6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash

    
ENGLAND v SCOTLAND  
Saturday 14 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)
Twickers

Live on BBC1

Referee: Romain Poitey (FFR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)  
AR2: Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Teams:

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester).

SCOTLAND

Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); Dougie Fife (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Tommy Seymour, Finn Russell (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (captn) (Gloucester); Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish) David Denton (Edinburgh).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Ryan Grant (both Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (London Irish), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Greig Tonks (both Edinburgh)


The result of the Ireland game beforehand could make things very interesting from an English perspective. Tournament could be blown wide open, & see England looking for a big score with an eye to next weekend & things coming down to points difference.

For us, there's nothing at stake bar pride & some melted Indian Rupees.

Twickenham was always going to be tough, but given how things have gone this tournament I'm absolutely dreading this match.
Our record down South is more embarrassing than Natalie Bennett on LBC! 32 long years since we last won at Twickenham and in the last half century we've managed just one other win in 1971. Stretch things back to the whole century and we can double our total with wins in 1926 & 1938!

Fear we'll see a similar game to England - Italy, valiant start by us & some swashbuckling stuff before ultimately being crushed in the final quarter. Although if we 'defend' the maul like we did against Italy the score will be worse.

On the bright side though, scoring any points would be an improvement on last years Calcutta Cup match...

Preconditions people? Am I being too gloomy?

Brad Barritt has been widely touted to replace Burrell in the England line-up. He's just suffered a medial ligament strain in the same knee that kept him out before. Doesn't sound good for his chances.

I'm prophesying 40 points for England.
At the rugby club this morn friends told me the place to be before the match on Saturday is the London Scottish clubhouse. Is it likely to be stowed out or will we be able to just stroll in? If any of our tribe can offer advice it would be appreciated.
p.s. Playing for the under 12's young Pipetto showed lots of skill and all the tenacity and grit of a Scottish international player today. Unfortunately the player in question was Tim Visser.

Rugby Fan wrote:Brad Barritt has been widely touted to replace Burrell in the England line-up. He's just suffered a medial ligament strain in the same knee that kept him out before. Doesn't sound good for his chances.

Who is injured? Barritt or Burrell?

jimbopip wrote:p.s. Playing for the under 12's young Pipetto showed lots of skill and all the tenacity and grit of a Scottish international player today. Unfortunately the player in question was Tim Visser.

Can't have been as bad as Visser was yesterday, did nothing all day, then got ripped just outside Edinburgh's 22 and let Treviso in for their only try.

jimbopip wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Brad Barritt has been widely touted to replace Burrell in the England line-up. He's just suffered a medial ligament strain in the same knee that kept him out before. Doesn't sound good for his chances.

Who is injured? Barritt or Burrell?

Barritt

I think I will be "watching" this from behind the sofa

Although i expect England to win. I do expect them to play better than they did against Ireland. Not give away toooooooooo many penalties in goal kicking range. ok Laidlaw might not be in the same class as Sexton, Halfpenny, but he can still punish you just as good.

Barrit's injury is to his ankle. don't know if it is broken or just a bad sprain. Lets hope he will be all right.

England's pack absolutely terrifies me about this game,especially after what happened last game.

If we can compete it wil be respectable. If not....

Just watched a recording of the Saracens v Wasps game. No sign of Kelly Brown, so probably fair to say that he is not going to be in contention for next week.

Big Jim played the full 80 mins and it has to be said played pretty well, putting himself about in his usual fashion.

Barrit limped off with a nasty looking knee injury, I would be surprised if he is fit.

From the club side of this forum it seems that Croft has done his shoulder, so there will be a different bench for England also.

Easter had a brilliant game for Quins, look out for a big sub appearance from him this weekend.

If Croft is out, i guess Tom Wood would be on the bench.

majesticimperialman wrote:If Croft is out, i guess Tom Wood would be on the bench.

That is hardly going to weaken them!

Poor Tom Croft really has had no luck with injures!

majesticimperialman wrote:If Croft is out, i guess Tom Wood would be on the bench.

