Silly season transfer rumours (continued)....

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Continuation of the previous thread from the esteemed Mister GeordieFalcon:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours

I presume the player aspect of Parr's contract will be RWC cover and from then on he'll be a strength and conditioning coach and help with the academy scrum coaching as well.

Another uninspiring signing from Tigers, what's going at Welford?!?!

Ben Franks is predominantly a LH isn't he SirBurger?

I was under the assumption that Owen was a TH and Ben was a LH who could fill in on the other side but rarely has since two props on the bench became mandatory.

Ben has played mostly at TH this season but is a better LH imo

Most of us think he is better at LH but he started all of his Rugby for the Hurricanes this season in the 3 shirt. Chris Egerton (BBC Berkshire journalist) also stated that Franks had been guaranteed the tight head slot.

Quite surprising if so, I'm not sure he'll be as big as a success as an AP TH. He seems steady as S15 TH (which isn't the strongest scrummaging league). He's certainly Int quality at LH

Apologies I wasn't aware he had made the move to TH. Beyond catching the odd game on Sky when it fits I haven't fitted much Super Rugby in this year unfortunately.

It certainly seems an odd decision given he has shown himself to be a very adept LH at international level. 35 of his 41 caps may have been off the bench but even so you don't make that many appearances for the All Blacks in a relatively short space of time unless you're a very good player.

I mean I could be wrong. I certainly hope he plays at loosehead. I imagine, in actuality, he will end up covering both. His versatility is definitely a big part of the reason we signed him.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Another uninspiring signing from Tigers, what's going at Welford?!?!

I would guess steady old head to cover while our first 2 choices(Ayerza & Mulipolo) LH at WC to supplement our youngsters who came through the academy

broadlandboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Another uninspiring signing from Tigers, what's going at Welford?!?!

I would guess steady old head to cover while our first 2 choices(Ayerza & Mulipolo) LH at WC to supplement our youngsters who came through the academy

Rizzo and Sio are in their respective nations wider training squads. Whilst Sio is unlikely to make the squad, Rizzo is 50/50. We could potentially be well down on props. He covers for the short term and then continues as a coach.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Another uninspiring signing from Tigers, what's going at Welford?!?!

Such a narrow minded post IMO.

Signed as a player coach won't take much cap. Has plenty of coaching experience.

Ayerza, Mulipola and maybe Rizzo in the world potential for one to get injured maybe.

We have Brugnara and Sio but we will need an experienced front rower still about what with the likes of Cole, Youngs and Leo in the World Cup. And that's if Sio isn't with Samoa.

Signings have been very good this season IMO.

Pack is younger, bigger and more flexible.

Bateman for Briggs (Bateman is a more stable scrummager can play TH as well)
Fitzgerald for Parling (Parling will be hard to replace but Kitchener is already pushing his spot and Fitzgerald is looks like the enforcer lock we have needed to cover for Slater)
Barrow for Thorn (Barrow is 22 with plenty of AP experience mobile and agressive will be one to watch)
Williams for Deacon (Only 23 plays 6 as well as lock, looks very good).
McCaffrey for Gibson (Shame Gibson going but Gibson wasn't a top name when he came McCaffrey has looked decent this season plays all across the back row and is a solid unit)
Fonua for Barbieri (IF he can get really fit then he could be a game changer for our pack carrying outside Logo)
Kitto for Mele (will be cheaper NZ U20 SH and seems to be rated by chiefs and BoP enough to be considered by them Mauger and Hanson both know him very well).
Bethan for Scully (love Scully but Betham adds that pace our backs need he is big and quick but also a good footballer).

Really we just need a 12 and IMO our squad is fine.

Even then Manu @ 12 and Tait @ 13 is an interesting idea.

Also have plenty of Academy backs looking promising and some with genuine pace and Mauger will hopefully be looking at them.

Yea, I think Leicester have recruited well. The depth you guys now have is very impressive. A lot will depend on how Fonua goes and who you bring in at 12, otherwise I think the starting line-up isn't much better on last season's.

