Healy Cited

by nathan Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Cian Healy has been cited, do people think he'll get a couple of weeks off?

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/healy-cited-for-knee-strike/

by lostinwales Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:06 pm

Can't help wondering what the response on here would be like if the protagonist was called Hartley instead of Healy

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:15 pm

lostinwales wrote:Can't help wondering what the response on here would be like if the protagonist was called Hartley instead of Healy

I've never really given Hartley a hard time. In fact I defended him when he was accused of the headbutt that cost him his place in the Lions, and honestly felt bad for the guy.

He's an excellent player, when on form, but he does suffer from bouts of stupid.

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:18 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It looked to me that Healy connected using his vastus lateralus (above the knee), but it was more a push than strike. It wasn't that connection that Guirado reacted to. Guirado fell back and hit the back of his head against the side of the knee of another player.

If they start dishing out red cards for vastus lateralus strikes, it won't be long before players are cited for dangerous use of the gluteus maximus

Russell Crowe played that part in Gladiator didn't he?

I think that's the part he plays in real life

Maybe he should give up the Rabbitohs for Sorearsesins?

I shouldn't laugh after the hammering they gave us, but it deserves it.

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:23 pm

yappysnap wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It looked to me that Healy connected using his vastus lateralus (above the knee), but it was more a push than strike. It wasn't that connection that Guirado reacted to. Guirado fell back and hit the back of his head against the side of the knee of another player.

If they start dishing out red cards for vastus lateralus strikes, it won't be long before players are cited for dangerous use of the gluteus maximus

Is that not similar to attempting to strike someone with a fist but hitting them with your forearm? I don't think that'd be allowed.

I suppose if it was a deliberate smash it could be, but it would be stretching it to call it that. The reaction of Guirado doesn't tell us anything about the initial contact. He does respond to hitting the back of his head of the side of another players knee.

I think the real point is that he was cited for the wrong reason.

by Heaf Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:25 pm

Can't think why he was trying to push a player back in when it looked like he was trying to move away though?

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It looked to me that Healy connected using his vastus lateralus (above the knee), but it was more a push than strike. It wasn't that connection that Guirado reacted to. Guirado fell back and hit the back of his head against the side of the knee of another player.

If they start dishing out red cards for vastus lateralus strikes, it won't be long before players are cited for dangerous use of the gluteus maximus

It looked like Healy was trying to push Guirado back into the ruck but didn't do a very good job of it but Toulon all game were slow getting away from the rucks trying to slow Leinster players getting there

Exactly. He made a mess of it, and Guirado shouldn't have been there in the first place. It was still stupid of him though, and I wouldn't have any grumble about the yellow. If the citing had simply been for reckless play, i wouldn't grumble about that either.

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2015, 11:28 pm

Heaf wrote:Can't think why he was trying to push a player back in when it looked like he was trying to move away though?

I don't think he was trying to push him back in. I think he was running his natural line, but he did so knowing Guirado was there, and so it was reckless. Guirado shouldn't have been there, and he should have got out of the way, but two wrongs don't make a right.

by yappysnap Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:28 am

Oh well, I hope the appeal works.

As someone else said if they'd just gone with reckless play then the ban would make sense, as it is it's a bit of a farce.

Hopefully Healy will be back and at his best soon as, as an outsider he's good to watch (when on form).

by lostinwales Fri 18 Dec 2015, 9:54 am

Munchkin wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Can't help wondering what the response on here would be like if the protagonist was called Hartley instead of Healy

I've never really given Hartley a hard time. In fact I defended him when he was accused of the headbutt that cost him his place in the Lions, and honestly felt bad for the guy.

He's an excellent player, when on form, but he does suffer from bouts of stupid.

I'd say the same about Healy

by **LondonTiger** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 10:08 am

Munchkin wrote:I've never really given Hartley a hard time. In fact I defended him when he was accused of the headbutt that cost him his place in the Lions, and honestly felt bad for the guy.

