Pro12 Finals

First topic message reminder :

This year signalled a shift towards a neutral, predetermined venue for the "Grand Final". Belfast was a fantastic choice for this and was a wonderful venue however there are some calls to move the final to a larger stadium to create an atmosphere similar to that at Twickenham yesterday and therefore making it a bigger occasion. There are a number of issues with this, namely that it would mean the final would have to be held in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin or Cardiff every year but for argument's sake how do we look to fill out these larger venues?

Firstly it's worth remembering that (if we discount the Italians) we have a combined population of 10 million which is a sixth of the English, and this population is spread far less densely and with far more expensive and difficult transport links so it is logistically difficult. Also Twickenham is the home of rugby for english fans and therefore represents something close to a pilgrimage for English fans regardless of club allegiances, this is something you wouldn't get for a fan of the Dragons if the final was in Scotland or Ireland between clubs from Scotland or Ireland especially when you factor cost of transport and the fact that diehard rugby fans would have probably travelled long distances just a couple of months before for the Six Nations. Nevertheless giving the final to the top team is also difficult as it's hard to create a big occasion befitting of the league in just one week, so what it the solution?

The first step in my opinion would be to appeal to and, in many ways, reward the diehard fans. By that I mean give heavily subsidised tickets to the season ticket holders regardless of club and maybe organise travel from major population bases so Dublin, Belfast, Edinbugh, Glasgow and Dublin. That way you get a crowd with large numbers of real rugby fans who enjoy each others company. Of course you want to make sure the finalists have large numbers of fans there so it's a bit more partisan so maybe holding back 20,000 tickets until the play-offs and then give 2,500 tickets each to the semi-finalists and then after the semis give 5,000 each to the finalists to be sold at their own price and also divide up any remaining tickets. Anything they lose from cheap tickets they'll gain in the long run through a bigger spectacle and more sponsorship as a result.

Second step would be to make it more relevant to fans of every club so either a sevens tournament of sorts in the morning between the teams or perhaps more effectively some form of exhibition or charity game. Either between two "best of the rest" Pro12 XVs, or Pro12 XV against the Barbarians or two teams chosen by outgoing Pro12 legends in a kind of testimonial match.

Finally I'd try to make more of a spectacle of the event, you can say what you like about the SRU but they do put on a good show before matches. Say it was in Glasgow then there are a lot of local comedians and musicians who make a big deal about their allegiance to the city guys like Kevin Bridges and Amy Macdonald so get them involved have fireworks and really build up an atmosphere for the final.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:According to the Tourism Ireland website Belfast only has one five star hotel - The Merchant in the city centre - some of the other hotels (The Europa and the Hilton ) appear to be five star on sites like Expedia and Tripadvisor but are not "five star awarded" hotels as such, so where this idea that there have to be two or more five star hotels apears to be a bit off beam.

I have yet to receive a reply from Pro12 after I wrote to them asking them to confirm the 2015 tendered eligibility rules. Which is a shame.

Trying to get their cover story correct no doubt

Justa  simple answer would suffice. The trolls / WUMs like me would then have nothing to moan about, when the likes of this 5 star hotel rubbish is exposed as a mistruth.

Why should they have to answer though? Their not a public organisation and based in a different country, they asked all clubs to submit tenders and each were judged on the same criteria the only one of which that is publically mentioned is the need to seat 18'000 fans

marty2086 wrote:

Why should they have to answer though? Their not a public organisation and based in a different country, they asked all clubs to submit tenders and each were judged on the same criteria the only one of which that is publically mentioned is the need to seat 18'000 fans

They don't. But the only additional info we have so far, is from one of the official supporters associations who have been told things like the two 5 Star Hotels requirement, and the £100,000 upfront. Until we are officially told that this isn't the case, we must assume this is true, as no party would have any inclination to make an outlandish claim like that up for no reason.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Why should they have to answer though? Their not a public organisation and based in a different country, they asked all clubs to submit tenders and each were judged on the same criteria the only one of which that is publically mentioned is the need to seat 18'000 fans

They don't. But the only additional info we have so far, is from one of the official supporters associations who have been told things like the two 5 Star Hotels requirement, and the £100,000 upfront. Until we are officially told that this isn't the case, we must assume this is true, as no party would have any inclination to make an outlandish claim like that up for no reason.

