore stops him! What a player this fellow is."
Now that was simply the greatest challenge of all time, made by the greatest centre-half of all time.

England are ready to win the World Cup.

"There's a header in there, and a great chance for the goal and it's there! Bryan Robson!"
Captain Marvel scores the quickest meaningful World Cup goal of all time.

In defence, Joe Hart has bounced back from his early season failings better than ever, and is all set to prove himself as one of the world's best goalkeepers this summer. Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are a good partnership at the heart of the defence. Leighton Baines is solid, and Glen Johnson is...um..not the worst full-back in the world. The English shield wall won't concede many goals this summer, they never do; qualifying and history shows us that. And the depth remains solid.

Now is the time, that everyone sees/You never give up, that's how it should be/Don't get caught, make your own break/Express yourself, don't give it away.
That might bring back memories of when England last made a World Cup Semi-Final.

In the centre of midfield, Steven Gerrard has come off one of his best seasons for many years, fully enjoying his new holding role. Accompanying him will be his club team-mate, Jordan Henderson, who has rapidly settled into the England set-up despite not playing a single minute of qualifying. Frank Lampard adds the experience, and Jack Wilshere gives the style and energy of youth, both from the bench.

Three Lions on the shirt/Jules Rimet still gleaming/No more years of hurt/No more need for dreaming.
And this classic still resonates loud and true.

On the wings, England's main strength this year, Hodgson's team have a vast array of options. Danny Welbeck is as capable as ever out wide. Raheem Sterling is a superb talent with an eye for goal, plus enough pace and skill to trouble any defence in the world. Adam Lallana is as deft as they come: so very crafty, so skilled, so clever. And Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might just have the greatest potential of the lot, combining all the aforementioned assets. Not forgetting James Milner, who gives England crucial depth and brilliant crossing ability.

"Here's Gascoigne..oh brilliant! Oh yes! Oh yes!"
Just technically brilliant.

Up front, Daniel Sturridge and Wayne Rooney together means England have, at the very least, a good strike pairing. Such a strike pairing haven't been seen for the England team since the days of Owen and Rooney at Euro 2004...or perhaps Shearer and Sheringham in Euro '96. Both Sturridge and Rooney have had great seasons for their clubs; the former is still in form, the latter is working hard to find his. And Rickie Lambert, who has also had a great season for his club, completes the striking package by offering a more-than-decent goalscoring threat from the bench. And he's not too shabby from twelve yards, either.

"Oh Owen's through again for England, what a chance for the hat-trick here. Owen! Oh this is getting better and better and better!"
England stuff the Germans in Munich..O happy day.

Then there's Roy Hodgson. A fabulous manager who has given England direction, tactical improvement and has improved their reputation off-the-field massively in the short space of two years. He's integrated many new players into the team, prepared them superbly and, after not being a million miles away from shocking the footballing world at Euro 2012, strolled through qualifying. A man with World Cup experience, he's certainly the best manager England have had since, at least, Sir Bobby Robson.

"Captain's example, David Beckham. England lead Argentina - those three little words that mean so much!"
And that was the last time England had a major win at a tournament.

After the humilation in South Africa, it's difficult to believe that England would be standing on the precipice of world glory just four years later. And here we are. England are seven games from winning their second World Cup. Football's greatest prize has, for too long, been absent from England's green and pleasant land.

"And Gerrard has found a way into the box, and he has found the net! And England are heading to the World Cup Finals!"
England seal qualification with a 2-0 win.

Bring her home, Roy, bring football home. Back to where she belongs.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:37 am

Why on earth is the media getting this credit for the youth? There is nice evidence of him picking players before the clamour anyway.

We are now a young side playing with better possession, more intensity, more pace and more attacking verve than you'll have seen an England team play with for about 10 years. You saw how we played, you can see the make up of the squad. It would be an absolutely idiotic decision to get rid of him.

