Carl Froch - an appreciation

The curtain has come down on one of the great British boxing careers. Carl Froch has undoubtedly chosen the right time to call it a day and I believe that it is appropriate to take a little time to appreciate a man who has generally been a credit to his sport.

There have been fighters in the post-war era from these shores who possessed more pure boxing talent, for all that Froch was a world amateur medallist. Buchanan, Conteh, Laing, Calzaghe, Khan, others, possibly as well. There have been boxers who were readier to perfect a "man of the people", "likeable rogue" or "cheeky chappy" persona and so charm more fans onto their side but Hatton and Cooper are not at Froch's level of achievement. However, there have been very few who have made so much of what they had, who were prepared to fight opponents from the top shelf of their division so consistently or whose results against such opposition were so often adorned with the letter W.

Froch, to me, would rank fifth amongst all British and Irish fighters since the war. Only Lewis, Buchanan, Calzaghe and Hamed can claim a higher place; men such as Conteh and Honeyghan were terrific fighters but they were unable to make their sparkle last as long as Froch's perhaps more basic approach to his craft. In an all-time sense, I make Froch 11 in the UK lists - we can argue about precise placings but we cannot dispute that this was one of the most significant boxers that we have ever produced.

Forget the sometimes awkward public pronouncements and the occasional graceless moments - when he wasn't on his soap-box, Froch always seemed to be a thoughtful, articulate and engaging personality to me. I'm sure that he'll be well suited to life as a boxing pundit/summariser, where I doubt that he will try to flannel his audience about a fighter's performance just because he is British. Intelligent enough to retire with his health and wealth intact, Froch deserves all our respect as a boxer. I wish him a long and happy retirement.

not sure froch handled the fame well and it went to his head a bit from a personality point of view. but i dont realy care what they do out of the ring that much. we live in a age where all fighters think the only way to build a fight is to trash talk and there opponents are their worse enemy

i will remember froch well, even with his fighting in front of 80,000 nonsense. because mainly he was in cracking fights and fought everybody out there. pascal, kessler, groves 1 are some of the best world title fights you will see with a brit involved, and as a fan i cant ask too much more. i watch boxing to be entertained from what happens in the ring, and froch didnt let fans down from that point of view

Posted my views on the man on the is he over rated thread, still think they sum up my feelings on him about as well as they can so I'll repost them here.

Over rated is one of those terms that is very much dependant on where you are setting the bar, as the captain has alluded to if you are saying Froch has a record that stands comparison with the true elite, the Langford’s, Ali’s Greb and Armstrong etc then clearly it falls someway short. However, as already mentioned if you want to compare it with the best of the last 30 years from these shores I think it holds its own. None of this matters to me though. I’ll acknowledge Froch can come across a bit vain and insecure in interviews but I care little. I look for certain qualities in a fighter, one is a willingness to face the best, one is a willingness to travel to achieve this. in both of these respects Froch ticks the boxes.
 
Whatever caveats you choose to put against this such as the super six forced him to etc matter little to me, it is about outcome not process. If in all that you can throw in that said fighter has been involved in a few cracking match ups along the way all the better. Yet again Froch can claim this is the case in his regard. For me when the curtain is finally brought down on his career his record, career and fights are all things I will remember with no small degree of affection.

Carl Froch was a superb entertainer, and fought the best in his division, and always gave the fans something to relish. His CV is littered with the best names in the division, and perhaps the only blemish will be the Andre Ward defeat, which I feel in years from now people will always say "But Ward was the best SMW in his era".

However, like or loathe the man, Carl Froch will always be remembered fondly for his heroics in the ring, whether that be his last minute stanza against Pascal, his wars with Kessler, his dismantling of Lucian Bute or his continued feud with The Saint.

It really has been a Rocky-type career, with many different types of foe, ranging from the tough Canadian, through to the battling Dane (once foe who became good friend), or the man sausage-sure young gun slinger in Groves. At times Froch could have been more tactile, but in substance he always delivered, I missed very few of his fights, even from the early days fighting The Grim Reaper Robin Reid to Brian Magee.

