Irish fans?

I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans. Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

I doubt whether many Irish fans would feel Neil Francis represents their view.... he's a muppet.

Haven't read the article but given the Lions series was won 2 years and BOD is retired I hadn't given it a second thought. There's always a bit of spice when Ireland play Wales under Gatland because of the history there, including the Lions, but I doubt anyone is thinking much about the Lions series on this side of the water given the GS is at stake and the RWC is coming up...I know I'm not.

Biggest problem with the final Lions test was that what Gatland picked was a team that did win. There is no proof that it was the only team that could have won

Is Neil Francis the Irish pundit who said gay people don't play sport?

Don't believe a word any Irish fan ever says. I know I never do. Not to be trusted. Charlatans, the lot of them.

I was lucky enough to go on the last Lions tour and in the interest of fairness trust me there were some idiot Welsh fans in Sydney that Saturday night as well.

We were in a great pub near the harbour and all the pub were singing whatever song was going around be it Swing Low, Bread of Heaven, Flower of Scotland Fields of Athenry etc etc and were having a great time.

There was however one group of Welsh fans who refused point blank to sing anything other than Welsh fans and insisted it was just Wales not the Lions, so me and a few of my mates (yes have a few) purposely stood next to them and belted out Jerusalem then everyone joined in much to their annoyance

Well they was Welsh muppets but I'm pretty sure there are English Scottish and IrIsh ones out there too

rodders wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

I doubt whether many Irish fans would feel Neil Francis represents their view.... he's a muppet.

Haven't read the article but given the Lions series was won 2 years and BOD is retired I hadn't given it a second thought. There's always a bit of spice when Ireland play Wales under Gatland because of the history there, including the Lions, but I doubt anyone is thinking much about the Lions series on this side of the water given the GS is at stake and the RWC is coming up...I know I'm not.

Agree with this.

Its in the past. BOD has gone.
Think we've moved on.
Just hoping for a win saturday. Thats the main thing.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was lucky enough to go on the last Lions tour and in the interest of fairness trust me there were some idiot Welsh fans in Sydney that Saturday night as well.

We were in a great pub near the harbour and all the pub were singing whatever song was going around be it Swing Low, Bread of Heaven, Flower of Scotland Fields of Athenry etc etc and were having a great time.

There was however one group of Welsh fans who refused point blank to sing anything other than Welsh fans and insisted it was just Wales not the Lions, so me and a few of my mates (yes have a few) purposely stood next to them and belted out Jerusalem then everyone joined in much to their annoyance

You had a sing-off? I love it.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Well they was Welsh muppets but I'm pretty sure there are English Scottish  and IrIsh ones out there too

We all have them jimmy some of us even may be them at times know I have been accused of worse

Neil Francis mainly represents himself- the prevailing view in Ireland is that he's an a$$hole/he's willing to just be 'controversial' to get attention and sell papers.

He's like an Irish version of Stephen Jones in the Times.

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

Vindicated what? Nearly everyone had a problem with Team Wales with a few guests playing in it.

Perhaps if he had started Sean O'Brien ahead of Warburton, the Test Series would not have gone down to the wire. As well as that, Paul O'Connell should have been Tour Captain - Warburton is a joke of a captain.

I take most of what Francis says with a grain of salt, but most of what he says is true in this article (if a little blunt).

The Welsh muppets I know rather argue about English football teams Liverpool and man United on facebook rather then the rugby

The Welsh equivalent of Francis is Steven Jones, who has unfortunately gone off my radar completely since the Times asked people to subscribe for his guff

He was funny...but not enough to pay for it.

Jones is a bit of an idiot but Francis is a whole new level of unpleasant.

Cyril wrote:Jones is a bit of an idiot but Francis is a whole new level of unpleasant.

No, Cyril, let's not be cuddlifying Jones in his advancing years. He knows/knew how to put the boot in too. But I find bootboys funny. They leave a lot of stuff to get your teeth into.

You read that article to the Welsh players ,that's pretty motivational , I think that's why gatland don't put his foot in his mouth anymore

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:The Welsh muppets I know rather argue about English football teams Liverpool and man United on facebook rather then the rugby

This has got to be a joke. Take a look at Irish media. Irish times, Irish sports news. They are ALL over the Premiership and it's top teams like a rash. The Man Utds, the Liverpools, the Arsenals etc.

Is the Welsh media fawning over those sides? Errrr no they're not - and we have a side in the Premiership!! It's not even as if Ireland is in the UK!!!

So if you want to throw those football stones, make sure you've got a net to catch some coming your own way.

Sin é wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

Vindicated what? Nearly everyone had a problem with Team Wales with a few guests playing in it.