SirBurger wrote:Most of us think he is better at LH but he started all of his Rugby for the Hurricanes this season in the 3 shirt. Chris Egerton (BBC Berkshire journalist) also stated that Franks had been guaranteed the tight head slot.

Tom court said on rugby tonight that he was looking forward to the arrival of ben franks to enable him to have a break and share the duties.
this would suggest that ben will play at loose head prop and I am more than happy with those two in that position.

I'm sorry if you think I'm narrow minded but the only player that is better than their predecessor in that list is Fonua imo and he played for the worst side in the AP.

So much talk of top players coming in (Dusatoir, Alberts, Albacete etc), yet none of these players are anything close to this.

I'm not looking for an argument, I just though Tigers would be looking to add real quality after a pretty poor year by your own high standards. Surely you can't be overjoyed with the recruitment?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm sorry if you think I'm narrow minded but the only player that is better than their predecessor in that list is Fonua imo and he played for the worst side in the AP.

So much talk of top players coming in (Dusatoir, Alberts, Albacete etc), yet none of these players are anything close to this.

I'm not looking for an argument, I just though Tigers would be looking to add real quality after a pretty poor year by your own high standards. Surely you can't be overjoyed with the recruitment?

We were in the market and discussions for a few top players from what I've heard but couldn't find the right player for the right price to fill the second marquee spot. Obviously I'd have loved it if we had added a name such as Kaino or Le Roux to the rest of our signings but given it didn't come off I'd rather Cohen and co save the money for next season rather than blow it on a 'big name' signing who isn't worth the cash.

We are still another 12 away from me being really happy with our recruitment following Allens retirement.

However the rest of the signings I am very pleased with. We have addressed the lack of raw bulk and power with the options of Fonau and Williams, plus Pearce progressing very nicely. As Welly says the pack has also got younger and more flexible.

Salvi is a huge loss but O'Connor is coming in with a good reputation and he looks a player who could flourish in our environment.

Parling is a player I rate very highly but bottom line is that he has had a fair few injuries and isn't getting any younger. Kitchener has all the attributes to overtake him for Tigers and England over this coming season and Fitzgerald looks a real coup.

If Slater, Croft, Manu and Camacho can get/stay fit they will basically feel like new signings after this season!

If you asked most fans for their full strength line-up for next year it would look something like below:

1.Ayerza/Mulipola
2.Youngs/Ghirildini
3.Cole/Balmain
4.Slater
5.Kitchener or Fitzgerald
6.Croft or Williams
7.O'Connor
8.Fonau

9.Youngs
10.Williams or Burns

11.Betham
12.Tuilagi
13.Tait
14.Goneva or Thompstone
15.Morris

Honestly without a top class 12 coming in (or a 15 if we moved Tait to centre permanently) I don't think the end result of our season will be hugely different. A ERCC quarter final is much more attainable with our pool this season however.

The performances however should be much more consistent, rounded and improving throughout the season as new players and coaches settle in. Our attack this season has been abysmal and Mauger coming in should hopefully aid this. It is also an opportunity to bring some younger players such as Thacker through more.

Very fair assessment KC but that team on paper looks weaker than last to me, just an opinion though.

Tait at 13 is not something that should be tried again I don't think, I seen him play there for Sale and he wasn't impressive. I think that midfield would struggle defensivley in the AP.

Whilst the tigers haven't signed huge names...I think they've been quite shrewd with some signings.
And they've added some serious bulk and power to their squad.

Even the likes of Barrow. IF they can get him injury free then they've have signed a cracker. A huge guy who is mobile similar to Kitchener I guess.

Yes, I agree - I think that Tigers have recruited well and I'd put money on their aggregate squad quality now being higher than last year.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Very fair assessment KC but that team on paper looks weaker than last to me, just an opinion though.

Tait at 13 is not something that should be tried again I don't think, I seen him play there for Sale and he wasn't impressive. I think that midfield would struggle defensivley in the AP.

TBF Tait was the best back for us last season whilst he was playing @ 13.

