6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash

by GLove39 Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

ENGLAND v SCOTLAND
Saturday 14 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)
Twickers

Live on BBC1

Referee: Romain Poitey (FFR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU) vomit

AR2: Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Teams:

ENGLAND
6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Alasta10

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester).

SCOTLAND
6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Tucker12

6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Tucker12

Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); Dougie Fife (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Tommy Seymour, Finn Russell (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (captn) (Gloucester); Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish) David Denton (Edinburgh).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Ryan Grant (both Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (London Irish), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Greig Tonks (both Edinburgh)

The result of the Ireland game beforehand could make things very interesting from an English perspective. Tournament could be blown wide open, & see England looking for a big score with an eye to next weekend & things coming down to points difference.

For us, there's nothing at stake bar pride & some melted Indian Rupees.

Twickenham was always going to be tough, but given how things have gone this tournament I'm absolutely dreading this match.
Our record down South is more embarrassing than Natalie Bennett on LBC! 32 long years since we last won at Twickenham and in the last half century we've managed just one other win in 1971. Stretch things back to the whole century and we can double our total with wins in 1926 & 1938!

Fear we'll see a similar game to England - Italy, valiant start by us & some swashbuckling stuff before ultimately being crushed in the final quarter. Although if we 'defend' the maul like we did against Italy the score will be worse.

On the bright side though, scoring any points would be an improvement on last years Calcutta Cup match... Braveheart

Preconditions people? Am I being too gloomy?

by reallybored Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:02 pm

Cyril wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:

A quirk of a small enough sample size.

It's Cyril who gave the conditions, 7 1/2.
I think it proved my point though. Scotland have played a lot of Tier 2 sides and that's where a good number of the tries were scored.

Still, if some Scottish fans want to claim that they wouldn't choose a single English back over a Scottish one then that's up to them I guess.

Really?

Against top tier (NZ, SA, Fra, Wal, Arg)

England 6
Scotland 11

I'd take Youngs in a heartbeat and obviously Tuilagi and maybe Farrell. Of the bunch tomorrow, other than Youngs, I'd probably take Watson but over Fife (Maitland > Watson though).

Cyril any Scottish players make the England squad in your opinion?

by No 7&1/2 Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:06 pm

Lies, damn lies and stats eh.

by Cyril Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:07 pm

reallybored wrote:
Cyril wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:

A quirk of a small enough sample size.

It's Cyril who gave the conditions, 7 1/2.
I think it proved my point though. Scotland have played a lot of Tier 2 sides and that's where a good number of the tries were scored.

Still, if some Scottish fans want to claim that they wouldn't choose a single English back over a Scottish one then that's up to them I guess.
Really?

Against top tier (NZ, SA, Fra, Wal, Arg)

England 6
Scotland 11

I'd take Youngs in a heartbeat and obviously Tuilagi and maybe Farrell. Of the bunch tomorrow, other than Youngs, I'd probably take Watson but over Fife (Maitland > Watson though).

Cyril any Scottish players make the England squad in your opinion?

You completely misunderstood my original comments!

Anyway, life's too short...

Scottish players in the England squad? Honestly, no I don't think I'd have any. We could possibly have done with Hogg while Brown was out injured. Otherwise, no.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:10 pm

“Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”

6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Scott_Johnson_2094129b

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:12 pm

Cyril wrote:Scottish players in the England squad? Honestly, no I don't think I'd have any. We could possibly have done with Hogg while Brown was out injured. Otherwise, no.

I'd agree with you. I don't think a single player in the Scotland XV would make the England XV.

I would personally have Jonny Gray on the bench ahead of Parling (different type of lock though granted), but that's it.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
“Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”

Clown.

by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:21 pm

Lets have another stats attack - from the bbc - Hogg has the most metres run and the most defenders beaten of any player in the 6N. There was a bunch of otehr stats similar on the BBC but most have disappeared

by Cyril Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:24 pm

TJ wrote:Lets have another stats attack - from the bbc - Hogg has the most metres run and the most defenders beaten of any player in the 6N. There was a bunch of otehr stats similar on the BBC but most have disappeared

Yeah, but it's what you do with the metres run and defenders beaten.

Full backs will almost always have the best metres run stats (well, except when Picamoles was tearing it up Smile

).

by lostinwales Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:25 pm

What that does prove is that in the games to date there has been a lot of kicking to Hogg

by Weegie Wizard Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:26 pm

I've been away this morning but I think I'm reading that folk here think Nowell is better than Seymour.