In boxing we can tend to be over analytical, but if we take a step back and really look at The Cobras career, he provided big world title fights, that entertained the masses, with a huge mix of different opponents, always determined to give it a go and always in shape for the challenge ahead, in an era shrouded with boxers avoiding the best, speculation about continued drug taking, and some fighteres as dull as dishwater, surely all we really want is more fighters to be like Carl Froch. The boxing world would truely be a better place and a more blossoming sport in that respect.

Great fighter and thoroughly agree about him making the most of his abilities.

Always showed a lot of heart and was as tough as they come. Could never count Froch out. In a 12 round fight, he was always dangerous.

I like him and laugh when he mentions the 80,000 people at Wembley. He obviously rubs people up the wrong way, but you can't please everyone

His last fight will be on the cobbles vs JC.

sausage-sure*******

lol - I worte C**k-sure, now it reads "man sausage"?

lol...made my day anyway.

I'm glad he's had a job on sky as he'll instantly improve the standard there. As others have said, Froch is enjoyable and gives a good insight when he's not talking about himself.

Career wise he's gone out with his last fight being at Wembley stadium in front of 80,000. Doesn't get better than that and he did all that could be asked of him with his pick of opponents and challenges.

I remember watching him when he fought Magee and thought that he'd get found out in painful fashion when/if he reached world level due to him keeping his left so low. Never really happened though and fair play to him. I've grown to like him over the past few years when he could talk about his own career and not trying to get a rise from JC. He's a legend now in his own right for me.

Great fighter, one of the most enjoyable Brits I can remember watching.

JC will always be the monkey on his back though. I have him closer to JC than others, as I put little stock in heavily padded records, but if Froch had got the win in Kessler I then for me they would have drawn level.

Think that'll always wrankle him.....

I enjoyed his fighting style, and particularly enjoyed him wiping the floor with that smug get George Groves. I feel that Froch didn't have the stars in his era to fight that would have given him a more permanent reputation - but when your future fights are deGale or Hopkins then it's best to go out at the top. Good career, not Hall of Fame worthy but ruddy good and we'll miss his pre-fight interviews.

I think that'll get a ry smile out of him toppy.

Congrats on your retirement mate. You were a irritating personality and inexplicably, a whiny bitter bitchbut aside fr that you gave us some great fights and boxing needed someone like you willing to fight all and sundry.

Enjoy your retirement, enjoy your hard earned wealth and above all keep ya bird safe from serialDave.

Amen

Froch's retirement saddens me about as much as Raheem Sterling leaving Liverpool....both talented but not brilliant yet utterly convinced that they belong in the highest echelons despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. However as I'm a decent bloke I'll wish Carl well and say no more about him

Rachel, on the other hand........

Great entertainment and pleasure to witness a few of his bouts live.

But can anyone guess how long it takes him to mention 80,000 at Wembley in his autobiography?

Say what you will about his opinion of himself in interviews, Froch was rarely in a dull fight. He was always great fun to watch and it's true that he never ducked a challenge. Granted he didn't win them all, but boxers rarely do. He got his tactics wrong in the Kessler fight and was utterly out-thought and out-fought against Ward. Credit must be given to him as he won another belt in his next fight after Ward by poleaxing Bute, taking his "0" in the process.

Certainly not the greatest, but definitely one of the best to watch. I shan't miss his interviews, but I will miss his fights. And of course, his Mrs.  

Froch's approach was a breath of fresh air. His marauding, bruising approach, one built on an unusual toughness and never-say-die mentality would qualify him as a poster boy for British boxing.

I’d rate Froch slightly ahead of Hamed of the modern Brits. Hamed was “the man” at featherweight – something Froch never achieved at super middleweight – yet his ultimate demise at the hands of Barrera was a hammer blow to his reputation.

Froch, who beat a better standard of opposition, managed to avenge one of his two defeats (against Kessler) and was more competitive against both Kessler and Ward in the fights he lost than Hamed managed to be against Barrera.

