England v Wales, 26 September

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:52 am

ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND
England v Wales, 26 September Emily_10

[tbc]

WALES
England v Wales, 26 September Perdit10

[tbc]

by whocares Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:15 am

by Barney McGrew did it Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:42 am

by maestegmafia Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:43 am

Lets get the Uruguay game out of the way first...

by GavinDragon Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:44 am

I will not enjoy watching this game - regardless of the result!

by majesticimperialman Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:51 am

maestegmafia wrote:Lets get the Uruguay game out of the way first...

I agree totally. thumbsup

why is this game even being debated yet? Headscratch

by maestegmafia Sun 20 Sep 2015, 8:57 am

In the aftermath of Friday nights game the English newspapers seemed particularly harsh on England's performance. When interviewed post match Lancaster still seems racked with indecision in selection as well as worries about England's set piece and breakdown, areas that were poor in their warm up games.

"We’ve never said we were going to pick the same team week in, week out, we were a bit lateral towards the end of the first half and certainly at the start of the second half,” said Lancaster. “We needed some energy from the bench and they all brought a bit more punch to the performance and we got quicker ball. Sam (Burgess) did well but equally Mako and Billy Vunipola did well, Owen (Farrell) did well, Wiggy (Wigglesworth) did well at the breakdown, Launchbury had an excellent 25 minutes as well. It was a collective, I think?"

"The forwards were a bit frustrated with the breakdowns, scrum and lineout,” said Lancaster. “They are the forwards’ bread and butter and we’ve got some work to do to improve in that area."

by fa0019 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:02 am

How Lancaster thinks Lawes was a better bet than Launchbury I will never know.. maybe he was trying to ease Launchbury in after injury. If its a selection choice he's mad.

Dan Cole should be dropped IMO... hasn't played well for 2 years.

by maestegmafia Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:07 am

fa0019 wrote:How Lancaster thinks Lawes was a better bet than Launchbury I will never know.. maybe he was trying to ease Launchbury in after injury. If its a selection choice he's mad.

Dan Cole should be dropped IMO... hasn't played well for 2 years.

Reading the Telegraph and Guardian websites it sounds like Cole and Lawes is considered undroppable???

Similarly maybe Tom Youngs, Ben Youngs, Brad Barritt and the flankers, none of whom have ever really impressed me enough to consider that they should be unequivocally selected when fit.

by fa0019 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:12 am

maestegmafia wrote:
fa0019 wrote:How Lancaster thinks Lawes was a better bet than Launchbury I will never know.. maybe he was trying to ease Launchbury in after injury. If its a selection choice he's mad.

Dan Cole should be dropped IMO... hasn't played well for 2 years.

Reading the Telegraph and Guardian websites it sounds like Lawes is considered undroppable???

Shows their true worth... or that they're dragons wrapped in roses???

He was s***. Anyone who says he's a big tackler is having a laugh. Has he ever done that without blindsiding a guy (usually backs). He is a very good tackler don't get me wrong, he is super athletic and can chase down the fastest of backs... but he's not this beast everyone says he is, he's no Jason White, Jerry Collins etc.

He can't ruck like Launchbury, can't carry like Launchbury, Launchbury's tackling game is equal if not better and his covering of wide spaces is ridiculous. Launchbury for me is the best 4 in rugby after Retallick and his potential is >. His consistency is ridiculous, ever seen him play a bad game???

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:15 am

I'm going to spend next Sunday either incredibly euphoric or severely depressed...

by maestegmafia Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:30 am

I don't think Wales will let their fans down, they will play at their best and if that is good enough then we will win.

I don't think Twickenham has a big psychological edge over the team as most of them have won there a few times now.

I don't think we wil get much of an idea how Wales are really planning to play until the England game.

Reading reports on garlands press conference it seems as though the Uruguay match is a training run out, another warm up game, rather than being treated as a full blown knock out test.

Whether Gatland is right or wrong to do that we will learn later this afternoon.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:45 am

"......most of the team have won there a few times now"

Really?

