Argentina to select only home-based players from 2016

The policy change will coincide with an Argentina francise joining Super Rugby, so that will effectively become the national side and one with an incredible number of hours training and playing together.

How much money will they have at their disposal and how many won't be drawn home?


http://www.espn.co.uk/argentina/rugby/story/248589.html

They will only have one professional team so how will they manage this? Will their super15 team effectively be their international team? If so this could work out quite well for them or leave them a little thin in numbers.

Either way it will be interesting.

Bravo

Let's hope SARU takes note of this

Biltong wrote:Bravo

Let's hope SARU takes note of this

but do you think Argentina will be able to pull this off and dont you think they will need at least 2 profesional teams?

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:Bravo

Let's hope SARU takes note of this

but do you think Argentina will be able to pull this off and dont you think they will need at least 2 profesional teams?

It might set them back for a short term, but it is good that they are drawing a line in the sand, I wish SARU had the guts to do it

It's a brave stand and I salute it.  It won't be pure though.  Complications will always mean that candidates will always play abroad, there'll come periods when those candidates might be needed and if that time comes, they'll be picked to strengthen the team.  

But if they can stick as closely as possible to the principle, then I think it will give Argentina a better opportunity to sustain a higher ranking position than the topsy turvy existence they've had up until now.

I assume this means they will allow professional club rugby? Until now if you wanted to play in Argentina you had to be amateur.

Players have all the right to play professional rugby and earn the big where ever they want.

But to represent your country is an honour and a privilege and those prepared to play in local competitions and strengthen their domestic rugby should be the ones who represent their nation.

Biltong wrote:Players have all the right to play professional rugby and earn the big where ever they want.

But to represent your country is an honour and a privilege and those prepared to play in local competitions and strengthen their domestic rugby should be the ones who represent their nation.

Here here.

Biltong wrote:Players have all the right to play professional rugby and earn the big where ever they want.

But to represent your country is an honour and a privilege and those prepared to play in local competitions and strengthen their domestic rugby should be the ones who represent their nation.

Could Argentina really be competitive at international level with amateur players?

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:Players have all the right to play professional rugby and earn the big where ever they want.

But to represent your country is an honour and a privilege and those prepared to play in local competitions and strengthen their domestic rugby should be the ones who represent their nation.

Could Argentina really be competitive at international level with amateur players?

They have a Super Rugby team from 2016. If they fill it with their best 30 players, yes they can

They wont just have amature players they will have one franchise in the super15 from 2016.

30 pro players - with the rest having to fit in two evenings of training a week around their jobs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is sufficient.

They need a domestic league pronto now. how big is rugby in Argentina? I know the national team sells out, but could they ostensibly have half a dozen or so franchises playing each other in front of something approaching a crowd?

You can't pick only home based players without something resembling a local league.

The big question for me will be how much money they'll have to play with to bring their stars home.  With only one franchise in the country they should be able to get very good crowds, TV audiences and sponsorship.  Combine that with additional UAR funding and I think they could have a pretty decent pot.  You may also find that some players look to supplement their wages with partial seasons or injury cover in Europe/Japan during the off-season.

A team that will play that much club and international rugby together could become almost telepathically good.  The issue will be that when Super Rugby coincides with the Championship (how many matches is this?) the club side will be a mix of 2nd string and academy, but that will have its own long-term development advantages.

kingraf wrote:They need a domestic league pronto now. how big is rugby in Argentina? I know the national team sells out, but could they ostensibly have half a dozen or so franchises playing each other in front of something approaching a crowd?

You can't pick only home based players without something resembling a local league.

they keep changing the structure of the domestic competitions. However there is a strong support for Rugby - and decent crowds for provincial games. Most intense place I ever toured.

The problem is that the big chiefs have up to now refused to countenance any payment for playing rugby in Argentina, yet have gotten rich themselves. there is definitely the oppoirtunity to run a semi pro league below the top team - if the administrators have thw will. However I fear they will instead carry on with their no pro rugby in Argentina policy - including only paying the Super Rugby franchise for away matches.

This could be a real opportunity for Argentina - they have the playing numbers and the fans, but antediluvian administrators.

LondonTiger wrote:30 pro players - with the rest having to fit in two evenings of training a week around their jobs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is sufficient.

Imagine you could have your national squad together for 10 months of the year.

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:30 pro players - with the rest having to fit in two evenings of training a week around their jobs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is sufficient.

Imagine you could have your national squad together for 10 months of the year.

and how do the next generation develop?

In France.

PS - not saying it is a bad idea - so long as the organise the structure below the Super Rugby franchise.


After all I fully support England not selecting overseas based players, and agree South Africa should definitely operate the same thing.

The difference is though that england and South Africa have structures in place that at least allow for reasonably well remunerated players and for young men to choose the sport as a career. currently Argentina do not - and this would need to change.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:30 pro players - with the rest having to fit in two evenings of training a week around their jobs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is sufficient.

Imagine you could have your national squad together for 10 months of the year.

and how do the next generation develop?

It will grow, think man

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:30 pro players - with the rest having to fit in two evenings of training a week around their jobs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that is sufficient.

Imagine you could have your national squad together for 10 months of the year.

and how do the next generation develop?

