England v Wales - Part 2, 26 September

  
ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV1

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), B Barritt (Saracens), S Burgess (Bath), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), T Youngs (Leicester), D Cole (Leicester), G Parling (Exeter), C Lawes (Northampton), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens)

Replacements: R Webber (Bath), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Northampton), J Launchbury (Wasps), J Haskell (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

WALES

Liam Williams (Scarlets); G North (Northampton), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Harlequins), H Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons); D Biggar (Ospreys), G Davies (Scarlets); G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), S Baldwin (Ospreys), T Francis (Exeter), B Davies (Wasps), A-W Jones (Ospreys), D Lydiate (Ospreys), S Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: K Owens (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), S Lee (Scarlets), L Charteris (Racing 92), J Tipuric (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), R Priestland (Bath), A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues).

So it begins (again)

Wish I knew what was up with our scrum, I can only assume it's form as the players have been very solid in the past.

Maybe we don't give Hartley the credit he deserves at scrum time.

mid_gen wrote:Wish I knew what was up with our scrum, I can only assume it's form as the players have been very solid in the past.

Maybe we don't give Hartley the credit he deserves at scrum time.

Maybe that - maybe Youngs is the weak link that is so often claimed. Maybe Fiji messing up the Australian scrum has helped to put things in perspective.

24 hours til we find out now

mid_gen wrote:Wish I knew what was up with our scrum, I can only assume it's form as the players have been very solid in the past.

Maybe we don't give Hartley the credit he deserves at scrum time.

Maybe its been a ploy designed for this very game to come?

Roundtree says he expects a few tricks from Wales and Gatland. So trickery is part of the underlying tensions between big sides.

Maybe form is indeed down. But maybe it isn't. There has been no need to expose the full truth until tomorrow. Both sides will need to show a lot to get their win. Any shady stuff up until now will have to be unwrapped. They'll drive each other to show their full force game.

As for statistics, Wales have never beaten England when I was playing for them. An absolute truth, undeniable and total spherical objects. That's statistics for you.

I think the Welsh front row is going to struggle and as a result they are going to be on the back foot. I hope they do put through a few grubbers and chips, there is no one better playing at the moment than Mike Brown at picking up these kicks and running them back with a vengeance. With the pace of May and Watson following him up, havoc for any defence.

Wales downfall will be Gatland telling Biggar and co to play up and unders. Brown takes these balls and England counter attack. Liam Wiilliams will bring in more running options though

I do not like to try an predict the scores of these game's England v Wales that is?

I do think that with the injury to Half penny Wales will have to try and go for Tries rather than penalties. Although Biggar is a good kicker he is not in the kicking range of Half penny.

Let's hope it is a decent game and their are "NO" Injuries too either side,

majesticimperialman wrote:Let's hope it is a decent game and their are "NO" Injuries too either side

Yes I hope neither team has any injuries* and it is a great match. Lets hope both sides try to run the ball and it lives up to the hype


* This policy can have an exception made for Courtney Lawes

I don't care if they run or not.  If other engagements are to be taken into account - this will be a fight and a half - the biggest fight so far from sides of reasonably similar high level ability.
I don't think it'll be like England v France at the 6N.  I'd assume for both coaches and players it's much too important a game to be so loose.  So it might be very coy and tight for much of it.  But I expect a classic fight - in close or out on the edges.

England need to score early, if we're 20+ mins into the game and missing opportunities, or even worse losing, then I think we'll start to force the game, which'll be bad with some of the players chosen.

Basically we're a confidence team.

My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

yappysnap wrote:England need to score early, if we're 20+ mins into the game and missing opportunities, or even worse losing, then I think we'll start to force the game, which'll be bad with some of the players chosen.

Basically we're a confidence team.

It isn't going to help, but last 6N we were behind until after half time even though we had taken control from around 20 minutes in

Wonder how will all be feeling by this time tomorrow evening?

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

swings and roundabouts. Wales gets an early outside back injury and on comes Cuthbert....

lostinwales wrote:

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

swings and roundabouts. Wales gets an early outside back injury and on comes Cuthbert....

Lions player...

Scottrf wrote:Lions player...

Who has been like a carthorse ever since that tour

He must have some dirt on Gatland or something to have made this bench...