Just looking above Wales have only beaten England twice at HQ in over 7 years.

by lostinwales Sun 20 Sep 2015, 9:54 am

Last 2 years home and away in the 6N against a Wales not ravaged by injuries the games have been tough but never really in doubt. It is quite possible that Gatland has raised Wales' game and everyone is talking up the idea that England are not playing as well, but odds will be on an England victory

by ChequeredJersey Sun 20 Sep 2015, 10:34 am

Would love to see a Danny Care involved against Wales

My England team would be:

Brown
Watson
Joseph
Barritt/Burgess (burgess would add more than Barritt did on Friday and Roberts is direct which probably suits Burgess' positional naivety but it's still a hard call, I'm inclined to think Barritt had a bad day at the office)
May
Dare I say it, Farrell?
Wriggles or Care
Vunipola
Robshaw
Wood
Launchbury
Lawes
Wilson if fit
Youngs (on last chance possibly)
Marler (on last chance definitely)

Probably. Would like to see Slade or Nowell on the bench

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Sep 2015, 10:49 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Lets get the Uruguay game out of the way first...

I agree totally. why is this game even being debated yet?

Because (a) this is England's next game, (b) it's less than a week away and (c) from my experience, Wales and England fans like to get the insults/excuses/moral victories in early.

by Cumbrian Sun 20 Sep 2015, 10:54 am

Most of this Welsh squad has won a ‘few’ times at Twickenham eh? Christ, these lads must have been playing a long time! Wales’ most recent wins at Twickenham have been 2012, 2008 and...1988! Only three in the whole squad have beaten England twice (Hook was involved in 2008 but not 2012). In fact over half of the current Welsh squad have NEVER played in a winning side at Twickenham.

I’ll admit that Twickenham doesn’t guarantee an England win, but if you won’t admit that it is a factor you are either lying to yourself or being disingenuous. I reckon every side in world rugby has a better home record than away record.

by englandglory4ever Sun 20 Sep 2015, 11:38 am

England will want to send the Welsh back over the border with their tails between their legs. Where are Wales going to get their points from now Halfpenny is out? They don't score many tries and without a kicker it looks grim for Wales.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 11:40 am

Cumbrian wrote:Most of this Welsh squad has won a ‘few’ times at Twickenham eh? Christ, these lads must have been playing a long time! Wales’ most recent wins at Twickenham have been 2012, 2008 and...1988! Only three in the whole squad have beaten England twice (Hook was involved in 2008 but not 2012). In fact over half of the current Welsh squad have NEVER played in a winning side at Twickenham.

I’ll admit that Twickenham doesn’t guarantee an England win, but if you won’t admit that it is a factor you are either lying to yourself or being disingenuous. I reckon every side in world rugby has a better home record than away record.

James Hook is not in the Wales squad???

Of the 23 likely to be named on the weekend, Jenkins, Owens, AWJ, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, North, Roberts, Cuthbert, L.Williams, P.James, J.Tipuric and S.Williams were all in the 23 when Wales won in Twickenham.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 11:40 am

englandglory4ever wrote:England will want to send the Welsh back over the border with their tails between their legs. Where are Wales going to get their points from now Halfpenny is out? They don't score many tries and without a kicker it looks grim for Wales.

??? Wales have a kicker

Dan Biggar is one of the best in Europe.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 20 Sep 2015, 11:41 am

Dan Biggar isn't a kicker or anything is he.

by lostinwales Sun 20 Sep 2015, 11:41 am

englandglory4ever wrote:England will want to send the Welsh back over the border with their tails between their legs. Where are Wales going to get their points from now Halfpenny is out? They don't score many tries and without a kicker it looks grim for Wales.

They do still have a very good kicker in Biggar. We have shown the discipline in the past to not give penalties away and we are going to have to go against current form to do so again. But we are good at closing down Wales' main runners and we can unlock their very strong defense.

