England v Wales - Part 2, 26 September

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ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV1

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), B Barritt (Saracens), S Burgess (Bath), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), T Youngs (Leicester), D Cole (Leicester), G Parling (Exeter), C Lawes (Northampton), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens)

Replacements: R Webber (Bath), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Northampton), J Launchbury (Wasps), J Haskell (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

WALES

Liam Williams (Scarlets); G North (Northampton), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Harlequins), H Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons); D Biggar (Ospreys), G Davies (Scarlets); G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), S Baldwin (Ospreys), T Francis (Exeter), B Davies (Wasps), A-W Jones (Ospreys), D Lydiate (Ospreys), S Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: K Owens (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), S Lee (Scarlets), L Charteris (Racing 92), J Tipuric (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), R Priestland (Bath), A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues).

Always like a little snipe don't you maes

Off out for the rest of the day to get thoroughly drunk, but enjoy the game everyone and hope we get the right result!

hjumpshoe wrote:Rugby fan great minds eh? Lol

We must have been typing out our posts at exactly the same time.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Unknown quantities within the backs can be a big factor in these games - if they bring something unexpected in attack. As a Welsh fan I'm obviously concerned about Burgess, since he's something Gatland hasn't got much info on, and so cannot truly prepare for. Though, he is big enough to keep track of on the pitch - so you'd hope he will be well-marked.
On the other hand it just occurred to me how many relatively "unknown quantities" England are facing in the Welsh backs. I can't imagine many of them have played against Amos or Gareth Davies, and probably not much against Liam Williams. If these boys don't get daunted by the scale of the event (always a possibility), they could prove a key factor. A lot is being made of The Welsh backs "power game", but aside from Roberts and North this Welsh back line is more of a "footballing" attacking threat.

It's a better balance of physicality and footballing ability than we usually have - and the footballing ability isn't really at the expense of physicality either, in the case of Amos, Davies and Williams. None of them is a lightweight.

actually may poop my pants.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:. What with home advantage and the fact England have won against Wales the last 2 times they have played in Twickenham.

No

England won the last game at Twickenham, Wales beat England at HQ in 2012 when Scott Williams came on as a sub, stole the ball off hard man Courtney Lawes and scored a match winning try.


19 - 12 to Wales

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17178478

The teams were

England: 15-Ben Foden, 14-Chris Ashton, 13-Manu Tuilagi, 12-Brad Barritt, 11-David Strettle, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Lee Dickson; 1 Alex Corbisiero, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-Dan Cole, 4-Mouritz Botha, 5-Geoff Parling, 6-Tom Croft, 7-Chris Robshaw, 8-Ben Morgan.

Replacements: 16-Rob Webber (for Hartley, 73), 17-Matt Stevens (for Corbisiero, 66), 18-Courtney Lawes (for Botha 61), 19-Phil Dowson, 20-Ben Youngs (for Dickson, 61), 21-Toby Flood (for Farrell, 66), 22-Mike Brown (for Foden, 78)




Wales: 15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Mike Phillips; 1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Alun Wyn Jones, 5-Ian Evans, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton, 8-Toby Faletau.


Replacements: 16-Richard Hibbard, 17-Paul James, 18-Ryan Jones (for AW Jones, 54) 19-Justin Tipuric, 20-Lloyd Williams, 21-Stephen Jones, 22-Scott Williams (for Roberts, 41).


12 of that Welsh team are in the 23 today, 7 of the England team are in their 23.

That's true but it's not unreasonable to say that of the 23 running out today.

England's is stronger than last time whereas I believe Wales is worse.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:. What with home advantage and the fact England have won against Wales the last 2 times they have played in Twickenham.

No

England won the last game at Twickenham, Wales beat England at HQ in 2012 when Scott Williams came on as a sub, stole the ball off hard man Courtney Lawes and scored a match winning try.


19 - 12 to Wales

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17178478

The teams were

England: 15-Ben Foden, 14-Chris Ashton, 13-Manu Tuilagi, 12-Brad Barritt, 11-David Strettle, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Lee Dickson; 1 Alex Corbisiero, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-Dan Cole, 4-Mouritz Botha, 5-Geoff Parling, 6-Tom Croft, 7-Chris Robshaw, 8-Ben Morgan.

