Warren Gatland, winning coach with a winning mentality

In the words of the great man himself - "I like winning. I don't believe in the bull of playing well and losing, I'd rather play like crap and win a game any day of the week."


Even as a five-year-old, Warren Gatland just wanted to win. Every night before he played for Eastern Suburbs, he wore his rugby shirt to bed. Just before he drifted off into dreams of winning the following day, he'd fold up his kit and put it on the end of his bed.

In his school years, Gatland's lunch hour would be spent with a rugby ball in hand or playing ball rush, a version of British bulldog; the summer would be cricket's turn. The afternoon, more often than not, would be spent sat in the classroom caked in mud. He'd be barefooted; wearing shoes to school only occurred from the age of 12. Any matches, casual or more competitive, were only worthwhile in his eyes if the score was kept.


"If they were out in the playground playing as a class and if we were playing rugby or football and the teacher was playing so there was no score, I had no interest," Gatland told ESPN as the fire flickered and the snow fell outside the cafe at the Vale. "It didn't drive me, I turned off. It took me a long time to realise that about myself, that's what drove me. It is competition and being successful."

Years on and as we sit after Gatland named his eighth Six Nations squad as Wales coach, the desire to win remains intrinsic to his DNA. "I'm still driven now. If we lose a game I don't sleep very well that night or the next night. I take it to heart. I expect players to be like that.

Further to the discussion, Gatland was asked about how he handles the media -
"It's just part of the job," Gatland said. "I've got quite a good handle on it. I don't always think the media reflect public opinion and I think I'm a reasonable judge of that. There's no cowpat with me, I just tell it straight. I think the public get that and understand and respect it. They are almost like the silent majority while there are the minority who kick off. It was the same in Ireland.

"People tell me I'm under pressure, but who created it? It wasn't created by me. Was it someone in the media? It's my biggest challenge at the moment. I pride myself on being honest and straight up, if I'm asked for my opinion, I'll give them an opinion. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Those are the sort of ideals I've lived by.

"I have no problem with people being critical of me, or people disagreeing with me, as with selection it's a matter of opinion. I like to think at times I admit I made a mistake and you expect other people to do that."

The most controversial selection call of Gatland's coaching career was the Brian O'Driscoll case in the third Test of the 2013 British & Irish Lions tour. Gatland was widely pilloried pre-match for his decision to drop the veteran. The 41-16 thrashing his Lions handed out to the Wallabies was validation. When he took his seat in the post-match press conference he referred to reaction to the selection as "vitriolic". Even now, 18 months on, the memories provoke frustration.

"I was blown away by that. It is a pressure job and that's what I was paid to do, perhaps that was their take on it. I understand that but after a 40-point result they probably think they have put two-dozen eggs in one basket and it's tough to retract from that. There are others who still can't acknowledge that (Keith Wood). That's part of the learning process."


There is no autocracy with Gatland when it comes to planning and preparation. If a coach or player is not challenging a decision, he wonders why. Some need an arm around them and others need "a good boot up the backside". "You try and create a winning ethos through that. A big part of us in the Wales set-up is we have tried to get the players to be confident about having an input. We have a group of people where we get on well together, we have some fun and we aren't afraid to disagree or dispute. It's healthy. You create a situation where there is no issue with challenging. The end result is that when we make a decision it's one that we've all been involved in."

Gatland acknowledges that the 2019 World Cup will likely be the end point for a few of Wales' more notable internationals but for the here and now, the focus returns to the Vale and the Six Nations. Gatland will preside over a 34-man squad for the forthcoming championship. It is a competition that has proved to be a happy hunting ground for him. The Grand Slams of 2008 and 2012 dovetail with their success in 2013. But for him the memory of a certain try in 2009 was the perfect incarnation of his coaching philosophy.

It came at Murrayfield. Shane Williams found himself on the right wing, an uncertain position, but he managed to offload to Leigh Halfpenny who scored in the corner to make it 21-3 to Wales. "It was a special moment," Gatland smiles as he recalls it but more important on that day was their victory.