Hardly fair on carthorses.

Cuthbert is a donkey but the cupboard is bare, its either him or Morgan ffs, in fact apart from those two am i right that the only other back in the squad is Tyler Morgan?

Amos covers fb, north the centres, Cuthbert wings and Priestland covers jack.

I'd be inclined to bring on Lloyd Williams or Tiupric before i brought on Cuthbert.

Is Anscombe fit, is Tom James or Walker back to fitness?

Worried about our backline, partly because I think it's been picked for the wrong reasons. If it was a horses for courses attempt to nullify Wales' centres power I could see the argument. I think wrong-headed but some logic to it. But I fear Lancaster has misdiagnosed our problems from last week. Ford played averagely because Youngs was abject. As ever. I'm sorry, but he cannot pass, at all. Slow and at head height time and time again. I would take Japan or Georgia's SH's ahead of him. Sadly there is no Care, but that's the problem. One poor selection compounds another.

Basically we now need to smash it up harder than them is what it boils down too. I'm not at all confident, but maybe home advantage will get us over the line.

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

One of several disappointing aspects of the selection is that there is a high probability England will end up with a FB (Brown) on the wing by midway through the second half. Maybe Goode is there because of the lack of play-makers in the starting line up, but I think Nowell would have been a better option as he can cover FB and wing.

I still think the selection is too negative - too much about stopping Wales when we are the home side, the weather will be good and we've got some outstanding outside backs. I like SL but I think he knows he's put his job at risk with this selection. If Slade were playing instead of Barritt it would have put a whole different slant on things, but SL obviously only has Slade along to play against Uruguay. It's a shame.

We can still win mind.

Hood83 wrote:Worried about our backline, partly because I think it's been picked for the wrong reasons. If it was a horses for courses attempt to nullify Wales' centres power I could see the argument. I think wrong-headed but some logic to it. But I fear Lancaster has misdiagnosed our problems from last week. Ford played averagely because Youngs was abject. As ever. I'm sorry, but he cannot pass, at all. Slow and at head height time and time again. I would take Japan or Georgia's SH's ahead of him. Sadly there is no Care, but that's the problem. One poor selection compounds another.

Basically we now need to smash it up harder than them is what it boils down too. I'm not at all confident, but maybe home advantage will get us over the line.

When did the Wales centres last really cause England a problem? 2013? This selection is a negative over reaction, which I could only understand if torrential rain was forecast.

And Ford didn't play badly because of Youngs, he played badly because of Barritt. It was always going to be too much for Ford to be the only creative English back.

I do agree, in part, that England's selection is predominantly designed to nullify Wales, and punish subsequent indiscipline with accurate, methodical goal-kicking.

Whilst that is slightly disappointing, we must remember that Wales are so painfully one-dimensional under Gatland that the strategy will probably work. If England gain parity (or better) at the scrum, are consistently accurate with the line-out, and maintain a decent standard of discipline, they will win comfortably.

Lancaster knows exactly how to beat Wales and, entirely as expected, the 30-3 drubbing that England received in Cardiff was the greatest gift they could possibly be bestowed with in the long-run.

It might not be overly pretty, but England should triumph by a ten point margin.

Scottrf wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

swings and roundabouts. Wales gets an early outside back injury and on comes Cuthbert....

Lions player...

Makes me wonder why he's picked Cuthbert at all and not for the first time. Tyler Morgan is a centre but has played wing before, so for me it would have been a very simple call. I probably would have also picked Phillips on the bench, as bad as he is he's probably better than Williams.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:My concern for England (or at least one of them) is what happens if May or Watson get injured early? Goode to fullback, Brown to wing is the only option. That leaves a truly horrible backline that will be completely outpaced by Wales.

swings and roundabouts. Wales gets an early outside back injury and on comes Cuthbert....

Lions player...

Makes me wonder why he's picked Cuthbert at all and not for the first time. Tyler Morgan is a centre but has played wing before, so for me it would have been a very simple call. I probably would have also picked Phillips on the bench, as bad as he is he's probably better than Williams.

Mate I don't disagree with you at all but...!

I guess it is because Cuthbert should be playing so much better. He is probably catching ever pass, tackling anything that moves and beating every man in training.. He isn't doing that on the field. He just looks so unlucky on the field.

