Pro12 FINAL - Glasgow Warriors v Munster Rugby, 30 May

                                       
31 GLASGOW WARRIORS v MUNSTER RUGBY 13
Saturday 30 May 2015
KO: 18:30
Ravenhill, Belfast

Live on Sky Sports/TG4/BBC Sport Scotland

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 127th competition game)
Assistant Referees: 1) Ian Davies, 2) Sean Brickell, 4) Gwyn Morris, 5) Wayne Davies (all WRU )
Citing Commissioner: Stefano Marrama (FIR)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

25 Played 25
9 Wins 15
15 Losses 9
1 Draws 1
46 Tries 63
36 Conversions 42
64 Penalties 54
1 Drop Goals 1
491 Points 564
25 Avg. Age 27

B. Head to Head - Recently

Sat 28 Feb 2015 - Munster Rugby 22 - 10 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Dec 2014 - Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Fri 16 May 2014 (PO) -  Glasgow Warriors 16 - 15 Munster Rugby

Sat 12 Apr 2014 - Munster Rugby 5 - 22 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct 2013 - Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

C. Run-In

Glasgow Warriors

22/05/15 - Glasgow 16 - 14 Ulster

16/05/15 Glasgow 32 - 10 Ulster

08/05/15 Ospreys 21 - 10 Glasgow

Munster Rugby

23/05/15 Munster 21 - 18 Ospreys

16/05/15 Munster 50 - 27 Dragons

09/05/15 Ulster 23 - 23 Munster

D. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

Stuart Hogg, Tommy Seymour, Richie Vernon, Peter Horne, DTH van der Merwe, Finn Russell, Henry Pyrgos, Gordon Reid, Dougie Hall, Rossouw de Klerk, Leone Nakarawa, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Ryan Wilson, Josh Strauss (captain).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Jerry Yanuyanutawa, Jon Welsh, Al Kellock, Chris Fusaro, Niko Matawalu, Duncan Weir, Sean Lamont.

Munster Rugby

Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley (captain), Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Eusebio Guinazu, BJ Botha; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Donnacha Ryan, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Sean Dougall, Jack O'Donoghue, Cathal Sheridan, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

Well it is going to be a very interesting final. Two great teams both in decent form...

Thanks GC.

All sorted for Saturday with tickets, travel and accomodation (the trickiest part - Belfast is not well covered for hotels).

At least we know how Munster will play - i.e. the Munster way ! For us think we need Big AK back for the lineout and he always ups his game v POC. Mad Mata on the bench with DTH in his rightful starting position. Big Gordy fae Ayr (aka Shrek) should start too with the Coo on the other side of Fraser Brown. Wee P fae Ayr on bench with RDK and Grant. Back row is a tricky one - think Ryan Wilson has played himself brilliantly back into contention from the naughty step. We have 5 players at the top of their game vying for 3 positions (Strauss, who will start, Ashe, Fusaro (7 only), Wilson and Big Bad Boab
Harley. We could have 4 8s starting Saturday ( including The V Man at 13) The rest should pick themselves.

Maes - I don't normally like to contradict nice statements like yours about my team but I really don't think that Glasgow are playing particularly well at the moment by their standards and they have reached this final despite some major lapses in form and concentration.

Out set piece has been wobbly at best for at least 3 games now and some players seemed to be phoning in their performances - most brutally exposured against the Ospreys at the beginning of May, where they absolutely hammered us for simple mistakes. It has taken brilliant pieces of individual play to spark the team like Hogg's electric try in the last league game of the season against Ulster to get the team in gear.

Other than still missing our first choice centre combination (Dunbar and Bennett), we seem to have reached the final game of the season without knowing what our first choice front row is and relying heavily on the experience of a 34 year old hooker, who is apparently the only person at the club who is fit and can throw straight.

The coaches know about it though - Toonie was in the press today saying that the team has to be at least 20% better to win the final - sounds about right.

In terms of positives, then - this Glasgow side has confidence and patience - two qualities which win games and which you cannot buy. They are also a final quarter team with great fitness and if we can stay within a score with 20 minutes to go, I will be confident that we can win - we've done it time and time again for 3 years now. They're just bloody difficult to beat.

Other positives are that there are genuinely strike runners - DTH, Seymour and Hogg who can pull something out of thin air and a set of forwards who can carry all day and can offload like centres. Why we are letting DTH leave is far, far over the rainbow for me. I just don't understand how we can replace him - even with our Mahoosive Fijian rumbling our way.

