England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

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England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Wed 20 May 2015, 8:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

So after all the drama and acrimony of the last couple of weeks, its time for the action to begin on the field. The first test of the English summer gets underway at the HQ from tomorrow. An upcoming New Zealand against an embattled England. But England are on home turf, New Zealand don't have a good record in England, most of their recent success has come at home, the core of their test side are just coming on the back of T-20 cricket at the IPL rather than much getting used to English conditions.
England on the other hand are without a coach and questions on Kevin Pietersen are going away nowhere. There are unsettled issues about the combination of the side, with the position of one of the openers, the 3rd seamer and the spinner being open questions.
Adam Lyth is likely to make his debut for England tomorrow, and there is a chance that Mark Wood might come in for Chris Jordan.
For New Zealand, it is being suggested that Matt Henry might get to debut and offer backup to Tim Southee and Trent Boult. Martin Guptill, on the back of a spectacular world cup and 150 in the warmup game is set to come back as test opener, and Corey Anderson, coming back from injury, is set to take the all-rounder position.
Set for some very interesting cricket.......

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:14 pm

Anderson hasn't swung the ball much, and he certainly hasn't hit the right length as much as he would have liked to.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:21 pm

Good pace from Stokes, he's not the finished article, but he has the makings of a special player.......

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by VTR on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:22 pm

That 389 isn't looking very imposing at the moment. Long way to go, but NZ will already be thinking about a good first innings lead and put the pressure back on the England top order who have failed catastrophically 2 innings in a row now.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:23 pm

PITCH IT UP JIMMY
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:28 pm

msp83 wrote:Anderson hasn't swung the ball much, and he certainly hasn't hit the right length as much as he would have liked to.

Yes. He is having one of those days where he is just a little bit "off"...has been either too straight or leavable ; and Guptill has left him well.

You'd hope one of the other bowlers could step up : but it does seem that if Anderson doesn't break through early it tends not to happen. Though I wouldn't say Stokes is bowling poorly ; just not having much luck. Needs to stay patient.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:34 pm

Guptill reaches 50, he had to wait a bit on 49. Good beginning to his test comeback after 2 years.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:37 pm

Good fifty Guptill clap

Making England pay for a centimetre or two of misplaced foot...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:41 pm

Time to give Moeen a twirl surely?
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Liam on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:51 pm

The bowlers haven't got it quite right yet. Little too short or straight, need to get these two playing outside off and driving, especially Latham. Maybe its time for Moeen. Fancy Stokes to eventually break through.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 2:58 pm

Have to credit these batsmen. Bowling hasn't been bad exactly. Just not quite right as Liam says - or not quite right often enough. But conditions are reasonably pleasant for batting today (have been really since the first hour or so on Thursday ) ; and the batsmen haven't made too many mistakes.
Not missing out on the odd loose ball either , so the run rate is ticking over nicely.

Spin time...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:12 pm

Ali gets the wicket, Latham goes LBW....... New Zealand 148-1.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:13 pm

And spin does the trick .

Latham gets one that skids and is stone dead lbw. To say England needed that is an understatement....well played Latham

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:14 pm

MOEEN!
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:16 pm

And one brings two as Ballance takes a great catch to remove Guptill !

Funny old game...

And nearly a third ! Bit high I think...


Last edited by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add)

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:16 pm

Something of a mixed bag from Moeen's 2 overs but the important thing is that it included a wicket!

And now Guptill falls to a wideish ball from Broad. Good catch by Ballance.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:17 pm

And 1 brings 1 more!, a hit me ball goes straight to hand as Guptill goes, Guptill's luck running out and England are right back in it.......
Ross Taylor has been struggling a bit of late, and Williamson hasn't had much cricket in recent days and whatever little he had was in the IPL....... Can England burst the door open?

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:17 pm

Guptill like Peter Fulton should be nothing but a walking wicket in tests -
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:23 pm

Madness all round...crazy single , Taylor would have been dead if Broad had been accurate from close range ...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:23 pm

A run-out chance missed now. That is the 2nd chance missed on the field besides that overstep.......

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:23 pm

Madness all round...crazy single , Taylor would have been dead if Broad had been accurate from close range ...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:23 pm

Madness all round...crazy single , Taylor would have been dead if Broad had been accurate from close range ...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:28 pm

Crucial partnership this - if they can get the kiwis towards 250-270 without another wicket falling then McCullum/Anderson can come in and take the game away from England, however another quick wicket means they come in and have to curb their natural game
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:33 pm

Apologies for multiple posts , my iPad has gone nuts...