Can that be right? Is that really the consensus?? Headscratch

by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:28 pm

lostinwales wrote:What that does prove is that in the games to date there has been a lot of kicking to Hogg

and the defenders beaten? NO one kicked to Brown?

by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:28 pm

Weegie Wizard wrote:I've been away this morning but I think I'm reading that folk here think Nowell is better than Seymour.

Can that be right? Is that really the consensus??

He is English so he must be better. At least he is not a plastic jock Wink

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:30 pm

Weegie Wizard wrote:I've been away this morning but I think I'm reading that folk here think Nowell is better than Seymour.

Can that be right? Is that really the consensus??

Lancaster loves Nowell. I don't think he'd pick Julian Savea over Nowell.

by Cyril Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:31 pm

TJ wrote:
lostinwales wrote:What that does prove is that in the games to date there has been a lot of kicking to Hogg
and the defenders beaten? NO one kicked to Brown?

Brown has missed almost 2 games injured (out of 3). Has Hogg played all 3 games?

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:32 pm

Cyril wrote:
TJ wrote:
lostinwales wrote:What that does prove is that in the games to date there has been a lot of kicking to Hogg
and the defenders beaten? NO one kicked to Brown?
Brown has missed almost 2 games injured (out of 3). Has Hogg played all 3 games?

Yes he has, so you'd need to divide Hogg's stats by 3 and give an average to make any sort of viable comparison.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:34 pm

As fun as this 'my dad could beat up your dad' chat is, could we move on?

The most important question here is, will Chris Robshaw's missus be singing God Save the Queen??

6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Eng-v-Fiji-9-11-12-819

6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Eng-v-Fiji-9-11-12-819

by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:38 pm

Na - we want Subo 6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 9 Susan-boyle-film

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:43 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:As fun as this 'my dad could beat up your dad' chat is, could we move on?

The most important question here is, will Chris Robshaw's missus be singing God Save the Queen??

Bloomin heck! She's almost as beautiful as Mrs fES.....

by reallybored Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:43 pm

TJ wrote:Lets have another stats attack - from the bbc - Hogg has the most metres run and the most defenders beaten of any player in the 6N. There was a bunch of otehr stats similar on the BBC but most have disappeared

According to the official 6 nations site:

Most carries - Stuart Hogg (39)
Most clean breaks - Stuart Hogg (5)
Most defenders beaten - Stuart Hogg (12)
Most metres gained - Stuart Hogg (317)

You'd jump at the chance to have him in your team; one of the best counter-attackers in the game, searing pace, great step, able to play at first-receiver, huge boot on him and capable of a bit of magic, plus he's still 22. But because he's Scottish, he's probably a bit average.

The only area where Brown has an edge is defensively but Hogg's failings in these departments have been over-blown, fell off a tackle against Fofana and all of a sudden he's Visser MarkII. Can't think of any howlers since last year's match in Cardiff.

by jimbopip Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:46 pm

Subo, as my step father used to say, "She'd last a working man a long time" but then again it'd probably seem a lot longer.

by EWT Spoons Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:As fun as this 'my dad could beat up your dad' chat is, could we move on?

The most important question here is, will Chris Robshaw's missus be singing God Save the Queen??

DAMN!

by jimbopip Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:47 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:As fun as this 'my dad could beat up your dad' chat is, could we move on?

The most important question here is, will Chris Robshaw's missus be singing God Save the Queen??

Bloomin heck! She's almost as beautiful as Mrs fES.....

But I'll bet she wears less diamonte when doing the housework.

by EWT Spoons Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:52 pm

jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:As fun as this 'my dad could beat up your dad' chat is, could we move on?

The most important question here is, will Chris Robshaw's missus be singing God Save the Queen??

Bloomin heck! She's almost as beautiful as Mrs fES.....

But I'll bet she wears less diamonte when doing the housework.

sounds good to me

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:54 pm

Now come on guys, we can't start making jokes to wind FES up!

I mean, I was going to say "I agree" when he said "she's almost as good looking as Mrs FES", but I took the moral high ground! Very Happy

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:56 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Now come on guys, we can't start making jokes to wind FES up!

I mean, I was going to say "I agree" when he said "she's almost as good looking as Mrs FES", but I took the moral high ground!

You just stay on that moral high ground of yours young man..... boxing

by BamBam Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:59 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:I've been away this morning but I think I'm reading that folk here think Nowell is better than Seymour.

Can that be right? Is that really the consensus??

Lancaster loves Nowell. I don't think he'd pick Julian Savea over Nowell.