Will that be enough against Munster? Who knows - the first thing we need to know is who is fit and who isn't. A Munster without O'Mahoney, Murray or Zebo (none of whom made it to the end of their semi) is only half as effective.

Unfortunately as Kellock and Brown were both concussed on Friday, it will be unlikely that we will see either of them back for this match. If Swinson has not recovered, then that is going to leave us light on second rows. We may see either Harley or Eddie on the bench for this one. That might solve the problem of where to play Harley, who is to good to leave out, yet probably is not one of our best back rows on form.

Fusaro looked like he took a battering as well and was struggling even before he went off. Ryan Wilson played well though and did make a difference, I would be less worried after that game about him starting at 7.

We have got to sort out our set piece though and that means having a hooker who can throw. I can see Dougie Hall being brought back for this one. Reid and Cussack will definitely be in the squad, probably Grant as the other LH and maybe one of Murray or Welsh as the second TH, De Klerk did not have the best game and maybe he will go for Murray's experience.

It was a hard hard game on Friday and there may be other injuries that we don't know about that will effect selection.

Oh and there is no way that Niko plays on the wing again. SH off the bench for him, to create some havoc in the last 20 mins. Henry played well again and the shirt is his.

I have watched the whole game now Gee and I thought that Ryan Grant completely sucked. It's been awful how far he seems to have regressed. I would have him firmly behind Dickinson, Reid and even (moonlighting as a loosehead) Welsh for Scotland now.

I fear for Glasgow for this one - I'm just not sure they'll be able to cope with Munster's power. We've known all along that the main reason Glasgow haven't been able to make the step up in Europe and in the league is a lack of power up front - I can't see things changing.

Swinson should come back in if fit, and DTH should definitely replace pantomime villain #1.

Front row, God knows!

One positive for Glasgow is that the Munster kickers didn't know their arsenal from their elbow - hopefully that continues.

I would start with Reid-Hall-Murray, with PoopieGrant, SquintyArrowsMacArthur and Michael Cusack on the bench. In the boiler room, I like Big Naka as a substitute, so Gray-Swinson would seem to be the way ahead if the Ruck Inspectorate does not return fit to play.

Harley has played lock before but the idea of him trying to stop a Ryan/O'Connell driving maul makes me feel sick. I think that this whole notion of 'power' is perhaps overstated. Well, at least I hope it is. If we need to transfuse 10 pints of Rory Best's blood to pass on his Wolverine like powers of recovery to Swinson, we should do it.

The backline picks itself:
09 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 DTH
12 Horne
13 Vernon
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

21 Matawalu
22 Weir
23 Lamont

Keatley clearly getting the yips under pressure has got to be a concern for Munster - as has their potential injury count.

I have no idea where Swinson is at, he was limping very badly when he went off in the Ospreys game, which I guess does not bode well.

It is unusual in these concussion sensitive days (and quite rightly) for players to come back the week after they are concussed so it is not looking good for Brown and Kellock.

Gray and Naka is an effective and imposing second row (probably our best unit) so we won't lose anything from the starting lineup. Strauss can captain the team effectively, we just need someone who can throw the ball into the line out and hope we don't get any injuries!

Needs a new winner, so hope Glasgow win it, it's long overdue. Pretty hard to write Munster off though, they're looking good.

If The Captain and Tim Swinson are out then Harley could bench as cover for 5,6 &7.   Rather keep Big Naka on the bench and start Bob Harley at lock.

Starting with a backrow in the engine room would be suicide against that Munster team who will target the Glasgow's front 5. Jonny Gray and Nakarawa to start for me.

VinceWLB wrote:Starting with a backrow in the engine room would be suicide against that Munster team who will target the Glasgow's front 5. Jonny Gray and Nakarawa to start for me.

Have to agree. The game could be gone by half time if we don't.

If either one of them flags (Gray won't, he's a machine) or (Bill McLaren forbid) gets injured, then Mini Tim can come on to do his 'bluebottle into a car windscreen' impression.

VinceWLB wrote:Starting with a backrow in the engine room would be suicide against that Munster team who will target the Glasgow's front 5. Jonny Gray and Nakarawa to start for me.

Agree with that. Harley to bench if not other fit locks. He may have to play or bench to cover back row as well if Fusaro does not make it.