Such moments are a perfect manifestation of the work he puts in to ensure success both in the short and long-term. But that hard work will mean nothing unless Wales are on the right side of the scoreboard. It's the lifeblood of the man. "There's nothing in between when it comes to rugby, it's agony or ecstasy."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/253811.html#MSahtOOLG76Dl5xP.9

Warren went on to say - "England are a good team and they will pose one of our greatest challenges in this tournament. I've spoken to Andy recently and he isn't very confident of beating my Wales team, can't say I blame him to be honest, we are pretty good."

The Saint wrote:In the words of the great man himself - "I like winning. I don't believe in the bull of playing well and losing, I'd rather play like crap and win a game any day of the week."


Even as a five-year-old, Warren Gatland just wanted to win. Every night before he played for Eastern Suburbs, he wore his rugby shirt to bed. Just before he drifted off into dreams of winning the following day, he'd fold up his kit and put it on the end of his bed.

In his school years, Gatland's lunch hour would be spent with a rugby ball in hand or playing ball rush, a version of British bulldog; the summer would be cricket's turn. The afternoon, more often than not, would be spent sat in the classroom caked in mud. He'd be barefooted; wearing shoes to school only occurred from the age of 12. Any matches, casual or more competitive, were only worthwhile in his eyes if the score was kept.


"If they were out in the playground playing as a class and if we were playing rugby or football and the teacher was playing so there was no score, I had no interest," Gatland told ESPN as the fire flickered and the snow fell outside the cafe at the Vale. "It didn't drive me, I turned off. It took me a long time to realise that about myself, that's what drove me. It is competition and being successful."

Years on and as we sit after Gatland named his eighth Six Nations squad as Wales coach, the desire to win remains intrinsic to his DNA. "I'm still driven now. If we lose a game I don't sleep very well that night or the next night. I take it to heart. I expect players to be like that.

Further to the discussion, Gatland was asked about how he handles the media -
"It's just part of the job," Gatland said. "I've got quite a good handle on it. I don't always think the media reflect public opinion and I think I'm a reasonable judge of that. There's no cowpat with me, I just tell it straight. I think the public get that and understand and respect it. They are almost like the silent majority while there are the minority who kick off. It was the same in Ireland.

"People tell me I'm under pressure, but who created it? It wasn't created by me. Was it someone in the media? It's my biggest challenge at the moment. I pride myself on being honest and straight up, if I'm asked for my opinion, I'll give them an opinion. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Those are the sort of ideals I've lived by.

"I have no problem with people being critical of me, or people disagreeing with me, as with selection it's a matter of opinion. I like to think at times I admit I made a mistake and you expect other people to do that."

The most controversial selection call of Gatland's coaching career was the Brian O'Driscoll case in the third Test of the 2013 British & Irish Lions tour. Gatland was widely pilloried pre-match for his decision to drop the veteran. The 41-16 thrashing his Lions handed out to the Wallabies was validation. When he took his seat in the post-match press conference he referred to reaction to the selection as "vitriolic". Even now, 18 months on, the memories provoke frustration.

"I was blown away by that. It is a pressure job and that's what I was paid to do, perhaps that was their take on it. I understand that but after a 40-point result they probably think they have put two-dozen eggs in one basket and it's tough to retract from that. There are others who still can't acknowledge that (Keith Wood). That's part of the learning process."


There is no autocracy with Gatland when it comes to planning and preparation. If a coach or player is not challenging a decision, he wonders why. Some need an arm around them and others need "a good boot up the backside". "You try and create a winning ethos through that. A big part of us in the Wales set-up is we have tried to get the players to be confident about having an input. We have a group of people where we get on well together, we have some fun and we aren't afraid to disagree or dispute. It's healthy. You create a situation where there is no issue with challenging. The end result is that when we make a decision it's one that we've all been involved in."

Gatland acknowledges that the 2019 World Cup will likely be the end point for a few of Wales' more notable internationals but for the here and now, the focus returns to the Vale and the Six Nations. Gatland will preside over a 34-man squad for the forthcoming championship. It is a competition that has proved to be a happy hunting ground for him. The Grand Slams of 2008 and 2012 dovetail with their success in 2013. But for him the memory of a certain try in 2009 was the perfect incarnation of his coaching philosophy.

It came at Murrayfield. Shane Williams found himself on the right wing, an uncertain position, but he managed to offload to Leigh Halfpenny who scored in the corner to make it 21-3 to Wales. "It was a special moment," Gatland smiles as he recalls it but more important on that day was their victory.