The side, like you said, is going in a good direction. Who has overseen that? Eriksson didn't get us playing like this, McLaren didn't, Capello didn't. But let's just chuck a man out because of your perception of how he has to coach.

by Stella Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:47 am

He may revert to type after the Italy loss?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:50 am

He may start singing Beach Boys songs in a bikini at Glastonbury, but you can't really judge him on anything till it happens

by Stella Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:50 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He may start singing Beach Boys songs in a bikini at Glastonbury, but you can't really judge him on anything till it happens

That would be fun fun fun!

by Guest Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:00 am

The media (like the rest of us) are blessed with 20/20 hindsight and it's galling in the extreme. Read Chief WUM Adrian Durham's article today that England's obsession with Pirlo lead them to leaving own version of him at home...Michael Carrick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever Hodgson does he'll be slated. Pick Rooney....slated, leave Rooney out....slated.

by Stella Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:02 am

DAVE667 wrote:The media (like the rest of us) are blessed with 20/20 hindsight and it's galling in the extreme. Read Chief WUM Adrian Durham's article today that England's obsession with Pirlo lead them to leaving own version of him at home...Michael Carrick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever Hodgson does he'll be slated. Pick Rooney....slated, leave Rooney out....slated.

Of course he will. Not everyone will be happy. I would keep him in. We're not blessed with players with vision.

by Breadvan Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:04 am

Agree with GSC that Roy should carry on to the Euro 16 tourney. No matter how we do in the next 2 games. I do think Eng would untimately benefit from a younger modern coach to take the squad forward.

by Guest Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:10 am

Breadvan wrote:Agree with GSC that Roy should carry on to the Euro 16 tourney. No matter how we do in the next 2 games. I do think Eng would untimately benefit from a younger modern coach to take the squad forward.

So you want Roy to continue but you think & want a new younger modern coach to take us forward. picard

If we don't get out the group, Roy must go. Why would we keep him for a third tournament, he'd fail again, just like the two times his tactics have failed to keep Pirlo quiet.

by Guest Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:13 am

Stella wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:The media (like the rest of us) are blessed with 20/20 hindsight and it's galling in the extreme. Read Chief WUM Adrian Durham's article today that England's obsession with Pirlo lead them to leaving own version of him at home...Michael Carrick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever Hodgson does he'll be slated. Pick Rooney....slated, leave Rooney out....slated.

Of course he will. Not everyone will be happy. I would keep him in. We're not blessed with players with vision.

Problem is, even if England win the World Cup without, for example, playing Rooney, there'd be some idiot slating Hodgson for it. As for not having players with vision, I think that's a tad harsh, like Ferdinand said, if Pirlo had played that pass that Sterling played for England's goal, most people would be rushing off to fellate the Italian maestro in acknowledgment of his genius. The pro-Italian/Pirlo bias from the BBC was sickening.

I remember many Wimbledon's ago when Steffi Graf played a cross court shot and Dan Maskell nearly ejeculated on air. A few days later, some unseeded girl played a virtually identical shot but nary an eyebrow was raised.

We seemed reluctant to praise our players too highly as if they fail to reach our ridiculously high expectations they get hammered into the ground. Last night they were talking about Ronaldo singlehandedly trying to salvage the game for Portugal....b*ll*cks...he couldn't do it if he cloned himself (probably cos they'd be fighting over who got to look at themselves on the big screen tv) but let's praise him at every turn as it's blasphemous to do otherwise.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:15 am

As many passes as Pirlo had, there is no way you can compare his running of the game in 2012 to the 2014 game.

by Stella Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:21 am

DAVE667 wrote:
Stella wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:The media (like the rest of us) are blessed with 20/20 hindsight and it's galling in the extreme. Read Chief WUM Adrian Durham's article today that England's obsession with Pirlo lead them to leaving own version of him at home...Michael Carrick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever Hodgson does he'll be slated. Pick Rooney....slated, leave Rooney out....slated.

