Ireland v Canada, 19 September

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IRELAND v CANADA
19 September 2015
KO: 14:30 BST
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) & Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

6 Played 6
5 Won 0
1 Drawn 1
0 Lost 5
226 Points 77

B. Recent Form

Sat 30 May 1987
Canada 19 - 46 Ireland

Sun 30 Nov1997
Ireland 33 - 11 Canada

Sat 17 Jun 2000
Canada 27 - 27 Ireland

Sat 8 Nov 2008
Ireland 55 - 0 Canada

Sat 23 May 2009
Canada 6 - 25 Ireland

Sat 15 Jun 2013
Canada 14 - 40 Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

[tbc]

CANADA


1. Hubert Buydens – (Unattached/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
2. Ray Barkwill – (Unattached/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
3. Doug Wooldridge – (Lindsay RFC/Ontario Blues) Lindsay, ON
4. Brett Beukeboom – (Cornish Pirates) Lindsay, ON
5. Jamie Cudmore, Captain – (Clermont Auvergne) Squamish, BC
6. Kyle Gilmour – (Rotherham Titans/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
7. John Moonlight – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
8. Aaron Carpenter – (Cornish Pirates/Ontario Blues) Brantford, ON
9. Gordon McRorie – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
10. Nathan Hirayama – (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
11. DTH van der Merwe – (Scarlets) Victoria, BC
12. Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
13. Ciaran Hearn – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
14. Jeff Hassler – (Ospreys) Okotoks, AB
15. Matt Evans - (Cornish Pirates) Maple Bay, BC

16. Benoit Piffero – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC
17. Djustice Sears-Duru – (Oakville Crusaders/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
18. Andrew Tiedemann - (Unattached/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
19. Jebb Sinclair – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Fredericton, NB
20. Richard Thorpe – (London Welsh) Beckenham, England
21. Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
22. Liam Underwood – (Balmy Beach RFC/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
23. Conor Trainor – (UBCOB Ravens/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC

Unavailable for selection:

Tyler Ardron – (Ospreys) Lakefield, ON
Harry Jones – (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) West Vancouver, BC

kunu wrote:Thought Payne was very good- I don't think the try he gave away would have happened in a tight game- the wing gambled on a try for Ireland vs a try for Canada. I don't think you should operate assuming the opposition defence will act irrationally. Earls didn't show me anything new. Good at running out wide, which we knew after his first season with Munster- he hasn't shown that has built too much upon that foundation though. As I have said umpteen times on this board- I  think he's too small to start internationally. He was hit a couple of times and was bossed in the collision when he didn't have forward momentum. I don't think Ireland can afford to play too many of those players.

I have to disagree,I think he's really bulked up and looks much stronger right now although it might have cost him a bit of pace,he's still quick but just doesn't look lightening fast anymore.I want to see him playing on the wing for us as he's a proven try scorer and if he hadn't been so unlucky with injury I think he'd be threatening BoDs try record by now.

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Notch wrote:Actually I think its a game which highlights why I think you are wrong. Because the amount of times the ball went through his hands; its extremely hard to imagine Earls playing 13 in that kind of game plan. He can pass, but he's just not that player. He just not that kind of thinker about the game. He's an instinctive player. It's the way Payne reads the game that constantly impresses me.

I say again :
Kicked way too late when Ireland's boys could have got away.
Kicked the ball to a wing, gifting Canada a Try
Ran sideways, removing an overlap
Kicked needlessly and out on the full

Yeah Payne read that game well...

 

What is your obsession with Payne? He is better than Earls in centre. He is rated at centre by Schmidt, by Henshaw and by Darcy, to name but a few. You know better than they do, of course. If only Joe would bring you in as coach...

I simply feel that Payne is a far better 15 than 13, I think that Henshaw is Irelands best 13 with Earls close second. I watch rugby, played rugby and form my opinions based on that.