Or John Barclay...Well there's more chance of that than seeing him in a Scotland jersey.

Croft - that might be it for Leicester (if some rumors are correct) and possibly England as well. I know he has not been everyone's cup of tea but he has been some player on his day.

The Calcutthroat Cup.

I think this could be a close game the Scots have improved a lot this year in boh defence and attack, their forwards neen to step up to gain parity.

Here's what I reckon he'll pick (assuming on injuries)

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Murray
4 Hamilton (worried he'll pick Swinson instead though, who to me is just too underpowered for England)
5 Gray jnr
6 Harley
7 Cowan
8 Denton

9 Laidlaw (we all know Hidalgo-Clyne is a much better option, but he's going to stick with Laidlaw)
10 Russell
11 Visser (close call with Fife, but I think Visser will edge it)
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

Subs: Grant, Brown, Cross, Swinson, Beattie, H-C, Tonks, Scott


This is assuming Lamont, Horne, Maitland and Ashe are injured. Personally I wouldn't have included them anyway due to form / lack of match fitness.

jimbopip wrote:I'm prophesying 40 points for England.
At the rugby club this morn friends told me the place to be before the match on Saturday is the London Scottish clubhouse. Is it likely to be stowed out or will we be able to just stroll in? If any of our tribe can offer advice it would be appreciated.
p.s. Playing for the under 12's young Pipetto showed lots of skill and all the tenacity and grit of a Scottish international player today. Unfortunately the player in question was Tim Visser.

London Scottish will be packed but you will be able to get in, although queue for the bar may take some time. On the plus side the buses for twickers leave from right opposite the ground

glamorganalun wrote:I think this could be a close game the Scots have improved a lot this year in boh defence and attack, their forwards neen to step up to gain parity.

Maybe, but then England have looked dangerous for spells in every game when they get the ball, and Scotland are no where near Ireland when it comes to defense and their kicking game

Laidlaw looked good again for Glaws. Wonder why he's underperforming for Scotland.

The only silver lining, is that for the first time England will be coming up against a team that won't be afraid to run at them. Italy played some nice running rugby and we rewarded with tries. Wales and Ireland played a power game. One of them successful the other not so successful.

England will win IMO and win comfortably but I expect us to play much better than last year's embarrassing capitulation.

If Scotland attempt to over-play running rugby....................... they'll be burned.
They were dragged into a pretty loose counter v counter attacking game against Wales if my memory serves me right and it didn't work out too well.

Scotland and Cotter are too recent a partnership to be trying to do a running game at Twickenham against the best running team in the Championship.  
Maybe bouts of it would be fine, maybe the mood will be 'nothing to lose'.  But Scotland's best bet is to attempt to make the 80 minutes drag for England.  Try to slow them down all over the field by a total commitment to robust defending.  Sometimes the urge in Scotland is to prioritise attack and then leave the openings for a counter.  Going back to a more attritional, dogged game might suit them best to frustrate an England side that will be impatient to get back to their own fast and furious rhythm.

SecretFly wrote:If Scotland attempt to over-play running rugby....................... they'll be burned.
They were dragged into a pretty loose counter v counter attacking game against Wales if my memory serves me right and it didn't work out too well.

Scotland and Cotter are too recent a partnership to be trying to do a running game at Twickenham against the best running team in the Championship.  
Maybe bouts of it would be fine, maybe the mood will be 'nothing to lose'.  But Scotland's best bet is to attempt to make the 80 minutes drag for England.  Try to slow them down all over the field by a total commitment to robust defending.  Sometimes the urge in Scotland is to prioritise attack and then leave the openings for a counter.  Going back to a more attritional, dogged game might suit them best to frustrate an England side that will be impatient to get back to their own fast and furious rhythm.

Yes. It wouldn't make for pretty viewing but in the last few years that is exactly how they have made these kinds of games hell for England. It's a worry in that in trying to become a more adventurous team they have lost a lot of that 'dog'. Last year the only 'dog' came from the pitch.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Laidlaw looked good again for Glaws. Wonder why he's underperforming for Scotland.

