Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 6:41 am

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Edinbu11

Agen v Edinburgh Rugby
Friday 20 November 2015
KO: 19:30
Stade Armandie, Agen

Probably not very good, so not on television
Referee Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland) Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Gaah10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Gaah10

Touch Judge 1 Nigel Correll (Ireland)
Touch Judge 2 Mark Connolly (Ireland)
Fourth Official Maxime Rouquié (France)

A. Head to Head

#These teams are meeting for the first time.

B. Recent European Form

Agen

14 November 2015
London Irish 48 - 10 Agen

Edinburgh Rugby

13 November 2015
Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 10 Grenoble

C. Teams

Agen
Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Noraar10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Noraar10

15 François Tardieu
14 Leka Tagotago
13 Pierre Fouyssac
12 Julien Heriteau
11 Filipo Nakosi
10 François Bouvier
09 Clement Darbo (capt)

01 Quentin Bethune
02 Marc Barthomeuf
03 Nicolas Chocou
04 Jean-Baptiste Roidot
05 Léo Bastien
06 Sione Tau
07 Antoine Miquel
08 Marc Baget

16 Florian Dufour
17 Viliamu Afatia
18 Dave Ryan
19 Corentin Braendlin
20 Felicien Vergnon
21 Baptiste Cadiou
22 Timothé Guillimin
23 Benoit Sicart

Edinburgh Rugby
Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Katie_10

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November Katie_10

15 Dougie Fife
14 Tom Brown
13 Will Helu
12 Matt Scott
11 Otulea Katoa
10 Greig Tonks
09 Sean Kennedy

01 Al Dickinson
02 Ross Ford (c)
03 Willem Nel
04 Anton Bresler
05 Fraser McKenzie
06 Nasi Manu
07 John Hardie
08 Cornell du Preez

16 Neil Cochrane
17 Rory Sutherland
18 Simon Berghan
19 Alex Toolis
20 Jamie Ritchie
21 Nathan Fowles
22 Blair Kinghorn
23 Chris Dean

by **RDW** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 7:39 am

Well Agen got a pumping from London Irish - one of the worst teams in the AP just now - which perhaps shows their attitude to the tournament. Saying that, I don't think we can take much from any French team's performance this weekend, understandably so, and they will no doubt want to put in a good performance at home.

If Edinburgh win this though we're in the driving seat set up nicely for our double header with London Irish.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 7:44 am

Who is the Edinburgh representative??

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 7:52 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who is the Edinburgh representative??

Ms Katie Leung. 10 house points to Gryffindor to anyone who got that.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 8:00 am

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Who is the Edinburgh representative??
Ms Katie Leung. 10 house points to Gryffindor to anyone who got that.

A few issues with that:

- she really irritated me in the films
- IMBD says she was born in Dundee and grew up in Motherwell
- Cho Chang was Ravenclaw

thumbsup

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:05 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Who is the Edinburgh representative??
Ms Katie Leung. 10 house points to Gryffindor to anyone who got that.

A few issues with that:

- she really irritated me in the films
- IMBD says she was born in Dundee and grew up in Motherwell
- Cho Chang was Ravenclaw

Ok, we're reaching a new low here. Harry Potter banter.

Hopefully we can take these guys and restart our season after the Zebre and Munster debacles. I quite liked the team against Grenoble, so perhaps just more of the same.

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:24 am

Edinburgh should suspend their cross-channel fuzzy feelings towards our French cousins for 80 minutes and beat them like they just said that our wives had chubby ankles.

No excuses for avoiding the TBP win this time. Just the sort of game that does get a season back on track. With the pack Edinburgh have, they should eat them. Edinburgh need to assign goalkicking duties to one regular starter (Clyne would be fine) and just tell him to practice until he keels over with exhaustion. With the number of scrum penalties they will win this season, having a 70% plus goalkicker will be difference between placing top 6 or not. Horrible to see points left out there.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:28 am

I've already lost count of the points we've left on the table this season. It's not just about having a reliable goal kicker, we have to become more ruthless at scoring tries and getting exciting players like Hoyland some ball.

The biggest threat to an Edinburgh win (other than the Gibbon) is ourselves, and our ability to lose all cohesion in the backline when it would be harder not to score.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:50 am

Hidalgo-Clyne had a kicking % in the 80s last season so now that he's had a few games to find his feet I don't see it being a problem for us.

