Taulupe Faletau transfer blocked

First topic message reminder :

Well, well, well. You are not going anywhere Taulupe, perhaps they will give him a DC after all, or Peters Thomas will flash his millions at him.

The Welsh Rugby Union has refused permission for Newport Gwent Dragons to transfer international number eight Taulupe Faletau.
The region had sought to release the British and Irish Lions forward, with Bath favourites to secure his signing.
Under the funding agreement for Welsh domestic rugby, national coach Warren Gatland has to sanction international players moving outside Wales.
A Dragons statement confirmed permission had been denied.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34652414

mikey_dragon wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:Faletau was linked with Bath before the World Cup. He was offered a contract (with us/WRU) but didn't sign. He doesn't want to be here. Let him go.

Wise words mate.

Thankfully, numpties that are still living in the 90's aren't running the show.

Is that aimed at me? This is the exact opposite of the 90's, you fool. This is a pro rugby, modern era, transfer fee issue we're talking about here. That didn't happen in the 90's. This is a very 2015 thing. Players wanting away during their pro contract: keep a miserable player for 7 months more rugby and get £0 or fulfil his request, make him happy and still pocket £150k. What's he got, maybe 10 more games for the Dragons? It's not like he was a quick in and out - he's been at the Dragons for years and served us well. It's also not like this is out of the blue. Speculation about his future has been happening for years, and was there before his last contract talks. I say treat the guy with the respect that he's shown us over the years and allow him to move if that's what he really wants, because he's going anyway in the summer.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Not disagreeing with you wayne.

Fair play for Dragons to agree to it.

Personally, WRU shouldn't have a block on a contract that was entered into prior to their powers coming into place (which is what this looks like), surely there should be a grandfather rule on the employment contract.

The WRU aren't blocking a contract.  The regions have agreed that they need permission from the WRU to break a contract with an international player.

Which is ridiculous. And clearly needs to change.

Needs to change? Well given its part of the new agreement recently signed that's hardly going to happen, all Regions signed it so we (Dragons) can't complain.

Short memory-tastic on here tonight and i've yurd the infamous RSA is a million miles long.

wayne wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Not disagreeing with you wayne.

Fair play for Dragons to agree to it.

Personally, WRU shouldn't have a block on a contract that was entered into prior to their powers coming into place (which is what this looks like), surely there should be a grandfather rule on the employment contract.

The WRU aren't blocking a contract.  The regions have agreed that they need permission from the WRU to break a contract with an international player.

Which is ridiculous. And clearly needs to change.

So you want to change a contract that was signed less than a year ago, when the Regions had a slight bit more power than they had previously.

Yes indeed.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Needs to change?  Well given its part of the new agreement recently signed that's hardly going to happen, all Regions signed it so we (Dragons) can't complain.

Just because an agreement was signed, doesn't mean supporters can't have an opinion on it.

If it is unfit for purpose and outdated and agreed by a previous Union regime, then it deserves to be changed if all parties are agreed that it will bring further benefit to Welsh rugby.

Massive amount of pro-WRU hypocrisy on yur from some so called Regional fans. It's Rogeresque almost.

That's what a three point win over England buys you I guess.

Let's remember that the WRU cannot block the transfer but can fine the NGD if it goes ahead.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Needs to change?  Well given its part of the new agreement recently signed that's hardly going to happen, all Regions signed it so we (Dragons) can't complain.

Just because an  agreement was signed, doesn't mean supporters can't have an opinion on it.

If it is unfit for purpose and outdated and agreed by a previous Union regime, then it deserves to be changed if all parties are agreed that it will bring further benefit to Welsh rugby.

So why did they sign it in the first place if it they thought it was unfit for purpose?

Presumably this gives the WRU 12 months to talk him into signing a central contract? So it makes sense in many ways.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Presumably this gives the WRU 12 months to talk him into signing a central contract? So it makes sense in many ways.

What it gives is the opportunity to ensure Taulupe is available for the CrossFit Games next January.

This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

wayne wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Not disagreeing with you wayne.

Fair play for Dragons to agree to it.