Such moments are a perfect manifestation of the work he puts in to ensure success both in the short and long-term. But that hard work will mean nothing unless Wales are on the right side of the scoreboard. It's the lifeblood of the man. "There's nothing in between when it comes to rugby, it's agony or ecstasy."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/253811.html#MSahtOOLG76Dl5xP.9

What a tediously annoying and pointless thing to do.

bluestonevedder wrote:

The Saint wrote:In the words of the great man himself - "I like winning. I don't believe in the bull of playing well and losing, I'd rather play like crap and win a game any day of the week."


Even as a five-year-old, Warren Gatland just wanted to win. Every night before he played for Eastern Suburbs, he wore his rugby shirt to bed. Just before he drifted off into dreams of winning the following day, he'd fold up his kit and put it on the end of his bed.

In his school years, Gatland's lunch hour would be spent with a rugby ball in hand or playing ball rush, a version of British bulldog; the summer would be cricket's turn. The afternoon, more often than not, would be spent sat in the classroom caked in mud. He'd be barefooted; wearing shoes to school only occurred from the age of 12. Any matches, casual or more competitive, were only worthwhile in his eyes if the score was kept.


"If they were out in the playground playing as a class and if we were playing rugby or football and the teacher was playing so there was no score, I had no interest," Gatland told ESPN as the fire flickered and the snow fell outside the cafe at the Vale. "It didn't drive me, I turned off. It took me a long time to realise that about myself, that's what drove me. It is competition and being successful."

Years on and as we sit after Gatland named his eighth Six Nations squad as Wales coach, the desire to win remains intrinsic to his DNA. "I'm still driven now. If we lose a game I don't sleep very well that night or the next night. I take it to heart. I expect players to be like that.

Further to the discussion, Gatland was asked about how he handles the media -
"It's just part of the job," Gatland said. "I've got quite a good handle on it. I don't always think the media reflect public opinion and I think I'm a reasonable judge of that. There's no cowpat with me, I just tell it straight. I think the public get that and understand and respect it. They are almost like the silent majority while there are the minority who kick off. It was the same in Ireland.

"People tell me I'm under pressure, but who created it? It wasn't created by me. Was it someone in the media? It's my biggest challenge at the moment. I pride myself on being honest and straight up, if I'm asked for my opinion, I'll give them an opinion. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Those are the sort of ideals I've lived by.

"I have no problem with people being critical of me, or people disagreeing with me, as with selection it's a matter of opinion. I like to think at times I admit I made a mistake and you expect other people to do that."

The most controversial selection call of Gatland's coaching career was the Brian O'Driscoll case in the third Test of the 2013 British & Irish Lions tour. Gatland was widely pilloried pre-match for his decision to drop the veteran. The 41-16 thrashing his Lions handed out to the Wallabies was validation. When he took his seat in the post-match press conference he referred to reaction to the selection as "vitriolic". Even now, 18 months on, the memories provoke frustration.

"I was blown away by that. It is a pressure job and that's what I was paid to do, perhaps that was their take on it. I understand that but after a 40-point result they probably think they have put two-dozen eggs in one basket and it's tough to retract from that. There are others who still can't acknowledge that (Keith Wood). That's part of the learning process."


There is no autocracy with Gatland when it comes to planning and preparation. If a coach or player is not challenging a decision, he wonders why. Some need an arm around them and others need "a good boot up the backside". "You try and create a winning ethos through that. A big part of us in the Wales set-up is we have tried to get the players to be confident about having an input. We have a group of people where we get on well together, we have some fun and we aren't afraid to disagree or dispute. It's healthy. You create a situation where there is no issue with challenging. The end result is that when we make a decision it's one that we've all been involved in."

Gatland acknowledges that the 2019 World Cup will likely be the end point for a few of Wales' more notable internationals but for the here and now, the focus returns to the Vale and the Six Nations. Gatland will preside over a 34-man squad for the forthcoming championship. It is a competition that has proved to be a happy hunting ground for him. The Grand Slams of 2008 and 2012 dovetail with their success in 2013. But for him the memory of a certain try in 2009 was the perfect incarnation of his coaching philosophy.