Perhaps if he had started Sean O'Brien ahead of Warburton, the Test Series would not have gone down to the wire. As well as that, Paul O'Connell should have been Tour Captain - Warburton is a joke of a captain.

I take most of what Francis says with a grain of salt, but most of what he says is true in this article (if a little blunt).

ok so some people still hold this view. Whether or not people had a problem with it, the record win proved that it was a right decision. I'm not saying it was the only possible solution but it worked. Unless you've played with Warburton as your captain I'm not sure how you can possibly say he's a joke.

Cyril wrote:Jones is a bit of an idiot but Francis is a whole new level of unpleasant.

I'm not sure about that, in the past Jones has bordered on racism with his comments about Ireland.

It makes me cringe when I read that tube Francis because he must be perceived outside Ireland in the same way.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:The Welsh muppets I know rather argue about English football teams Liverpool and man United on facebook rather then the rugby

This has got to be a joke. Take a look at Irish media. Irish times, Irish sports news. They are ALL over the Premiership and it's top teams like a rash. The Man Utds, the Liverpools, the Arsenals etc.

Is the Welsh media fawning over those sides? Errrr no they're not - and we have a side in the Premiership!! It's not even as if Ireland is in the UK!!!

So if you want to throw those football stones, make sure you've got a net to catch some coming your own way.

...I think he's Welsh though?

Point still stands. Ireland has an obsession with Premiership football. That's a sport in another country. Yet they don't miss a chance to have a dig about "Da Brits" at any opportunity.

I shouldn't be surprised about the hypocrisy levels I suppose.

I do ever so much think that he might be.

But don't stop a nice rant, Notch. It's considered a delicacy in these parts

On the subject of that Lions Tour and Ire v Wales, I was pretty disgusted by Willie John McBryde's comments over the Lions "ethos". Suggesting that Gatland didn't pick what he thought was his best side was insulting and disappointing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23165900

Chunky Norwich wrote:Point still stands. Ireland has an obsession with Premiership football. That's a sport in another country. Yet they don't miss a chance to have a dig about "Da Brits" at any opportunity.

I shouldn't be surprised about the hypocrisy levels I suppose.

Hypocrisy indeed.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Point still stands. Ireland has an obsession with Premiership football. That's a sport in another country. Yet they don't miss a chance to have a dig about "Da Brits" at any opportunity.

I shouldn't be surprised about the hypocrisy levels I suppose.

Hypocrisy indeed.

Take, take, take, Not a give in sight. The Irish way.

Keep up the old 'dig' obsession with us Chunky. Good show.

Is Chunky the Welsh Neil Francis?

It's actually quite interesting to look at how the one story gets presented of course, and how Propaganda shifts tone and wording to suit its moods.

WALESONLINE heading:
Wales v Ireland Six Nations 2015: 'Warren Gatland has the intellectual properties of a tub of Flora... his Lions team selection was shameful nepotism'


IRISH INDEPENDENT heading (actual source material):
Neil Francis: Ireland are there for the taking - if Gatland gets strategy right and looks beyond 'Warrenball', Wales will win



And four paragraphs down in the Independent, there's the actual quote faithfully repeated:
"Ireland are there for the taking and if Gatland gets his strategy right, Wales will win."

But four paragraphs in on WalesOnline, Francis is still taunting and insulting:
"Francis maintains that Wales will lose to Six Nations champions Ireland if they play “one dimensional” Warrenball, insisting they must change tack to come out on top"

Maybe WalesOnline could have just printed Francis's actual article and let their readership make up their own minds about the 'emphasis'??  No............ that's not how you do motivation now, is it?

Francis, like Jones, is an @rse, who tends to spout nonsense for effect - click bait.

The article doesn't really start well by comparing Gatland to a tub of flora, even if there's a little truth in it, however, and having read the full article, it's really quite balanced. The Fail attempt to make as though Francis is having a go at Liam Williams. He isn't. In fact, Francis is quite complementary of Williams, and the Wales team. If anything he is having a go at Ireland!

As for Bodgate. It's ancient history, and not a topic that is at the forefront of Irish supporters discussion.

Munchkin wrote: If anything he is having a go at Ireland!

Yeah, I think both sides could legitimately use it as 'one for the wall' to get the grunt up before the game.

mckay1402 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

Vindicated what? Nearly everyone had a problem with Team Wales with a few guests playing in it.

Perhaps if he had started Sean O'Brien ahead of Warburton, the Test Series would not have gone down to the wire. As well as that, Paul O'Connell should have been Tour Captain - Warburton is a joke of a captain.

I take most of what Francis says with a grain of salt, but most of what he says is true in this article (if a little blunt).

ok so some people still hold this view.  Whether or not people had a problem with it, the record win proved that it was a right decision.  I'm not saying it was the only possible solution but it worked.  Unless you've played with Warburton as your captain I'm not sure how you can possibly say he's a joke.  