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Sep 2015, 12:04 pm

Neil Jenkins gave an interview earlier this week pointing out that Halfpenny and Biggar have almost identical percentage success rates for their clubs. I wouldn't worry about that.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 20 Sep 2015, 1:05 pm

The big thing about Halfpenny is his clutch kicking ability. Biggar hasn't proven that yet, so it is a loss but in Pool matches not as much as all that

by Duty281 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 1:21 pm

Should be a comfortable win for England, but they need to somewhat improve on how they did against the Fijians. I'm hoping Care will start, but I don't think Lancaster will make too many changes. Big game for the English front-row.

by Cumbrian Sun 20 Sep 2015, 1:34 pm

wales606 wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Most of this Welsh squad has won a ‘few’ times at Twickenham eh? Christ, these lads must have been playing a long time! Wales’ most recent wins at Twickenham have been 2012, 2008 and...1988! Only three in the whole squad have beaten England twice (Hook was involved in 2008 but not 2012). In fact over half of the current Welsh squad have NEVER played in a winning side at Twickenham.

I’ll admit that Twickenham doesn’t guarantee an England win, but if you won’t admit that it is a factor you are either lying to yourself or being disingenuous. I reckon every side in world rugby has a better home record than away record.

James Hook is not in the Wales squad???

Of the 23 likely to be named on the weekend, Jenkins, Owens, AWJ, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, North, Roberts, Cuthbert, L.Williams, P.James, J.Tipuric and S.Williams were all in the 23 when Wales won in Twickenham.

Oops, I though he was.

I didn't say that none of the Welsh squad had won at Twickenham, I was arguing with Maestegmafia who said 'most' of the Welsh squad had won 'a few' times at Twickenham, which they haven't. Just under half the current Welsh squad have won once and a small number have won twice.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 1:37 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
wales606 wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Most of this Welsh squad has won a ‘few’ times at Twickenham eh? Christ, these lads must have been playing a long time! Wales’ most recent wins at Twickenham have been 2012, 2008 and...1988! Only three in the whole squad have beaten England twice (Hook was involved in 2008 but not 2012). In fact over half of the current Welsh squad have NEVER played in a winning side at Twickenham.

I’ll admit that Twickenham doesn’t guarantee an England win, but if you won’t admit that it is a factor you are either lying to yourself or being disingenuous. I reckon every side in world rugby has a better home record than away record.

James Hook is not in the Wales squad???

Of the 23 likely to be named on the weekend, Jenkins, Owens, AWJ, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, North, Roberts, Cuthbert, L.Williams, P.James, J.Tipuric and S.Williams were all in the 23 when Wales won in Twickenham.

Oops, I though he was.

I didn't say that none of the Welsh squad had won at Twickenham, I was arguing with Maestegmafia who said 'most' of the Welsh squad had won 'a few' times at Twickenham, which they haven't. Just under half the current Welsh squad have won once and a small number have won twice.

Ah, I see,

Still don't think either team is going to be particularly fearful, but will be confident they can win and I doubt there will be more than a score in it either way/

by TJ Sun 20 Sep 2015, 1:47 pm

Has the irish ref cheated yet?

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:04 pm

TJ wrote:Has the irish ref cheated yet?

by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:14 pm

Bit keen posting this now Wink

. Maybe we can guess what the Wales team will be for this game though, so that's worthy of discussion.

by majesticimperialman Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Bit keen posting this now . Maybe we can guess what the Wales team will be for this game though, so that's worthy of discussion.

I guess it will depend on any injuries today. If they are none then those who have been left out of the team today will be playing next week. for a guess any way.

by Sidestep Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:22 pm

If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win. More star quality. But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England. Even more so in a world cup.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:26 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Bit keen posting this now . Maybe we can guess what the Wales team will be for this game though, so that's worthy of discussion.

I guess it will depend on any injuries today. If they are none then those who have been left out of the team today will be playing next week. for a guess any way.

Probably

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Luke Charteris
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Gareth Davies
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. Alex Cuthbert :/
15. Liam Williams

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Tom Francis
19. Jake Ball (maybe B.Davies)
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Lloyd Williams (maybe M.Phillips)
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Hallam Amos

by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:28 pm

606, I think that's the team.

by lostinwales Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:34 pm

Sidestep wrote:If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win. More star quality. But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England. Even more so in a world cup.

