Pro12 Semi 2 - Munster Rugby v Ospreys, 23 May

                              
Munster Rugby v Ospreys
Saturday 23 May 2015
KO: 14:30
Thomond Park, Limerick

Live on Sky Sports / TG4 / S4C

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 126th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Leighton Hodges, Ian Davies (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: TBC (SRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

26 Played 26
11 Wins 14
14 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
41 Tries 42
30 Conversions 29
58 Penalties 70
1 Drop Goals 3
442 Points 487
27 Avg. Age 24

B. Head to Head - Recently

Sat 7 March 2015 - Ospreys 26 - 12 Munster Rugby

Sat 27 Sept 2014 - Munster Rugby 14 - 19 Ospreys

Sun 23 Feb 2014 - Ospreys 11 - 25 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov 2013 - Munster Rugby 12 - 6 Ospreys

C. Run-In

Munster Rugby

16/05/15 - Munster 50 - 27 Dragons

09/05/15 - Ulster 23 - 23 Munster

25/04/15 - Munster 30 - 19 Treviso

Ospreys

16/5/15 - Connacht 20 - 24 Ospreys

08/05/15 - Ospreys 21 - 10 Glasgow

25/04/15 - Blues 23 - 31 Ospreys

D. Teams

Munster Rugby

[tbc]

Ospreys

[tbc]

I am happy to accommodate alternative suggestions for team reps if anybody would care to make them.

How about Bonnie Tyler for the Ospreys, and someone from Munster similarly rough, who enjoys the fags and booze, and sings some lovely rock ballads?! My knowledge of Irish rock isn't great to be honest...

Hmm. Sinead O'Connor is from Glenageary unfortunately. And our Irish posters get very upset at inter-provincial pollution like that so I'm not going to risk putting her up.

I am also trying hard to avoid the conclusion that Cork and Limerick may not be fertile hunting ground for scouts from major modelling agencies.

How about Yvonne De Carlo?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/55/23/7c55237ef638dc69de3de05036a66a96.jpg

I tried her a while back Rumpel.  I think she was rejected as a Smartass entry...

"a smartass entry", secretfly? ooer missus.

(there I go again, smartassing. I irritate myself, sometimes)

George Carlin wrote:I am happy to accommodate alternative suggestions for team reps if anybody would care to make them.

Absolutely no problems with that, 2 of the greatest 2nd row facing each other is a mouth watering prospect

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:How about Yvonne De Carlo?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/55/23/7c55237ef638dc69de3de05036a66a96.jpg

Jesus. I was at work when I opened that. 

Sorry, GC. I am an embarrassment to myself.

Good to know that youre allowed to mod this forum when you're at work though.

Griff wrote:How about Bonnie Tyler for the Ospreys, and someone from Munster similarly rough, who enjoys the fags and booze, and sings some lovely rock ballads?! My knowledge of Irish rock isn't great to be honest...

Dolores O'Riordan might fit the bill....


"O'Riordan is noted for her lilting mezzo-soprano voice and a strong Limerick accent." That's almost Paul O'Connell-like....

If Ospreys were going to get an away semi, then this is the one I would have preferred. I think Ulster and Glasgow are too good at home, but Ospreys have already beaten Munster twice this season, it will be interesting to say the least.

LordDowlais wrote:If Ospreys were going to get an away semi, then this is the one I would have preferred. I think Ulster and Glasgow are too good at home, but Ospreys have already beaten Munster twice this season, it will be interesting to say the least.

Even though they have beaten them twice this season, for knockout rugby Thomond Park is one of the last places a team would want to go for knockout rugby

LordDowlais wrote:If Ospreys were going to get an away semi, then this is the one I would have preferred. I think Ulster and Glasgow are too good at home, but Ospreys have already beaten Munster twice this season, it will be interesting to say the least.

??

Munster right now look the most on-the-boil side. No Europe to chase...... All energies into Pro12 and looking for Ireland places.
Ospreys are a good side and could well do it of course but to say Munster will be less a force in Thomond than Ulster and Glasgow at home is dangerous talk.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:If Ospreys were going to get an away semi, then this is the one I would have preferred. I think Ulster and Glasgow are too good at home, but Ospreys have already beaten Munster twice this season, it will be interesting to say the least.