He's certainly taken his time to regain some form after the world cup - no surprise really since he's spent 5 months basically holding tackle bags and watching others play rugby.

by **George Carlin** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:09 am

Are we ready to query whether Solomons is actually able to competently coach a backline? Isn't there a specialist attack coach? What is Chris Paterson doing at present?

by **RDW** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:13 am

George Carlin wrote:Are we ready to query whether Solomons is actually able to competently coach a backline? Isn't there a specialist attack coach? What is Chris Paterson doing at present?

A - yes, and he's not very good at it

B - Duncan Hodge joined Edinburgh after the world cup

C - being a legend

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:18 am

Is it this season that Solly's contract is up?

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:46 am

In answer to my own question. Yes.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:47 am

Yeah he signed a 12 month extension in May.

I think it will be time for him to move on after that, and I'd be happy to see Stevie Scott given the head coach role. Maybe bring in Hines as forwards coach to work under Scott and improve his experience.

Stevie Scott has certainly served his apprenticeship as an assistant coach - he's given us a hell of a good pack.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:50 am

We should take Toonie when Solomons leaves. I think he's ready to make the step up.

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:59 am

I know this isn't really relevant to this thread, apologies to all Agen fans. Whilst I would be fully supportive of Stevie getting the nod to replace Solly, however if that doesn’t happen (for whatever reason), would it be worth approaching Lancaster?

Before I’m booed out the room, at least hear my rationale.

1. We have previous with former failed England managers
2. He has a wealth of experience, especially in bringing through young players
3. Ok I only have 2 reasons, so clearly not a very conclusive suggestion, but I was just putting it out there as a conversation topic.

Yes, ideally a coaching setup of Stevie, Hodge and perhaps Hines (as you say RDW) to support whilst not involved with Scotland, would be the preferred option as it would bring through some young Scottish coaches and show there is a pathway, but if we ignore this obvious and potentially ideal solution….Lancaster anyone?

by **RDW** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:13 am

Lancaster would be a great shout but I suspect he'll be given a good job in the RFU.

Saying that, he might fancy a break from the RFU circus for a few years and get back to proper coaching.

I'd certainly happily have him as coach.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:37 am

Nah, I'm not too bothered about Lancaster. I'd happily have him in Scott Johnson's job, but not as a frontline coach. He's not like Andy Robinson, a world class forwards coach who had seen it and done it all, albeit a muppet as a selector. Lancaster lost his head at the World Cup. He can stay behind his desk at the RFU.

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:45 am

Well I think we'd all rather have someone else in Scott Johnson's job other than Scott Johnson, and Lancaster might be ideal for that role

He might have lost his head at the WC, but coaching Edinburgh would be far less pressured than coaching the host nation at the biggest rugby competition. I wouldn't hold that against him for the role as it would be totally different circumstances. As I said though I think Stevie & Co would be the best option but as a plan B Lancaster would be a decent enough option I think.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:48 am

Would Edinbrugh benefit from a DoR as opposed to a head coach leading things? Do we need that is the SRU already have a DoR (even if he's useless)?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:53 am

I'd have him in Scott Johnson's job. Not just because Johnson is a nobcheese, but because that sort of role really lends itself to Lancaster's skillset. He's supremely organised and, until the World Cup, clear headed. He'd be great at revolutionising systems and structures, and lending support to the Head Coaches at Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The man to replace Solomons needs to be a coach, first and foremost. A coach with a vision to take Edinburgh rugby to the next level and with experience of coaching at this level. Solomons has done his job, and he has certainly taken Edinburgh forward. I would have no issue with Stevie Scott taking on the role, but I don't want a coronation. We should also be looking to see who is out there, and achieve the right blend of experience across the Edinburgh coaching panel.

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:13 am

A DoR would make sense, as they could dictate the style of play of the team. Edinburgh have flipped from all out attack under Bradley to massively conservative under Solly, where a DoR could say “this is the culture of the club and how we will play”, and then the coaches can build around that.

Sorry to use some football references here, but Southhampton have this, they replace managers/coaches but the ones coming in have to have the same philosophy as the club and buy into what they are trying to achieve, so even if a coach moves on, the club doesn’t have to reinvent itself again.

There is an argument to be made that if we look at the bigger picture, then the DoR should be at SRU level, they would then agree the style of play the national coach wants to play (in conjunction with the pro side coaches) and then this would be the style of rugby played by both Edinburgh, Glasgow & Scotland which is the model German football follows. This then allows players to step up to international level without having to learn a new style of play etc as they are playing that way week in week out.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:21 am

Lancaster has a lot of grass roots rugby coaching and development experience so he's probably well suited to the role Johnson currently has at Murrayfield more so than being solely head coach of a pro team but his all round c.v would suit a less cash rich union such as the SRU who need value for money in their appointments (ie people who can take on more than one role/responsibility). And being an ex Scotland U21 player his heart obviously isn't at Twickenham....

by **RDW** Wed 18 Nov 2015, 7:50 am

Jamie Ritchie is getting a run out for this game apparently - sounds like Solomons will be rotating the squad a bit.

by EWT Spoons Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:44 am

Not on tv is it?

by **RDW** Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:52 am

by EWT Spoons Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:45 am

Shame. Cheers for confirming though

by EWT Spoons Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:37 am

Think it might actually be being shown somewhere, on a Very Important (see what I did there) streaming site there is a link to the game.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:42 am

Unfortunately that doesn't always mean there is a stream - they just set a link up in advance.