Well if you could learn to use Google you'd find out plenty

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-final-held-kingspan-8524573

No Welsh bid was made to host the Guinness Pro12 Grand Final which will be staged at Ulster’s Kingspan Stadium at the end of May.

Ulster were unanimously chosen by the board to be hosts last week after being short-listed along with Glasgow.

Only the Ospreys would have been able to meet the 18,000 capacity criteria with their home ground. The other Welsh regions would have had to hire out either the Liberty, the Millennium Stadium or the Cardiff City Stadium.

Under the tender process, bidding teams had to guarantee a set financial return to Celtic Rugby, the governing body for the Pro12.

John Feehan wrote:The tender from ‘Team Belfast’ was outstanding and was unanimously agreed as the chosen venue. Belfast excelled itself as the host city for our Pro12 season launch in 2013 and their plans for the city in the lead up to and around the Final are very exciting

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3235/Logan-praises-%E2%80%98Team-Belfast%E2%80%99-as-PRO12-final-tickets-go-on-sale.aspx

Detailing why Belfast came out on top, Logan believes a number of factors proved decisive: “The joined up nature of Team Belfast’s approach; involving Ulster Rugby, Visit Belfast, Belfast City Council, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland, was critical to the successful bid. Another key factor is that the rugby public that is available in Ulster is second to none - we have a purpose-built, new 18,000 rugby stadium, we have over 10,000 season ticket holders, we have a track record of selling out games and we have a history of creating memorable rugby occasions. The ability of the city to put on a really special weekend, which has been proven at events like the MTV Awards and the Giro D’Italia, was crucial as well.”

It's possible that PRO12 haven't replied as the present criteria is under review.

Munchkin wrote:It's possible that PRO12 haven't replied as the present criteria is under review.

I hope so.

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Why should they have to answer though? Their not a public organisation and based in a different country, they asked all clubs to submit tenders and each were judged on the same criteria the only one of which that is publically mentioned is the need to seat 18'000 fans

They don't. But the only additional info we have so far, is from one of the official supporters associations who have been told things like the two 5 Star Hotels requirement, and the £100,000 upfront. Until we are officially told that this isn't the case, we must assume this is true, as no party would have any inclination to make an outlandish claim like that up for no reason.

Well if you could learn to use Google you'd find out plenty

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-final-held-kingspan-8524573

No Welsh bid was made to host the Guinness Pro12 Grand Final which will be staged at Ulster’s Kingspan Stadium at the end of May.

Ulster were unanimously chosen by the board to be hosts last week after being short-listed along with Glasgow.

Only the Ospreys would have been able to meet the 18,000 capacity criteria with their home ground. The other Welsh regions would have had to hire out either the Liberty, the Millennium Stadium or the Cardiff City Stadium.

Under the tender process, bidding teams had to guarantee a set financial return to Celtic Rugby, the governing body for the Pro12.

John Feehan wrote:The tender from ‘Team Belfast’ was outstanding and was unanimously agreed as the chosen venue. Belfast excelled itself as the host city for our Pro12 season launch in 2013 and their plans for the city in the lead up to and around the Final are very exciting

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3235/Logan-praises-%E2%80%98Team-Belfast%E2%80%99-as-PRO12-final-tickets-go-on-sale.aspx

Detailing why Belfast came out on top, Logan believes a number of factors proved decisive: “The joined up nature of Team Belfast’s approach; involving Ulster Rugby, Visit Belfast, Belfast City Council, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland, was critical to the successful bid. Another key factor is that the rugby public that is available in Ulster is second to none - we have a purpose-built, new 18,000 rugby stadium, we have over 10,000 season ticket holders, we have a track record of selling out games and we have a history of creating memorable rugby occasions. The ability of the city to put on a really special weekend, which has been proven at events like the MTV Awards and the Giro D’Italia, was crucial as well.”

If only we'd know this information!

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's possible that PRO12 haven't replied as the present criteria is under review.

I hope so.

Why?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's possible that PRO12 haven't replied as the present criteria is under review.