It came at Murrayfield. Shane Williams found himself on the right wing, an uncertain position, but he managed to offload to Leigh Halfpenny who scored in the corner to make it 21-3 to Wales. "It was a special moment," Gatland smiles as he recalls it but more important on that day was their victory.

Such moments are a perfect manifestation of the work he puts in to ensure success both in the short and long-term. But that hard work will mean nothing unless Wales are on the right side of the scoreboard. It's the lifeblood of the man. "There's nothing in between when it comes to rugby, it's agony or ecstasy."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/253811.html#MSahtOOLG76Dl5xP.9

What a tediously annoying and pointless thing to do.

I take it you've never had a five year old boy to look after. Tedious, annoying and pointless are three of the more charming adjectives that could be used to describe them. Smelly, sticky and whiney are more the norm.

I can't believe Gats still thinks he got the lions selection right.

For such a winner, must be really annoying not to have won any NZ caps

i like gatland. his approach to the mindgames is so southern hemisphere. the desire to win, forces all their super-competitive coaches to try to find any and every angle of physical, technical and mental advantage.

always makes me smile when he starts before the big games with predictions about how the opposition are going to approach the Wales match. comedy gold.

Submachine wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

The Saint wrote:In the words of the great man himself - "I like winning. I don't believe in the bull of playing well and losing, I'd rather play like crap and win a game any day of the week."


Even as a five-year-old, Warren Gatland just wanted to win. Every night before he played for Eastern Suburbs, he wore his rugby shirt to bed. Just before he drifted off into dreams of winning the following day, he'd fold up his kit and put it on the end of his bed.

In his school years, Gatland's lunch hour would be spent with a rugby ball in hand or playing ball rush, a version of British bulldog; the summer would be cricket's turn. The afternoon, more often than not, would be spent sat in the classroom caked in mud. He'd be barefooted; wearing shoes to school only occurred from the age of 12. Any matches, casual or more competitive, were only worthwhile in his eyes if the score was kept.


"If they were out in the playground playing as a class and if we were playing rugby or football and the teacher was playing so there was no score, I had no interest," Gatland told ESPN as the fire flickered and the snow fell outside the cafe at the Vale. "It didn't drive me, I turned off. It took me a long time to realise that about myself, that's what drove me. It is competition and being successful."

Years on and as we sit after Gatland named his eighth Six Nations squad as Wales coach, the desire to win remains intrinsic to his DNA. "I'm still driven now. If we lose a game I don't sleep very well that night or the next night. I take it to heart. I expect players to be like that.

Further to the discussion, Gatland was asked about how he handles the media -
"It's just part of the job," Gatland said. "I've got quite a good handle on it. I don't always think the media reflect public opinion and I think I'm a reasonable judge of that. There's no cowpat with me, I just tell it straight. I think the public get that and understand and respect it. They are almost like the silent majority while there are the minority who kick off. It was the same in Ireland.

"People tell me I'm under pressure, but who created it? It wasn't created by me. Was it someone in the media? It's my biggest challenge at the moment. I pride myself on being honest and straight up, if I'm asked for my opinion, I'll give them an opinion. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Those are the sort of ideals I've lived by.

"I have no problem with people being critical of me, or people disagreeing with me, as with selection it's a matter of opinion. I like to think at times I admit I made a mistake and you expect other people to do that."

The most controversial selection call of Gatland's coaching career was the Brian O'Driscoll case in the third Test of the 2013 British & Irish Lions tour. Gatland was widely pilloried pre-match for his decision to drop the veteran. The 41-16 thrashing his Lions handed out to the Wallabies was validation. When he took his seat in the post-match press conference he referred to reaction to the selection as "vitriolic". Even now, 18 months on, the memories provoke frustration.

"I was blown away by that. It is a pressure job and that's what I was paid to do, perhaps that was their take on it. I understand that but after a 40-point result they probably think they have put two-dozen eggs in one basket and it's tough to retract from that. There are others who still can't acknowledge that (Keith Wood). That's part of the learning process."


There is no autocracy with Gatland when it comes to planning and preparation. If a coach or player is not challenging a decision, he wonders why. Some need an arm around them and others need "a good boot up the backside". "You try and create a winning ethos through that. A big part of us in the Wales set-up is we have tried to get the players to be confident about having an input. We have a group of people where we get on well together, we have some fun and we aren't afraid to disagree or dispute. It's healthy. You create a situation where there is no issue with challenging. The end result is that when we make a decision it's one that we've all been involved in."