Would say our forward pack looks a lot more balanced whilst Parling is fantastic a team of Parling, Croft and Crane was a bit lightweight in terms of grunt. This one has a lot more grunt to go with the likes of Kitchener and O'Connor.

Re previous comment about being narrow minded that was about Parr his signing is as much as it is coaching as it is a player so to use his signing to say Leicester have lacklustre signings is a bit narrow minded.

I did say another Welly as in the other signings haven't been great either. All opinions, time will tell I guess.

I think the new signings offer more options than before. For instance at 6 it was Croft or Gibson so it was a case of more mobility and skill or more nous at the breakdown. Where as now it's Croft or Williams so it's mobility and skill or powerful tackling machine. Same at 8 where we can go pick work rate with Crane or big ball carrying yards with Fonua.

Re the additional back signing I'd still rather see us integrate the youngsters more. We have Bai, Loamano and Manu all capable of playing 12 but Roberts bringing pace and power then Bryant quick feet and the additional play maker. Catchpole developed well last season so using him more at 13 would be good as he has pace and a nice outside break.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think the new signings offer more options than before. For instance at 6 it was Croft or Gibson so it was a case of more mobility and skill or more nous at the breakdown. Where as now it's Croft or Williams so it's mobility and skill or powerful tackling machine. Same at 8 where we can go pick work rate with Crane or big ball carrying yards with Fonua.

Re the additional back signing I'd still rather see us integrate the youngsters more. We have Bai, Loamano and Manu all capable of playing 12 but Roberts bringing pace and power then Bryant quick feet and the additional play maker. Catchpole developed well last season so using him more at 13 would be good as he has pace and a nice outside break.

That's assuming he will get a run of time being fit. His recent track record would not suggest that.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think the new signings offer more options than before. For instance at 6 it was Croft or Gibson so it was a case of more mobility and skill or more nous at the breakdown. Where as now it's Croft or Williams so it's mobility and skill or powerful tackling machine. Same at 8 where we can go pick work rate with Crane or big ball carrying yards with Fonua.

Re the additional back signing I'd still rather see us integrate the youngsters more. We have Bai, Loamano and Manu all capable of playing 12 but Roberts bringing pace and power then Bryant quick feet and the additional play maker. Catchpole developed well last season so using him more at 13 would be good as he has pace and a nice outside break.

That's assuming he will get a run of time being fit. His recent track record would not suggest that.

Sadly true but its different bits getting injured each time so he has a better chance than many of getting an injury free run

I hope so, he's a cracking player.

Hopefully we'll be using horses for the courses and the rotation of Williams and Croft will see Croft's fitness resurgence. Certainly the big hitting Williams will offer a very different style to Croft.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Re the additional back signing I'd still rather see us integrate the youngsters more. We have Bai, Loamano and Manu all capable of playing 12 but Roberts bringing pace and power then Bryant quick feet and the additional play maker. Catchpole developed well last season so using him more at 13 would be good as he has pace and a nice outside break.

By wanting another 12 or 15 to feel our recruitment was the complete package I was meaning a big marquee coup. I know they were never likely to come off but I'm thinking cloud cuckoo land where the Le Roux/Dagg rumours came true. Or a pick up such as Saili being tempted following the Baabaas game at WR - although for a more reasonable price than Munster forked out.

In the absence of this I'd agree with you on promoting from within. Until we see whether they are planning to utilise Tait back at 13 and Manu at 12 it's hard to tell what the pecking order will be. Either way though if Oliver signs I'd like to see him and Bai used mainly for cover if we have injuries or for a big game if we feel others aren't taking their chances. Or that they simply may not be ready.

Throwing two guys such as Roberts and Catchpole into a Prem game at the same time isn't a fair way to view their capabilities. However giving them a chance alongside a more experienced back-line with first choice players fit is a different story. I would be very happy to see partnerships such as below given a chance behind a near full strength pack.

12.Tuilagi
13.Catchpole

12.Roberts or Bryant
13.Manu or Tait

Rotation such as this will allow us to get a better look at younger players, select horses for courses as you say and also keep our squad fitter and fresher for the key stages of the season.

