The Official *England's Journey to the Promised Land* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

"And here comes Hurst, he's got...some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now! It's four!"
England, despite drastically underachieving, are one of only eight nations to win the World Cup.

So here we are then, the eve of yet another FIFA World Cup, the grandest sporting tournament of them all. For the under-hyped England team, it's another chance to add to their one solitary World Cup and bring football home.

"Oh and he left Cooper standing...Pele! What a save! Gordon Banks!"
The greatest goalkeeper of all time makes the greatest save of all time.

The conception is that England will be lucky to make it past the group stage. The reality is that 2014 is the best chance of winning the World Cup since 1970, for the Three Lions. It is a squad largely unburdened by previous failure. It is a squad free of expectation. It is a squad that has the perfect balance between youth and experience. It is a squad fantastically prepared, tactically fluid in its play-making and with a wonderful manager at the helm.

"And Moore stops him! What a player this fellow is."
Now that was simply the greatest challenge of all time, made by the greatest centre-half of all time.

England are ready to win the World Cup.

"There's a header in there, and a great chance for the goal and it's there! Bryan Robson!"
Captain Marvel scores the quickest meaningful World Cup goal of all time.

In defence, Joe Hart has bounced back from his early season failings better than ever, and is all set to prove himself as one of the world's best goalkeepers this summer. Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are a good partnership at the heart of the defence. Leighton Baines is solid, and Glen Johnson is...um..not the worst full-back in the world. The English shield wall won't concede many goals this summer, they never do; qualifying and history shows us that. And the depth remains solid.

Now is the time, that everyone sees/You never give up, that's how it should be/Don't get caught, make your own break/Express yourself, don't give it away.
That might bring back memories of when England last made a World Cup Semi-Final.

In the centre of midfield, Steven Gerrard has come off one of his best seasons for many years, fully enjoying his new holding role. Accompanying him will be his club team-mate, Jordan Henderson, who has rapidly settled into the England set-up despite not playing a single minute of qualifying. Frank Lampard adds the experience, and Jack Wilshere gives the style and energy of youth, both from the bench.

Three Lions on the shirt/Jules Rimet still gleaming/No more years of hurt/No more need for dreaming.
And this classic still resonates loud and true.

On the wings, England's main strength this year, Hodgson's team have a vast array of options. Danny Welbeck is as capable as ever out wide. Raheem Sterling is a superb talent with an eye for goal, plus enough pace and skill to trouble any defence in the world. Adam Lallana is as deft as they come: so very crafty, so skilled, so clever. And Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might just have the greatest potential of the lot, combining all the aforementioned assets. Not forgetting James Milner, who gives England crucial depth and brilliant crossing ability.

"Here's Gascoigne..oh brilliant! Oh yes! Oh yes!"
Just technically brilliant.

Up front, Daniel Sturridge and Wayne Rooney together means England have, at the very least, a good strike pairing. Such a strike pairing haven't been seen for the England team since the days of Owen and Rooney at Euro 2004...or perhaps Shearer and Sheringham in Euro '96. Both Sturridge and Rooney have had great seasons for their clubs; the former is still in form, the latter is working hard to find his. And Rickie Lambert, who has also had a great season for his club, completes the striking package by offering a more-than-decent goalscoring threat from the bench. And he's not too shabby from twelve yards, either.

"Oh Owen's through again for England, what a chance for the hat-trick here. Owen! Oh this is getting better and better and better!"
England stuff the Germans in Munich..O happy day.

Then there's Roy Hodgson. A fabulous manager who has given England direction, tactical improvement and has improved their reputation off-the-field massively in the short space of two years. He's integrated many new players into the team, prepared them superbly and, after not being a million miles away from shocking the footballing world at Euro 2012, strolled through qualifying. A man with World Cup experience, he's certainly the best manager England have had since, at least, Sir Bobby Robson.

"Captain's example, David Beckham. England lead Argentina - those three little words that mean so much!"
And that was the last time England had a major win at a tournament.

After the humilation in South Africa, it's difficult to believe that England would be standing on the precipice of world glory just four years later. And here we are. England are seven games from winning their second World Cup. Football's greatest prize has, for too long, been absent from England's green and pleasant land.

"And Gerrard has found a way into the box, and he has found the net! And England are heading to the World Cup Finals!"
England seal qualification with a 2-0 win.