Ospreys used Lydgate as a one man 'stop Stander' misson and it was pretty successful when he was on the pitch. He is their main carrier and can do some damage if not stopped in his tracks. Harley may be our best man to do this job as well. Just because he has sat out the last two games does not mean he will miss this one. Toonie is the selector remember!

If we don't have Fozzy fit, then (and only then) would I contemplate playing without an openside as I think that Sherlock is broken too.

6. Strauss 7. Harley 8. Ashe - won't win any turnovers, but defensively it's the equivalent of building a brick wall across the gainline.

Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Shut the front door!

Where did that come from??

RDW, there was no need to lock the other thread. I think some delusional fans were finally beginning to turn a corner, especially after it had been reiterated by Whitehouse, quoted by Harries on Scrum V, stating that Owens made the correct decisions and Munster were worthy winners .

Okay I'm going to lock this one too now. Move on folks, the show's over. Nothing to see here....


...oh, sorry,.... I'm not even a Mod but I got caught up in the Sunday 'close-down' mood.

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Oh god, Yappy, you've just ruined my evening.

The Saint wrote:RDW, there was no need to lock the other thread. I think some delusional fans were finally beginning to turn a corner, especially after it had been reiterated by Whitehouse, quoted by Harries on Scrum V, stating that Owens made the correct decisions and Munster were worthy winners .

You've had your say Saint - I'd quite like this thread not to descend into petty squabbling too!

No more please.

George Carlin wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Oh god, Yappy, you've just ruined my evening.

When does his contract expire, he is likely to be hot property when it does if he carries on playing like he did for the past two weeks?

BigGee wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Oh god, Yappy, you've just ruined my evening.

When does his contract expire, he is likely to be hot property when it does if he carries on playing like he did for the past two weeks?

Contract to 2016 according to a thread on the Glasgow site.

Quins are my english team and I have thought in the past that he would fit in well there, from a scotland perspective I don't want him to. I'd much rather we kept Russell, Dunbar and Bennett together week in week out although for his development it wouldn't be too bad to be inbetween Care and Roberts, with Brown, Yarde and Visser on the end of his passes.
At the same time it's another situation where Glasgow need to decide what they're about, if they're just a development tool for Scotland then let him go if they're serious about regularly competing for the Pro12 and eventually for the Champions cup we really need to hold onto the likes of Russell. If you think of the fact in the past 4-5 years we've lost Gray, Brown, Barclay, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and end of this year Welsh, Maitland, Matawalu and Van Der Merwe. If we'd kept those players we'd be so much stronger currently. Would Leinster and Munster be where they are if O'Driscoll and O'Connell had left as soon as they broke through and their contracts were up? Obviously they have four teams and we have just two so places are at a premium in fact you could argue that if the players mentioned before had stayed the new young ones wouldn't have broken through but that argument wears thin when Edinburgh and Glasgow keep signing both project players and players who will never qualify. Another aspect is to keep interest from young fans you need to keep the best players somewhere they can be seen regularly so in many ways it is a long term investment to keep them available to watch every week. Of course he may be someone who wants to travel the world but I think we should aim never to lose the likes of Hogg, Russell, Dunbar, Bennett or Hidalgo-Clyne from Scotland for lack of money.

Glasgow moved/moving on XV is quite a team!

1 John Welsh
2 Scott Lawson
3 Moray Low
4 Richie Gray
5 Tom Ryder
6 Kelly Brown
7 John Barclay
8 Johnnie Beattie

9 Chris Cusiter
10 Dan Parks
11 DTH
12 ?
13 Max Evans
14 Sean Maitland
15 Byron McGuigan

You can put Downey at 12, good player in his days.

Remember the Downey for Ireland argument. We've come so far...

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Utter crap - probably started by a Munster person. Feckin pathetic tbh !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Are the rumours true that Finn Russell may be coming to Harlequins when his contract expires? Any one heard that?

Utter crap - probably started by a Munster person.  Feckin pathetic tbh !  

I'm surprised you're not blaming Edinburgh fans. Or Westminster more to the point!

It's true it was just reported on BBC sport......

.....that Lewis Hamilton didn't win his race because his team messed up

The reality is unfortunately, that English and French teams will be able to throw money at players they want that we just can't match. You can't blame players for wanting to get the maximum financial benefit for their playing time, it can be a very short career in todays game.