Edinburgh say there isn't any live coverage.

by EWT Spoons Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

dammit, you couldn't let me have the joy for just a wee bit longer could you! Hopes and dreams crushed ruthlessly!
Smile

by **George Carlin** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:48 am

Official preview. Note how much Agen seem to be struggling at home.

PREVIEW: Agen look to bounce back against Edinburgh

Agen must bounce back from their heavy opening round defeat to London Irish against Edinburgh or risk leaving themselves with a huge task to qualify from pool 5.

The French side conceded eight tries against the Exiles but will be hoping for better things when they play their first home game of the new campaign on Friday night, despite their mixed form at the Stade Armandie.

Agen have won only three of their last seven matches on home soil, though they have won their two most recent fixtures there.

There is likely to be an emotionally-charged atmosphere given the recent tragic events in France and Edinburgh back-row Jamie Ritchie admits they must not let the circumstances take away their focus from the game.

Ritchie said: "We will pay our respects when we get there, but I don't think we can get too much into the emotional side of things. We have to take ourselves away from that and concentrate on the game.

"Of course we will pay our respects because it was a devastating thing that happened, but for us it is about concentrating on our rugby. The boys will be focused on the game and that will be the main thing going into the fixture."

Edinburgh continued their excellent form in the Challenge Cup with a 28-10 win over pool 5 rivals Grenoble in week one but they failed to pick up a fourth try for a bonus point.

Match Facts
- Agen have played just once against Scottish opposition in the Challenge Cup, beating Glasgow Warriors 34-23 in 1996.
- Agen have won only three of their last seven matches on home soil, though they won their most recent two home games.
- Edinburgh have won nine of their last 11 matches in the competition including three of their last four away games.
- The Scottish side have won six of their last seven matches against French opposition in the Challenge Cup.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 11:50 am

EWT Spoons wrote:dammit, you couldn't let me have the joy for just a wee bit longer could you! Hopes and dreams crushed ruthlessly!

You need to aim higher with your hopes and dreams!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:17 pm

George Carlin wrote:Official preview. Note how much Agen seem to be struggling at home.
PREVIEW: Agen look to bounce back against Edinburgh

Agen must bounce back from their heavy opening round defeat to London Irish against Edinburgh or risk leaving themselves with a huge task to qualify from pool 5.

The French side conceded eight tries against the Exiles but will be hoping for better things when they play their first home game of the new campaign on Friday night, despite their mixed form at the Stade Armandie.

Agen have won only three of their last seven matches on home soil, though they have won their two most recent fixtures there.

There is likely to be an emotionally-charged atmosphere given the recent tragic events in France and Edinburgh back-row Jamie Ritchie admits they must not let the circumstances take away their focus from the game.

Ritchie said: "We will pay our respects when we get there, but I don't think we can get too much into the emotional side of things. We have to take ourselves away from that and concentrate on the game.

"Of course we will pay our respects because it was a devastating thing that happened, but for us it is about concentrating on our rugby. The boys will be focused on the game and that will be the main thing going into the fixture."

Edinburgh continued their excellent form in the Challenge Cup with a 28-10 win over pool 5 rivals Grenoble in week one but they failed to pick up a fourth try for a bonus point.

Match Facts
- Agen have played just once against Scottish opposition in the Challenge Cup, beating Glasgow Warriors 34-23 in 1996.
- Agen have won only three of their last seven matches on home soil, though they won their most recent two home games.
- Edinburgh have won nine of their last 11 matches in the competition including three of their last four away games.
- The Scottish side have won six of their last seven matches against French opposition in the Challenge Cup.

That "match fact" should come with a disclaimer: Glasgow were completely and utterly mince back then (albeit Edinburgh were actually worse!). Glasgow lost 76-9 to Montferrand that season.