I had no problem that BOD was dropped, what bothered me was the miserably way Gatland did it - having BOD at the Pre Match press conference and let BOD think he was in the team. Then he didn't have the guts to tell BOD himself - he brought his henchman Howley with him. Tub of Flora is just about right for him.

Gerald Davies is waxing lyrically about how Paul O'Connell got the Lions team together in Australia (no, not the SA). Warburton perform Gatland lapdog duties admirably. Only for Warburton getting injured, SOB might not have started the third Test and AWJ might not have been captain. Gats hasn't the guts to make AWJ Wales captain because he knows he would challenge him. It was interesting to see POC performing the captains role by laying into the squad on the video in the early days of the tour for not looking out for Owen Farrell and making his job easier. Then Gats wouldn't start the form scrum half with his international out half partner - Gats trying to squeeze as many out of form Welsh players into the line out against a team that was a complete shambles.

Sin é wrote:

I had no problem that BOD was dropped, what bothered me was the miserably way Gatland did it - having BOD at the Pre Match press conference and let BOD think he was in the team. Then he didn't have the guts to tell BOD himself - he brought his henchman Howley with him. Tub of Flora is just about right for him.

Gerald Davies is waxing lyrically about how Paul O'Connell got the Lions team together in Australia (no, not the SA). Warburton perform Gatland lapdog duties admirably. Only for Warburton getting injured, SOB might not have started the third Test and AWJ might not have been captain. Gats hasn't the guts to make AWJ Wales captain because he knows he would challenge him. It was interesting to see POC performing the captains role by laying into the squad on the video in the early days of the tour for not looking out for Owen Farrell and making his job easier. Then Gats wouldn't start the form scrum half with his international out half partner - Gats trying to squeeze as many out of form Welsh players into the line out against a team that was a complete shambles.

You actually believe that don't you.

Do you think Gatland was

a) Trying to shoehorn players into the squad because they were Welsh?
b) Trying to do whatever he could, to win a Lions series?
c) both

?

d) Clueless. The team won despite Gatland rather than because of him.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I had no problem that BOD was dropped, what bothered me was the miserably way Gatland did it - having BOD at the Pre Match press conference and let BOD think he was in the team. Then he didn't have the guts to tell BOD himself - he brought his henchman Howley with him. Tub of Flora is just about right for him.

Gerald Davies is waxing lyrically about how Paul O'Connell got the Lions team together in Australia (no, not the SA). Warburton perform Gatland lapdog duties admirably. Only for Warburton getting injured, SOB might not have started the third Test and AWJ might not have been captain. Gats hasn't the guts to make AWJ Wales captain because he knows he would challenge him. It was interesting to see POC performing the captains role by laying into the squad on the video in the early days of the tour for not looking out for Owen Farrell and making his job easier. Then Gats wouldn't start the form scrum half with his international out half partner - Gats trying to squeeze as many out of form Welsh players into the line out against a team that was a complete shambles.

You actually believe that don't you.

Do you think Gatland was

a) Trying to shoehorn players into the squad because they were Welsh?
b) Trying to do whatever he could, to win a Lions series?
c) both

?

I think he shoehorned* as many Welsh players into the squad as possible to give the Welsh team belief that they could actually beat a SH side.

*shoehorned isn't the correct word as he has obviously built his own Welsh team. I'd say it was more plug a few holes with players like Sexton. That Lions Squad should have wiped the floor with that Australian team.

So you actually think that Gatland was trying to further his own motives. To further the belief of Wales players. To give a new found confidence that would impact on the Welsh setup.

You don't think that he cared one jot, about adding "Coach of a Lions test winning series team" to his own CV?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Do you think Gatland was

a) Trying to shoehorn players into the squad because they were Welsh?
b) Trying to do whatever he could, to win a Lions series?
c) both

c) both

Killing two birds with one stone.  Using the Lions extras as padding to help his boys learn how to beat Australia with an eye on the very thing that's approaching fast - that World Cup Pool.

Now question for you, Chunky.

Gatland was

a) Fully intent on giving his Welsh players as much exposure as possible to the players they might be hoping to meet in the 2015 WC
b) Gave it some thought but more so simply felt his Welsh players were better than the other Lions alternatives
c) Never remotely thought about Wales or the 2015 WC in all the time he was there down under with the Lions.

Chunky Norwich wrote:So you actually think that Gatland was trying to further his own motives. To further the belief of Wales players. To give a new found confidence that would impact on the Welsh setup.

You don't think that he cared one jot, about adding "Coach of a Lions test winning series team" to his own CV?