Personally, WRU shouldn't have a block on a contract that was entered into prior to their powers coming into place (which is what this looks like), surely there should be a grandfather rule on the employment contract.

The WRU aren't blocking a contract.  The regions have agreed that they need permission from the WRU to break a contract with an international player.

Which is ridiculous. And clearly needs to change.

So you want to change a contract that was signed less than a year ago, when the Regions had a slight bit more power than they had previously.

Yes indeed.

Well good luck with that, at least you'll have a number of years to vent your feelings as this will not be altered until BOTH sides agree to it, or when this RSA runs out.

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Quite Fanster. How can you forget your point in the third paragraph so quickly, by the time you get to the fourth? I smell a rat.

PhilBB wrote:Let's remember that the WRU cannot block the transfer but can fine the NGD if it goes ahead.

This is true, and hopefully under the terms of the RSA, they would fine ANY team, that tried to break the said agreement, the amount they gained from breaking it.

Risca Rev wrote:

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Quite Fanster. How can you forget your point in the third paragraph so quickly, by the time you get to the fourth? I smell a rat.

Personally Rev I don't want Taulupe at the Ospreys, I'm on record on these boards of NOT wanting Lydiate with us either. I want 4 good Welsh Regions with equal representation in the Welsh squad, although I find it rather ironic that both of those players don't want to stay or return to the Dragons.

Not sure why it's ironic?

Risca Rev wrote:

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Quite Fanster. How can you forget your point in the third paragraph so quickly, by the time you get to the fourth? I smell a rat.

What are you talking about, I would love to see a Welsh region win the HC, to have a huge Welsh based playing staff, with world class players intermingled, is that the best way forward for Welsh rugby? Probably not.

So me wanting 4 strong regions, but recognising thats not really acheivable right now is hardly rat like. Grow up and consider why your reaction was to try to catch something someone says out, instead of a considered response to what was actually written

Risca Rev wrote:Not sure why it's ironic?

Why didn't Dan want to return to the Dragons when it was well documented that they had the first option and he wanted to go elsewhere, and why does Taulupe want to leave even though he's been offered a DC and yet again they would have the first option.

I find this both a very strange decision and also completely outrageous. I hope he gets some good legal advice 'cos under European law I cannot see how this is possible.

The aim of keeping your home based players home based is laudable but this is clearly against the spirit if not the law on Bosman

wayne wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Not sure why it's ironic?

Why didn't Dan want to return to the Dragons when it was well documented that they had the first option and he wanted to go elsewhere, and why does Taulupe want to leave even though he's been offered a DC and yet again they would have the first option.

Still not sure why it's ironic.

Fanster wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Quite Fanster. How can you forget your point in the third paragraph so quickly, by the time you get to the fourth? I smell a rat.

What are you talking about, I would love to see a Welsh region win the HC, to have a huge Welsh based playing staff, with world class players intermingled, is that the best way forward for Welsh rugby? Probably not.

So me wanting 4 strong regions, but recognising thats not really acheivable right now is hardly rat like. Grow up and consider why your reaction was to try to catch something someone says out, instead of a considered response to what was actually written

Maybe you need to consider your responses more and then we wouldn't have had this confusion. Surely you can see how you initially appear to contradict yourself?

Risca Rev wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

Quite Fanster. How can you forget your point in the third paragraph so quickly, by the time you get to the fourth? I smell a rat.

What are you talking about, I would love to see a Welsh region win the HC, to have a huge Welsh based playing staff, with world class players intermingled, is that the best way forward for Welsh rugby? Probably not.

So me wanting 4 strong regions, but recognising thats not really acheivable right now is hardly rat like. Grow up and consider why your reaction was to try to catch something someone says out, instead of a considered response to what was actually written

Maybe you need to consider your responses more and then we wouldn't have had this confusion. Surely you can see how you initially appear to contradict yourself?

There is no contradiction in saying i WANT 4 strong regions, but ask wether it's BETTER to invest in 2 flaqgships?

Are you saying that you always want, and believe that want is realistic at the same time?

I want to fiddle around with Scarlet Johanssen, but maybe it's better I stay with the missus.