Bring her home, Roy, bring football home. Back to where she belongs.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Hart for me as next captain, he's vocal, clearly passionate, speak well to the media, and is clearly installed at his position for a while

Cahill is also a good shout

[CFCNick]

I don't really like Joe Hart as captain but can't really see anyone else that would come as close as him. Cahill is definitely the next Chelsea captain.

[Stella]

Hart for me as next captain, he's vocal, clearly passionate, speak well to the media, and is clearly installed at his position for a while

Cahill is also a good shout

Is Hart's place safe?

[GSC]

Harts really the only locked in long termer

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Hart for me as next captain, he's vocal, clearly passionate, speak well to the media, and is clearly installed at his position for a while

Cahill is also a good shout

Is Hart's place safe?

100% yes

[GSC]

Who's his competition?

People are too harsh on Hart anyway. Couple of anxious moments, but hasn't been at fault for any goal.

[Stella]

Bad positioning on the second Italian goal. Keeper's don't generally stand at their near post when a cross is coming in from the wing. Closer to the near post than back of course, but he was rooted to it.

Look, I'm fine with his as keeper for now. I don't want to start knocking him for a couple of nervy moments.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Harts competition

Ben foster - old, quits on his country, isn't very good barring a few camera saves
Fraser Forster - decent, but plays like two meaningful games a year, not commanding enough 
John ruddy - decent, but is a 3rd choice international at best really
Jack but land - isn't very good, has youth on his side
Karl darlow - GSC likes him

[GSC]

Doesn't really matter where Hart was standing to be honest.

Darlow would be in the squad if he had been playing in the PL.

[GSC]

Hes also better than Benchland

[Stella]

Doesn't really matter where Hart was standing to be honest.

Darlow would be in the squad if he had been playing in the PL.

Of course it does. He didn't get back across the goal, hence had no chance with the goal.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He'd have been out of position if it was a corner, but from open play as a GK you always stand nearer your near post from crosses so you don't get caught out

[Guest]

Anyone see Alan Curbishley's XI for Euro 2016, basically the same team as we have now, just Walcott/Smalling/Shaw in. That doesn't fill me with confidence. He also had Barkley alongside Wilshere in central midfield, again, worry for Barkley in that position giving the ball away with nobody behind him.

[GSC]

He wouldn't have any chance regardless. Simple finish for Balotelli.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anyone see Alan Curbishley's XI for Euro 2016, basically the same team as we have now, just Walcott/Smalling/Shaw in. That doesn't fill me with confidence. He also had Barkley alongside Wilshere in central midfield, again, worry for Barkley in that position giving the ball away with nobody behind him.

Well its a good job Alan curbishley has as much influence over the England selection as me or you then!

[Guest]

Yeah, I saw it & thought.....what? Basically the same side that's failed now.

He had this-
-----------------HART---------------
JOHNSON---CAHILL---SMALLING---SHAW
---------BARKLEY---WILSHERE---------
WALCOTT------ROONEY-------LALLANA
-------------STURRIDGE---------------

I've got problems with alot of that. Smalling is pretty average, Johnson is only going downhill. Barkley loses possession too much to be in central midfield with no protection behind him. Lallana ahead of Ox or Sterling.....I don't think so, Alan. Rooney is Rooney & then is Sturridge really the out & out striker we crave?

[GSC]

I'd rather see Barkley in a 3 man midfield, slightly more advanced than Wilshere and Henderson

[GSC]

I actually don't mind Walcott though. Pace scares defenders to death and willing runner in behind.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I really wouldn't be adversed to giving Walcott a good run playing centre forward myself.

[Guest]

Playing Walcott there would scare opposition, it would also free up the right wing slot for Ox

---------------HART----------------
----?----CAHILL-----?----SHAW---
------------HENDERSON-----------
------WILSHERE-----BARKLEY-----
OXLADE------------------STERLING
------------WALCOTT-------------

That would be a pure pace overload, not sure how effective it would be though. We'd just be setup for counter attack, couldn't see much ball retention. The tactic would be......run.

[Ent]

Centre midfield is going to give serious issues in my opinion for 2016.

[GSC]

Ox could also play CM.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I would love Barkley and Ox in there but I doubt either will have the discipline, nor will they both get game time in the league in the same role as they would play for England.

Stones should be playing in the Euros qualification, if not Jones. The teams in our group are awful, lets give them the game time. No other option but Walker at right back, and he is only 24.

Jack Wilshere needs to learn his game. Hes a midfielder with a role at the moment. Doesnt want to play deep, isnt good enough to be a 10.