Our challenge in Scotland is not to break the bank to try and hang onto players like Finn, I don't want him to go, but do accept it as inevitable at some stage, but to keep the conveyor belt moving so that we have replacements lined up for him when he does go. We do seem to be getting better at bringing players through than we were so I am hopeful.

As much as no one wants him to leave Glasgow, he could do a lot worse than going to 'quins to be fair:

9 Danny Care
10 Finn Russell
11 Tim Visser
12 Jamie Roberts
13 George Lowe
14 Marland Yard
15 Mike Brown

I do hope this is very much speculation though!

Spot the weak link in that team... Ahem.

RDW_Scotland wrote:As much as no one wants him to leave Glasgow, he could do a lot worse than going to 'quins to be fair:

9 Danny Care
10 Finn Russell
11 Tim Visser
12 Jamie Roberts
13 George Lowe
14 Marland Yard
15 Mike Brown

I do hope this is very much speculation though!

All those guys are of course on pauper's wages too. Fair play Quins.

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:As much as no one wants him to leave Glasgow, he could do a lot worse than going to 'quins to be fair:

9 Danny Care
10 Finn Russell
11 Tim Visser
12 Jamie Roberts
13 George Lowe
14 Marland Yard
15 Mike Brown

I do hope this is very much speculation though!

All those guys are of course on pauper's wages too.    Fair play Quins.

Just remember, if you don't see a salary cap, one doesn't exist.

A bit like a Gruffalo.

IanBru wrote:Spot the weak link in that team... Ahem.

Harsh. I've always rated Jamie Roberts.....

As I see it, the only "certainties" for Saturday are...
Dougie Hall and Squinty eyes (thanks GC) sharing the hooking berth.
Ickle Jonny and Big Naka in the second row
Hornee Furra Linee and Richie V in the centres.

This is based on the assumption that Brown and the Captain are undergoing concussion protocols and shouldn't be allowed to play, and that our only two fit centres are actually fit.

In the category of "starting if fit"
Hogg
Seymour
DTH (Mata is not half the winger he is, and I have long suspected that despite his mercurial gifts he is a less effective scrum half than Henners)
Dancer
Henners
Bluto

The rest of the back row and propping duties are up for grabs. The only question is will it be the Magic Tombola or the tragic sick note picking the side.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Glasgow moved/moving on XV is quite a team!

1 John Welsh
2 Scott Lawson
3 Moray Low
4 Richie Gray
5 Tom Ryder
6 Kelly Brown
7 John Barclay
8 Johnnie Beattie

9 Chris Cusiter
10 Dan Parks
11 DTH
12 ?
13 Max Evans
14 Sean Maitland
15 Byron McGuigan

Even better a combined one could be:

1. Reid
2. Brown
3. Welsh
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Strauss
7. Barclay
8. Ashe
9. Cusiter
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. MacArthur
18. De Klerk
19. Nakarawa
20. Brown
21. Matawalu
22. Jackson
23. Van De Merwe

And then the rest of the squad:
Fagerson
Lawson
Murray
Yanuyanutawa
Swinson
Paterson
Beattie
Fusaro
Wilson
Harley
Pyrgos
Hart
Blair
Weir
Horne
Vernon
Evans
Lamont
Hughes
Murchie


Now I know when you factor in EDPs it seems a huge squad but I'd be interested as to how it compared in size to Leinster when they were at their peak.

Munster favourite Nigel O'Wens refereeing the final.

Hard lines Glasgow.

I hate Owens' refereeing at the breakdown, one time he will let the player keep the ball for 10 seconds on the ground the other time he will blow his whistle for not releasing after 1 second depending on the team and where the action take place. I really think he is overrated and i would have preferred Hodges to ref this one.

I am happy with Owen. He will let the game flow and that will suit Glasgow. He will also not let POC and POM ref the game!

I think Nigel Owens is one of the few who refs what they've seen rather than what they've read. In the last I'd have aside it was because he'd actually played the game but after the Glen Jackson debacle...

Sir Nige likes a free flowing offloading game.
Of the soapdodging variety.

George Carlin wrote:Maes - I don't normally like to contradict nice statements like yours about my team but I really don't think that Glasgow are playing particularly well at the moment by their standards and they have reached this final despite some major lapses in form and concentration.