And most have agreed that Seymour > Nowell, I definitely said that!

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:00 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Now come on guys, we can't start making jokes to wind FES up!

I mean, I was going to say "I agree" when he said "she's almost as good looking as Mrs FES", but I took the moral high ground!

You just stay on that moral high ground of yours young man.....

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:02 pm

BamBam wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:I've been away this morning but I think I'm reading that folk here think Nowell is better than Seymour.

Can that be right? Is that really the consensus??

Lancaster loves Nowell. I don't think he'd pick Julian Savea over Nowell.

And most have agreed that Seymour > Nowell, I definitely said that!

Well when I said that no Scot would make the England XV I was comparing Seymour against Watson, as I understand both will line up on the right wing. I'd have Nowell in ahead of Fife, but Seymour vs Nowell is much closer and I'd probably favour the American if I had to choose.

by tigertattie Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:27 pm

reallybored wrote:
Cyril wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:

A quirk of a small enough sample size.

It's Cyril who gave the conditions, 7 1/2.
I think it proved my point though. Scotland have played a lot of Tier 2 sides and that's where a good number of the tries were scored.

Still, if some Scottish fans want to claim that they wouldn't choose a single English back over a Scottish one then that's up to them I guess.
Really?

Against top tier (NZ, SA, Fra, Wal, Arg)

England 6
Scotland 11

I'd take Youngs in a heartbeat and obviously Tuilagi and maybe Farrell. Of the bunch tomorrow, other than Youngs, I'd probably take Watson but over Fife (Maitland > Watson though).

Cyril any Scottish players make the England squad in your opinion?

A couple of points to note!

In the battle of the two backlines! I'm sorry to say that England win it! Seymour is better than Nouell or Watson but he is struggling to get back to form after his odd groin injury against Les Blues!

Hogg is better than Brown on current form. Brown was great last season but Hogg is hitting his top form right now!

To say Maitland is greater than Watson is a bit of an odd one given that Maitland cannot score a try for toffee at the moment!

Joseph is currently much better than Bennett going on recent form!

Burrell (who I've never really rated) is doing better (at least more consistantly) than Matt Scott!

Fife is not as good a Nouell or Watson!

Ford vs Russell is a complete 50/50 imo!

Youngs owns Laidlaw by a country mile!

by hugehandoff Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:51 pm

Interesting comments comparing the two backlines. When was the last time an England selection got the excitement going? A real missed opportunity tomorrow as I think Slade over Burrell and Wade over Nowell would have livened it all up. Even if Burrell and Twelvetrees, when he comes on, do ok I don't think it really proves anything for the RWC.

by Geordie Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:03 pm

Well lets hope if England are going to play the same woeful aimless kicking game, that we have chasers who at least try to put some pressure on the catcher.

Burrell lucky to be starting.

Nice to see Lawes back but he will be blowing out of arris on 60 mins.

Hartley's been very low key....he needs a monster game especially in the lineout with Lawes back. Tom Youngs could consider himself unlucky not to be starting.

The whole England team need to simply be far far more switched on, energetic and up for it than they were in Ireland.
Scotland getting a lot of negative press but if England show up with the same lethargic, at times directionless performance (im not detracting from Irelands performance either) they'll be on the end of a defeat.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:08 pm

England - Scotland under 20s on Sky sports 3 at half past.

Scotland going for 3 in a row...

by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:10 pm

beshocked wrote:
TJ wrote:
beshocked wrote:TJ every single English back are better than their Scottish counterparts.

Hogg vs Brown is close though. Perhaps on current form I would have Hogg - he's the one Scotsman who might get in the England side.

We both played Italy at home - we scored 6 tries against them, you scored an intercept try.........

Nonsense - utter rubbish. really - your credibility just went thataway

I wouldn't take any of the english backs. Not one. ( well before we broke som of ours anyway. I'd have a few of your forwards tho.

Do you really think Ford /' Farrell is better than Russell - really? Any English centres better than Dunbar?

IMO there is much of a muchness about them. Scots guys more exciting and mercurial but less solid defensivly across the whole lot.

Rugby isn't just about attacking.

I would say Russell is a better attacking 10 than Farrell but Farrell is bigger,stronger, better defender, more experienced, more assured, better goal and tactical kicker.

Farrell was 10 when England beat the ABs - it wasn't an one man show but he helped control matters. He hasn't lost an international head to head with Sexton - 3-0 to Farrell. Sexton can't bully a man the same size as him. Farrell has helped England win many matches.