Agree on all of that. Youngsters are far more likely to flourish in a settled back line with experienced international players around them. With Loamano, Bai and Manu we've got three big hitting fort team centres for them to work with and Tait is also an option.

I'm hoping Mauger can advance Bryant the way he advanced Twelvetrees back in 2009 because he looks to be the creative centre we want alongside Manu.

Oliver looks less likely as he hasn't joined up for pre season and he's still in SA by all accounts. Given the issues the Bok teams faced in the Super 15 last season he probably has a few offers.

Agreed on Byrant. I had wondered from the brief stuff I'd seen of him whether he had the kicking game to be a top 10. As a 12 offering more creativity alongside some big units such as Manu, Goneva, Thompstone or Betham he could flourish however.

Oliver was a case of I could take him or leave him so I wouldn't be concerned if that's the case. He could have worked well as one year stop gap to provide some experience for big games following Allens retirement and to allay fears of another centre crisis such as this year. He could also have blocked the way of younger players though.

It's interesting to see that Bai isn't included in the Fiji squad for their game against the Moari ABs. I'd be surprised if they didn't want a player of his experience for a world cup campaign.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Very fair assessment KC but that team on paper looks weaker than last to me, just an opinion though.

Full strength this season - although we didn't really get to see it.

1.Ayerza 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Slater 5.Parling 6.Croft 7.Salvi 8.Crane
9.Youngs 10.Williams/Burns 11.Thompstone/Goneva 12.Allen 13.Tuilagi 14.Morris/Scully 15.Tait

Possible (or hoped) full strength next season.

1.Ayerza 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Slater 5.Kitchener 6.Croft 7.O'Connor 8.Fonau
9.Youngs 10.Williams/Burns 11.Betham 12.Tuilagi 13.Tait 14.Thompstone/Goneva 15.Morris

As would always be the case with a lot of new signings, much will depend on how they settle in. O'Connor especially has huge shoes to fill.

We still have the same front row depth with Mulipola, Ghirildini and Balmain on the bench plus Rizzo, another international, in reserve.

Parling is a loss but Kitchener is already one of the top locks in the Prem and still improving. Plus Fitzgerald and Barrow are exciting signings.

Betham adds some raw pace that many have felt we were missing. Although it is a shame to see Scully go. A player with that much skill and heart was invaluable in wet and windy aerial battles.

Fonau at 8 could give that extra power against the top teams. Plus we have the horses for courses option of Williams as a bruising blind-side to challenge Croft.

With the players coming and going plus a new head coach it will likely seem a completely different side.

I think Bai will be in camp as a but if a mentor not sure Fiji will opt to take him to the RWC though he may well be first on the backs reserve list. At 12 they'll have Naldolo with Niki at OC then it's a case of them finding a ten which is I guess where they'll want Bai to mentor a bit.

Anyone know why Mooj returned to the Jeff in Sale colours rather than Northampton green?

They've signed up Brookes and Hill already George, possibly to stay within the cap?

Just urined off that Glasgow missed him - we have a big hole at tighthead with Euan Murray and Jon Welsh both leaving.

George,

Was JOn Welsh pure and simply a TH with you guys. There seems a bit of confusion what he is having joined us. That he used to play LH but Switched. Can he play both sides equally well? Or is he better at one side.

Sale have lost a couple of experienced locks plus were under the cap anyway so had budget for a starting class tight head.

GeordieFalcon wrote:George,

Was JOn Welsh pure and simply a TH with you guys. There seems a bit of confusion what he is having joined us. That he used to play LH but Switched. Can he play both sides equally well? Or is he better at one side.

Depends whom you ask Geordie.

He started off at 1 and looked very good there. Then he switched for about 8 matches. I thought for a full season that he was Scotland's first choice at 3 (better than Euan Murray) but he was moved around a lot and eventually it was confusing to even hardcore soapdodger fans such as myself what his true position was. He can play both sides and is strong at both. Jim Telfer is a massive fan of his.