Replacements: 16-Rob Webber (for Hartley, 73), 17-Matt Stevens (for Corbisiero, 66), 18-Courtney Lawes (for Botha 61), 19-Phil Dowson, 20-Ben Youngs (for Dickson, 61), 21-Toby Flood (for Farrell, 66), 22-Mike Brown (for Foden, 78)




Wales: 15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Mike Phillips; 1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Alun Wyn Jones, 5-Ian Evans, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton, 8-Toby Faletau.


Replacements: 16-Richard Hibbard, 17-Paul James, 18-Ryan Jones (for AW Jones, 54) 19-Justin Tipuric, 20-Lloyd Williams, 21-Stephen Jones, 22-Scott Williams (for Roberts, 41).


12 of that Welsh team are in the 23 today, 7 of the England team are in their 23.

That's true but it's not unreasonable to say that of the 23 running out today.

England's is stronger than last time whereas I believe Wales is worse.

Not quite so sure that on paper England are stronger. To me, the 2105 RWC version is certainly better on the wings, unknown in the centres (Burgess for Tuilagi), on par with the halfbacks, weaker in the tight five, but stronger in the back row.

On paper, the 2015 Wales team appears somewhat less strong than the 2012 version.

But we don't play on paper, so let's have at it...............

Doc. it is true that we don't play on paper. It should also be mentioned that we should not live in the past.

As you say England lost to Wales in 2012.

But it was that year 2012 when in october i think it was. England beat the All Blacks by the biggest score ever.

But in all honesty neither of what i have just said makes any difference to days game.

The teams are different so lets just wait and see what today game brings.

Think the team that loses today are out of the cup, can't see either of us beating the Aussies, tho I would love it if we both did.

May the best (Welsh) team win, tho I do feel it's going to be England's day and will probably sulk for a week!

#StaystrongforOws

Blueschief wrote:Think the team that loses today are out of the cup, can't see either of us beating the Aussies, tho I would love it if we both did.

May the best (Welsh) team win, tho I do feel it's going to be England's day and will probably sulk for a week!

#StaystrongforOws

totally agree; with the sentiment of wanting both going through, but sadly also with the reality that I think this is the big one fo both teams.

I think you could argue that both coaches can be criticised for their selections. I simply cannot believe that Gatland hasn't started with Tipuric and also that Lancaster starts with Farrell & Burgess instead of just changing Joseph for Slade.

However, it could be that SL has played a masterstroke here. Wales will have been expecting and training for a more expansive England, but instead they get the route one option. I actually expect England to play much like they did against the All Blacks back in 2012 with constant pressure and speed at the breakdown. Farrell will happily kick most of the penalties that are likely to arise. It's not going to be too pretty but I see England taking this by about 8-12 points. And I also expect Burgess to be targeting every Welsh player who gets the ball in an effort to disrupt. I can see a couple of early big hits to get in the Welsh heads.

I am not so sure that the looser today will be out of the RWC. I think that if England lose, they can beat the Aussies. Wales I am not so sure about beating the Aussies but its not impossible.

Are we there yet?

Under Gatland Wales have repeatedly turned up with a big performance on the big occasions. They don't fear England. Lancaster's selections show he is worried about the Welsh and is thinking about not losing instead of going out and winning it. I predict a Welsh win.

England will look to keep the ball in field and try to tire the welsh pack out. If they can manage that for 50 mins and contain the welsh then the forwards on the bench will provide a real change of pace. But its all resting on the starters containing the welsh pack, easier said than done

England will look to keep the ball in field and try to tire the welsh pack out. If they can manage that for 50 mins and contain the welsh then the forwards on the bench will provide a real change of pace. But its all resting on the starters containing the welsh pack, easier said than done

rozakthegoon wrote:

Blueschief wrote:Think the team that loses today are out of the cup, can't see either of us beating the Aussies, tho I would love it if we both did.

May the best (Welsh) team win, tho I do feel it's going to be England's day and will probably sulk for a week!