See thats what I mean. He kicked the ball out on the full; the space was clearly there, the execution was poor. I think he did make a few mistakes in this game, but you've also got his ability there to take the ball and quickly give it, the lines he runs, just the basics of the position. I thought he pretty well demonstrated his passing ability today, and we've all seen his carrying and tackling. If you're only looking for the negatives thats also you'll see, but I would urge you to rematch the game and look at how he executes the basics of his role as a pivot in that midfield; he is as capable of carrying the ball as he is distributing it.

As you say that was one of his looser games and yet the evidence he is our best option continues to mount up in spite of that. To me it is very surreal that he has to be defended despite his performances there.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

kunu wrote:Thought Payne was very good- I don't think the try he gave away would have happened in a tight game- the wing gambled on a try for Ireland vs a try for Canada. I don't think you should operate assuming the opposition defence will act irrationally. Earls didn't show me anything new. Good at running out wide, which we knew after his first season with Munster- he hasn't shown that has built too much upon that foundation though. As I have said umpteen times on this board- I  think he's too small to start internationally. He was hit a couple of times and was bossed in the collision when he didn't have forward momentum. I don't think Ireland can afford to play too many of those players.

I have to disagree,I think he's really bulked up and looks much stronger right now although it might have cost him a bit of pace,he's still quick but just doesn't look lightening fast anymore.I want to see him playing on the wing for us as he's a proven try scorer and if he hadn't been so unlucky with injury I think he'd be threatening BoDs try record by now.

Disagree, but fair enough. I'm sure he will play a few more in the next couple weeks. We'll see!

Notch wrote:See thats what I mean. He kicked the ball out on the full; the space was clearly there, the execution was poor. I think he did make a few mistakes in this game, but you've also got his ability there to take the ball and quickly give it, the lines he runs, just the basics of the position. I thought he pretty well demonstrated his passing ability today, and we've all seen his carrying and tackling. If you're only looking for the negatives thats also you'll see, but I would urge you to rematch the game and look at how he executes the basics of his role as a pivot in that midfield; he is as capable of carrying the ball as he is distributing it.

As you say that was one of his looser games and yet the evidence he is our best option continues to mount up in spite of that. To me it is very surreal that he has to be defended despite his performances there.

Notch, I will say it again. Payne is a very good player but the lines he runs and the options he takes are that of a 15, not of a 13.

Well Ireland put a marker down today and sent out an ominous warning to the rest of the contenders. Well played Ireland.

I very much disagree with that, if you want to see a great centre line look at the one he ran in the build-up to, I think, Cronins try when he was just short. Similar to the try he got against Scotland. His trail line off Madigan was pretty good too.

He has the rugby intelligence to vary the lines he runs, which is I think the main reason Schmidt has used him as our stop-gap 13 while Henshaw and others come through. Lets face it, we were all very worried about how we would deal with BODs retirement but he's come in and provided a lot of solidity in that position. He's been able to adapt to whatever role we've needed from him.

I don't think he's the long term future, but I think people should be fair and judge him by the same standards other players are judged by.

eirebilly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Notch wrote:Actually I think its a game which highlights why I think you are wrong. Because the amount of times the ball went through his hands; its extremely hard to imagine Earls playing 13 in that kind of game plan. He can pass, but he's just not that player. He just not that kind of thinker about the game. He's an instinctive player. It's the way Payne reads the game that constantly impresses me.

I say again :
Kicked way too late when Ireland's boys could have got away.
Kicked the ball to a wing, gifting Canada a Try
Ran sideways, removing an overlap
Kicked needlessly and out on the full

Yeah Payne read that game well...

 

What is your obsession with Payne? He is better than Earls in centre. He is rated at centre by Schmidt, by Henshaw and by Darcy, to name but a few. You know better than they do, of course. If only Joe would bring you in as coach...

I simply feel that Payne is a far better 15 than 13, I think that Henshaw is Irelands best 13 with Earls close second. I watch rugby, played rugby and form my opinions based on that.