We know he isn't the worlds greatest winger, but he is a lot better than the form he is showing.


As you read above, England don't see him as someone who shouldn't be in the Blues squad let alone Wales, they see him as another Lion on our bench.

God I hope he finds some blwdi form though.

maestegmafia wrote:Cuthbert should be playing so much better. He is probably catching ever pass, tackling anything that moves and beating every man in training

That's stretching it a bit...

I think this match will be fascinating. England's back three look world class but do the centres have enough creativity to unleash them. At a time where England's back stock is rising the forwards are not dominating as they have and the scrum is starting to look shakey to say the least. That said my biggest fear for Wales is gethin Jenkins. His scrummaging is not what it was and he's getting pinged with alarming regularity these days, our front row cover is worryingly thin but then again England don't seem to be the force they were in this facet of play anymore. I'm hoping Gareth davies will give us an edge that England don't see coming and the centres greater experience, with tipuric coming off the bench later on will see us through. But then there's the twickenham factor...like I said fascinating day coming up. Good luck to both sides better luck for wales.

DaveM wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Worried about our backline, partly because I think it's been picked for the wrong reasons. If it was a horses for courses attempt to nullify Wales' centres power I could see the argument. I think wrong-headed but some logic to it. But I fear Lancaster has misdiagnosed our problems from last week. Ford played averagely because Youngs was abject. As ever. I'm sorry, but he cannot pass, at all. Slow and at head height time and time again. I would take Japan or Georgia's SH's ahead of him. Sadly there is no Care, but that's the problem. One poor selection compounds another.

Basically we now need to smash it up harder than them is what it boils down too. I'm not at all confident, but maybe home advantage will get us over the line.

When did the Wales centres last really cause England a problem? 2013? This selection is a negative over reaction, which I could only understand if torrential rain was forecast.

And Ford didn't play badly because of Youngs, he played badly because of Barritt. It was always going to be too much for Ford to be the only creative English back.

Agree re Barritt, but you cannot have a flyhalf play well when he's getting the ball slow and at his head. Dan Carter wouldn't have shone with the dross Youngs was serving up. I don't care if he 'snipes' for a half break once in awhile, his pass is atrocious.

Unknown quantities within the backs can be a big factor in these games - if they bring something unexpected in attack. As a Welsh fan I'm obviously concerned about Burgess, since he's something Gatland hasn't got much info on, and so cannot truly prepare for. Though, he is big enough to keep track of on the pitch - so you'd hope he will be well-marked.
On the other hand it just occurred to me how many relatively "unknown quantities" England are facing in the Welsh backs. I can't imagine many of them have played against Amos or Gareth Davies, and probably not much against Liam Williams. If these boys don't get daunted by the scale of the event (always a possibility), they could prove a key factor. A lot is being made of The Welsh backs "power game", but aside from Roberts and North this Welsh back line is more of a "footballing" attacking threat.

Enjoy the game all, whatever the outcome it should be one hell of a game.

Personally I have lost confidence in the England setup. The set piece isn't strong enough, there is no focus on the breakdown and the backs largely rely on moments of brilliance rather than having a clear structure. Nevertheless it won't dull my cheer tonight and I hope to be shown to be clueless and Bomber is actually a tactical genius

This England team feels like such a typically dour, safety first approach. You axe Hartley so you have to play T Youngs, who can't throw, so you need to load up with lineout options like Wood, who's too lightweight and so on and so forth

For all the talk of Lancaster showing his hand too early in the tournament and reverting to type for his starting 15, I think its on the bench where his true game plan lies and we won't see it until the final 30 minutes tonight.

Lancaster had long said he wants to pair Ford and Farrell at 10 and 12, and the only chance he had to try it previously was with a severely out of form Farrell and Barrett at 13. His main goal was to use Tuilagi in that 13 power house role, but he could never try it, hence wanting Burgess to fill that sizeable Tuilagi hole.

With Joseph in at 13, he needed a lump at 12 to provide balance, Barrett was picked to offer a stalker option but Burgess was always earmarked for that role provided he came through the warm ups and the Fiji game.