#StaystrongforOws

totally agree; with the sentiment of wanting both going through, but sadly also with the reality that I think this is the big one fo both teams.

I agree it will ruin the spirit of the World Cup if England go out in the pool stages as hosts. I suspect that if they do lose today that will spur them on to a win against the wallabies.

Australia hold no levy over England unlike they do over Wales so could make this group go down to the last match.

That would be exciting...!

C'mon Wales...!

Jarvis apart, the Welsh forward replacements look quality. If any came on after minute 1 I would be happy.

There is a real drop off in ability in their backs replacements however.

My knowledge of either squad could be much deeper than it is, but with my layman's trousers pulled firmly on, it does seem as through it could have been avoided for England's centre combination to be playing together here for the first time.

George Carlin wrote:My knowledge of either squad could be much deeper than it is, but with my layman's trousers pulled firmly on, it does seem as through it could have been avoided for England's centre combination to be playing together here for the first time.

Once Twelvetrees and Tuilagi were out of the squad, the chances of our centre partnership having much time together dropped sharply. Most of Barritt's caps came with those two. Even Burrell's inclusion wouldn't have raised the experience level a great deal because he hasn't been paired much with Barritt over the years.

From within the squad, the only fit centre combinations with more Test experience would be Farrell and Barritt, or Burgess and Slade. The second pair has had one good run out, but would be desperately short of caps for a match like this. Experience is clearly a key consideration for Lancaster because Nowell would be a more obvious bench replacement than Goode but the Saracens man has far more big games under his belt.

Rugby Fan wrote:

George Carlin wrote:My knowledge of either squad could be much deeper than it is, but with my layman's trousers pulled firmly on, it does seem as through it could have been avoided for England's centre combination to be playing together here for the first time.

Once Twelvetrees and Tuilagi were out of the squad, the chances of our centre partnership having much time together dropped sharply. Most of Barritt's caps came with those two. Even Burrell's inclusion wouldn't have raised the experience level a great deal because he hasn't been paired much with Barritt over the years.

From within the squad, the only fit centre combinations with more Test experience would be Farrell and Barritt, or Burgess and Slade. The second pair has had one good run out, but would be desperately short of caps for a match like this. Experience is clearly a key consideration for Lancaster because Nowell would be a more obvious bench replacement than Goode but the Saracens man has far more big games under his belt.

Great explanation - thank you.

England fans: enjoy the game, if the nerves allow it. It should be a belter!

Managed to avoid most of the banal build up, so far, to tonight's game.

Good luck everyone, and may the best team on the night win and I hope and pray no one needs to mention the ref or TMO after the result.

TightHEAD wrote:Good luck everyone, and may the best team on the night win and I hope and pray no one needs to mention the ref or TMO after the result.

This x 100

TightHEAD wrote:Good luck everyone, and may the best team on the night win and I hope and pray no one needs to mention the ref or TMO after the result.

Knickers to that. Come on WALES!

And that ladies and gentleman sums it up!!!!!

TightHEAD wrote:And that ladies and gentleman sums it up!!!!!

Oh dear.

Game on. Come on England.

Bloody adverts. Lets get on with the game.

I agree, may the best team win.*





*unless Wales are the best team

Francis looks confused with the Welsh anthem

Really looking forward to this game. Hope it lives up to the hype. I think it will.

Hasslehoff and his Welsh mrs interviewed pitchside. Mike Hall in the studio.....
Come on England!!!!

Rubbish decision

3% off Ospreys merch.

That was a strange decision indeed

How crooked was that Welsh line-out?!

Gethin Jenkins and his legendary subpar scrummaging

Get in their!

Wales looking sharper in the line out, England making mistakes.

Wales are going to use the drop goal any chance. Both teams looking to bosh. This one isn't going to be for the purists!

The Talisman that is Shane Williams sounding very confident as they smash it up the middle.

Great call from Poite, have to give credits when due

EDIT Garces getting mixed up

Why does biggar seem to have a mini fit before he takes a penalty these days?

6 pence off a one-true bumper sticker.

6-6 Farrell brings out his own drop goal.

Ah a right-footed drop goal...

Great work by bigger

punchup time

Close line or a tackle? Tackle for me