Oh, you played rugby. You even watch rugby. I'm impressed. None of us can match your experience which gives you a unique insight into how the game is played. If only Schmidt, Henshaw and Darcy had played the game. Better still, if only they had watched it.

I will leave you to your obsession.

That was an exceptional line in the lead up to the Cronin try, I will give you that.

People seem to think that I do not like Payne as a player. I do, I really do, I just think that everything about his game screams 15. He just looks a little out of place at 13 to me. His defence is excellent but his decision making and awareness screams 15 to me.

I think that he would on par (if not better) than Kearney as a 15, which puts him in the top 5 15's in the world in my opinion. Hard to see how much of a hater I am if I rate him so high...

Munchkin wrote:

Oh, you played rugby. You even watch rugby. I'm impressed. None of us can match your experience which gives you a unique insight into how the game is played. If only Schmidt, Henshaw and Darcy had played the game. Better still, if only they had watched it.

I will leave you to your obsession.

Sorry, unnecessary rudeness on my part.

Only in Ireland could such drama generate following a win!

Given the chances of us reaching a consensus over the great 2015 Payne/Earls controversy I think I am just going to go and enjoy Japan giving it a rattle against the Boks

Well done Ireland. That was super impressive and great to watch after that horrid stop start Eng, Fiji match. Some lovely back play and the cohesion between backs and forwards was nicely balanced. Good full use of the width of the field as well.

Pleasure to watch, although it was Canada, Ireland showed why they're capable of winning thus tournament. Best performance so far bar Georgia's defence v Tonga.

eirebilly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Oh, you played rugby. You even watch rugby. I'm impressed. None of us can match your experience which gives you a unique insight into how the game is played. If only Schmidt, Henshaw and Darcy had played the game. Better still, if only they had watched it.

I will leave you to your obsession.

Sorry, unnecessary rudeness on my part.

No need to be sorry. I was probably a little sarcastic, which is unusual for me

It's just that almost every time I read your comments it's about your issue with Payne playing at centre. He probably would be better playing at FB, but who do Ireland replace him with?

Anyway, I'm away to watch more rugby. Japan is actually giving SA a game  

Laters

Congrats Ireland. First win under the belt, and impressive too.

Notch wrote:I very much disagree with that, if you want to see a great centre line look at the one he ran in the build-up to, I think, Cronins try when he was just short. Similar to the try he got against Scotland. His trail line off Madigan was pretty good too.

He has the rugby intelligence to vary the lines he runs, which is I think the main reason Schmidt has used him as our stop-gap 13 while Henshaw and others come through. Lets face it, we were all very worried about how we would deal with BODs retirement but he's come in and provided a lot of solidity in that position. He's been able to adapt to whatever role we've needed from him.

I don't think he's the long term future, but I think people should be fair and judge him by the same standards other players are judged by.

Geordan Murphy stated during the game he thought Payne had more to his game than we've seen so far from him in an Ireland shirt, from seeing him play for the Blues at 13 he does have more in his locker and seems to be limiting his game to how hes being asked to play

Just back from the game. Highlight for me, the big TV cuts to Sexton and O'Connell the fella behind me says " now there are two intense Weirdo's " made me chuckle.
Good game, Henderson is a flipping beast of a man
Good first run out I felt

Good win, Ireland

Ireland were clinical during their purple patches and defended well when Canada came back into the game. Canada looked ok with ball in hand but Ireland were able to cut them to pieces whenever they went wide. Canada never seemed to get to grips with the switch pass or loops that Ireland seem to enjoy!

Canada win the facial fuzz award though. Some seriously World Class 'taches and beards on show

Canada still have the brilliantly named John Moonlight. He took a big hit and the TV3 commentator said he was 'Ill Met by Moonlight'. I thought that was pretty good.

obviously a Bogarde fan.

https://youtu.be/tUb9lpcpv24?t=36s

Not sure why there are still these big conversations over individual players. The way we play under Joe is based on a set system which clearly the players buy into. I don't think it matters a damn who plays where as All the as squad are of a certain standard.