"Headbutt" cost him RWC spot. Lost Lions spot for calling the ref a "f***ing cheat"

by Guest Fri 18 Dec 2015, 10:26 am

True, Tiger. Mixing them up. I don't think the headbutt was really a headbutt, although abusing the ref was very stupid.
If he's made England captain it will be interesting to see how he takes to the role. Personally, I think he will prove a good captain.

by Guest Fri 18 Dec 2015, 10:27 am

lostinwales wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Can't help wondering what the response on here would be like if the protagonist was called Hartley instead of Healy

I've never really given Hartley a hard time. In fact I defended him when he was accused of the headbutt that cost him his place in the Lions, and honestly felt bad for the guy.

He's an excellent player, when on form, but he does suffer from bouts of stupid.

I'd say the same about Healy

Yes, Healy can do stupid. Less so, but still stupid.

by Guest Fri 18 Dec 2015, 10:53 am

yappysnap wrote:Oh well, I hope the appeal works.

As someone else said if they'd just gone with reckless play then the ban would make sense, as it is it's a bit of a farce.

Hopefully Healy will be back and at his best soon as, as an outsider he's good to watch (when on form).

He has been struggling to find form since his injury, and at the moment he isn't best in his position.

Citing commissions can be a bit of a farce. One ruling that winds me up is having a week reduced for previous good record, and then having a week added on to act as a deterrent for others.

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:11 pm

cleared

what a pathetic joke

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:20 pm

Yeah it's a disgrace that Leinsters preparation has been disrupted like this.He has been found not guilty of striking with the knee so that should be it.

I guess it's not just the Pro12 that has problems huh Chunky?

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:27 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah it's a disgrace that Leinsters preparation has been disrupted like this.He has been found not guilty of striking with the knee so that should be it.

I guess it's not just the Pro12 that has problems huh Chunky?

Whoever has the most disgusting lawyers that want to screw over anybody just to get the right result no matter what wins.

by **Notch** Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:29 pm

So... Nigel Owens has been vindicated?

by Guest Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:30 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah it's a disgrace that Leinsters preparation has been disrupted like this.He has been found not guilty of striking with the knee so that should be it.

I guess it's not just the Pro12 that has problems huh Chunky?

Whoever has the most disgusting lawyers that want to screw over anybody just to get the right result no matter what wins.

You're wrong, yet again.

Healy hasn't been cleared. His suspension has been lifted until the citing panel has judged on the appeal.

....then he will be cleared.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:43 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah it's a disgrace that Leinsters preparation has been disrupted like this.He has been found not guilty of striking with the knee so that should be it.

I guess it's not just the Pro12 that has problems huh Chunky?

Whoever has the most disgusting lawyers that want to screw over anybody just to get the right result no matter what wins.

What's the right result in your eyes,ban the Irishman,any Irishman just ban them all and be done with it!Let it out we all know that's how you feel.

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:59 pm

What Healy did was dangerous. It deserved a few weeks. If Pascal Pape did that he'd have a sit down.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:04 pm

So it has nothing to do with him being Irish,I look forward to your posts highlighting these miscarriages of justice when they involve people of other nationalities.

Look we all know you're a bigot,but you're our bigot so it's okay relax and let it out.

by marty2086 Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:What Healy did was dangerous. It deserved a few weeks. If Pascal Pape did that he'd have a sit down.

What Healy did was more stupid than anything and was no more dangerous laying behind the ruck

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:11 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:So it has nothing to do with him being Irish,I look forward to your posts highlighting these miscarriages of justice when they involve people of other nationalities.

Look we all know you're a bigot,but you're our bigot so it's okay relax and let it out.

And you're a racist.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:52 pm

Yes I am,I admit it,it's the Scandinavians that get me,I just can't stand those smug feckers with their wealth,good looks and fantastic health and education systems.The Meat trombone soloist.