TJ wrote:I find this both a very strange decision and also completely outrageous. I hope he gets some good legal advice 'cos under European law I cannot see how this is possible.

The aim of keeping your home based players home based is laudable but this is clearly against the spirit if not the law on Bosman

This was answered earlier, they cannot stop the transfer, but under the terms of the RSA, the WRU can fine ANY Region that breaks part of said agreement.

Risca Rev wrote:

wayne wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Not sure why it's ironic?

Why didn't Dan want to return to the Dragons when it was well documented that they had the first option and he wanted to go elsewhere, and why does Taulupe want to leave even though he's been offered a DC and yet again they would have the first option.

Still not sure why it's ironic.

Well there we are then!

Ok then, what currently makes Cardiff a flagship region other than they play in our capital?

Two regions doesn't do much for player development, does it? Let's say (as an example) Taulupe plays 8 for flagship region 1 and Dan Baker for flagship 2, where are the next in line going to get meaningful games? You'll end up with players having to play elsewhere, which is apparently what you're trying to avoid.

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:I find this both a very strange decision and also completely outrageous. I hope he gets some good legal advice 'cos under European law I cannot see how this is possible.

The aim of keeping your home based players home based is laudable but this is clearly against the spirit if not the law on Bosman

This was answered earlier, they cannot stop the transfer, but under the terms of the RSA, the WRU can fine ANY Region that breaks part of said agreement.

Still clearly against the spirit of Bosman and would be open to legal challenge. The player has the right to transfer. Anything impeding this is a restraint of trade. I am sure the WRU lawyers have had a good look at this but it seems really weird and unethical to me.

Sorry for not reading all the thread

TJ wrote:

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:I find this both a very strange decision and also completely outrageous. I hope he gets some good legal advice 'cos under European law I cannot see how this is possible.

The aim of keeping your home based players home based is laudable but this is clearly against the spirit if not the law on Bosman

This was answered earlier, they cannot stop the transfer, but under the terms of the RSA, the WRU can fine ANY Region that breaks part of said agreement.

Still clearly against the spirit of Bosman and would be open to legal challenge.  The player has the right to transfer.  Anything impeding this is a restraint of trade.  I am sure the WRU lawyers have had a good look at this but it seems really weird and unethical to me.

Sorry for not reading all the thread

It is basically the same as the North ruling, the PRL couldn't stop North going to the Welsh squad sessions as that was in his contract with Northampton, yet they fined the Saints IIRC £30,000, the Dragons could do the same.

Its not really the same as there was no restraint of trade in the North case

To be honest IF Toby wants to play for Wales again, then the last thing he would want to do is start going down the legal route.

After all Gatland can legally not select him because he does not believe he is the 'best fit' for the position. And you would have to believe the WRU would be unlikely to want to pay someone to play for them that has already dragged them through the courts.

I might have misunderstood something, but I thought Bosman was about clubs stopping players from leaving for another club AFTER their contract finished. It allows for free movement (no transfer fee) when a player's contract is up. I fail to see how it applies now. but I don't know the details, in either case.

TJ wrote:

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:I find this both a very strange decision and also completely outrageous. I hope he gets some good legal advice 'cos under European law I cannot see how this is possible.

The aim of keeping your home based players home based is laudable but this is clearly against the spirit if not the law on Bosman

This was answered earlier, they cannot stop the transfer, but under the terms of the RSA, the WRU can fine ANY Region that breaks part of said agreement.

Still clearly against the spirit of Bosman and would be open to legal challenge.  The player has the right to transfer.  Anything impeding this is a restraint of trade.  I am sure the WRU lawyers have had a good look at this but it seems really weird and unethical to me.

Sorry for not reading all the thread

He has a year left on his contract though. So under employment law the Dragons can hold him to it if they want. He just wants to leave early.

Does Faletau want to leave early? I don't remember him saying so. Though what he has done is keep his options open, which is smart for a player who is in high demand. If he was that keen on getting out of Rodney Parade I think he would have done so in 2013, around the time Bath and Toulouse were willing to give him a huge lump sum for his services.

mikey_dragon wrote:Does Faletau want to leave early? I don't remember him saying so. Though what he has done is keep his options open, which is smart for a player who is in high demand. If he was that keen on getting out of Rodney Parade I think he would have done so in 2013, around the time Bath and Toulouse were willing to give him a huge lump sum for his services.