High praise in the Sydney Morning Herald for Henderson:

5. Ireland regain their identity. They were unconvincing in their warm-up games, but for 40 minutes at least against Canada Ireland rediscovered some of the traits that have made them so successful under coach Joe Schmidt. There were the wraparound plays in midfield, disciplined running lines and excellent kicking games from both No.9 Conor Murray and No.10 Johnny Sexton. In addition, they have unearthed a future British and Irish Lion in second-rower/back-rower Iain Henderson of Ulster. He may have the look of a university student up for a laugh, but he has that physicality you can't coach, particularly as a ball carrier. Ireland not so much put a marker down as reminded everyone that they can play.

True.  They reminded folks too that warm-up games are warm-up games.  Just looking at Paulie's face coming out of the tunnel, you knew this team were in a different zone now.

This is the WC - blips might happen, disasters might happen - it might all go to seed again, but Ireland are here to give it an honest shot.  Warm ups weren't.

R. Kearney has hopefully blown a few cobwebs off his more explosive game.  Seems like he wants to prove the doubters (me included) wrong.  Good man

D. Kearney is still oh so average.... when others don't pass to him right!!  Get it sorted others - Dave has things to do with that ball and can't be waiting on slackers....

Henderson is just the right mood at just the right time.  Plus - with him doing his aggressive ball carrying, that in a real sense releases the possibility for renewed explosiveness from O'Brien and Healy.  The opposition will be forced to wonder from where it's going to come.

All in all, just what we needed and just what many of us were calling for.  Yes, it was Canada - we're not getting ahead of ourselves, but our guys at least played like they knew the fact that it was Canada.  They didn't play around with them, didn't get involved in a needless forward based tussle game.  They upped the gears and allowed themselves to stretch their legs and introduce a little tension-easing adrenalin, which they'll have needed after all the intense training and bookwork analysis sessions.

They might pull it in now again a little against Romania but the players have to be let off the bit now and again to keep morale high.  Like racehorses, they have to be let race to keep the nervousness down.

One thing I noticed at the game was how much work Dave k does off the ball. He covers miles of pitch looking for work.

Dave Kearney is turning into an excellent player. His run in for his try yesterday was excellent and I feel he owns that 14 shirt now.

I have watched Earls pass to Rob Kearney for his try over and over again and think that was an outstanding pass showing awareness and accuracy, quality.

Henderson, as I said yesterday, was my MoTM, thought that he was immense and he formed a great partnership with POC.

Fitz also surprised me and he looked very good playing 12.

eirebilly wrote:Dave Kearney is turning into an excellent player. His run in for his try yesterday was excellent and I feel he owns that 14 shirt now.

I have watched Earls pass to Rob Kearney for his try over and over again and think that was an outstanding pass showing awareness and accuracy, quality.

Henderson, as I said yesterday, was my MoTM, thought that he was immense and he formed a great partnership with POC.

Fitz also surprised me and he looked very good playing 12.

Yeah it was a beauty,really good to see that kind of clinical finishing and I was a little surprised Kearney make the correct pass to set Earls off early and then that he was able to keep pace with him to receive the return.

Very impressive first outing with good performances across the board.

Henderson definitely was the standout performer but really impressed with Earls and K2 and great to see Sexton on form.

Disappointed to see the usual xenophobic waffle about Payne who had another impressive game in the center.

It's too early to get carried away - Canada might just be rubbish - but looking at some of the usual suspects stutter - SA look all over the place, NZ not invincible and England got away with robbery against Fiji.

However you can only play who's in front of you and that was a good job - the players looked very relaxed and confident post game, in contrast to some of the other sides which is good to see.

Looks like there'll be a good bit of rotation next up and then all systems go for the the last 2 crunch games... said before if we win the group I believe we'll make the final and then it's all to play for...