??

Munster right now look the most on-the-boil side.  No Europe to chase...... All energies into Pro12 and looking for Ireland places.
Ospreys are a good side and could well do it of course but to say Munster will be less a force in Thomond than Ulster and Glasgow at home is dangerous talk.

I am just going by form SF, neither Ulster or Glasgow have lost at home this season. Well I cannot remember any of them losing at home anyway.

Form is what I'm going on too, Lord. Right now in the present (the only form that matters) Munster look to be ratcheting up potency.

SecretFly wrote:Form is what I'm going on too, Lord.  Right now in the present (the only form that matters) Munster look to be ratcheting up potency.

Anyway,it will be a ding dong of a match none the less.

Sounds like Zebo and POM will be fit for the weekend.

edit: either Una Healy (Foden) or Delores O'Riordan would be good choices.

Munster looking good at the minuet but aren't Ospreys a bit of a bogey team, or did I make that up?

rodders wrote:Munster looking good at the minuet but aren't Ospreys a bit of a bogey team, or did I make that up?

If there is one team that knows how to go to Ireland and get a result it is Ospreys, they have done it before, but can they do it again ? That is the question, players like, AWJ, Tuperic, Biggar, Webb, Lydiate will all have to be on top form to win, they could, but I think it will be close.

rodders wrote:Munster looking good at the minuet but aren't Ospreys a bit of a bogey team, or did I make that up?

Not really. Always a tough game. (Ospreys are Leinster's bogey team).

History: Wins
Munster 15/Ospreys 14, (1 draw).

But Os have beaten Munster twice this season, haven't they?

They must have figured out what the correct gameplan is, in that case?

George Carlin wrote:But Os have beaten Munster twice this season, haven't they?

They must have figured out what the correct gameplan is, in that case?

I think Munster beat them twice the year before ... six one, half a dozen of the other....

Let's not forget in certain years Munster were distracted by the niggly, knobbly and nuisance Pro12 (Lord 'ill love that! ) and often had Europe looking at them out the other side of their tunnel vision.

So that's a factor too. Trying like poor Saracens to fight on so many fronts that the auld strength in depth can become shallow.

SecretFly wrote:Trying like poor Saracens to fight on so many fronts that the auld strength in depth can become shallow.

Not for the Irish teams it isn't, not with your strength in depth.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Trying like poor Saracens to fight on so many fronts that the auld strength in depth can become shallow.

Not for the Irish teams it isn't, not with your strength in depth.

All the Welsh clubs, Lord?  All the Welsh watching rugby on TV?  Biggest sport in Wales?  Most participation? Deep deep history and a proud one? 

Didn't you give me a lot of that a while back in another debate?  So I always wonder what Strength in Depth means?  How come Welsh Regions allegedly never had it to the extent that Ireland allegedly had?  

I'll tell you, I've observed rugby a long long time - and Pro12 in all its forms - and Welsh players (famous and not famous). There is no way you'll tell me Welsh Regions had no depth of talent.  Virtually every Welsh player I see has a innate fast brain and athletic awareness of what best rugby requires to compete.  I don't buy it that Welsh rugby was behind Ireland in Depth.  But I've always said that in coaching the Regions have probably been let down most over the years.

It is a case of us not being able to:-

A. Keep hold of our best players
B. Afford to have the squads the size of the Irish.

Both coming down to money. Tell me SF, would you support a Pro12 salary cap, one that was not out of reach of the other teams playing in the league ?

Ospreys have a squad of 45. Bigger than most Premiership squads. (Munster have 46).

Sin é wrote:Ospreys have a squad of 45. Bigger than most Premiership squads. (Munster have 46).

But they also do not have highly paid southern hemisphere players either.

LordDowlais wrote:It is a case of us not being able to:-

A. Keep hold of our best players
B. Afford to have the squads the size of the Irish.

Both coming down to money. Tell me SF, would you support a Pro12 salary cap, one that was not out of reach of the other teams playing in the league ?