We have more need for cover at 3, so that's where he should stay for Scotland purposes, but I understand that's not where Deano intends to play him. He will need to be coming back to his best form to usurp any member of the Edinburgh front row (Dickinson or Nel) from a Scotland starting berth. He should thrive at the Toon, I would think.

George Carlin wrote:Anyone know why Mooj returned to the Jeff in Sale colours rather than Northampton green?

Sale ain't afraid of flashing the cash either

Not sure if this means he'll be leaving Leinster but Kane Douglas has been added to the Australia squad despite only having 14 caps..

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/13211180/wallabies-make-approach-leinster-douglas

George Carlin wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:George,

Was JOn Welsh pure and simply a TH with you guys. There seems a bit of confusion what he is having joined us. That he used to play LH but Switched. Can he play both sides equally well? Or is he better at one side.

Depends whom you ask Geordie.

He started off at 1 and looked very good there. Then he switched for about 8 matches. I thought for a full season that he was Scotland's first choice at 3 (better than Euan Murray) but he was moved around a lot and eventually it was confusing to even hardcore soapdodger fans such as myself what his true position was. He can play both sides and is strong at both. Jim Telfer is a massive fan of his.

We have more need for cover at 3, so that's where he should stay for Scotland purposes, but I understand that's not where Deano intends to play him. He will need to be coming back to his best form to usurp any member of the Edinburgh front row (Dickinson or Nel) from a Scotland starting berth. He should thrive at the Toon, I would think.

Im really not sure where Dean wants to play him. I think he could float if as you say he is equally good in both spots.
But if we don't sign Tomaschyk on another one year deal then I think he will be predominantly TH.

Vea and Welsh sharing the duties with Scott Wilson still coming through.
We have 4 LH's - Harris just signed from Leeds and a cracking prospect, Vickers the old timer, Eric Fry the American, and Alex Rogers.
Harris is quality, Vickers is solid but the other two are lacking.

Mujati has lost a lot of weight since he left the Prem and is now very light for a Prop. I wonder if he will be the same force as he used to be...

Steve Diamond resurrected the career of Cipriani. He's overseen the emergence of an entire front row from the academy that have all had Saxons representation or higher. Could be a good if unglamorous move for Mujati. At 30 he should be at his peak not tailing off.

Crusaders starting the rebuild by signing three play makers. Marty McKenzie, Ben Volavola and Richie Mo’unga are the three charged with the unenviable task of replacing Carter, Slade and Taylor. McKenzie the versatile NZ Maori comes from the Chiefs whilst Fijian international Volavola from the Tahs having made just eight appearances in two years. Sucks to be a saders fan at the minute.

The Hurricanes have signed Pita Ahki on the back of Nonu, Smith and Lee-Lo all heading North. The 22 year old likely to be partnered with Proctor the quick stepping centre/wing apparently.

Rory Clegg and Noah Cato have,been released.

Rumours about Clegg going north to Glasgow...

I wouldn't be surprised if Cato didn't have a go at getting into the England Sevens team ahead of Rio. It's that or Championship rugby for him.

Kane Douglas looking to be released from his Leinster contract so he can be selected for the world cup. Hasn't exactly set the world alight up here.

We have signed Paddy Ryan (TH Prop) brother of the appallingly bad Tim Ryan who we had a few years back.

Hopefully he's better than his brother.

We could always get Tim back and go:

1. Eric Fry
3. Tim Ryan

That's a horrible thought Sgt....please don't scare me like that again....

Jamie Hagan and Tony Ryan signed up for short term contracts at Leinster.

How did Hagan get on at Irish? Looked decent before going over.

Wonder does his signing indicate Leinster think Furlong will make the RWC

Golden wrote:Jamie Hagan and Tony Ryan signed up for short term contracts at Leinster.

How did Hagan get on at Irish? Looked decent before going over.

Wonder does his signing indicate Leinster think Furlong will make the RWC

Never really worked out for Hagan. Not sure if he came with a pre existing injury or not, but he always seemed to be a weak link scrum wise. Better in the loose, but I doubt he really featured too much in plans for this season.

Good luck to the bloke though, as he was obviously showing some form to get some international recognition in the first place.