Now Josephs out, Lancaster has gone for a stable and physical approach to start, but I have no doubt Ford will come on for Barrett early second half and all of a sudden Lancaster has his desired midfield which will provide a lot of width in the final quarter but with Burgess will still hold the midfield.

If it works don't be surprised to see a Ford Farrell and Burgess Nuffield line up against Australia next week with Slade on the bench.

Steadier not stalker

I don't think I expect England's backs to be in restive in this game. Just a different kind of creative.

If Burgess can offload like Sonny Bill they will cause Wales a lot of problems and as stated before Watson and Brown are definitely great players that scare the bejebuz out of me.

Farrell is not a player I rate highly but he is pragmatic and effective.

Lancaster has rested on his laurels with this selection. This is the core of a team that beat the all blacks, they are a huge threat to Wales if their set piece starts to work and they get those offloads in.

That said I have a lot of faith in this Welsh coaching teams ability to not only prepare their players but to analyse their opposition.

We are lucky to have so much a smashing confrontation so early in a World Cup.

I can't wait but the butterflies in my stomach are going crazy.

I hope everyone gets to enjoy a fantastic game.

C'mon Wales your country needs you to do this...!

I keep reading that Farrell has been selected on the back of an impressive cameo in the first England match. I really must have been watching another game because in my opinion, he looked average and his decision making cost England a try.

England's midfield looks solid but extremely ordinary. Farrell will have to have an excellent game kicking wise or Bomber will look very silly for this team selection.

As for Wales, I really would have started with Tipuric, this is the type of game where I believe he would excel.

maestegmafia wrote:I don't think I expect England's backs to be in restive in this game. Just a different kind of creative.

If Burgess can offload like Sonny Bill they will cause Wales a lot of problems and as stated before Watson and Brown are definitely great players that scare the bejebuz out of me.

Farrell is not a player I rate highly but he is pragmatic and effective.

Lancaster has rested on his laurels with this selection. This is the core of a team that beat the all blacks, they are a huge threat to Wales if their set piece starts to work and they get those offloads in.

That said I have a lot of faith in this Welsh coaching teams ability to not only prepare their players but to analyse their opposition.

We are lucky to have so much a smashing confrontation so early in a World Cup.

I can't wait but the butterflies in my stomach are going crazy.

I hope everyone gets to enjoy a fantastic game.

C'mon Wales your country needs you to do this...!

Agree about the butterflies, mate. The countdown to kickoff is almost in it's final ticks right now. Can't wait. The first matches felt almost like a warm-up to this. Good luck. Sorry you have to lose, but see you in the final!

I like your comment about a different kind of creative. Frankly, I am not so sure Barritt and Burgess (or is it Burgess and Barritt?) can really spell 'creative' but let's see. if they can keep the pace up, and keep running crisp, direct lines, then maybe......

I think I have finally worked out Lancaster's strategy. Obviously when Lancaster started he looked around the rest of the world to look at the best strategies and to see where there is space for innovation. He eventually would have seen what Scot Johnson was doing with the mass no.8 strategy (itself dating back to England, Geoff Cook and the days when it made a small amount of sense) and thought, well, it's not quite right but he might be on to something.

What we need wasn't more no.8's - it was more flankers. And now today we have a team with 6 flankers. (Maybe 7 - I am sure Parling has done a shift at 6). 1 hooker who could probably do a shift at 7 - 2 props retrained to be more like flankers and a fly half who tackles like one. Who needs centers?

Obvious innit..

lostinwales wrote:I think I have finally worked out Lancaster's strategy. Obviously when Lancaster started he looked around the rest of the world to look at the best strategies and to see where there is space for innovation. He eventually would have seen what Scot Johnson was doing with the mass no.8 strategy (itself dating back to England, Geoff Cook and the days when it made a small amount of sense) and thought, well, it's not quite right but he might be on to something.

What we need wasn't more no.8's - it was more flankers. And now today we have a team with 6 flankers. (Maybe 7 - I am sure Parling has done a shift at 6). 1 hooker who could probably do a shift at 7 - 2 props retrained to be more like flankers and a fly half who tackles like one. Who needs centers?

Obvious innit..

Funny!
Unfortunately, so far in the warm-up matches and the Fiji match our Props are scrummaging like Flankers.