Scrum halfs look good or bad depending how the forwards perform. If they get onto the front foot and breaking tackles then the scrum halfs will increase the pace.

Sean Maitland and Stuart McInally added to the Scotland squad for the England clash. Lamont out for the rest of the 6 nations.
http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/15/03/09/maitland-and-mcinally-join-scotland-squad

The midfield battle could be interesting, both teams lining up with rookie fly halves, hard running inside centres (assuming Burrell is playing) and more graceful chaps at 13

Wonder whether they'll just nullify each other

Not too sure what to say about McInally. Personally feel that Pat MacArthur has played well recently at Glasgow. Also Kevin Bryce tbh.

Yes though Kevin Bryce looked good for Glasgow on Friday night.
Saying that McInally was very good for Edinburgh in his first start at hooker. Carried the ball really well and got over the gain line nearly every time. Can't remember too many bads throws at the lineout and the scrum seemed to function well.

Maitland hasn't played for ages and wasn't deemed fit enough for even a cameo against Zebre- now being considered for his pipe opener at Twikenham! Is he that good?! Risky stuff.

Has VC gone slightly mad?

It wouldn't surprise me if he picked Lamont on crutches for the midfield...

The selection of McInally is slightly odd considering Cochrane has probably been ahead of him at Edinburgh recently and playing very well, but you could say the same about Watson and Blake being in the squad ahead of Roddy Grant. I guess Cotter sees certain players as being suited to his overall plan more than others, regardless of their club status.

Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

MacKnocked-on wrote:The selection of McInally is slightly odd considering Cochrane has probably been ahead of him at Edinburgh recently and playing very well, but you could say the same about Watson and Blake being in the squad ahead of Roddy Grant. I guess Cotter sees certain players as being suited to his overall plan more than others, regardless of their club status.

Thats similar to what New Zealand have done in recent years in certain positions. Nathan Harris who is NZ's 3 choice hooker was picked for the All Blacks despite only being 2nd choice at the Chiefs. He suited the style of play the All Blacks want and has gone on to do pretty well.
I'd say long term McInally is the better choice but agree Cochrane has done well for Edinburgh this season and is an ex back rower as well.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

I'm saying sweet FA.

Well despite the year setback mcinally's move seems to be paying dividends


Cochrane has been doing well but he's certainly not the future for Scotland - Brown, mcinally and Bryce are.

Saying that, we certainly could do without Ford being injured and mcinally making his debut!

glamorganalun wrote:I think this could be a close game the Scots have improved a lot this year in boh defence and attack, their forwards neen to step up to gain parity.

I think you'll struggle to find a Scottish fan who will agree with you on that.

England by 20ish.

luvtotup wrote:Maitland hasn't played for ages and wasn't deemed fit enough for even a cameo against Zebre- now being considered for his pipe opener at Twikenham!  Is he that good?! Risky stuff.

I do have stuff

funnyExiledScot wrote:Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

615

This could be an embarrassment. England are playing well and we are absolutely rancid.

The game will go one of 2 ways.

Most Likely - England dominate up front and crush us to death by an excess of 20 points.

Unlikely - Scotland demonstrate the cornered rat principal and attack aggressively and make it a close run thing with England winning by 5 to 10 points.

Come the Apocalypse - Scotland win by any amount of points.

To clarify we have absolutely no chance of winning.

Cyril wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:I think this could be a close game the Scots have improved a lot this year in boh defence and attack, their forwards neen to step up to gain parity.

I think you'll struggle to find a Scottish fan who will agree with you on that.

England by 20ish.

Before Italy there was a lot of optimism north of the wall

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

I'm saying sweet FA.