For me, the likes of Taylor, Pascal, Dirrell, Abraham, Bute, Kessler and Groves are a better set of results than the likes of Robinson, Vasquez, Medina, Soto, McCullough, Bundu, Ingle etc. Hamed may have been far an away more talented, yet Froch made far more of what he had.

I managed to catch him live only once – against Dirrell in a ho hum fight (which was a shame) but it will still be one to tell the kids. That entrance song will take some beating. His personality was grating and his style was gauche enough to make you itch at times but Froch was all business in there. Good enough to eclipse Benn and Eubank – settling just behind Calzaghe in the pantheon of British super middles.

Scottrf wrote:
But can anyone guess how long it takes him to mention 80,000 at Wembley in his autobiography?

If the next volume is as dull as the previous one I hope never to find out.

Would've been interesting to see how much higher his profile would've been if he'd jumped across to Matchroom at an earlier stage. He was a relative latecomer due to fighting under Hennessy brand who couldn't expose a film.

As for his career. Pretty sure I've nailed my colours to the mast in the past, but have him in the top 3 in terms of modern British greats, and I have him ahead of JC at #2 and behind Lewis at #1. His two losses came when on the road, one against a guy who if he ever fought nowadays would be pretty much untouchable. Can forgive the Kessler loss due to the run of elite fights he went through against a division that was more heavily stacked than when JC was around.

I wonder what the title of his autobiography will be? Simply "80,000" ? As long as there's picture of Rachel in there am sure Dave will be buying it.

Seldom in a dull fight. His resilience and marauding style made him fun to watch as you always knew there would be chances for the other guy as Froch wasn't exactly one to dance like a fairy. With other British guys dancing around each other and other guys in their division he wa a fresh of breath air in his approach to taking on whoever and wherever.

Happy retirement.

Coxy001 wrote:Would've been interesting to see how much higher his profile would've been if he'd jumped across to Matchroom at an earlier stage. He was a relative latecomer due to fighting under Hennessy brand who couldn't expose a film.

As for his career. Pretty sure I've nailed my colours to the mast in the past, but have him in the top 3 in terms of modern British greats, and I have him ahead of JC at #2 and behind Lewis at #1. His two losses came when on the road, one against a guy who if he ever fought nowadays would be pretty much untouchable. Can forgive the Kessler loss due to the run of elite fights he went through against a division that was more heavily stacked than when JC was around.

I wonder what the title of his autobiography will be? Simply "80,000" ? As long as there's picture of Rachel in there am sure Dave will be buying it.

Seldom in a dull fight. His resilience and marauding style made him fun to watch as you always knew there would be chances for the other guy as Froch wasn't exactly one to dance like a fairy. With other British guys dancing around each other and other guys in their division he wa a fresh of breath air in his approach to taking on whoever and wherever.

Happy retirement.

Why don't you forgive him the Ward loss too and have him no1 as our greatest ever.

Coxy001 wrote:I have him ahead of JC at #2 and behind Lewis at #1.

If you have him ahead of JC at #2 doesn't that mean Froch is #2? And JC no longer is? Quite the quandary.

RanjitPatel wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:Would've been interesting to see how much higher his profile would've been if he'd jumped across to Matchroom at an earlier stage. He was a relative latecomer due to fighting under Hennessy brand who couldn't expose a film.

As for his career. Pretty sure I've nailed my colours to the mast in the past, but have him in the top 3 in terms of modern British greats, and I have him ahead of JC at #2 and behind Lewis at #1. His two losses came when on the road, one against a guy who if he ever fought nowadays would be pretty much untouchable. Can forgive the Kessler loss due to the run of elite fights he went through against a division that was more heavily stacked than when JC was around.

I wonder what the title of his autobiography will be? Simply "80,000" ? As long as there's picture of Rachel in there am sure Dave will be buying it.

Seldom in a dull fight. His resilience and marauding style made him fun to watch as you always knew there would be chances for the other guy as Froch wasn't exactly one to dance like a fairy. With other British guys dancing around each other and other guys in their division he wa a fresh of breath air in his approach to taking on whoever and wherever.

Happy retirement.