Gatland acknowledges that the 2019 World Cup will likely be the end point for a few of Wales' more notable internationals but for the here and now, the focus returns to the Vale and the Six Nations. Gatland will preside over a 34-man squad for the forthcoming championship. It is a competition that has proved to be a happy hunting ground for him. The Grand Slams of 2008 and 2012 dovetail with their success in 2013. But for him the memory of a certain try in 2009 was the perfect incarnation of his coaching philosophy.

It came at Murrayfield. Shane Williams found himself on the right wing, an uncertain position, but he managed to offload to Leigh Halfpenny who scored in the corner to make it 21-3 to Wales. "It was a special moment," Gatland smiles as he recalls it but more important on that day was their victory.

Such moments are a perfect manifestation of the work he puts in to ensure success both in the short and long-term. But that hard work will mean nothing unless Wales are on the right side of the scoreboard. It's the lifeblood of the man. "There's nothing in between when it comes to rugby, it's agony or ecstasy."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/253811.html#MSahtOOLG76Dl5xP.9

What a tediously annoying and pointless thing to do.

I take it you've never had a five year old boy to look after. Tedious, annoying and pointless are three of the more charming adjectives that could be used to describe them. Smelly, sticky and whiney are more the norm.

You are correct Submachine!

I can't imagine being on the cusp of drifting to sleep and suddenly deciding to change and fold my clothes. 

Granted, most of the time at this age it is more of a 'passing out' rather than a graceful, angelic drift into the sleep cycle.

I was sick a bit in my mouth after the third paragraph...

Shouldn't this article be entitled:

Warren Gatland, winning coach in the Northern Hemisphere with a winning mentality in the Northern Hemisphere, but with no sense of loyalty to great servants of the Welsh game.

Has a ring to it. Just sayin'

Reads like he has had the success of the all blacks coach...

Gatland does have a good record of winning games in the NH againts NH teams. BUT, does not have a very good record when it come's to the beating SH teams.....Does he.

Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

rodders wrote:I can't believe Gats still thinks he got the lions selection right.

Haters gonna hate.

majesticimperialman wrote:Gatland does have a good record of winning games in the NH againts NH teams. BUT, does not have a very good record when it come's to the beating SH teams.....Does he.

Compared to you, you mean? Or who are you comparing him to?

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

yes he is a 50:50 coach, he has won 50% of the 6 Nations he has entered with 2 Grand Slams.

And also a lions tour (100%) and he didn't lose to japan, that was mcbryde.

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

quinsforever wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

yes but if he wasn't on the tour how could he have lost it?

Knew the Gatland haters would be all over this. Coaching record can NOT be argued with .

Gwlad wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

yes he is a 50:50 coach, he has won 50% of the 6 Nations he has entered with 2 Grand Slams.

And also a lions tour (100%) and he didn't lose to japan, that was mcbryde.

he almost lost a lions tour against an utterly woeful australia that have only beaten england once in the last 5 matches

and if the japan loss cant be laid at his door, then neither can howleys 6N win.

quinsforever wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

Doesn't make Rev any less spot on though. Nice try anyway.

The Saint wrote:Knew the Gatland haters would be all over this. Coaching record can NOT be argued with .

Which is probably why you posted it!

Gwlad wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

yes but if he wasn't on the tour how could he have lost it?  

was gatland being paid by the WRU in the position of head coach while he was with the lions? or fixing his ankles or whatever it was he did?

answer yes. so i'll let him claim the howley 6N, but also give him the japan loss. which by gutting the welsh team with his lions selection he surely contributed to more than mcbryde!!!

nathan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Knew the Gatland haters would be all over this. Coaching record can NOT be argued with .

Which is probably why you posted it!

we're all just getting a bit of a feb 6th warmup in

BamBam wrote:For such a winner, must be really annoying not to have won any NZ caps

So, it doesn't change the fact that he's one the best coaches in world rugby. Where as Lancaster, never capped for England and not won anything of note while coaching England. For every winner like Gatland there is an opposite, aka a loser. Lancaster fits the bill.

quinsforever wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

yes he is a 50:50 coach, he has won 50% of the 6 Nations he has entered with 2 Grand Slams.