Of course he will. Not everyone will be happy. I would keep him in. We're not blessed with players with vision.
Problem is, even if England win the World Cup without, for example, playing Rooney, there'd be some idiot slating Hodgson for it. As for not having players with vision, I think that's a tad harsh, like Ferdinand said, if Pirlo had played that pass that Sterling played for England's goal, most people would be rushing off to fellate the Italian maestro in acknowledgment of his genius. The pro-Italian/Pirlo bias from the BBC was sickening.

I remember many Wimbledon's ago when Steffi Graf played a cross court shot and Dan Maskell nearly ejeculated on air. A few days later, some unseeded girl played a virtually identical shot but nary an eyebrow was raised.

We seemed reluctant to praise our players too highly as if they fail to reach our ridiculously high expectations they get hammered into the ground. Last night they were talking about Ronaldo singlehandedly trying to salvage the game for Portugal....b*ll*cks...he couldn't do it if he cloned himself (probably cos they'd be fighting over who got to look at themselves on the big screen tv) but let's praise him at every turn as it's blasphemous to do otherwise.

I thought it was Pirlo's testimonial with the way the England players reluctantly tried to tackle, or at least pressure the man. I see what your're saying, with the Graf story. all media seem to do it.

by Breadvan Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:22 am

In the long term...

by GSC Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:23 am

I thought England played Pirlo well. It was too hot to go chasing him round for 90 minutes, so let him pass it in his own half where realistically hes of little danger.

by Stella Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:25 am

GSC wrote:I thought England played Pirlo well. It was too hot to go chasing him round for 90 minutes, so let him pass it in his own half where realistically hes of little danger.

He moved out into the centre of the pitch to easily on a few occasions.

by Guest Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:26 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:As many passes as Pirlo had, there is no way you can compare his running of the game in 2012 to the 2014 game.

But again, whilst he was good in 2012, England failed miserably to close him down...which is exactly what happened in the semis and Pirlo was nowhere near as effective. Give me five seconds on the ball and I could pick out a few passes, close me down quickly and the bloke in Row G is getting his beer spilled. Even last Saturday, the shambles that was the Baines/ Rooney combination was something a player with half the ability of Pirlo could have exploited to similar effect.

I'm not slating the guy per se but he seems to be the pundit's favourite player this week. It's as if there's been a discussion and no-one is allowed to like Messi or Ronaldo. I've also noticed a growing trend whereby people are now namedropping Di Stefano every five minutes. The same thing happened a while back on the boxing boards where people suddenly started listing Stanley Ketchel as one of their favourite fighters of all time.

Just seems to me that no-one can think for themselves these days but we'll allow the media to make our decisions for us.

by Breadvan Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:28 am

Thats my biggest gripe. Why we let Pirlo & the Italian midfield pass it around at will is beyond.

by Guest Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:30 am

We played Pirlo terribly again, for all the preparation we'd apparently done. If you think easing off him in his own half is a good ploy, then your delusional. He just fed balls through to Marchisio time after time, through Henderson & the traffic cone Gerrard.

Yeah, he wasn't the main threat in the game, like in 2012, but he was still mightily effective.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:31 am

Pirlo is a wonderful player, there isnt any doubt, and he did run the show against England in 2012. Its quite nice to see so much credit for him cos there are times when his position is just ignored for the big names. And hes running games in Italy still, a slower pace but still at his age impressive.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:32 am

John wrote:We played Pirlo terribly again, for all the preparation we'd apparently done. If you think easing off him in his own half is a good ploy, then your delusional. He just fed balls through to Marchisio time after time, through Henderson & the traffic cone Gerrard.

Yeah, he wasn't the main threat in the game, like in 2012, but he was still mightily effective.