Wood back... I approve.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 3:43 pm

So another good session for NZ , and they are well ahead in the game despite the two wickets.
However I'm not certain batting last will be as easy as it traditionally is at Lord's ; so they might need a decent lead.

Might well get one , of course Very Happy

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 May 2015, 4:07 pm

alfie wrote:So another good session for NZ , and they are well ahead in the game despite the two wickets.
However I'm not certain batting last will be as easy as it traditionally is at Lord's ; so they might need a decent lead.

Might well get one , of course Very Happy

Alfie - might quibble with New Zealand being being ''well ahead''. Certainly their day so far but a couple of early wickets in the last session would give the game a very different look.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 4:24 pm

Ross Taylor has been out there for a while, but he just doesn't look his normal self. Seems his confidence isn't quite there.......

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 4:46 pm

Anderson back on and hits Taylor's pads first ball, Given not out and England reviewed. Umpire's call and not out, and it did look not out for me at the outset.......

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Fri 22 May 2015, 4:57 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:So another good session for NZ , and they are well ahead in the game despite the two wickets.
However I'm not certain batting last will be as easy as it traditionally is at Lord's ; so they might need a decent lead.

Might well get one , of course Very Happy

Alfie - might quibble with New Zealand being being ''well ahead''. Certainly their day so far but a couple of early wickets in the last session would give the game a very different look.

Well true...in cricket two quick wickets generally changes things significantly ; but I didn't think there was good reason to expect them to fall , judged on what I've seen today.Smile
Not just the runs , but the good scoring rate. Right now I'd say they are on for 500 ; but a lot can happen before they get there !

They'll surely have about 300 by the close tonight. So unless England can remove two or three of them by then , tomorrow could be ugly...

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:11 pm

Wood for Jordan what an utterly stupid decision.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by msp83 on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:16 pm

Kane Williamson goes pass 50. He's been going about his task without fuss.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:18 pm

Olly wrote:Crucial partnership this - if they can get the kiwis towards 250-270 without another wicket falling then McCullum/Anderson can come in and take the game away from England, however another quick wicket means they come in and have to curb their natural game

This could get away from England veeeeery quickly if they're not careful
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:21 pm

I would be tempted to give Root a couple of overs to see if he can shake things up.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Liam on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:27 pm

Yeh I agree. The pace men aren't doing much atm so a bit of spin from Root (who bowled well in the west indies) might produce something, especially in the case of Williamson, who looks set for a big score. Need a wicket before the end of play otherwise England could be looking at a big deficit.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by wisden on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:27 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Wood for Jordan what an utterly stupid decision.


it isn't stupid at all... The only thing Jordan contributed in the carribean was slip catching... he wasn't penetrating at all with the ball, and didn't look threatning, also didn't score any runs... wood has genuine pace, can reverse swing, the ball and looked dangerous earlier, great selection IMO.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:31 pm

Kane Williamson really is a lovely player
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by wisden on Fri 22 May 2015, 5:35 pm

class act, and a genuine run machine

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by banyun on Fri 22 May 2015, 6:24 pm

After 30-4, every recognized batsman has passed 50, with Taylor about to do so also. Suggest a very flat pitch with a bit of movement in the first hour of the test, perhaps combined with some nerves causing problems. I didn't see the wickets this morning, but Root, Stokes and Buttler weren't really got out by great bowling, just slight lapses in concentration.

Could see this being a draw if England don't throw away their wickets in the 2nd innings.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by kingraf on Fri 22 May 2015, 7:05 pm

So NZ well on top after D2. No surprise really, as they are simply the better team. The only reason England were in with a look is because NZ were rusty and this series is in English conditions.

Wonder what odds I can get for England to lose all four series this year?
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by kingraf on Fri 22 May 2015, 7:13 pm

As a side note, the fact Sunrisers Hyderabad had to rest two of Boult, Steyn and Williamson to play local players retards the idea that IPL is international quality. Not a critique, as first and foremost, a domestic competition has to build local talent. But the two aren't mutually beneficial.
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by kingraf on Fri 22 May 2015, 7:24 pm

Lastly, I promise!

I like the Nick method of selection where whoever is having a bad game shouldn't have played. It's obviously true, but without powers of premonition, seems a difficult selection criteria to enforce
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 7:54 pm

kingraf wrote:So NZ well on top after D2. No surprise really, as they are simply the better team. The only reason England were in with a look is because NZ were rusty and this series is in English conditions.

Wonder what odds I can get for England to lose all four series this year?

Not good ones I'd imagine - this is on paper the easiest of them all!