"Disappointed to see the usual xenophobic waffle about Payne who had another impressive game in the center."

Me too Rodders especially when his perfromances have stood up against the haters. He made a couple of mistakes, one that gave the Canadians a try but they were hardly threatening to beat us.

I was impressed with Fitzy's effort at 12 and he grew into the game, Earls, another player that get flack had another very solid performance. I'd have no worries if we need to use them as cover.

Henderson was simply immense and still only a kid. He's going to be a half decent player when he grows up Stevie Ferris is right though, he should be played at 6 where he gets to use his pace and power to a greater effect.

Anyway, first box ticked, onwards to glory!!

on the downside..........................

Oh come on, it's Monday!  Joe always does 'Downsides' on Monday............................ so stop whining!


...we left about five tries there through sloppiness, over-throws and unfortunate marksmanship...
...against better sides (certainly against France) that kind of largesse could haunt us.

Of course it doesn't matter what game or who it is against, you'll always see these ghost tries that might have been scored if only A, B or C happened.  But still - let's tone it all down and admit the product still needs a good deal of honing.  

And for me, no matter who plays in the next game, I hope the tempo is only increased.  A strong, fast blow-out for most of the 80 - to test the lungs, to condition the lungs and to practice, practice, practice the practicality of accuracy at speed.
It'll probably be our last chance before we bed down to the more serious stuff of robust defending and incremental cautious rugby.  That first game was needed - I mean the method.  Guys were sucking for diesel in the end but they'll be tested for diesel much more ferociously when we hit France.

I don't think we've much to worry about with regards France and Italy.

Argentina present the biggest hurdle at the minute although Australia haven't shown their hand yet.

Still see us or Australia winning the tournament and see us as favourites if Sexton stays fit.

Not sure. France looked like they know how to play rugby again,

carpet baboon wrote:Not sure. France looked like they know how to play rugby again,

Disagree. Italy just showed once again they are the least intelligent team in rugby. I really don't understand how they can do so many silly things. They have a lot of good players but whether it's coaching or captains they are very badly run. Also a lot of lazy slow track backs in defense. Conpare that attitude to Georgia or Japan and you'll see what I mean. All that means France won by about what you would expect. I expect us to hammer Italy. And scrape France just cause we never win against France by a lot. Arg on the other hand look like a pretty smart team that plays to its strengths. I think we can best them 8/10 times but if they are at their best it is very tough. No one else has impressed me of the big teams. Not second tier teams really. It's the 3rd tier teams that have really put their hands up in this World Cup and I'm delighted there will probably be no absurd cricket scores to be had.

Fair point wolf. I just worried about the French. We should destroy them.but never do. They hang on and have some players who can manage to do something with nothing.
Is huget out?

rodders wrote:I don't think we've much to worry about with regards France and Italy.

Argentina present the biggest hurdle at the minute although Australia haven't shown their hand yet.

Still see us or Australia winning the tournament and see us as favourites if Sexton stays fit.

I don't believe for a second that New Zealand were under the cosh from Argentina. They gave themselves a tough game to get the juices going - as in physicality rather than run-around stuff I expect them to do with their next opponents.

France, I don't care how bad they are considered to be structurally. They have fitness. They ain't idiots. They have history. They can play a game of unstructured chance still that few can match on instinct. And they'll probably have Parra on from the start. Best 9 in the world in my opinion. France will make us sweat at some point in that game if not the entire 80.

Picamoles, Spedding and Basterau running over people excepted France have nothing much to offer other than scrummaging teams to death.

I don't think they look fit at all and defensively they are lazy and disorganized around the ruck. Huget is a massive loss for them as he can score from anywhere.

I think we'll match them in the scrum - cut them to pieces around the ruck and beat them handily enough.

Eddie Jones is talking about a QF for Japan - and he should too as on that evidence they can win the group, a far tougher one than ours. If Japan can believe in themselves we should too.