I'd say he was hoping that the Sextons,BODs & POCs etc. would pull him over the line anyway. It was very laboured though.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Do you think Gatland was

a) Trying to shoehorn players into the squad because they were Welsh?
b) Trying to do whatever he could, to win a Lions series?
c) both

c) both

Killing two birds with one stone.  Using the Lions extras as padding to help his boys learn how to beat Australia with an eye on the very thing that's approaching fast - that World Cup Pool.

So Gatland did whatever he could do to win a  Lions series. Job done. Good enough for me. (You'll note that I am no Gatland fan by the way)

Gatland was

a) Fully intent on giving his Welsh players as much exposure as possible to the players they might be hoping to meet in the 2015 WC
b) Gave it some thought but more so simply felt his Welsh players were better than the other Lions alternatives
c) Never remotely thought about Wales or the 2015 WC in all the time he was there down under with the Lions.

a) is complete rubbish. Were Samson Lee, Ken Owens, Rob Evans, Jake Ball, Rhys Webb, Dan Biggar and Liam Williams involved in the Lions test series?
b) is about right.
c) Possibly but we wouldn't know to what extent.

mckay1402 wrote:Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

I think several of the comments on this article would suggest that some (not all) still need a bit of time to process it

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:So you actually think that Gatland was trying to further his own motives. To further the belief of Wales players. To give a new found confidence that would impact on the Welsh setup.

You don't think that he cared one jot, about adding "Coach of a Lions test winning series team" to his own CV?

I'd say he was hoping that the Sextons,BODs & POCs etc. would pull him over the line anyway. It was very laboured though.

You are very naive in that case. Gatland wanted more than anything to win the series. The fact that more Wales players helped him do this is just a bi - product of winning.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:So you actually think that Gatland was trying to further his own motives. To further the belief of Wales players. To give a new found confidence that would impact on the Welsh setup.

You don't think that he cared one jot, about adding "Coach of a Lions test winning series team" to his own CV?

I'd say he was hoping that the Sextons,BODs & POCs etc. would pull him over the line anyway. It was very laboured though.

You are very naive in that case. Gatland wanted more than anything to win the series. The fact that more Wales players helped him do this is just a bi - product of winning.

To build up the confidence of the Welsh players that they could beat a SH side, they needed to win the Lions Tour - those two objectives are not mutually exclusive.

...if b) is "about right" that seems to suggest the English and Irish contingents hadn't it in them to beat the Aussies.  
Truth was different.  
Thus - Gatland wanted His National players to join the club of 'Home' Nation players who did have experience of beating them already.  His players needed it.  He didn't care what the world thought - no apologies for putting his lads up to the bulk of the task.

Cyril wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

I think several of the comments on this article would suggest that some (not all) still need a bit of time to process it

the answer is still c) both

What's your answer Cyril?

SecretFly wrote:...if b) is "about right" that seems to suggest the English and Irish contingents hadn't it in them to beat the Aussies.  

Truth was different.  

How is the truth was different?

Thus - Gatland wanted His National players to join the club of 'Home' Nation players who did have experience of beating them already.  His players needed it.  He didn't care what the world thought - no apologies for putting his lads up to the bulk of the task.

Nonsense. The notion that he selected his mates for future Wales experience instead of solely wanting a Lions series win is ludicrous.

Ronan O'Gara after match analysis of Wales v England:

''Warren Gatland, I think, brainwashes them into thinking that they’ll run over teams, they’re physically more dominant and fitter than teams.

“But as Mike Phillips keeps reminding me, if they’re playing South Africa or New Zealand; you can’t really say that to players. At this stage, I think they need to tweak something. It’s not good enough anymore.''

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Nonsense. The notion that he selected his mates for future Wales experience instead of solely wanting a Lions series win is ludicrous.

No it isn't ludicrous. It's very much something you don't want to hear, but it's not ludicrous.

mckay1402 wrote:I just wondered whether Neil Francis represents the views of most Irish fans.  Given that the Lions series was almost 2 years ago and the final match result kind of vindicated his decision do Ireland fans still feel bitter about it?  

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8824442

No bitterness at all, we know Joe will lead the Lions to a clean sweep in NZ in 2017 with a team filled with Irish players and no Sam Warburton in sight and balance shall be restored

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Nonsense. The notion that he selected his mates for future Wales experience instead of solely wanting a Lions series win is ludicrous.

No it isn't ludicrous. It's very much something you don't want to hear, but it's not ludicrous.

Ludicrous.

Personally it's all water under the bridge now, other than the media keeping it going as clickbait, BOD was treated pretty shabilly but the Lions won so Gatland got the shout right (other shouts were available).
As to the "he picked Welsh players to give them experience of beating Australia" theory, we'll see how that holds up in the Autumn.