And also a lions tour (100%) and he didn't lose to japan, that was mcbryde.

he almost lost a lions tour against an utterly woeful australia that have only beaten england once in the last 5 matches

and if the japan loss cant be laid at his door, then neither can howleys 6N win.

He almost lost? what was the score in the 3rd test, i forget?

quinsforever wrote:

nathan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Knew the Gatland haters would be all over this. Coaching record can NOT be argued with .

Which is probably why you posted it!

we're all just getting a bit of a feb 6th warmup in

Can't argue with both these comments tbh.

Does that mean Sir Clive 'almost won' the 2005 series? Or that Graham Henry almost won in 2001? Geech definitely almost won in 2009 but the only person who has definitely not almost won since 1997 is Gats.

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Gatland does have a good record of winning games in the NH againts NH teams. BUT, does not have a very good record when it come's to the beating SH teams.....Does he.

Compared to you, you mean? Or who are you comparing him to?

I was not comparing him to any one....I was simply saying that his winning record over the NH teams as been very good.

But his winning record over the SH teams in the same time as not been so good.

Bomber has a better winning record...18 from 31.

just saying...

as does martin johnson
SCW
Brian Ashton
Jack Rowell
and Geoff Cooke

ony Rob Andrew and Andy Robinson have a worse winning record for England.

there now, the illusory power of statistics...

quinsforever wrote:Bomber has a better winning record...18 from 31.

just saying...

True

But he hasn't won any of the 6 Nations competitions he has started despite being close to doing so on at least one occasion, surely when playing a round robin competition the object is to win the games so that you win the competition, or have i, and Stewie, been laboring under a misapprehension of the rules for years

its a topic for another thread, but the 6N is a great but flawed tournament.

last year for example, had england not played against scotland on an utter bog (nematodes my behind) they would have already nailed the points difference before the final game against italy.

a grand slam is a great achievement. anything else is just winning on points difference. a win, but given the long spread out format of the competition, with either home or away but not both against any given team, there is too much randomness for me to believe it demonstrates much.

no other competition in the world that i am aware of has a pool stage without home and away fixtures against each opponent. and theres a good reason for that.

anyway, i like gatland and i think he is a very good coach. wales doesnt have anything like the same player resources of england, yet gatland has utilised what he has at his disposal very well.

it's just good to keep everyone's feet on the ground by occasionally challenging the orthodox view...

This is a comedy thread isnt it?

lostinwales wrote:This is a comedy thread isnt it?

yep sure is….apparently it is more important to win individual games in a competition than the competition itself and lets not forget Gats also 'almost lost' the lions tour (in the 3rd test i think when we won by how many points?)

Had Stewie achieved Gatland's extraordinary record in the 6 Nations then i think it is safe to say some posters would have a slightly different take on how 'flawed' the 6 Nations is…right now such a stance smacks of sour grapes and is more like the stuff you'd expect Gats to spout. Comedy gold.

Love how this is heating up for the big push in two weeks!

any competition with a pool stage needs a knockout stage too if there is not home and away matches. otherwise it depends what year it is and what what other peoples home or away matches are. that shouldnt have as big a bearing as it does.

i like the tournament. but it was not designed this way. it just sort or organically grew in an ugly fashion.

the RWC is a much better competition, obviously

Gatland's record as a coach in terms of trophies won is absolutely top class. Fans personally don't like him, including many Welsh fans, but his trophy cabinet with Wasps, Wales and the Lions is hard to argue with (plus a World Cup semi final). His record against the big SH sides is a dark mark which will consume Gatland more than anyone, but of course it's not like Wales were knocking off those SH teams with any regularity before he took over, in fact the improvement was dramatic.

I don't really understand the naysayers really, unless it's the "performance matters more than results" apologists brigade out in force, or Keith Wood has hacked into 606v2 with numerous accounts to continue his silly tirade.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I don't really understand the naysayers really, unless it's the "performance matters more than results" apologists brigade out in force, or Keith Wood has hacked into 606v2 with numerous accounts to continue his silly tirade.