It got worse when Welbeck went off, who pressurised brilliantly in the game, but hes not liked on here so its easily ignored.

by GSC Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:36 am

Ultimately though we had to pick our poison. Going lighter on the flanks to cramp Pirlo, Marchisio, Verrati and De Rossi for room through the middle was seen as a necessary evil. Playing an actual winger to pin Darmian higher up the field might've helped. That said though, for all their trying, Italy created very little through the middle of the field, Balotelli cut an isolated figure.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:16 am

Maybe just maybe, we don't have the players to stop a midfield of Pirlo, De Rossi, Verrati and Marchisio

Not sure if that's occurred to people or not, judging by comments on here some expected us to dominate that area, when simply it was never going to happen, but we negated the threat quite well down middle

As for Hodgson I'm with GSC/Dolph on this one, he's taking this team forward, but expect better results in the Euros

by GSC Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:33 am

Seems Suarez will play, given he wasn't fit to play 5 days earlier, its hard to imagine hes in any kind of shape.

Buzz seems to be Hodgsons going to accommodate Rooney in his central role. If he doesn't play well there, then the excuses run out really.

by Guest Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:48 am

Yeah, not bringing him on for 15-20 mins vs Costa Rica spoke volumes about his fitness. Can't see him lasting 90 minutes, if he starts.

Makes sense playing Sterling outwide against a second choice full back. Rooney must deliver, otherwise we turn to Ox on the right, Welbeck on the left & Sterling in the 10 role for the rest of the tournament.

by GSC Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:55 am

I'd rather have Sterling running at Lugano personally.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:56 am

GSC wrote:I'd rather have Sterling running at Lugano personally.

Sturridge can destroy him Cool

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:57 am

More traffic in the middle. I think there will be space for Sturridge and Rooney constantly if Sterling and Welbeck stretch their legs. Two best finishers in the middle.

by Guest Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:15 am

At this moment it's debatable as to whether or not Rooney qualifies as one of out best finishers

by NickisBHAFC Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:58 am

I thought Rooney played well on Saturday, admittedly i had to watch the highlights though! But he isn't a winger. Woy needs to get that into his head.

I personally would go against Urgugay

Usual back 5. Maybe Shaw instead of Baines.

Gerrard and Whilshere with Rooney infront. Sterling and the OX on the wings with Sturridge upfront.

Harsh to drop Hendo i know, but i feel Jack W will run at Urugay more and thats that we need to do. ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!

Anyone know if Ox is 100% fit?

by Duty281 Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:05 am

No, Oxlade is still training separately and is unlikely to make the Uruguay game.

Judging from how England have been training, it will be the same team as Saturday, but with Welbeck left, Sterling right and Rooney ten. Lallana has also been training in a position on the left, Milner likewise on the right; they're probably the main back-up for the flanks.

Of course the main talk is about Wazza. Thursday will be his tenth game at a World Cup finals - the perfect ten, for England's number ten? One can only hope.

by CFCNick Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:06 am

Yep. Game plan has to be run at their back four. Plus set pieces. They were shocking at defending set pieces on Saturday. Get Cahill, Jagielka, maybe even Lambert in the box as much as possible.

by GSC Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:44 am

Diego Lugano ruled out through injury.

Looks like its all over.

by skyeman Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:35 pm

And the day before the match, we have Rooneys biographer saying "it would have been better for England if he had moved abroad five years ago"

Why, why, why.

by **Crimey** Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:50 pm

Think tomorrow is likely to be Rooney's last chance to show that he should be starting, a poor performance and think Hodgson will have to consider dropping him. Sterling has shown that he is capable of playing that number 10 role and England are blessed with options in the wide roles, especially if Ox is back for the Costa Rica game.

by sportform Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:57 pm

I would swap Barkley for Welbeck and go 4-3-3.

My team would be:-
Hart
Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines
Henderson, Gerrard, Barkley
Sterling, Rooney, Sturridge

I am not convinced with Sturridge as the main striker. He seems to want to drop deep too much when he should be looking to run in behind.

I would start with Rooney in the middle, the idea being as he drops deep, either Sturridge or Sterling would run beyond him into the box.

by sportform Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:02 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Harsh to drop Hendo i know, but i feel Jack W will run at Urugay more and thats that we need to do. ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!