There's some sort of game on tonight, isn't there?

This game might not be the Rugby World Cup final. But it sure feels like it is.

I am not expecting a "HIGH"  scoring game.

I am expecting a "HIGH" tempo game though. Both side will be really pumped up for this game.

I don't think any team will win by much to be honest. 1/2 scores at the most i do hope it work out in Englands favour. What with home advantage and the fact England have won against Wales the last 2 times they have played in Twickenham.

Gavin Hastins says that SL as panicked in picking Owen Farrell and Sam burgess, as he? i don't know guess we will find out later.
.

What about Warren Gatland? as he made a boo, boo, by picking Lydate in the scrum instead of Justin Tipuric?  I am not saying that Lydate is a bad player or any thing, but i just think that Tipuric and Warburton are so good playing together.

Not long to go now nerves are starting to jangle abit.

It'll be a quiet couple of hours on the motorways tonight. Good time to travel.

What do we think about yellow cards (or, god forbid, red)?

Farrell probably should have seen yellow in the Premiership final, Burgess saw one in the warm-up with France, while Tom May could have got one for a tackle in the air. I think those three are England's highest risks: Farrell for temperament; Burgess for not knowing the laws & tackling technique; May for competing in the air and getting his timing wrong.

Don't know about Wales. Jenkins has seen yellow before for scrum infringements, while Liam Williams is cut from similar cloth to Farrell.

I'm not suggesting it will be a dirty match, but with so much at stake, it'll be a minor miracle if we don't see at least one player in the bin.

I've spent the last few weeks, months or even years debating pretty much every facet of this match with my buddies of both nationalities and now it's here. So rather than spend an hour typing all my opinions I thought just for fun id ask who do people think are the most likely from each team to be carded first today??
For Wales I'd say:
1. Francis (lazy, lying on the wrong side or scrum pens)
2. Gethin (scrum pens)
3. Gareth Davies (hotheaded! guess we may find out 2day if he's another Dai Bish!)
4. Liam Williams (another hothead, prone to high tackles etc)

For England I'd go:
1. Cole (as with Francis!)
2. Marler (as with Gethin, Francis and Cole dependent on who the ref starts pinging!)
3. Lawes (late, high hit......obviously!)
4. Burgess (as with Lawes but lil Hal gets decapitated after inexplicably being sent on a crash ball!)

Rugby Fan wrote:What do we think about yellow cards (or, god forbid, red)?

Farrell probably should have seen yellow in the Premiership final, Burgess saw one in the warm-up with France, while Tom May could have got one for a tackle in the air. I think those three are England's highest risks: Farrell for temperament; Burgess for not knowing the laws & tackling technique; May for competing in the air and getting his timing wrong.

Don't know about Wales. Jenkins has seen yellow before for scrum infringements, while Liam Williams is cut from similar cloth to Farrell.

I'm not suggesting it will be a dirty match, but with so much at stake, it'll be a minor miracle if we don't see at least one player in the bin.

That is a good point.  Since it will be a physical, perhaps very physical match the players will be walking a fine line and will need to keep their composure.  Adding fuel to the fire is the pressure, which is likely even higher than a 6 Nations.  The match is as much about mental toughness and composure as about skill and physicality.  Will be interesting to see who gets exposed.

Rugby fan great minds eh? Lol

What neither team want's to do is give away kickable penalties, because i do expect both kicker Farrell, and Biggar will nail there kicks if they are in range.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I don't think I expect England's backs to be in restive in this game. Just a different kind of creative.

If Burgess can offload like Sonny Bill they will cause Wales a lot of problems and as stated before Watson and Brown are definitely great players that scare the bejebuz out of me.

Farrell is not a player I rate highly but he is pragmatic and effective.

Lancaster has rested on his laurels with this selection. This is the core of a team that beat the all blacks, they are a huge threat to Wales if their set piece starts to work and they get those offloads in.

That said I have a lot of faith in this Welsh coaching teams ability to not only prepare their players but to analyse their opposition.

We are lucky to have so much a smashing confrontation so early in a World Cup.

I can't wait but the butterflies in my stomach are going crazy.

I hope everyone gets to enjoy a fantastic game.

C'mon Wales your country needs you to do this...!