Maybe, but that would be bucking the trend of the last 2 years and England are at home.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 20 Sep 2015, 2:56 pm

Sidestep wrote:If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win. More star quality. But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England. Even more so in a world cup.

I'm not sure that's true. Not much at all between the quality of players, and you ca argue which way it swings either way. Also individual ability less important tahn how the team works together

by TJ Sun 20 Sep 2015, 4:03 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Sidestep wrote:If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win. More star quality. But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England. Even more so in a world cup.

I'm not sure that's true. Not much at all between the quality of players, and you ca argue which way it swings either way. Also individual ability less important tahn how the team works together

England have far greater variety in attack and faster back 3. However their cohesion as a team is not great. England slight favourites.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 20 Sep 2015, 4:31 pm

On reflection, is maker fewer changes than I said above. Think Billy for Morgan is a definite though

by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Sep 2015, 5:03 pm

We won't have any players by next week by the looks of it. Ridiculous Sad

.

by majesticimperialman Sun 20 Sep 2015, 5:08 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:We won't have any players by next week by the looks of it. Ridiculous .

Just how serious are your injuries that you picked up today.......will any of the players be avalaible for next week or not.

by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Sep 2015, 5:22 pm

We'll know shortly I guess, but I'd say Allem is a certain to miss out.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 5:27 pm

Yeah, looks like Allen is out.

Will have to wait and see about L.Williams, P.James, D. Lydiate and possibly Samson Lee.

by lostinwales Sun 20 Sep 2015, 5:56 pm

wales606 wrote:Yeah, looks like Allen is out.

Will have to wait and see about L.Williams, P.James, D. Lydiate and possibly Samson Lee.

And I guess the other problem with Williams is that even if his leg is OK he will have had pretty much zero game time prior to the match

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:01 pm

lostinwales wrote:
wales606 wrote:Yeah, looks like Allen is out.

Will have to wait and see about L.Williams, P.James, D. Lydiate and possibly Samson Lee.

And I guess the other problem with Williams is that even if his leg is OK he will have had pretty much zero game time prior to the match

Exactly,

He will need to come in firing, only really seen Warburton come back from a long injury and perform straight away.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:04 pm

Sidestep wrote:If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win. More star quality. But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England. Even more so in a world cup.

Looking through the likely Welsh team, I am looking for any Welshman that would make the starting 15 for England, at 8 possibly although we are strong there, North possibly but Watson is class. Roberts is too one dimensional for this England team.

I am not trying to cause a row, but England have a style that scores tries, Wales have a style that looks to cause mistakes and then us the boot. I would struggle to call many of the likely starting XV "Star Quality" Faletau, North and Roberts (in a limited way) are the only stand outs. Others are names from the past that may once have been good, but are struggling these days.

England have a back three that scares the pants off most opposition, OC that can make a lot out of a little, three different combos at half back that all work well together to suit whatever game plan Stewie comes up with and two packs which although they haven't fired yet can take just about anyone else apart.

Plus we have Gods gift to RU, or will be by next year, the mighty Sam Burgess who if picked might just show Roberts that running straight at people is not such a good idea.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:10 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Plus we have Gods gift to RU, or will be by next year, the mighty Sam Burgess

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:28 pm

Apparently Lydiate is okay, but Aaron Jarvis is injured.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:30 pm

wales606 wrote:Apparently Lydiate is okay, but Aaron Jarvis is injured.

Would never wish injury on anyone but he will be no loss at all, what Gatland was thinking by using him as L/Head cover today god only knows as he struggles at tighthead.

Cory Allen has been ruled out torn hamstring.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:30 pm

In fairness if Roberts run straight at Burgess he'll find himself moving backwards very quickly, it's the main reason i'd pick him instead of Barritt, completely neutralises the size and strength factor.

by wales606 Sun 20 Sep 2015, 6:33 pm

Jarvis, James and Lee all injured.

If two of them aren't going to be fit for next week then Gatland has to call people up and remove them from the squad Sad

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