Pete330v2 wrote:"Disappointed to see the usual xenophobic waffle about Payne who had another impressive game in the center."

Me too Rodders especially when his perfromances have stood up against the haters. He made a couple of mistakes, one that gave the Canadians a try but they were hardly threatening to beat us.

I was impressed with Fitzy's effort at 12 and he grew into the game, Earls, another player that get flack had another very solid performance. I'd have no worries if we need to use them as cover.

Henderson was simply immense and still only a kid. He's going to be a half decent player when he grows up Stevie Ferris is right though, he should be played at 6 where he gets to use his pace and power to a greater effect.

Anyway, first box ticked, onwards to glory!!

I thought other than a silly kick to a Canadian player Payne was fine. In general I am against capping non Irish players as I personally dont think playing for Ireland will mean as much to them as someone who grew up here and is Irish. That said I think Payne has shown plenty of commitment since he has arrived in the team so I think he earned his stripes a while ago.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Dave Kearney is turning into an excellent player. His run in for his try yesterday was excellent and I feel he owns that 14 shirt now.

I have watched Earls pass to Rob Kearney for his try over and over again and think that was an outstanding pass showing awareness and accuracy, quality.

Henderson, as I said yesterday, was my MoTM, thought that he was immense and he formed a great partnership with POC.

Fitz also surprised me and he looked very good playing 12.

Yeah it was a beauty,really good to see that kind of clinical finishing and I was a little surprised Kearney make the correct pass to set Earls off early and then that he was able to keep pace with him to receive the return.

Dave Kearney has been a very fine player for years now. Nice try too. Nice to see the Kearney bros both score.

Taylorman wrote:Well done Ireland. That was super impressive and great to watch after that horrid stop start Eng, Fiji match. Some lovely back play and the cohesion between backs and forwards was nicely balanced. Good full use of the width of the field as well.

Pleasure to watch, although it was Canada, Ireland showed why they're capable of winning thus tournament. Best performance so far bar Georgia's defence v Tonga.

Interesting though didnt think we were that great. I expect that this was written before Japan's masterclass too.

Key to beating France is to be solid in the set pieces and stop them boshing over the gain line. Payne and
Henshaw made a big difference this year in stopping the big French runners.

profitius wrote:Key to beating France is to be solid in the set pieces and stop them boshing over the gain line. Payne and
Henshaw made a big difference this year in stopping the big French runners.

100% agree.

Whilst I was slightly disappointed with Canada, Ireland looked very sharp. Then again I was sat pretty much on the roof of the MS on Saturday so all looked like insects lol

Great atmosphere in the fanzone on the Arms Park with all the Irish guys watching Japan beat the Boks and the one sole Japanese guy who was lifted shoulder high and paraded around the ground at the final whistle to applause off us all. Great Day

Personally I think Canada might be the worst team at the world cup at the moment. I don't think we have learned much from our win at all.

GG,

They were poor but you guys stuck to your guns went through moves, paces etc and looked good in the process.

I think we will have a better idea after the Italy game as to where we are at. Still though job done.

All we really learned is something that in reality most already knew, Dave Kearney the best winger in Ireland right now.

GunsGerms wrote:All we really learned is something that in reality most already knew, Dave Kearney the best winger in Ireland right now.

Well I think we also learned that Keith Earls can actually pass and run in a straight line at the same time.

So that's either a new skill he's developed or he was just plain greedy when he bombed all those tries over the years .

Not sure I agree re Earls. IMO he has always been a really good player.

One thing I will say is that it is absolutely ridiculous that Romania have to play France on Wednesday and then Ireland on Sunday.

We will absolutely murder them if they have to deal with such a turnaround. 40 - 0 Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:50-0 Ireland.

Jared Payne ruined my prediction. Damn you Payne.

We learned that Rob can actually and actively seek to avoid the first point of contact - again. I wonder will it last against tighter, tougher, better sides. I still worry that it mightn't.