I was thinking the same thing to be honest. This is pretty similar to the North situation, however with the RSA in place it means we have been spared the Blues To Buy Faletau stuff. Also the reason the move may have been blocked is because Toby doesn't want to go?

Thankfully, in a Press Conference this afternoon Stuart Davies Dragons CEO, has said they would not be going down the legal route and Taulupe would be in the Dragons squad for their game against the Scarlets this weekend.
I just hope the WRU, Dragons and Taulupe can work out their differences between now and the end of the season and a DC ensues.

mikey_dragon wrote:Does Faletau want to leave early? I don't remember him saying so. Though what he has done is keep his options open, which is smart for a player who is in high demand. If he was that keen on getting out of Rodney Parade I think he would have done so in 2013, around the time Bath and Toulouse were willing to give him a huge lump sum for his services.

He has been in talks with Bath previously, and now again with a year to go on the contract. He's 'asked permission to speak to them'. So I'd say that yes he wants to leave early. Why else would he bother? Just my hunch though - I may be wrong.

I'd say he wanted to hear about the offer, so he could consider it. It's just another option to consider. He may decide at the end of this season that he does want a dual contract with the union after all. But of course, that's just my hunch!

Fanster wrote:This is pretty much whats wrong with Welsh rugby, the second we exit the RWC, and before the tournament is even over the vitriol starts...

How about we actually wait to see whats actually happening before we start the 'WRU apologists' and 'supposed regional' fan insults.

I for one want Falatau to stay in Wales, and see players like North, Davies return, I want to see the 4 regions grow and actually progress as teams, which they've failed to do since inception.

I don't support a specific region, but if Falatau moved to Cardiff it would at least see some quality not move from Wales, maybe we need to invest in the 2 flagship regions of Blues and Ospreys?

What? flagship regions? Are you referring to that hot bed of mediocrity that is the Cardiff Blues? Perhaps you have been dazzled by all the silverware in their cabinet.

The situation with Faletau is symptomatic of the ongoing problem in Welsh rugby - the deep mistrust between an inept union and 4 equally inept benefactor run "regions".

The RSA just papered over the cracks. Little has changed, amateur mindsets, no vision, weak leadership, no long term plan. With players stuck in the middle.

It staggers me that this srt of thing can still be happenning. What an embarrassing mess.

How can Faletau be held to ransom if both he and his employers want to part ways? The fact that someone who coaches him 13 times a year has so much power in this lads future is ridiculous.

PRW need to show some steel and start doing what they want. Faletau ould even buy himself out of the contract, with Bath covering the bill. If he leaves in May, then Dragons will have lost out on 150k, and Faletau would have lost out on possible earnings. For what? So Faletau can play in the England v Wales match being held on the same weekend as the Pro12 final?

Rugby is being wrecked by the Unions into submission.

Wouldn't put it past Bath currently to buy him out having to play for Wales either. Lot of money to persuade a retirement, especially with Burgess' rumoured departure.

offload wrote:The situation with Faletau is symptomatic of the ongoing problem in Welsh rugby - the deep mistrust between an inept union and 4 equally inept benefactor run "regions".  

The RSA just papered over the cracks.  Little has changed, amateur mindsets, no vision, weak leadership, no long term plan.  With players stuck in the middle.

A bizarre post, given that this whole situation has arisen because the Dragons tried to pursue an option that made good financial sense in the circumstances.

Chunky Norwich wrote:It staggers me that this srt of thing can still be happenning. What an embarrassing mess.

How can Faletau be held to ransom if both he and his employers want to part ways? The fact that someone who coaches him 13 times a year has so much power in this lads future is ridiculous.

PRW need to show some steel and start doing what they want. Faletau ould even buy himself out of the contract, with Bath covering the bill. If he leaves in May, then Dragons will have lost out on 150k, and Faletau would have lost out on possible earnings. For what? So Faletau can play in the England v Wales match being held on the same weekend as the Pro12 final?