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 8:54 pm

Well if you're going to play the game of "chuck spurious unfounded insults at people", expect others to join in.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 18 Dec 2015, 9:28 pm

Of course I expect nothing less from you Chunky,keep up kicking the Irish whenever you can.

by Chunky Norwich Fri 18 Dec 2015, 9:43 pm

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 12:31 am

Shame we have to attack a poster still. The mods haven't banned him yet, so either they have to do that or people shouldn't swarm together on him. Have to love a holier than thou attitude, whilst people are prepared to be just as disruptive on threads.

by eirebilly Sat 19 Dec 2015, 9:18 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:What Healy did was dangerous. It deserved a few weeks. If Pascal Pape did that he'd have a sit down.

It was stupid and by default dangerous. I was expecting around 4 weeks myself. Personally, I am all for club punishments as well so if I was the Leinster management, I would make him sit out a couple of games as that sort of thing can cost matches and lets his teammates down.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 10:53 am

eirebilly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:What Healy did was dangerous. It deserved a few weeks. If Pascal Pape did that he'd have a sit down.

It was stupid and by default dangerous. I was expecting around 4 weeks myself. Personally, I am all for club punishments as well so if I was the Leinster management, I would make him sit out a couple of games as that sort of thing can cost matches and lets his teammates down.

Yes that would be the Irish way. Appeal a ban, then ban the player?

Interesting to see the Twitter reaction to this

https://twitter.com/AllForRugby1/status/677935323431702528

by eirebilly Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:03 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:What Healy did was dangerous. It deserved a few weeks. If Pascal Pape did that he'd have a sit down.

It was stupid and by default dangerous. I was expecting around 4 weeks myself. Personally, I am all for club punishments as well so if I was the Leinster management, I would make him sit out a couple of games as that sort of thing can cost matches and lets his teammates down.

Yes that would be the Irish way. Appeal a ban, then ban the player?

Interesting to see the Twitter reaction to this

https://twitter.com/AllForRugby1/status/677935323431702528

Am no, I would not have appealed the ban either. I just believe in discipline which is why I said if I was the club, I would make him sit out a couple of matches on top of any ban as its the only way certain players will learn.

You do not cover yourself in much glory sometimes Chunky, even when people are actually agreeing with you, you have to have a dig.

by VinceWLB Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:06 am

Only just watched the replay, that looked pretty bad. Guirado could well have been knocked out twice in a space of 5 tenth of a second.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:06 am

eirebilly wrote:

Am no, I would not have appealed the ban either. I just believe in discipline which is why I said if I was the club, I would make him sit out a couple of matches on top of any ban as its the only way certain players will learn.

You do not cover yourself in much glory sometimes Chunky, even when people are actually agreeing with you, you have to have a dig.

It's not a dig. I appreciate what your saying, but if you look at how the Irish conduct themselves in disciplinary hearings to try and twist everything to their advantage and escape a player ban, then you can probably take a guess as to whether they'd have a self imposed ban or not. There's more chance of finding rocking horse sh1t.

by eirebilly Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:09 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:

It's not a dig. I appreciate what your saying, but if you look at how the Irish conduct themselves in disciplinary hearings to try and twist everything to their advantage and escape a player ban, then you can probably take a guess as to whether they'd have a self imposed ban or not. There's more chance of finding rocking horse sh1t.

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation now isn't it. Its not just Irish clubs that defend their players to the hilt when cited, its every club in professional rugby.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:11 am

eirebilly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

It's not a dig. I appreciate what your saying, but if you look at how the Irish conduct themselves in disciplinary hearings to try and twist everything to their advantage and escape a player ban, then you can probably take a guess as to whether they'd have a self imposed ban or not. There's more chance of finding rocking horse sh1t.

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation now isn't it. Its not just Irish clubs that defend their players to the hilt when cited, its every club in professional rugby.

I've not seen (read) rugby lawyers act like the Irish ons do, sorry. The O'Brien hearing the best example.

by eirebilly Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:23 am

Maybe you focus a little too much on the Irish citing's and not enough on the other countries citing's then as I feel all professional clubs do exactly the same.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:32 am

VinceWLB wrote:Only just watched the replay, that looked pretty bad. Guirado could well have been knocked out twice in a space of 5 tenth of a second.

It must look worse than it is... by all accounts it really does look as if Healy catches him in the face with his knee, but apparently his knee didn't connect with the head according to the citing panel. Which means it was nothing more than a push and that is why he has been cleared.