Agree about the butterflies, mate.  The countdown to kickoff is almost in it's final ticks right now.  Can't wait.  The first matches felt almost like a warm-up to this.  Good luck.  Sorry you have to lose, but see you in the final!

I like your comment about a different kind of creative. Frankly, I am not so sure Barritt and Burgess (or is it Burgess and Barritt?) can really spell 'creative' but let's see.  if they can keep the pace up, and keep running crisp, direct lines, then maybe......

I don't think Burgess can spell creative, listening to him in interview I think he probably struggles to spell Sam. Jamie Roberts can spell, though unfortunately you wouldn't be able to read it, his handwriting is appalling due to him being a Dr...!

Time can't pass fast enough right now... I've been portering around my planting shed all morning listening to the build up on the radio... Must have drunk ten cups of tea already.

Hopefully can distract myself with the two warm up games before...

majesticimperialman wrote:What neither team want's to do is give away kickable penalties, because i do expect both kicker Farrell, and Biggar will nail there kicks if they are in range.

Farrell usually doesn't react well to pressure. He fluffs his kicks and gets aggravated easily.

George Ford is the player with the steady temperament.

jamesandimac wrote:For all the talk of Lancaster showing his hand too early in the tournament and reverting to type for his starting 15, I think its on the bench where his true game plan lies and we won't see it until the final 30 minutes tonight.

Lancaster had long said he wants to pair Ford and Farrell at 10 and 12, and the only chance he had to try it previously was with a severely out of form Farrell and Barrett at 13. His main goal was to use Tuilagi in that 13 power house role, but he could never try it, hence wanting Burgess to fill that sizeable Tuilagi hole.

With Joseph in at 13, he needed a lump at 12 to provide balance, Barrett was picked to offer a stalker option but Burgess was always earmarked for that role provided he came through the warm ups and the Fiji game.

Now Josephs out, Lancaster has gone for a stable and physical approach to start, but I have no doubt Ford will come on for Barrett early second half and all of a sudden Lancaster has his desired midfield which will provide a lot of width in the final quarter but with Burgess will still hold the midfield.

If it works don't be surprised to see a Ford Farrell and Burgess Nuffield line up against Australia next week with Slade on the bench.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:What neither team want's to do is give away kickable penalties, because i do expect both kicker Farrell, and Biggar will nail there kicks if they are in range.

Farrell usually doesn't react well to pressure. He fluffs his kicks and gets aggravated easily.

George Ford is the player with the steady temperament.

Hmmm, I don't think so. Farrell has had a few hot-headed moments and occasionally been a bit off with the boot but he is generally very good under pressure. One of his strengths is the ability to channel his aggression and ignore pressure.

Like Biggar he's matured quite a bit over the last few years.

majesticimperialman wrote:. What with home advantage and the fact England have won against Wales the last 2 times they have played in Twickenham.

No

England won the last game at Twickenham, Wales beat England at HQ in 2012 when Scott Williams came on as a sub, stole the ball off hard man Courtney Lawes and scored a match winning try.


19 - 12 to Wales

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17178478

The teams were

England: 15-Ben Foden, 14-Chris Ashton, 13-Manu Tuilagi, 12-Brad Barritt, 11-David Strettle, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Lee Dickson; 1 Alex Corbisiero, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-Dan Cole, 4-Mouritz Botha, 5-Geoff Parling, 6-Tom Croft, 7-Chris Robshaw, 8-Ben Morgan.

Replacements: 16-Rob Webber (for Hartley, 73), 17-Matt Stevens (for Corbisiero, 66), 18-Courtney Lawes (for Botha 61), 19-Phil Dowson, 20-Ben Youngs (for Dickson, 61), 21-Toby Flood (for Farrell, 66), 22-Mike Brown (for Foden, 78)




Wales: 15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Mike Phillips; 1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Alun Wyn Jones, 5-Ian Evans, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton, 8-Toby Faletau.


Replacements: 16-Richard Hibbard, 17-Paul James, 18-Ryan Jones (for AW Jones, 54) 19-Justin Tipuric, 20-Lloyd Williams, 21-Stephen Jones, 22-Scott Williams (for Roberts, 41).


12 of that Welsh team are in the 23 today, 7 of the England team are in their 23.