I hope so.

Why?

Because if we are to believe what we are being told Wales would never meet the criteria for hosting a Pro12 final. Neither would Scotland I think.

What are we being told that makes this so?

TJ wrote:What are we being told that makes this so?

It did come from an official Q&A fan meeting at Ospreys.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's possible that PRO12 haven't replied as the present criteria is under review.

I hope so.

Why?

Because if we are to believe what we are being told Wales would never meet the criteria for hosting a Pro12 final. Neither would Scotland I think.

Well Glasgow made the shortlist so Scotland would be in with a chance. Wales have the stadia and fanbase but given the timing and changes going on at the time of the tendering process this season may have been too soon for them

This year was a choice was between Belfast/Ravenhill which has a history of hosting big events and selling out rugby matches and Glasgow/Kilmarnock/Rugby Park which also has a history of big events but have sold out a stadium half the size 3 times in 3 years and are playing the game 25 miles away from that ground.

LordDowlais wrote:

TJ wrote:What are we being told that makes this so?

It did come from an official Q&A fan meeting at Ospreys.

Nothing I heard from that says wales cannot host the final nor scotland

LordDowlais wrote:

TJ wrote:What are we being told that makes this so?

It did come from an official Q&A fan meeting at Ospreys.

It actually came from a Pro12 official named Tom McCormack.

We also have to be realistic and accept that following the incidents with the Welsh regions last year it's hard to envisage the individual regions having won a vote on who gets to host the final and therefore receives the income. At one stage it appeared they may not exist and certainly not within the Pro12 for much longer.

I can hear the meeting now when the tender went out.

- Ok, so what are the criteria for this finals business?

We need an 18,000 seater Stadia.

- Check

We need to have 2 5-star hotels for the teams.

- We'll find them.

We need to pay a guarantee £100,000 up front to host the final.  The profits get split amongst the clubs - the two finalists get a bit more.

- Err, how many seats could we sell if Ospreys were in the final?

15-20,000 probably.  

- And, err, what about if Ospreys weren't in the final?

Emmmmm......

- Right, we won't be going for that then.   Let's see how the other b*ggers get on this year, and then see if it's worthwhile.

But what'll we tell the fans, boss?

- make up something about ludicrous criteria and not having enough 5-star hotels for the blazers...

Ok boss.

- right then, is there any of that Xmas pudding left over from the party?

LordDowlais wrote:
Because if we are to believe what we are being told Wales would never meet the criteria for hosting a Pro12 final.

Maybe the interested Welsh regions need to work to improve their infrastructure and commercial viability rather than the criteria being reduced to accommodate them, if criteria is the issue.

rodders wrote:Maybe the interested Welsh regions need to work to improve their infrastructure and commercial viability rather than the criteria being reduced to accommodate them, if criteria is the issue.

Or perhaps the fact that the criteria was made so that only Ireland could meet it is the issue.

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:Maybe the interested Welsh regions need to work to improve their infrastructure and commercial viability rather than the criteria being reduced to accommodate them, if criteria is the issue.

Or perhaps the fact that the criteria was made so that only Ireland could meet it is the issue.

Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:Maybe the interested Welsh regions need to work to improve their infrastructure and commercial viability rather than the criteria being reduced to accommodate them, if criteria is the issue.

Or perhaps the fact that the criteria was made so that only Ireland could meet it is the issue.

If Ireland is the only commercially viable place then that is not the issue, and if Glasgow made the shortlist then its not true either.

Maybe the factual statement would be that none of the welsh regions currently meet the criteria because they can't guarantee a financial return for the league - in which case unless you expect the rest of us, Ireland in particular, to subsidize the regions to host a final, I would see the individual regions at fault and not the pro12.

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:Maybe the interested Welsh regions need to work to improve their infrastructure and commercial viability rather than the criteria being reduced to accommodate them, if criteria is the issue.

Or perhaps the fact that the criteria was made so that only Ireland could meet it is the issue.

Yet again, no Welsh boys present at any meeting to protest that the IRFU were doing a Blatter on the criteria and ramrodding things through without their approval.

It don't compute Lord.  It never has.