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:36 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Only just watched the replay, that looked pretty bad. Guirado could well have been knocked out twice in a space of 5 tenth of a second.

It must look worse than it is... by all accounts it really does look as if Healy catches him in the face with his knee, but apparently his knee didn't connect with the head according to the citing panel. Which means it was nothing more than a push and that is why he has been cleared.

There's another angle, Rory, that shows he didn't actually connect with the knee.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:37 am

eirebilly wrote:Maybe you focus a little too much on the Irish citing's and not enough on the other countries citing's then as I feel all professional clubs do exactly the same.

Feel free to find me one where the sports lawyer has tried to tell the judicial officer the meaning of the words coming out of his mouth in the manner that Duthie did.

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:39 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Maybe you focus a little too much on the Irish citing's and not enough on the other countries citing's then as I feel all professional clubs do exactly the same.

Feel free to find me one where the sports lawyer has tried to tell the judicial officer the meaning of the words coming out of his mouth in the manner that Duthie did.

Have you a link to this?

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:40 am

Munchkin wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Only just watched the replay, that looked pretty bad. Guirado could well have been knocked out twice in a space of 5 tenth of a second.

It must look worse than it is... by all accounts it really does look as if Healy catches him in the face with his knee, but apparently his knee didn't connect with the head according to the citing panel. Which means it was nothing more than a push and that is why he has been cleared.

There's another angle, Rory, that shows he didn't actually connect with the knee.

Yeah, I thought as much. Which means it was genuinely just a push into the ruck. Nothing to see here, folks.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:42 am

Well hopefully the decision will be upheld, and he'll get the 2 weeks. And hopefully Toulon thrash Leinster.

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:48 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Well hopefully the decision will be upheld, and he'll get the 2 weeks. And hopefully Toulon thrash Leinster.

Do you know how childish that sounds?

Where's the link I asked for?

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:50 am

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Well hopefully the decision will be upheld, and he'll get the 2 weeks. And hopefully Toulon thrash Leinster.

Do you know how childish that sounds?

Where's the link I asked for?

10.7
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/151014_JO_Decision_Sean_O'Brien_(Ireland)%20(1).pdf

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:51 am

"It was urged upon me that I should interpret the word "wholly", in a manner other than it's ordinary meaning"

Shameless *****

That's what rugby has become thanks to people like this. Well done.

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:53 am

Your link doesn't work.

by Guest Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:55 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:"It was urged upon me that I should interpret the word "wholly", in a manner other than it's ordinary meaning"

Shameless *****

That's what rugby has become thanks to people like this. Well done.

Sure you're not confusing this with Dickens?

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 12:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:"It was urged upon me that I should interpret the word "wholly", in a manner other than it's ordinary meaning"

Shameless *****

That's what rugby has become thanks to people like this. Well done.

Sure you're not confusing this with Dickens?

eh?

by Chunky Norwich Sat 19 Dec 2015, 12:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:Your link doesn't work.

http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/test/worldrugby/document/2015/10/14/de9e79fb-d1cf-4d8c-aaf4-184f54bedac3/151014_JO_Decision_Sean_O'Brien_(Ireland).pdf

by Don Alfonso Sat 19 Dec 2015, 12:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
eirebilly wrote:

Am no, I would not have appealed the ban either. I just believe in discipline which is why I said if I was the club, I would make him sit out a couple of matches on top of any ban as its the only way certain players will learn.

You do not cover yourself in much glory sometimes Chunky, even when people are actually agreeing with you, you have to have a dig.

It's not a dig. I appreciate what your saying, but if you look at how the Irish conduct themselves in disciplinary hearings to try and twist everything to their advantage and escape a player ban, then you can probably take a guess as to whether they'd have a self imposed ban or not. There's more chance of finding rocking horse sh1t.

Paul Emerick came in as a medical joker after Andrew Trimble was injured, was given a yellow for a dangerous, dirty tackle and, despite being short on players, Brian McLaughlin wouldn't play him again.

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