The Glasgow team for that Agen game:

15 Cameron Little
14 Glenn Metcalfe
13 Alan Bulloch
12 Craig Sangster
11 James Craig
10 Andrew Garry
9 Jamie Weston
1 Alan Perrie
2 Gordon Bulloch (capt)
3 Brian Robertson
4 Stephen Begley
5 Malcolm Norval
6 Fergus Wallace
7 John Shaw
8 David McLeish

That's what our teams looked like with four domestic teams. Notably James Craig scored two that day. Probably the quickest Scotland player I can remember.

by MacKnocked-on Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:43 pm

Few names there I don't even remember, I must be getting old. Metcalfe was one of my all time favourite Scotland players though, if only all imports were as good as him.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:50 pm

Team is up

Challenge Cup Pool 5: Agen v Edinburgh Rugby, 20 November V_agen.jpg

That is one hell of a physical pack.

by VinceWLB Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:08 pm

That is quite a pack indeed and i wouldn't fear any team in Europe with it to be fair.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:08 pm

Just a shame we don't have the backs to match it!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:11 pm

Love that team, and I like the bench as well. Well done to James Ritchie for getting on there.

I'd forgotten all about Katoa. I wonder what he'll be like?

Goal kicking is my only concern there. Tonks' goal kicking reminds me of my own abilities at darts - no-one in the pub is safe!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:19 pm

Just noticed that Agen let Sean Maitland score against them in the last match! Shocked

That means WP Nel will score at least two.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:22 pm

Tonks' kicking hasn't actually been too bad this season. Fowles started the season kicking well but has had a few howlers since.

Tonks was 100% against Ulster I think.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tonks' kicking hasn't actually been too bad this season. Fowles started the season kicking well but has had a few howlers since.

Tonks was 100% against Ulster I think.

I'm yet to be convinced. He's probably got a decent range though, as his kicking from hand is huge.

I'm slightly surprised Fowles isn't starting ahead of Kennedy.

by **George Carlin** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:34 pm

OP updated.

Lots of wonderful, traditional French names in that team like Jean-Baptiste Roidot, Baptiste Cadiou, Florian Dufour, Pierre Fouyssac and, er, Dave Ryan.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:41 pm

Accordingly to Wikipedia....Dave Ryan used to play for Lazio. Good footballer then.....

by **RDW** Thu 19 Nov 2015, 1:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Tonks' kicking hasn't actually been too bad this season. Fowles started the season kicking well but has had a few howlers since.

Tonks was 100% against Ulster I think.

I'm yet to be convinced. He's probably got a decent range though, as his kicking from hand is huge.

I'm slightly surprised Fowles isn't starting ahead of Kennedy.

I'd be more convinced if Hidalgo-Clyne was kicking, but I do remember being pleasantly surprised when Tonks has been kicking recently.

Agreed on Kennedy - he's been poor whenever I've seen him play this season.

by R!skysports Thu 19 Nov 2015, 2:22 pm

Isn't that an oven?

by EWT Spoons Fri 20 Nov 2015, 10:45 am

It's the usual format for Edinburgh then I guess tonight. Amazing set of forwards, but very little in the backs.

Will be interesting to see how Katoa gets on.

Also does anyone else find it odd that we have 2 Fullbacks on the pitch, neither of whom are playing FB? Seems odd that Brown, who has played at Fullback quite a bit and done well there, isn't playing there and Fife, who i don't believe has played at 15, is.

Anyway, I suspect we'll struggle through and win this game, but it will be fairly dull and we won't get a TBP.

by jimbopip Fri 20 Nov 2015, 10:58 am

EWT Spoons wrote:It's the usual format for Edinburgh then I guess tonight. Amazing set of forwards, but very little in the backs.

Will be interesting to see how Katoa gets on.

Also does anyone else find it odd that we have 2 Fullbacks on the pitch, neither of whom are playing FB? Seems odd that Brown, who has played at Fullback quite a bit and done well there, isn't playing there and Fife, who i don't believe has played at 15, is.

Anyway, I suspect we'll struggle through and win this game, but it will be fairly dull and we won't get a TBP.

You could say that about 35% of your season. Then use the one about "poor reffing cost us the game" for the remaining 65%.

by **RDW** Fri 20 Nov 2015, 10:58 am

EWT Spoons wrote: I suspect we'll struggle through and win this game, but it will be fairly dull and we won't get a TBP.

Pretty much!

by funnyExiledScot Fri 20 Nov 2015, 1:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote: I suspect we'll struggle through and win this game, but it will be fairly dull and we won't get a TBP.

Pretty much!

Agreed! 18-9 or something like that. Mainly penalties with a grievance that we should have had a penalty try.

by TJ Fri 20 Nov 2015, 6:23 pm

I can't even find a radio commentary for this - anyone?

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