Why don't you forgive him the Ward loss too and have him no1 as our greatest ever.

Yeah and read the rest where I've said that although the loss in question is outweighed by the fighters he took on in a division that was fairly stacked in comparison to the late 90s/early parts of the 00s.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on the final Froch/Hamed judgement call, haz, but would accept that it's pretty close. Personally, I give a slight edge to the Hamed CV, which also includes men like Johnson and Kelley, but feel that there is little enough in it. Hamed is 4 and Froch 5 in my post-war list; I have Hamed at 10 and Froch 11 in the all-time pecking order, so it's hard to argue too strenuously with your opinion.

I do feel, however, that Froch's loss to Kessler in their first fight is one of the most compelling reasons to place him behind Calzaghe. Yes, Carl had to travel and yes it was a particularly gruelling journey because of the Icelandic volcano, but the verdict could not seriously be doubted by anyone who saw the fight. Calzaghe may have beaten Kessler on home soil but it was a younger, better, more dangerous version of the man who defeated Froch. Styles make fights, I'm aware, and I also realise that Carl gained his revenge on a much more shop-worn Kessler, but in these games of comparisons, common opposition has to be an important determining factor. Throw in the fact that I feel that Calzaghe had the style to beat Froch maybe eight times out of ten and the one-sidedness of Froch's defeat to Ward (no shame in it but he was taught the truth about his place in the super-middleweight pecking order) and I'm happy placing Joe two spots ahead of Carl since the war and five ahead in the all-time league table.

Like Calzaghe, slipping out the back door  without really wrapping up business fully and completely.

You can't throw Golovkin at Froch as Gennady is a middleweight, you can't throw Bernard at Froch as Hopkins is operating at light -heavy, but yes you can throw DeGale at Froch.

That rivalry you could say has quietly been brewing just as with Froch and Calzaghe, so I do hold it against Froch as I did with Calzaghe. I guess I just like to see the odd post-prime performance or two at the end of a distinguished career.

Obviously not up there with the true elite like the Langfords, Grebs and Robinsons but yes did enough to eclipse  Benn and Eubank to take second place at super-middle behind Calzaghe in Britain.  Can't speak for Kenny Buchanan as I don't really know his career, but ahead of Naz for me and behind Lewis.

Gave me a few thrilling moments, the first six rounds against Pascal were some of the best I've ever seen, the comeback against Taylor punctuated by the last-minute stoppage gave me palpitations,  the destruction of Bute with its fever-pitch atmosphere.

I may be contradicting myself a touch here but what a shame not to go out with Golovkin, an exclamation mark if you will to finish his career. Would have been more fitting somehow, then would have been less ready to throw DeGale at him.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Like Calzaghe, slipping out the back door  without really wrapping up business fully and completely.

Honestly, this is just nonsense. Degale has only really emerged as a contender at the back end of his career. Froch is 38, has been in a lot of gruelling fights against good contenders. There's always one more fight. Enough fighters retire too late, I think we have to applaud him for getting out on top. He's made his money, why risk his health any longer? Especially with his style.

Think throwing Degale at Froch is harsh and then some. After getting past Groves Froch was looking for a specific type of fight, namely a fight that allowed him to scratch the Vegas itch. Degale is a decent fighter but given his age you can understand a fight against a domestic rival would not really give Carl the fire in his belly, particularly as he has just dispatched a domestic rival in his last fight (decent attendance as well apparently). Also the fight would certainly not have ended up in Vegas so would have left that particular itch unscratched.
 
I would certainly not throw Froch into the mix as a criticism of Calzaghe and will also not do so when it comes to Degale and Froch.

Huge fan, glad he retired on his terms, he was out of the ring far too long to have a high profile comeback.

Enjoy your retirement Carl, thanks for the memories

Rowley wrote:Think throwing Degale at Froch is harsh and then some. After getting past Groves Froch was looking for a specific type of fight, namely a fight that allowed him to scratch the Vegas itch. Degale is a decent fighter but given his age you can understand a fight against a domestic rival would not really give Carl the fire in his belly, particularly as he has just dispatched a domestic rival in his last fight (decent attendance as well apparently). Also the fight would certainly not have ended up in Vegas so would have left that particular itch unscratched.
 