But at least the sun is shining. Cold as f**k but sunny so perhaps we'll all get out in the sun now from here on in and refresh our tired brains over the off-season period....

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.
Swansea. No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.Yes.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then NO Welsh region can meet the criteria unless it is changed. Neither can Scotland. I do not know about Italy, but I doubt they would be putting a bid in anytime soon.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

Well Ulster had to do it. Qualified as league leaders in 2012/13 and had to play the final in the RDS against Leinster.

Since have redeveloped Ravenhill to 18k plus, otherwise we wouldn't even be at the races.

You expect that Wales should be exempt from any criteria?

rodders wrote:Since have redeveloped Ravenhill to 18k plus, otherwise we wouldn't even be at the races.

Yes, but they did not have to build five star hotels as well to go with their extra 3000 seats.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then [A] Welsh region can meet the criteria [THAT WAS] changed.

 

But the one that could didn't want to risk losing money by doing so.  Personal risk assessment choice.

Let's cut to the chase here...how far away is Liberty stadium from Cardiff with all the hotels?

In a modern world I'd consider both to be in the same vicinity.

I hope the criteria is changed. But I will say it again, for the last time. If Tom MacCormack is telling the truth, then NO WELSH REGION WOULD HAVE MET THE CRITERIA.

SecretFly wrote:Let's cut to the chase here...how far away is Liberty stadium from Cardiff with all the hotels?

In a modern world I'd consider both to be in the same vicinity.

About 40 to 50 miles away.

A vicinity is a vicinity Unless you want to make excuses. Ospreys didn't bid for other reasons than not meeting criteria, isn't that what we've been told over and over?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Let's cut to the chase here...how far away is Liberty stadium from Cardiff with all the hotels?

In a modern world I'd consider both to be in the same vicinity.

About 40 to 50 miles away.

That's a vicinity in these parts. You all make a big fuss about the Epic distances between places down there in the south of Wales. Some people here, and I'm sure over there, commute much longer distances each day to go to work. A person wants a place to lie down in at night. He doesn't need to see the bloody stadium as he sleeps.

SecretFly wrote:A vicinity is a vicinity Unless you want to make excuses.  Ospreys didn't bid for other reasons than not meeting criteria, isn't that what we've been told over and over?

We are being told that Swansea did not bid for it on moral grounds, but they would not have got it anyway as they did not meet the criteria.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.
Swansea. No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes. No
Swansea.Yes.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then NO Welsh region can meet the criteria unless it is changed. Neither can Scotland. I do not know about Italy, but I doubt they would be putting a bid in anytime soon.

Cardiff also has Cardiff City Stadium which Wales Online state was a viable alternative if the region chose to bid

SecretFly wrote:That's a vicinity in these parts. You all make a big fuss about the Epic distances between places down there in the south of Wales. Some people here, and I'm sure over there, commute much longer distances each day to go to work. A person wants a place to lie down in at night. He doesn't need to see the bloody stadium as he sleeps.

The vicinity in this criteria is the same city I would have thought.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:A vicinity is a vicinity Unless you want to make excuses.  Ospreys didn't bid for other reasons than not meeting criteria, isn't that what we've been told over and over?

We are being told that Swansea did not bid for it on moral grounds, but they would not have got it anyway as they did not meet the criteria.

crap ...

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That's a vicinity in these parts. You all make a big fuss about the Epic distances between places down there in the south of Wales. Some people here, and I'm sure over there, commute much longer distances each day to go to work. A person wants a place to lie down in at night. He doesn't need to see the bloody stadium as he sleeps.

The vicinity in this criteria is the same city I would have thought.

I wouldn't.  There you go again, making South Wales seem like the Australian outback

marty2086 wrote:Cardiff also has Cardiff City Stadium which Wales Online state was a viable alternative if the region chose to bid

Yes you are correct, but we would have all the hassle of negotiating with Cardiff FC and making sure that there is no football conflicting with the rugby final and the what not, and as somebody has said earlier, on this thread, football stadiums are a no go, so we might as well rule them out from the start.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:A vicinity is a vicinity Unless you want to make excuses.  Ospreys didn't bid for other reasons than not meeting criteria, isn't that what we've been told over and over?