I was going to do what Sin did...but Sin did it.

Quins, - know him? - he also tried to say Irish squads were 'smaller' than most English ones and therefore Irish sides could obviously give more to each player to hold onto them.  Whereas, because the English club squads were SO much bigger, they had to pay their player paltry sums to have so many and still stay within the cap.

Now we're all realising how secure the 'Cap' was - but that's the deal  When you talk to some Welsh Regional fans, the Irish had bigger squads (strength in depth) and therefore had an advantage.  When talking to some English fans it's the reverse, then its that the Irish squads were much smaller (less strength in depth) and therefore had the advantage.

We always end up with the advantage!   I'm surprised Toulon hasn't joined in and said that because the majority of their players can't speak French, the Provinces have an Advantage!

BTW - an easy research exercise proved Quins point absolutely wrong as most Irish Provinces have roughly the same number in their squads as most top AP teams.  Truth goes missing in an argument once again.



I'd support a Salary cap in an instant - That ALL sides could meet!   But would all those sides want such a thing given the Welsh Regions threatened to pull out because they weren't getting enough money - presumably to keep Players.

So...would AP and Top14 agree to a European Cap that all sides in each League could reasonably expect to be able to afford?  Because unless AP and Top14 agreed then what purpose would be a Cap in Pro12?  The best players would still be willing to walk away for bigger money in England or France.

It has to be European wide to work in everybody's interest - indeed to work at all.  I called for such a conclusion time and time again last year, I'm sure you remember me calling for it - we were allies then - but there was deathly silence coming for the idea.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ospreys have a squad of 45. Bigger than most Premiership squads. (Munster have 46).

But they also do not have highly paid southern hemisphere players either.

I'm sure Welsh fans would settle for Highly paid Welsh ones.

I still say Coaches/Coaching were the problem over the years in Wales. Everyone in Wales seems to evade the Coaches/Coaching reason for lack of presumed success on the field...... until probably now.

A pro 12 salary cap wouldn't work. I actually would like one but the problem is the English and French clubs are forcing wages up across world rugby.

Well bookies have Munster 5pt favourites - with Ospreys available at 15-8. Decent bet (maybe as part of a double with Ulster) if it's the O's that played the first half v Connacht, rubbish odds if its the Ospreys second half v Connacht

It will be interesting to see if Ospreys goes once again with a lightweight backrower instead of a recognised 2nd row in the engine room, surely that would be suicide against that Munster team.

I wouldn't say Ardron is Lightweight. He's played well at Lock over the past few games and is no slouch either. I'd keep him there tbh. The Ospreys can have confidence of already beating Munster twice this season. If they can shut out the Thomand knockout game lets not have a repeat the 2009 sh1t kicking factor then its definetly a winnable game.

Connacht got drawn away to Gloucester in the playoff... surprise surprise. Who did the coin toss to decide this and when/where did it take place?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Connacht got drawn away to Gloucester in the playoff... surprise surprise. Who did the coin toss to decide this and when/where did it take place?

Wasn't Gloucester always going to get 'home'? Was that not the rules? Was there a need for a coin?

Vince, we didn't start to use our back rows in the 2nd row apart from the Leinster game at the end of November, until the 2nd half of the season, and that was mainly down to the number of 2nd row injuries we had suffered, it started mainly with King filling in there, but lately it has been Ardron, neither of those have let us down in the line out or the carrying department, a lot has been shown in the scrum and mauling phases, we were absolutely mullered on Saturday, when Connacht started a rolling maul. As Breadvan said Ardron is not small according to our website he is 17st 6, Bernardo who is a natural 2nd row is only down as 17st 8, in his injury period Lloyd Peers supposedly bulked up to 18st 2, it is NOT just down to bulk, starting and nullifying rolling mauls is down to expertise, Ardron has basically never performed there before and King only last season, when Ianto was either banned, injured or didn't show the enthusiasm for the cause, you can't just put somebody who is bulky into that position, they have to know where to position themselves and at what angle. As I explained last week I believe we missed a chance with Steenkamp a few weeks ago, if we had taken the chance about a month ago to put him on the bench, he could by now be available to start, we had the U20 captain Rory Thornton on the bench last weekend yet never used him, Cavubati the Fijian is still with us, why hasn't he been used? is it because he is the traditional South Sea Islander 2nd row and be too loose?
If Connacht can do that to us, can you imagine what Munster will do, we really need to make some personnel changes or spend the whole week, practicing that facet of play.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ospreys have a squad of 45. Bigger than most Premiership squads. (Munster have 46).