Not often we agree FES, but you're absolutely correct about Keith Wood. I often believe he's posting under the name 'rodders' on this website. I hope we don't have him commenting on our matches in the 6 Nations. But if our opposition fans want to do away with Jiffy (who is a legend), then I guess we'll put up with him.

quinsforever wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

yes but if he wasn't on the tour how could he have lost it?  

was gatland being paid by the WRU in the position of head coach while he was with the lions? or fixing his ankles or whatever it was he did?

answer yes. so i'll let him claim the howley 6N, but also give him the japan loss. which by gutting the welsh team with his lions selection he surely contributed to more than mcbryde!!!

I believe selection for the tour was with McBryde really. He still had enough quality available to take to Japan, but chose not to take players like Ryan Jones.

I don't really credit anybody for Wales winning that Six Nations, as I think the players won the tournament despite Howley (who had us playing some atrocious rugby before the England game).

Who's fave for the Lions in 17? Gats?, Lancaster? Or does Schmidt have a show?

quinsforever wrote:any competition with a pool stage needs a knockout stage too if there is not home and away matches. otherwise it depends what year it is and what what other peoples home or away matches are. that shouldnt have as big a bearing as it does.

i like the tournament. but it was not designed this way. it just sort or organically grew in an ugly fashion.

the RWC is a much better competition, obviously

there must be at least 2003 reasons why!

Taylorman wrote:Who's fave for the Lions in 17? Gats?, Lancaster? Or does Schmidt have a show?

If Stewie wins RWC then its a shoe in, if not I can't see anyone else but Gats and the Irish fella

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Who's fave for the Lions in 17? Gats?, Lancaster? Or does Schmidt have a show?

If Stewie wins RWC then its a shoe in, if not I can't see anyone else but Gats and the Irish fella

Nothing wrong with it being a coaching team with the Fatman in charge. Schmidt, Vern (both mates) and Gats would be an awesome team.

I've had enough of the disruption the Lions causes to the Wales team and management. What was the ridiculous rule last time - Gat's Lions contract stipulated he had to take a year away from Wales?! FFS!

Someone else this time. Schmidt and his Irish coaching team, or Lancaster and his English coaching buddies. Throw in a token Welsh coach - how about Neil Jenkins as kicking coach? That'll do for me from a Wales perspective.

A current coach of any of the homes nations is a no no for me.

George Carlin wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Who's fave for the Lions in 17? Gats?, Lancaster? Or does Schmidt have a show?

If Stewie wins RWC then its a shoe in, if not I can't see anyone else but Gats and the Irish fella

Nothing wrong with it being a coaching team with the Fatman in charge. Schmidt, Vern (both mates) and Gats would be an awesome team.

Schmidt, Cotter and Gatland... With Schmidt as the main man..?

Sounds great, probably brilliant for the three coaches too..

Be nice if some other home nations could actually produce the odd home grown coach

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Or...WG, a 50:50 coach with a 50:50 record against Japan, and a 50:50 win record overall in 8 years in charge, talks a lot of guff about winning.

What games has he lost to Japan? I firmly lay the blame at McBryde's door for that.

Wales didnt ask gatland to go on the lions tour. his departed created the conditions for whoever came in. by that measure, howley has a better 6N record than Gatland!

yes but if he wasn't on the tour how could he have lost it?  

was gatland being paid by the WRU in the position of head coach while he was with the lions? or fixing his ankles or whatever it was he did?

answer yes. so i'll let him claim the howley 6N, but also give him the japan loss. which by gutting the welsh team with his lions selection he surely contributed to more than mcbryde!!!

I believe selection for the tour was with McBryde really. He still had enough quality available to take to Japan, but chose not to take players like Ryan Jones.

I don't really credit anybody for Wales winning that Six Nations, as I think the players won the tournament despite Howley (who had us playing some atrocious rugby before the England game).

i think we all know who won that one...steve walsh

lostinwales wrote:Be nice if some other home nations could actually produce the odd home grown coach

Most countries pick a coach with a CV to do the job, not just promoting the kids coach to big boy rugby.

Has Lancaster ever won a competition, league or championship....?


Gatland

Two HECs
Two Grand Slams
4th place at the world cup
Winning lions tour


Schmidt

Ranfurly shield
Top 14
Pro 12
2 HECs
Amlin cup


Cotter

Super 12 x2
Top14
77 unbeaten games at home