We are being told that Swansea did not bid for it on moral grounds, but they would not have got it anyway as they did not meet the criteria.

crap ...

Do not tell that to me, tell it to the Pro12 officials.

SecretFly wrote:I wouldn't. There you go again, making South Wales seem like the Australian outback

Again.Do not tell that to me, tell it to the Pro12 officials.

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:Since have redeveloped Ravenhill to 18k plus, otherwise we wouldn't even be at the races.

Yes, but they did not have to build five star hotels as well to go with their extra 3000 seats.

Pretty sure the bid was team Belfast, not just Ulster rugby - maybe the regions should work closer with the community, wru, Welsh assembly, local authorities and other stakeholders to improve their bidding position rather than begrudge others that have their house in order.

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:Since have redeveloped Ravenhill to 18k plus, otherwise we wouldn't even be at the races.

Yes, but they did not have to build five star hotels as well to go with their extra 3000 seats.

Belfast built those to go with their growing tourist industry and to accommodate events like the Giro and Glasgow had the Commonwealth games

Wales has hosted RWC games before and will do so this year, they hosted the Ryder Cup 5 years ago, the European Super Cup this year and had part of the Ashes series 6 years ago so how the hell do they not have the infrastructure and accommodation to facilitate the Pro12 final?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I wouldn't.  There you go again, making South Wales seem like the Australian outback

Again.Do not tell that to me, tell it to the Pro12 officials.

No, I'm telling Ospreys that...the Region that got cold feet when they looked at the figures and agreed to let the silly boys in Ulster take the potential hit.... but blame them ever since for hosting something they shouldn't have been let host.....

The wheel keeps a turnin'.

marty2086 wrote:Wales has hosted RWC games before and will do so this year, they hosted the Ryder Cup 5 years ago, the European Super Cup this year and had part of the Ashes series 6 years ago so how the hell do they not have the infrastructure and accommodation to facilitate the Pro12 final?

You have one thing in common with ALL those events, they were all held in and around Cardiff. Cardiff has plenty of 5 star hotels, you could even include the Celtic Manner which is just outside Newport.

http://www.ospreyssupportersclub.co.uk/statement-from-the-osc-on-the-pro12-decision-to-choose-belfast-to-host-the-final/

Heres an actual 'report' on the whole thing and Tom McCormack, one thing is evident that the Welsh like a good moan and the writer fails to grasp how the whole system of broadcasters works and believes that all teams should play the same number of Sunday games (reminds me of some posters)

Tom McCormacks email address is included and he welcomes questions apparently, tom@pro12rugby.com

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.
Swansea. No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.Yes.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then NO Welsh region can meet the criteria unless it is changed. Neither can Scotland. I do not know about Italy, but I doubt they would be putting a bid in anytime soon.

But do you think it's rigged that way?

On Tom McCormack's comment about 5* hotels. I would need to read the Q&A again, but I don't think the comment on 5* hotels actually came from McCormack. From memory it looks that way, but it was the Ospreys representative that mentioned the 5* criterion for hotels, not McCormack. Like I said though, I would need to read it again.

My own view is that the 5* hotel requirement is bunkum. It might not be the product of someone's imagination, but I doubt very much that it would prevent any Region hosting a final.

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.
Swansea. No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.Yes.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then NO Welsh region can meet the criteria unless it is changed. Neither can Scotland. I do not know about Italy, but I doubt they would be putting a bid in anytime soon.

But do you think it's rigged that way?

On Tom McCormack's comment about 5* hotels. I would need to read the Q&A again, but I don't think the comment on 5* hotels actually came from McCormack. From memory it looks that way, but it was the Ospreys representative that mentioned the 5* criterion for hotels, not McCormack. Like I said though, I would need to read it again.

My own view is that the 5* hotel requirement is bunkum. It might not be the product of someone's imagination, but I doubt very much that it would prevent any Region hosting a final.

There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys.