Mr Scones, you have surpassed yourself here and won the weekly Empsonian Ambiguity Award (which may or may not be something meaningful).
Are you saying;
England will not win by any points (sweet FA, truly sweet),
You are not commenting upon/ predicting the margin of England's inevitable victory,
You just wanted to tell us you have nothing to say about anything at all.
However, in this last instance you have said you are saying nothing by saying something (sweet FA) therefore creating that shining new philosophical concept:

SCHROEDINGER'S GLASWEGIAN.
He says something but he's saying FA. He says FA but he's saying something.

I still think England by 40.

jimbopip wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

I'm saying sweet FA.

Mr Scones, you have surpassed yourself here and won the weekly Empsonian Ambiguity Award (which may or may not be something meaningful).
Are you saying;
England will not win by any points (sweet FA, truly sweet),
You are not commenting upon/ predicting the margin of England's inevitable victory,
You just wanted to tell us you have nothing to say about anything at all.
However, in this last instance you have said you are saying nothing by saying something (sweet FA) therefore creating that shining new philosophical concept:

SCHROEDINGER'S GLASWEGIAN.
He says something but he's saying FA. He says FA but he's saying something.

I still think England by 40.

I'd like to thank my parents, long suffering girlfriend, my boys for keeping me grounded but especially you....the fans, without which, this wouldn't have been possible.



What is it again?

I'm saying sweet FA with regards to predictions after my complete @rse up of a prediction against Italy. Unfortunately, I'm with Risky now in that I will no longer be expecting anything but utter disappointment, tears and frustration.

My trip to Murrayfield on the 21st will be nothing more than a chance to warm my hands in the toilet's hand dryer as per two years ago against Wales.



Scotland by 4.

The notion that England just have to turn up to win is a very dangerous one. I've no doubt that Scotland have improved from where they were - they may not have improved as much as some were suggesting, but there are not too many who are unfit to play international rugby as has often been the case in recent times.
The Scotland-Italy game showed that the Scottish pack is underpowered and you'd hope that England can exploit this. But, the England-Italy game showed "you have to earn the right to go wide" (sorry I dislike that phrase but you'll know what I mean), so they must be patient if the want to rack up the points.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Really question is by how many England will win by?

My prediction: 20 points.

I'm saying sweet FA.

Mr Scones, you have surpassed yourself here and won the weekly Empsonian Ambiguity Award (which may or may not be something meaningful).
Are you saying;
England will not win by any points (sweet FA, truly sweet),
You are not commenting upon/ predicting the margin of England's inevitable victory,
You just wanted to tell us you have nothing to say about anything at all.
However, in this last instance you have said you are saying nothing by saying something (sweet FA) therefore creating that shining new philosophical concept:

SCHROEDINGER'S GLASWEGIAN.
He says something but he's saying FA. He says FA but he's saying something.

I still think England by 40.

I'd like to thank my parents, long suffering girlfriend, my boys for keeping me grounded but especially you....the fans, without which, this wouldn't have been possible.



What is it again?

I'm saying sweet FA with regards to predictions after my complete @rse up of a prediction against Italy. Unfortunately, I'm with Risky now in that I will no longer be expecting anything but utter disappointment, tears and frustration.

My trip to Murrayfield on the 21st will be nothing more than a chance to warm my hands in the toilet's hand dryer as per two years ago against Wales.



Scotland by 4.

Against who? You've just told us we're going to get gubbed in the next two games and the say [b]Scotland by 4[/b You're just toying with us aren't you?

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:My trip to Murrayfield on the 21st will be nothing more than a chance to warm my hands in the toilet's hand dryer as per two years ago against Wales.

Scotland by 4.

Hand dryers have gone. We sold them to service the debts. You have to use your jeans to dry your hands or, if you're a Weegie, don't wash your hands at all.

We normally just pee into the empty pint glasses anyway.  

Problem solved

Weegie Wizard wrote:We normally just pee into the empty pint glasses anyway.  

Problem solved

That would explain why the 'lager' has such a high alcohol content then

Weegie Wizard wrote:We normally just pee into the empty pint glasses anyway.  

Problem solved

I think we've stumbled across the "brewing" method for Tennants....