Out set piece has been wobbly at best for at least 3 games now and some players seemed to be phoning in their performances - most brutally exposured against the Ospreys at the beginning of May, where they absolutely hammered us for simple mistakes. It has taken brilliant pieces of individual play to spark the team like Hogg's electric try in the last league game of the season against Ulster to get the team in gear.

Other than still missing our first choice centre combination (Dunbar and Bennett), we seem to have reached the final game of the season without knowing what our first choice front row is and relying heavily on the experience of a 34 year old hooker, who is apparently the only person at the club who is fit and can throw straight.

The coaches know about it though - Toonie was in the press today saying that the team has to be at least 20% better to win the final - sounds about right.

In terms of positives, then - this Glasgow side has confidence and patience - two qualities which win games and which you cannot buy. They are also a final quarter team with great fitness and if we can stay within a score with 20 minutes to go, I will be confident that we can win - we've done it time and time again for 3 years now. They're just bloody difficult to beat.

Other positives are that there are genuinely strike runners - DTH, Seymour and Hogg who can pull something out of thin air and a set of forwards who can carry all day and can offload like centres. Why we are letting DTH leave is far, far over the rainbow for me. I just don't understand how we can replace him - even with our Mahoosive Fijian rumbling our way.

Will that be enough against Munster? Who knows - the first thing we need to know is who is fit and who isn't. A Munster without O'Mahoney, Murray or Zebo (none of whom made it to the end of their semi) is only half as effective.

I was referring to their campaign rather than current form but your post sums up well their issues. Something that Munster don't have.
My hey look a very sorted unit. Despite goal kicking issues an the excellent Connor Murray being absent they are still a remarkable team.

Firstly have to say these 2 teams deserve to be in the final and even though I'm disappointed Ulster didn't get the home final, which we'd have probably won, this is the best final from a neutral perspective and it's been a great season for the pro12.

There would be a justice in Glasgow winning and this would be great for the pro12, and Scottish rugby but have to throw my hat in with Munster and would love to see O'Connell, probably the greatest Irish player in history for me, go out on a high if this is his last club game.

Are there only 2 feckin hotels in Belfast ? Ffs !

I am delighted that Glasgow made it to the final, although was a little surprised - felt we have been hanging on by our fingertips the last month - and expected us to be beated - happy to be proven wrong

A little bit more concerned for this match - as our pack seems to have become powder puff - and I see us getting blown off the pack

If only we had a scrum that could give us a platform....how far could we have gone...how confident I would be....how drunk I would become

The scrum improved immeasurably after Gordon 'Shrek' Reid and Mike 'Coo' Cusack came on. More concerned about hooker if Fraser Brown is out tbh

Truly may the best side on the day win and enjoy it - players and fans.

Glasgow showed a virtual Munsteristic desire NOT to Be Beaten in that game against Ulster.  They just burned themselves back into the game and over the line on sheer dogged vicious grit.  And whilst I was annoyed that Ulster hoisted the white flag (pardon the non-intended pun) it was also exciting to see that greed and defiant thunder in the Glasgow guys not to let their moment pass.

That's what Pro12 needs more of - that fire rather than mere drills and tactics.  Fire and intensity.

So I'd love Munster to do it - as I would have loved Ulster to beat Glasgow.  These are my boys in all Provinces and they all at times make me proud.  And there is never a hint of doubt in my mind, I'm never neutral.  Whenever a Province fights a Scottish, Welsh or Italian side, they have my complete backing.  

But Munster especially make me excited now because whatever the outcome of the final, I can see them now beginning to grind and growl back from their doldrums years.  They might take a year or two yet but that physical fury and anger at being 'also-ran outsiders' is growing again.  And that drives their spirit both in games and probably more especially in training.  Those Limerick, Cork ... and South African ...  boyos    feed on being 'irrelevant'.  

Foley was an alleged bad boy at the beginning of the season for letting his thoughts be known about slackers.  But you can see how his philosophy of no hiding place for non-Munsterish players is paying off.  So it's exciting to think of Connacht gaining a harder competitive edge, to think of Munster getting in the mood to rumble again like the old days, Ulster getting Kiss to steady their ship hopefully, and Leinster having at least a chance now of being better than truly awful with a change of coach plus Sexton and others coming in.

Glasgow will give it everything they've got.  Munster will try to keep momentum going.  Whatever the result it should be a good final for Pro12 to hold their head high on.  The winners will earn it.