I don't get this Wilshere thing. He wasn't good the other night. Wasn't good vs Ecuador and hasn't been good for over a season. He is still living off hype.

by sportform Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:03 pm

Crimey wrote:Think tomorrow is likely to be Rooney's last chance to show that he should be starting, a poor performance and think Hodgson will have to consider dropping him. Sterling has shown that he is capable of playing that number 10 role and England are blessed with options in the wide roles, especially if Ox is back for the Costa Rica game.

Rooney has had the most assists by any England player in this tournament. Sterling had seven crosses against Italy and I can only remember one going into a dangerous area. None found an England player. Sterling has plenty of the ball and ran at the Italian defenders but most of the time he just ran straight into them.

by Duty281 Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:51 am

Sterling played the best pass of the entire game.

by Stella Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:08 am

Duty281 wrote:Sterling played the best pass of the entire game.

Rooney's was better (weaker foot as well). IMO that was the harder pass to make.

by Stella Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:13 am

Same XI tonight, with Rooney coming inside?

by Guest Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:45 am

Its the same team, just Sterling on the wing & Rooney in the 10. End of.

by Stella Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 am

John wrote:Its the same team, just Sterling on the wing & Rooney in the 10. End of.

Aah right. I hadn't seen that it had been announced?

by GSC Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:51 am

It hasn't but all the buzz seems to be we'll accommodate Rooney at any cost.

by Guest Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:51 am

It hasn't been announced officially but that's the team. They've been using that side in the training sessions with bibs, Ox isn't ready to start.

by Stella Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:55 am

Will the Ox be on the bench?

Funny that Roy said Rooney out left worked well, but is changing it.

by Guest Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:59 am

Roy looked at the stats, saw Rooney ran the furthest & came to the conclusion he played well out on the left picard

Apart from the assist, he was atrocious. If that was a knockout game, which tonight's basically is, Rooney would of been the reason we were knocked-out. They have a second choice right back tonight, therefore, lets gets a genuine winger with pace to destroy him, give Rooney his preferred role & if he can't produce, then that's it for him.

by Duty281 Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:01 am

10,000 England fans in Sao Paulo tonight; ever so slightly outnumbered by the 25,000 Uruguayans in attendance.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:30 am

Duty281 wrote:10,000 England fans in Sao Paulo tonight; ever so slightly outnumbered by the 25,000 Uruguayans in attendance.

but the English sing the loudest Very Happy

by **owen10ozzy** Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:50 am

Yep seems beyond doubt that the starting XI is the same; my concern with that is that even if Suarez isn't fit he could still do some damage if Henderson/Gerrard give him the room they gave to the Italian midfielders last Saturday.

Would have liked to have seen one of them replaced with Wilshere or even Milner who press the ball much much better.

As for the Rooney debate; whilst I can see why Roy is giving him another chance in his more favoured role (though not his actual favourite which is striker) I think there is a very big danger that we see Rooney spurn yet another effort and have another game where he runs a lot but produces very few sparkling moments. I see him being much quieter than Sterling was...and if we lose tonight then it's all a bit of too little to late when it comes to him being dropped against Costa Rica.

Everyone is going on about his World Cup record; but lest we forget he only actually has 1 goal in a tournament since Euro 2004...that's 1 goal in 11 games; for a supposed World Class player that is absolutely dire! For me he has brought little to the England fold outside of the games against minnows since 2004. That's 10 years of rather abject performances regardless of what role he has played.

Anyhow....count down is on...whilst I really hope we pull it off tonight I think were going to lose 2-1 again!

by Stella Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:53 am

Re Rooney

Have we got anyone better, owen?

by Guest Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:03 am

Getting nervous now.

Uruguay will turn this game into a stop/start war & they will be play-acting everywhere to try & win this. Anyone know the ref for tonight? I don't think we will get any rhythm tonight either. Having said that, Suarez isn't fully fit & will only last 60 minutes, so I still think we will just snatch this 2-1, but it's going to a messy, tight game.

If we do win tonight, but Rooney does nothing, then vs Costa Rica we go like this:

--ox---sterling---welbeck
-------sturridge---------

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