The hotels were for the teams and there doesn't seem to be anything about the vicinity

marty2086 wrote: two 5 star hotels for the two finalists

I love the fact that Cardiff has hosted a world cup final, but there are doubts as to whether the Pro12 deem it a suitable enough place to hold a pro12 match

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote: two 5 star hotels for the two finalists

I love the fact that Cardiff has hosted a world cup final, but there are doubts as to whether the Pro12 deem it a suitable enough place to hold a pro12 match

Where did you get that idea? If anything its Cardiff who deemed it not suitable by not bidding

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote: two 5 star hotels for the two finalists

I love the fact that Cardiff has hosted a world cup final, but there are doubts as to whether the Pro12 deem it a suitable enough place to hold a pro12 match

Where did you get that idea? If anything its Cardiff who deemed it not suitable by not bidding

The Pro12 told one of the Welsh regions.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote: two 5 star hotels for the two finalists

I love the fact that Cardiff has hosted a world cup final, but there are doubts as to whether the Pro12 deem it a suitable enough place to hold a pro12 match

Where did you get that idea? If anything its Cardiff who deemed it not suitable by not bidding

The Pro12 told one of the Welsh regions.

That's ok, Im convinced

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Do you honestly believe that, LD? Have you thought through all available evidence and come to the conclusion that the final is rigged to be hosted in Ireland? This is a serious question.

Its as serious as Rodders telling us to improve our infrastructure.

But think about it for a second. If we are to believe what Tom McCormack is telling us, then lets look at it:-

5 Star hotels in the vicinity of the stadium.

Cardiff. Yes.
Swansea. No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

18000 seater stadium.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.Yes.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.

Is your stadium an unusable national one.

Cardiff.Yes.
Swansea.No.
Llanelli.No.
Newport.No.


So if we are to believe Tom McCormack, then NO Welsh region can meet the criteria unless it is changed. Neither can Scotland. I do not know about Italy, but I doubt they would be putting a bid in anytime soon.

But do you think it's rigged that way?

On Tom McCormack's comment about 5* hotels. I would need to read the Q&A again, but I don't think the comment on 5* hotels actually came from McCormack. From memory it looks that way, but it was the Ospreys representative that mentioned the 5* criterion for hotels, not McCormack. Like I said though, I would need to read it again.

My own view is that the 5* hotel requirement is bunkum. It might not be the product of someone's imagination, but I doubt very much that it would prevent any Region hosting a final.

There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys.

The hotels were for the teams and there doesn't seem to be anything about the vicinity

My point is that I don't think this is a direct quote from McCormack. It isn't clear. If you look at the bit's in bold through to "our team":


Tenders

The first question raised was in regards to the following: Why has a final venue been arranged mid season, when there are still 9 rounds remaining, and not as in past seasons where the highest placed finalist has home advantage?

Meetings were held at the start of the season when schedules were discussed. It was agreed that 4 days turnaround would not be enough time to plan for a final. Therefore, a decision was made to announce a named venue in advance.

All members of the Pro12 were invited to tender with a Christmas period deadline to put these tender applications together. The tenders had to be submitted by 1st Jan 2015.

There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys.

In regards to the advisement that the Ospreys had not tendered for the final, we felt it was important to speak to them about this and get their views as to why no tender was submitted:

Ospreys have advised us they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put our team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage’.

The financial commitment necessary to host the final is substantial. Whilst Ospreys financial performance has improved, and are now able to make calculated gambles, they don’t consider that they are in a position to take the kind of risk required. It’s not in the best interests of the business to do so.

Any bid for a final at the Liberty would have to be made in conjunction with the Stadium Management Company and Swansea Council. Ospreys advised they will assess the success or not of this year before considering whether it is in the Ospreys interest or not for future years to make a joint bid."

I may not be reading it correctly, but it does appear that the Ospreys supporters rep' is detailing his take on a conversation with McCormack. I do know that quotes from McCormack are provided elsewhere, but I'm not so sure that's true for this section.
McCormack may have told the representative that two 5* hotels are required, but I don't think it's a direct quote. As you say though, even if it is a direct quote, nothing is mentioned about the hotels having to be within a certain distance from the stadium.

Why would the Ospreys supporters club make up such a spurious, outlandish fact about two 5 star hotles needed for the 2 teams? That's bare faced lying if it's not true.