But they also do not have highly paid southern hemisphere players either.

You don't know what they are paid.

Ospreys have 4 x Fijians, 1 Moldovan, 3 South Africans, 2 Canadians, 1 Englishman, 1 Scot. = 12 non-Welsh players.

Munster have South Africans x 3, 1 Kiwi, 1 Australian & 1 Argentinian (temporary).

Next season that will be 2 SA & 2 Kiwis, none of whom are high profile players. Maybe if you went for a bit more quality rather than quantity.

2 of the Fijians are leaving(one of which was here to cover injuries), the 2 south africans are here to qualify on residency and the Englishman is Welsh qualified

Looking at it that way, Munster will only have one non-Irish eligible player from the SH next season (Saili). Bleyendaal, Stander & Gerhardt want to become Ireland qualified. CJ Stander qualifies in November.

Since Doug Howlett, Munster haven't had any big names from the SH.

SecretFly wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Connacht got drawn away to Gloucester in the playoff... surprise surprise. Who did the coin toss to decide this and when/where did it take place?

Wasn't Gloucester always going to get 'home'?  Was that not the rules?  Was there a need for a coin?

Yep, I thought that as soon as I saw this new playoff system. They will probably give the home draw to the English sides for the next couple of years before they eventually do the right thing and give this place to the winner of the Challenge cup.

Sin é wrote:
Since Doug Howlett, Munster haven't had any big names from the SH.

That's because they prefer the look of the French riviera to Limerick, rather than lack of yoyos - sure they tried to get the likes of Nonu and Vermulan!

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Since Doug Howlett, Munster haven't had any big names from the SH.

That's because they prefer the look of the French riviera to Limerick, rather than lack of yoyos - sure they tried to get the likes of Nonu and Vermulan!

Nonu maybe, but Munster & Leinster wouldn't pay Bundi Aki what he was looking for. I don't think Munster were interested in Vermulan, not with CJ covering the have a big Saffer lump role

You can never have enough big saffer lumps Sin -just ask Ulster

Now all we gotta do is have these big Saffers make babies with pigmy Irish wimen and the future is sorted.  The genes will have been impregnated with Superior size and We Shall Rule the World!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Compulsory shotgun weddings should now be declared law from IRFU for all resident Saffer players....in small print to get past those damn European human rights laws.

SecretFly wrote:Now all we gotta do is have these big Saffers make babies with pigmy Irish wimen and the future is sorted.  The genes will have been impregnated with Superior size and We Shall Rule the World!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I'd be hoping to that some tax incentive would be there for the Saffers to mate repatriated Eastern European females - the IRFU would then take each first born son and allocate to one of the provincial academies and then cap for emerging Ireland.

Not sure how PC or ethical that is but you have to play to your strengths.

Possible very big blow for us, Josh Matavesi is doubtful with hip injury, Spratt could come in but he normally plays OC, the injuries to both Beck and Bishop have really hurt us in that position as especially Bishop could have and has in the past covered both centre positions. Just hope Josh is ok.

Zebo will probably be fit, POM looking doubtful....

Ospreys team announced
Evans, Hassler, John, Matavesi, Walker, Biggar, Webb, Smith, Baldwin, Arhip, Ardron, AWJ, Lydiate, Tuperic, Baker.
Thank god Josh recovered from last week, the only starting change to last week is Lids in for King
Replacements Parry, Thomas, Jarvis, Thornton, King, Habberfield, Davies and Spratt, it is exactly the same 23 as last week with only King and Lydiate swapping.