Rugby is being wrecked by the Unions into submission.

Massively this. Cement being able to so decisively affect the running of a private business for his own short term gain is absurd. As for PRW, they might want to have a word with Peter Pies, who has added their reputation to this collective turd that won't flush with his 'audacious bid' this morning.

For his own short term gain

mikey_dragon wrote:For his own short term gain

Care to write why it isn't in something more intelligent than a smiley
?

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:For his own short term gain

Care to write why it isn't in something more intelligent than a smiley
?

No, I still find that pretty amusing. Toby might not be allowed to call for his mates now, because he spoke to people at Bath RFC - Gatland said so.



Okay, I'll give it a go. The top priority should be keeping internationals in Wales for as long as possible and spread out across four teams. Good move by WRU. Stuart Davies should have left the discussions to Toby, Bath and the WRU/Gatland - he should have kept his mouth shut instead of going out and trying to fetch a good price.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:For his own short term gain

Care to write why it isn't in something more intelligent than a smiley
?

No, I still find that pretty amusing. Toby might not be allowed to call for his mates now, because he spoke to people at Bath RFC - Gatland said so.

Okay, I'll give it a go. The top priority should be keeping internationals in Wales for as long as possible and spread out across four teams. Good move by WRU. Stuart Davies should have left the discussions to Toby, Bath and the WRU/Gatland - he should have kept his mouth shut instead of going out and trying to fetch a good price.

That's half witted on any number of levels, but let's try and stick to why you don't think Cement Head has blocked this move for purely selfish reasons. Any clarification on that?

Stone Motif wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:It staggers me that this srt of thing can still be happenning. What an embarrassing mess.

How can Faletau be held to ransom if both he and his employers want to part ways? The fact that someone who coaches him 13 times a year has so much power in this lads future is ridiculous.

PRW need to show some steel and start doing what they want. Faletau ould even buy himself out of the contract, with Bath covering the bill. If he leaves in May, then Dragons will have lost out on 150k, and Faletau would have lost out on possible earnings. For what? So Faletau can play in the England v Wales match being held on the same weekend as the Pro12 final?

Rugby is being wrecked by the Unions into submission.

Massively this. Cement being able to so decisively affect the running of a private business for his own short term gain is absurd. As for PRW, they might want to have a word with Peter Pies, who has added their reputation to this collective turd that won't flush with his 'audacious bid' this morning.

Do you mind?

"Peter Thomas, awarded a CBE for services to entrepreneurship, sport and charity."

Faletau to Cardiff would spice things up a bit though.

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:For his own short term gain

Care to write why it isn't in something more intelligent than a smiley
?

No, I still find that pretty amusing. Toby might not be allowed to call for his mates now, because he spoke to people at Bath RFC - Gatland said so.

Okay, I'll give it a go. The top priority should be keeping internationals in Wales for as long as possible and spread out across four teams. Good move by WRU. Stuart Davies should have left the discussions to Toby, Bath and the WRU/Gatland - he should have kept his mouth shut instead of going out and trying to fetch a good price.

That's half witted on any number of levels, but let's try and stick to why you don't think Cement Head has blocked this move for purely selfish reasons. Any clarification on that?

If anything, it is NOT selfish to want what's best for Wales and the regions.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:For his own short term gain

Care to write why it isn't in something more intelligent than a smiley
?

No, I still find that pretty amusing. Toby might not be allowed to call for his mates now, because he spoke to people at Bath RFC - Gatland said so.

Okay, I'll give it a go. The top priority should be keeping internationals in Wales for as long as possible and spread out across four teams. Good move by WRU. Stuart Davies should have left the discussions to Toby, Bath and the WRU/Gatland - he should have kept his mouth shut instead of going out and trying to fetch a good price.

That's half witted on any number of levels, but let's try and stick to why you don't think Cement Head has blocked this move for purely selfish reasons. Any clarification on that?

If anything, it is NOT selfish to want what's best for Wales and the regions.

What's best for the Drags though?