I would certainly not throw Froch into the mix as a criticism of Calzaghe and will also not do so when it comes to Degale and Froch.

Agree, Froch beat the up and comer in Groves and gave us the rematch to ensure there was no more controversy, even though he took a pasting in the first fight.

There will always be someone coming up calling him out, but he proved himself against the very best and only lost to the absolute elite.

If Froch beat Degale then its the winner of Fielding vs Smith and the list goes on.

Would have liked to seem him tango with Golovkin, but he doesn't need to unless he needs the money, legacy is secure and he will be remembered as a British great

People keep saying harsh to throw DeGale at him but I know fewer harsher environments than the analysis of boxing greatness.

Did Duran have to fight Barkley? No of course not, nobody could have cared less. what could Barkley possibly do for Roberto? And now of course it's one of the Panamanian's most pleasing performances.

I don't agree there would always be someone else, what makes it different is the rivalry had been BREWING. And for that reason alone, it can be held against them.

But it's only nitpicking at the end of the day.

BoxingFan88 wrote:

Rowley wrote:Think throwing Degale at Froch is harsh and then some. After getting past Groves Froch was looking for a specific type of fight, namely a fight that allowed him to scratch the Vegas itch. Degale is a decent fighter but given his age you can understand a fight against a domestic rival would not really give Carl the fire in his belly, particularly as he has just dispatched a domestic rival in his last fight (decent attendance as well apparently). Also the fight would certainly not have ended up in Vegas so would have left that particular itch unscratched.
 
I would certainly not throw Froch into the mix as a criticism of Calzaghe and will also not do so when it comes to Degale and Froch.

Agree, Froch beat the up and comer in Groves and gave us the rematch to ensure there was no more controversy, even though he took a pasting in the first fight.

There will always be someone coming up calling him out, but he proved himself against the very best and only lost to the absolute elite.

If Froch beat Degale then its the winner of Fielding vs Smith and the list goes on.

Would have liked to seem him tango with Golovkin, but he doesn't need to unless he needs the money, legacy is secure and he will be remembered as a British great

For me Smith is the next generation whereas DeGale is overlapping- part of this generation just, but really and mostly of the next generation. Froch does have a rivalry with him, further indication that DeGale is part of Froch's generation.

Degale is 9 years younger than Froch. The 'rivalry' is nothing more than him being mandatory to his belt and calling him out. In short as much of a rivalry as anyone else that comes along next.

DeGale not more of a rival to Froch than Smith or Fielding???

Ok...

Like have you ever heard any banter between Froch and Smith or Fielding...

'As anyone else who comes along next', not now...

There no one left at super-middle for Froch after DeGale.

Simple as that really.

Surprised.

I think Froch needed 1 more big fight to prove himself an ATG. A fight against Ward, GGG would suffice but he has chosen to retire.

No problems with his decision because he has had a stellar career but did not go out on top and he was 1 fight away from doing so.

Should have done everything to get Ward even if it meant fighting Ward in his own living room still great fighter and I have enjoyed watching him over the years.

Goodluck Carl with your life after boxing you have been a credit.

You say that now. Maybe GGG moves up, maybe Smith or Fielding get a couple of big wins.

There's always someone else.

Have to agree although reluctantly in this instance that Froch needed one more.

But did he believe he could beat Ward or Golovkin?

One suspects not, it has to be said.

Herman Jaeger wrote:There no one left at super-middle for Froch after DeGale.

Simple as that really.

As Froch said, there would always be the next big thing and how long would that last for? There'll always be someone calling him out.

And DeGimp does little for his legacy other than Froch beating another of the next big things. DeGimp hasn't got the engine to fight Froch for 12 rounds and when he starts rolling along the ropes like we all know he does it'd be curtains. But anyway, DeGimp has no real fan base and as such it made little business sense. At least Groves had the cockney thing going on, DeGimp's mother even supports the other guy when he fights!

Herman Jaeger wrote:Have to agree although reluctantly in this instance that Froch needed one more.