[compelling and rich]

the fact is as talented as the likes of barkley, sterling etc look now they wont progress as far as there foreign counter parts, we never do. they sign a new contract with there club and think they have made it. i mean was xavi/zidane anywhere near as talented as rooney at the age of 16? i highly doubt it yet those went on to become one of the world greatest while the other has not improved for over ten years. plenty of english talent that comes through and looks good but dont progress as far as they should. someone like richards another prime example of a player who's now more interested in being famous and the lifestyle than being a top class footballer. as a nation we dont have a great attitude to become the best, certainly not when it comes to football anyway

harts become a parady of himself, all the dodgy adverts, over singing of the anthem, shouting at ball boys. its all seems a bit staged to me as if he's playing up to it

[GSC]

Oh god, the passion and attitude cliches are out.

Barkley can play at the tip of a midfield 3, he plays higher for Everton because he gives it away too much, with experience in 2 years he should improve.

[Nakatomi Plaza]

I wouldn't be adverse to England going with three centre backs. None of our full backs are particularly good defensively, so playing as wing backs would play to their strengths. It also means you could have two creative central midfielders who would benefit from having the protection of three centre halves behind them.

[compelling and rich]

were miles away from being anywhere near contenders, change of formation wont change that we simply dont have good enough players

how many england players are the best at there club? not many other than perhaps everton and southampton players, hardly inspiring to go win a world cup with best players from higher mid table clubs

[Nakatomi Plaza]

By the same token how many Dutch players are the best at their clubs? Only RVP and he played for the 7th best team in England last year. I think we've got to get away from this idea of putting the 'best' individual players and shoehorning them into a system that doesn't benefit the team as a whole.

[compelling and rich]

sneijder at galatasaray, robben is right up there with the best at bayern always prefered him over ribery, indi, de vrji and claise all of feyenoord best as with blind at ajax. de guzman and fer also up there with there smaller clubs

i do get your point though, the biggest difference is even these so called weak players in the dutch squad will be miles better technically better than most of englands lump it and rush footballers. although i do think holland will fall short in this world cup, its not the best dutch squad but its still miles better than englands

[compelling and rich]

would also like to add good technical players should be able to adapt to roles easy enough. not sure why england have this fascination with formations. rooney should easily be able to drift to the left right central etc like the likes of the great spain team did as well as most dutch germany teams etc. formations are only important in a defensive structure, attacking they should have enough intelligence to find space and use it

although i would argue that danny wellbeck has never been a left winger, thats just common sense. we just put him there "to put a shift in" great tactic that!!

[sportform]

I would have Henderson as captain. He was very vocal in the Italy game and didn't hold back telling Glen Johnson and Rooney what to do. I would play him in the centre with Wilshere and Barkley either side in a three man midfield. They looked go in the second half against Honduras were we actually moved up the park and played through the midfield. One of the problems England have had under Roy Hodgson is Gerrard drops far too deep to get the ball of the centre back and leaves a big gap between the front men. It happened in Euro 2012 and hasn't been spotted or corrected in two years.

I do like Walcott upfront. He has good movement, gets into good positions and has a threat in behind the centre back. He will test/ occupy the centre backs and move them about. That creates space for the rest.

We could play a 442 diamond or 4321.

[Champagne_Socialist]

were miles away from being anywhere near contenders, change of formation wont change that we simply dont have good enough players

how many england players are the best at there club? not many other than perhaps everton and southampton players, hardly inspiring to go win a world cup with best players from higher mid table clubs

You don't need to have the best players at your club to win or to perform well at the world cup eg Costa Rica, Australia, Chilie, Colombia, and even Iran.

You just need to have a team that plays well together. Costa Rica have on paper the worst team in the group but they have destroyed Italy and Uruguay scoring 4 goals in the process, becaus ethey play well as a team.

[sportform]

No doubt Greg Dyke and the FA will take the next few weeks to decision what direct to take with England and then copy whatever teams wins the World Cup. That's what they have done over the past 20 years. Copy France, copy Brazil, copy Spain. How about they actual take a proper look at English football and put a system in that works?

B teams, quotas etc are just papering over the cracks.

[Duty281]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27951796

No regrets about strategy, says Roy Hodgson.

Not one or two tiny quibbles, Roy? Playing Wazza out of position, not working hard enough on off-the-ball preparation, perhaps? Set-pieces.

I suppose that England played around 80 minutes of good football this tournament, which, sad to say, is better than any other tournament since 2004.

[sportform]

You don't need to have the best players at your club to win or to perform well at the world cup eg Costa Rica, Australia, Chilie, Colombia, and even Iran.