As for Ford - Ford has less experience than Farrell but more than Russell, he has inspired England to victories over Wales and Australia - not bad for a youngster.

Being so called exciting doesn't matter when you've got no structure and make poor decisions.

Substance over style every day of the week.

The Sexton hit on Ford set the tone for that match, it's something that wouldn't have happened to Farrell at least not without an equal reaction, so it is a very interesting dilemma, myself i'd go with the more assured and safe Farrell.

Russell has potential but he's far from the finished article and would not be starting ahead of Ford in a month of Sundays, his tactical kicking can at times be atrocious and he doesn't make up for it with a solid defence.

by Scottish White Line Fever Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:England - Scotland under 20s on Sky sports 3 at half past.

Scotland going for 3 in a row...

Traditionally we get hammered in the U20 fixture, so it will be interesting to see how this group of U20s get on

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:17 pm

I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:18 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:England - Scotland under 20s on Sky sports 3 at half past.

Scotland going for 3 in a row...

England look a hell of a lot bigger...

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:18 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Agree fes. He looks a real talent and could develop into a top 10 but at the minute he's still developing.

by **Notch** Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:23 pm

Seymour and Maitland (is he playing) are as good as their English equivalents to be fair. Still rather annoyed at Seymour getting nicked by Scotland.

by Scottish White Line Fever Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:England - Scotland under 20s on Sky sports 3 at half past.

Scotland going for 3 in a row...

England look a hell of a lot bigger...

The pitch looks like a big of a bog so it probably won't be a great game!

by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:32 pm

Notch wrote:Seymour and Maitland (is he playing) are as good as their English equivalents to be fair. Still rather annoyed at Seymour getting nicked by Scotland.

Maitland has been injured and still battling back from injury. He'll be in the WC squad no doubt. Good player but just doesn't back himself enough in getting over the line.

Seymour has been great for Glasgow and Scotland. Very sharp and direct player. Doubt he'd have had a look in for Ireland though with Bowe and Trimble on the scene.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:34 pm

Seymour is good player, not sure I'd take him over Watson.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:11 pm

We're getting pumped.

by **RDW** Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:14 pm

26-6 England HT.

Scotland have made a lot of mistakes, and have been blown away physically.

by Scottish White Line Fever Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:We're getting pumped.

The last ten minutes have been a disaster! But even prior to that, England were breaking the defensive line at will. We've inflicted some of the damage on ourselves - their first try came from an overthrown line out in our own 22; and then we dealt poorly with the kick through for their second try. England well worthy of their lead though and it looks likely to get messy in the second half.

by Imperialbigdave Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:21 pm

Just not on the same level physically. Bradbury and Davidson are the only forwards who look as big and athletic as their opponents. This neednt be a killer if we were to play a fast loose offloading game, but were not doing that. The forwards arent getting over the gainline because they are too static, and as such the backs are trying to cover to much ground, which tbf they are making an effort, but its never going to work. What we need is Hutchison to just peg the england forwards back with some intelligent kicking,hes getting the ball enough, but hes too focussed on playing a running game.

by Scottish White Line Fever Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:24 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:Just not on the same level physically. Bradbury and Davidson are the only forwards who look as big and athletic as their opponents. This neednt be a killer if we were to play a fast loose offloading game, but were not doing that. The forwards arent getting over the gainline because they are too static, and as such the backs are trying to cover to much ground, which tbf they are making an effort, but its never going to work. What we need is Hutchison to just peg the england forwards back with some intelligent kicking,hes getting the ball enough, but hes too focussed on playing a running game.

Agreed. Both sides have been trying to play running rugby, but England's defence has been much more organised. The breakdown has been a mess, with both teams giving away stupid penalties. The referee has been pretty whistle-happy so I imagine we'll see a yellow card or two soon.

by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:36 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

In the bath / Glasgow games the English papers I saw even had Russell as playing better than Ford. I agree Russell has not had the best of 6N tho and can be a bit flaky and does make tactical mistake on occasion - and is far from the finished product but Ford also make blunders and offers less running threat

by Imperialbigdave Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:42 pm

TJ wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

In the bath / Glasgow games the English papers I saw even had Russell as playing better than Ford. I agree Russell has not had the best of 6N tho and can be a bit flaky and does make tactical mistake on occasion - and is far from the finished product but Ford also make blunders and offers less running threat

Sorry, im a huge Russell fan, but to say this guy doesnt offer as much running threat is mmmm... well I dont agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDhJDPmoxs

by Scottish White Line Fever Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:43 pm

That's a good try. 26-11

by Sponsored content