But did he believe he could beat Ward or Golovkin?

One suspects not, it has to be said.

I suspect he was not very confident in beating Ward but that was the 1 big fight to put the doubts to bed. I am sure Froch had enough to lay it all on the line for 1 night even if he lost he would garner some respect and it would not harm his career. Still he can hold his head up high but at the end of the day he has finished second best in his division with 1 fight to take the top spot once and for all.

Fair play to him on a fantastic career.

I saw him against Dirrell, which was the worst of his high profile fights sadly.

Shame he didn't get to fight in Vegas but fighting JCC Jr would of got him no praise and his final fight will take some beating.

In saying that, Froch not fighting Degale is not really any different than Calzaghe not fighting Froch so hopefully puts that matter to bed.

For ever more, Froch will look at big fights and be able to say "it's not quite 80,000 at Wembley though is it!"

Froch ain't beating Ward, any time any place, so fail to see what one more 'L' would add to his record/standing.

And as Scott says, by the time JDG is dealt (barely a rival even then), someone else will step into the void, quite possibly GGG. So that's a silly argument also.

I'll hold my hand up and say I'm divided on a DeGale fight.

Either and most likely Froch stops him mid to mid-late to expose DeGale's dislike for pressure or DeGale can cause him more problems than anyone in his career bar Ward and nick a very tight sd.

C'mon admit it,  you had to be a little bit impressed by DeGale in his last fight, even his biggest haters. And was able to conserve energy for the last two rounds. A mature, well-rounded performance as well as an exciting one.

I'd love to see it. But Froch has earnt his retirement, fair play to him.

Good luck on your retirement Frochy, I wish you all the best. Just promise me one thing, that you stay retired and I mean that in a good way.

Ward simply too good, he retired at the right time, and can now tell stories/lies on Sky Sports about how he chased Ward for the rematch, but he turned it down on and ducked him......

Herman Jaeger wrote:I'll hold my hand up and say I'm divided on a DeGale fight.

Either and most likely Froch stops him mid to mid-late to expose DeGale's dislike for pressure or DeGale can cause him more problems than anyone in his career bar Ward and nick a very tight sd.

C'mon admit it,  you had to be a little bit impressed by DeGale in his last fight, even his biggest haters. And was able to conserve energy for the last two rounds. A mature, well-rounded performance as well as an exciting one.

Yeah I for one am not a big fan of DeGale, but was impressed with his last outing, developing nicely IMO.

Thanks for some entertaining fights and brilliant nights in front of the TV.
Thanks for flying the flag.
Thanks for the whole Wembley experience.
Thanks for the FM arena, that will always be my fondest memory.

I always admire people who make the most of what they have and I don't think he could have squeezed out an ounce more.
The personality did grate me at times but I'd never miss a fight when the guy involved gives it their all.
An excellent career, a great role model and will be remembered fondly.

FM Arena is great. Pretty much as good seats as you can get for Pascal and Bute. About £60 and £80. Similar in somewhere like 02 or MEN you're paying £250+

Echo the sentiments..

Credit to Boxing in general and a beacon for Brit boxing...

Scottrf wrote:Great entertainment and pleasure to witness a few of his bouts live.

But can anyone guess how long it takes him to mention 80,000 at Wembley in his autobiography?

Surely that'll be the title of his autobiography!

I think Froch is getting out at the right time. Problem with Froch needing one more fight against GGG or Ward to cement his greatness, is that he's not great and would probably lose those two fights convincingly. Beating Groves in front of 80 fousand at Wembley is as good as it gets for Froch realistically.

Great Fighter, One of the best chins in the biz, one of the best engines and very good technical ability. I think his defence and speed let him down at times...

Froch fought the very best, beat most of them and excited us in the process. Not the greatest talent, but he possessed a truly great will to win.

Highlight: watching him come back to beat Taylor on American soil. That might have been in a U.S. backwater with only a few thousand in attendance, but it was pure drama. Yeah he let his latter fame and fortune go to his head a little, but WERE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!

I was.

Retire well.