This just shows that we are tactically not good enough as well as technically not good enough.

[Duty281]

No doubt Greg Dyke and the FA will take the next few weeks to decision what direct to take with England and then copy whatever teams wins the World Cup. That's what they have done over the past 20 years. Copy France, copy Brazil, copy Spain. How about they actual take a proper look at English football and put a system in that works?

B teams, quotas etc are just papering over the cracks.

I often wonder what qualifications Dyke has to run the FA. He won't do anything until 2022, if he's still in the job, as that is the current target: lifting the World Cup in Qatar, England's desert dream etc.

[Lowlandbrit]

sneijder at galatasaray, robben is right up there with the best at bayern always prefered him over ribery, indi, de vrji and claise all of feyenoord best as with blind at ajax. de guzman and fer also up there with there smaller clubs

Sneijder barely even got in the squad, spent ages looking out of shape in Turkey before suddenly finding some form and fitness at the end of the season (imagine the press around that if he was English). Graziano Pelle is the star at Feyenoord, although the young players played important roles. I'd rather have the important players from a top half team in one of the best leagues in the world than the important players from what is basically a developmental league. There may not be many England players that would start for the top teams, but there aren't many that wouldn't get into almost every other squad.

[compelling and rich]

sneijder at galatasaray, robben is right up there with the best at bayern always prefered him over ribery, indi, de vrji and claise all of feyenoord best as with blind at ajax. de guzman and fer also up there with there smaller clubs

Sneijder barely even got in the squad, spent ages looking out of shape in Turkey before suddenly finding some form and fitness at the end of the season (imagine the press around that if he was English). Graziano Pelle is the star at Feyenoord, although the young players played important roles. I'd rather have the important players from a top half team in one of the best leagues in the world than the important players from what is basically a developmental league. There may not be many England players that would start for the top teams, but there aren't many that wouldn't get into almost every other squad.

sneijder was there second highest goal scorer behind yilmaz and played nearly 40 games? he scored 17 goals   

[Lowlandbrit]

sneijder was there second highest goal scorer behind yilmaz and played nearly 40 games? he scored 17 goals   

I meant he barely got in the Dutch squad, not the Galatasaray squad. And he's a first rate player in a second rate league, didn't need to be at 100% to do well.

[Champagne_Socialist]

You don't need to have the best players at your club to win or to perform well at the world cup eg Costa Rica, Australia, Chilie, Colombia, and even Iran.

This just shows that we are tactically not good enough as well as technically not good enough.

In my opinion the reason we have lost 2 games is because of poor tactics by roy hodgson. Dropping Ashley Cole, Playing Rooney on the left and keeping him there all game, moving sterling from the centre to accommodate rooney, not laying for the draw against Uruguay which at the time would have made us favourites to progress from the group and keeping gerrard on for the whole 90 mins in both games when he was playing very poor and doesn't have the legs.

The only person who can save this England team is Jose Mourinho. Tactically he knows how to win games with players who are not as good as their opponents.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Oh god, Jose.

[J.Benson II]

Not a fan of Hodgson as manager. Was out of his depth at Liverpool so it's no surprise to see him struggle with England. The qualifiers summed him up. I remember the final game against Poland and he could be seen with his hands clapped together literally praying England would pull through. Embarrassing stuff. Not to mention he later called WC qualification "the proudest moment in my career". 
Yeah Roy, guiding England through a relatively easy group was truly a monumental accomplishment.  

I don't actually blame him for the squad selection. England may have done better with Terry and Cole but when they eventually end up getting knocked out, critics would have said "those guys are past it / lack of pace exposed /should have played younger stars instead etc..."
Only change I would have made would have been bringing Carrick. I know he had a bad season but so would anyone under Moyes. Carrick is still one of England's more composed midfielders.
I would have also played Lallana ahead of Welbeck. Don't see the point in playing attacking players because of their "defensive" qualities or workrate. Even Adam Johnson (who was omitted) would have been a better choice.

England's biggest issue though is simply at grassroots level. Players are often rated purely on pace and athleticism than actual ability. Look at someone like Ashley Young. He was once seen as one of England's brightest young players simply because he was fast and could hit a decent strike - totally ignoring the fact he could barely control the simplest pass and had absolutely no intelligence to his game. Ever noticed how England never seem to produce players like David Silva yet instead, produce plenty of pacy or physical players who when matched with a competent defender, will just try to power through them?
England like to play one way, at 100mph. This isn't the style that wins you tournaments. As Beckenbeaur said four years back, "kick and rush football".