It will grow, think man

Not if the administrators keep the ban on rugby in Argentina being pro. A single team (possibly only paid for away matches) is insufficient.

On one hand it could be like Scotland, with 2 professional sides and Glasgow providing the bulk of the national team. The trouble is you are committed to only giving your first choice squad game time at the S15 level. Very difficult nigh on impossible to bring through players and develop a squad with every player coming through having to be both S15 and International Test quality. Even Scotland have struggled for a long time with 2 professional sides to choose from. And Italy have struggled with 2 professional sides to choose out of.

I'd reckon the initial squad will look great and there may be an initial bounce for Test matches, but the medium term (say 2-4 seasons) will show serious cracks in an approach that is dependent on a single squad feeder set up.

kingraf wrote:They need a domestic league pronto now. how big is rugby in Argentina? I know the national team sells out, but could they ostensibly have half a dozen or so franchises playing each other in front of something approaching a crowd?

You can't pick only home based players without something resembling a local league.

The national team does anything but sell out. They get big crowds against the ABs every year but that's about it. Every other game they get around 20k-30k or so which is awful considering Georgia can pull in 25k plus against the likes of Tonga and Romania.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

kingraf wrote:They need a domestic league pronto now. how big is rugby in Argentina? I know the national team sells out, but could they ostensibly have half a dozen or so franchises playing each other in front of something approaching a crowd?

You can't pick only home based players without something resembling a local league.

The national team does anything but sell out. They get big crowds against the ABs every year but that's about it. Every other game they get around 20k-30k or so which is awful considering Georgia can pull in 25k plus against the likes of Tonga and Romania.

Isn't that largely because of where they've chosen to play their matches, taking games around the country to smaller and more regional stadiums?  They haven't played a game in BA since June 2013, the list of venues thereafter has been:

v Georgia San Juan 22 Jun 2013
v South Africa Mendoza 24 Aug 2013
v New Zealand La Plata 28 Sep 2013
v Australia Rosario 5 Oct 2013
v Ireland Resistencia 7 Jun 2014
v Ireland Tucuman 14 Jun 2014
v Scotland Cordoba 20 Jun 2014
v South Africa Salta 23 Aug 2014
v New Zealand La Plata 27 Sep 2014
v Australia Mendoza 4 Oct 2014

Japan don't have the same problem as other teams in losing top players to overseas teams but they will be in a similar position to Argentina as far as Super Rugby goes.

It's widely expected that their franchise will be a shadow national team but that raises all the same questions. Is it the national team or not? What will be the difference? Does the national coach manage the Super franchise too? What's the development pathway from the clubs to the franchise?

etc etc.

There's a lot to work out.

Japan at least have a fictional league structure. Argentina don't. What do players with contracts do? Marcos Ayerza has just signed a three year deal at Tigers where he's been playing for years. How is he going to get back to Argentina? Has he got to buy himself out of his contract and then fund the return of himself and his family for Argentina? That's a large expense for any player to suffer.

Marcos won't be the only player in that position. He's the best loosehead in rugby right now and one of Argentina's top performers. Would be a massive loss for Argentina if he opts to stay in his home of the last seven years.

Argentina giving France a lesson right now :-)

Good win for the argies

4 droppies. When was the last time that happened?

Actually, only twice. Boks dropped 4 against England in 2006 and 5 against England in 2009. The tours turned around since their opening game against Scotland.

blackcanelion wrote:Actually, only twice. Boks dropped 4 against England in 2006 and 5 against England in 2009. The tours turned around since their opening game against Scotland.

Jannie de Beer, dropped 5 against England in the 1999 RWC

Biltong wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Actually, only twice. Boks dropped 4 against England in 2006 and 5 against England in 2009. The tours turned around since their opening game against Scotland.

Jannie de Beer, dropped 5 against England in the 1999 RWC

Sorry, I meant 1999 not 2009. Alzheimers.....

blackcanelion wrote:

Biltong wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Actually, only twice. Boks dropped 4 against England in 2006 and 5 against England in 2009. The tours turned around since their opening game against Scotland.

Jannie de Beer, dropped 5 against England in the 1999 RWC

Sorry, I meant 1999 not 2009. Alzheimers.....

No, not Alzheimers, de Beer

Didn't Alzheimers play for the Stormers, outside Parkinsons and inside Huntingtons...

blackcanelion wrote:Didn't Alzheimers play for the Stormers, outside Parkinsons and inside Huntingtons...

No, he played outside of Diahrrea

Biltong wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Didn't Alzheimers play for the Stormers, outside Parkinsons and inside Huntingtons...

No, he played outside of Diahrrea

Crap, I always struggle to put my finger on that one...

Biltong wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Actually, only twice. Boks dropped 4 against England in 2006 and 5 against England in 2009. The tours turned around since their opening game against Scotland.

Jannie de Beer, dropped 5 against England in the 1999 RWC

I was sat behind the posts as those kicks flew through, screaming at our defence and being teased mercilessly by Saffa fans. Got my revenge though - on Eurostar back to London started a rumour that anyy SA passport holders had invalidated their working visas by leaving the country and woulld be refused admittance. Panic spread liek wildfire.