Pretty jealous of anyone going to Lords tomorrow - could see some serious batting with McCullum and Anderson to come (and if Taylor gets going too)
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 May 2015, 11:03 pm

Don't cave under the pressure, England.

Nailed-on draw here if they remain mentally serene - history dictates to us that Lord's is superb to bat on for days two, three and four. Oh a spot of rain around, as well.

England to lose all four this year? Pah, don't make me laugh.

Now the 7/2 on England to take Australia this summer is an absolute gift. And have a little nibble at England to win 3-0 over Australia at a ludicrous, and generous, 100/1.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 May 2015, 11:46 pm

Kinda a reason why it's 100/1 Duty my man
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by alfie on Sat 23 May 2015, 3:45 am

Indeed NZ day ...and Saturday could be the day on which they take an unshakeable grip on the game. Is there any way back for England or are they condemned to a three day battle to save the draw ? Well the new ball is due early in the morning ; so if they can grab say three wickets before lunch , then keeping the NZ lead down under 100 is still quite possible. (Equally if they don't break through they will likely be looking st a huge deficit , but I'm trying to be positive here)
Batting conditions likely to remain easy , so no reason England can't score big runs second time around. As banyun points out , all the batsmen since that first hour have passed fifty...
The pace at which the game has moved suggests another 320-350 will be scored on the third day ; so which team is batting to score them all should give us a clear picture of where it goes from there .
NZ bat all day , lead by 240............ Or NZ all out 450 , England finish the day ahead by 100 odd...game on. Either way this is a long way from a clear draw , dead pitch or no.
The former looks more likely based on yesterday ; but Test Cricket is a funny beast . Sometimes things change when you least expect it ; so I am not conceding yet.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2015, 9:56 am

The fact is that if McCullum or Anderson get going this will get away from England very very quickly - need to get those guys early when they come in
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 23 May 2015, 10:37 am

alfie wrote:Indeed NZ day ...and Saturday could be the day on which they take an unshakeable grip on the game. Is there any way back for England or are they condemned to a three day battle to save the draw ? Well the new ball is due early in the morning ; so if they can grab say three wickets before lunch , then keeping the NZ lead down under 100 is still quite possible. (Equally if they don't break through they will likely be looking st a huge deficit , but I'm trying to be positive here)
Batting conditions likely to remain easy , so no reason England can't score big runs second time around.  As banyun points out , all the batsmen since that first hour have passed fifty...
The pace at which the game has moved suggests another 320-350 will be scored on the third day ; so which team is batting to score them all should give us a clear picture of where it goes from there .
NZ bat all day , lead by 240............ Or NZ all out 450 , England finish the day ahead by 100 odd...game on. Either way this is a long way from a clear draw , dead pitch or no.
The former looks more likely based on yesterday ; but Test Cricket is a funny beast . Sometimes things change when you least expect it ; so I am not conceding yet.

Hi Alfie - yep, agree with all of that. The last bit is very much why I was quibbling with your comment at tea yesterday that New Zealand were ''well ahead''. At that time NZ were 170 odd/2 and they still needed over 200 runs to match us. Admittedly, they've now moved a damn sight closer and, to be fair, you were emphasising you couldn't see much stopping that from being the case.

So where are we now? NZ trail by 86 but still have those pesky 8 wickets in hand. I would definitely far rather be in their shoes and can't believe any sane man would disagree at this stage. However, a good morning session would see us back in the hunt. 3 or, being greedy, 4 wickets then would also slow the scoring rate and maybe see us trailing by less than 50 on first innings. We should be able to cope with that sort of deficit. Quite cloudy and breezy here which might suit our seamers (although I thought that yesterday too!).

There again, if NZ win the first session today (as they did on Thursday and Friday) then we are almost certainly going to be hanging on for the draw. Enthralling ....

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 23 May 2015, 10:43 am

What a two days of cricket to start the summer! Brilliant start by New Zealand who then fell away in the middle, but their batting yesterday was superb. Helped by some not so great bowling by England of course, but still have to score the runs.

Like Alfie says test cricket can change in the space of half an hour, if England come out this morning and Jimmy can get the ball talking, and by talking I mean bloody yelling, then England could grab a few quick wickets and change the complexion of the match one more. Just a word of advice to the bowlers, keep your foot behind the line Wink
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2015, 11:05 am

It is genuinely amazing after all the runs Williamson scored there yesterday that we don't have people in the gully/third man region
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 May 2015, 11:07 am

It's braindead captaincy it really is Olly.

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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2015, 11:22 am

24 runs off the first 5 overs this morning - not the start we wanted
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Re: England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

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