[Josiah Maiestas]

You don't need to have the best players at your club to win or to perform well at the world cup eg Costa Rica, Australia, Chilie, Colombia, and even Iran.

This just shows that we are tactically not good enough as well as technically not good enough.

In my opinion the reason we have lost 2 games is because of poor tactics by roy hodgson. Dropping Ashley Cole, Playing Rooney on the left and keeping him there all game, moving sterling from the centre to accommodate rooney, not laying for the draw against Uruguay which at the time would have made us favourites to progress from the group and keeping gerrard on for the whole 90 mins in both games when he was playing very poor and doesn't have the legs.

The only person who can save this England team is Jose Mourinho. Tactically he knows how to win games with players who are not as good as their opponents.

Midfielders is what we lack, Gerrard doesn't know how to keep the ball he hoofs it so much, he's usually GOOD at tackling and winning the ball but couldn't do that either. Gareth Barry could've done alot better than that hoof merchant.

[roverstdt]

I would say it is even less about who starts. It doesn't matter if we had Pirlo, Rooney, Messi, Ronaldo, Buffon all in the England team, we never work as a team but more as individuals and strangers. Hodgson on the face of it has done a decent job and I personally don't think he deserves to get sacked. However I do think the FA did a huge mistake in not appointing Redknapp.

Before I say why, I would like to add I am not a fan of Harry Redknapp, but I give them man credit, while tactically he may not be 100% the best, every single club he has been at, he has been able to build a team and motivate the individuals. Right now what we need is not a world class individuals but a fricking team!!!

After the world cup, start using the young talent. I would love to see. We might even have the defensive issues solved by the Euro's. I am a Blackburn Rovers fan I absolutely despise Burnley, however they have an amazing Right Back in Kierran Trippier. So hopefully if he makes the step up I expect from him could be able to solve the problem at RB. I personally would love to see

----------------Hart--------------

Trippier/Walker---Cahill--Jones/Stones--Shaw

-------Wilshere/Henderson---Barkley--------

Walcott------------Rooney------------------Sterling

---------------------Sturridge---------------------

[Champagne_Socialist]

Hodgson on the face of it has done a decent job and I personally don't think he deserves to get sacked. However I do think the FA did a huge mistake in not appointing Redknapp.

What has hodgson done that is a decent job? struggled in qualification and have lost all our games at the WC.....

[Dolphin Ziggler]

So its all results based again now is it?

[Duty281]

I wonder what Roy's thinking for the Costa Rica game - last hurrah for Gerrard, Baines, Lampard, Lambert etc. Or give youth a chance?

Hey ho, we actually did better than four years ago performances wise, so onwards!

Amused at some of the comments on other websites for England's failings, though.

Not singing the anthem with pride? Who would?
Rooney was poor? Actually, he wasn't.
The players don't care? They may be overpaid, but they also know they've failed, and the hurt is clear to see.

[Champagne_Socialist]

So its all results based again now is it?

Never said it was and I made a thread where I discussed his tactical failings and selection failings.

But results in qualifying and at the WC have been very bad.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So its all results based again now is it?

Never said it was and I made a thread where I discussed his tactical failings and selection failings.

But results in qualifying and at the WC have been very bad.

Qualifying is just about qualifying for me, just get yourselves to the dance (if there's any greater example of that its the French this WC who were very poor in qualifying)

Results at the WC haven't been good obvs, but performances have improved and widely acknowledged as the best since 2004 and really on another day we could've won both those games (all hypothetical I know but if Godin is sent off, if Rooney slots home the Italy chance etc)

[Champagne_Socialist]

So its all results based again now is it?

Never said it was and I made a thread where I discussed his tactical failings and selection failings.

But results in qualifying and at the WC have been very bad.

Qualifying is just about qualifying for me, just get yourselves to the dance (if there's any greater example of that its the French this WC who were very poor in qualifying)

Results at the WC haven't been good obvs, but performances have improved and widely acknowledged as the best since 2004 and really on another day we could've won both those games (all hypothetical I know but if Godin is sent off, if Rooney slots home the Italy chance etc)

Poor results in qualifying can push your fifa rankings down and you end up being a 2nd/3rd seed team and get drawn in a group of death which is exactly what happend to England.

If England had performed better in qulifying we would have had a higher fifa ranking, been a 1st seed and be drawn in a group containing easier teams( no guarantee we would win but it would be a lot easier than having to play uruguay and Italy in the group stages).

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