The Annual 'Whose injured for 6 Nations' thread

[bedfordwelsh]

So well its getting close now and as ever injuries will play its part as it does in every season/tournament but whose out for your perspective Country at the moment?

For Wales the current list as far as I am aware (please amend where relavent) is:

Samson Lee (I think he's still out isn't he)
Jake Ball
Sam Warburton
Rhys Webb
Scott Williams
Tyler Morgan
Jack Dixon
Liam Williams
Leigh Halfpenny
Hallum Amos
Gareth Anscombe

I know there are some fringe players out as well or those that might have made squad etc but those are the ones who have been in squads of late, again if missed anyone please add.

Ball is out for about 10 weeks I believe but not sure and can be covered by AWJ, Chaerteris and Davies plus giving chance maybe to Thornton. If Lee is out then I guess Francis will get another shot with Jarvis,

Wilson has said Warburton nor Anscombe will be rushed back and if SW is out then the obvious replacement is Tipuric.

The dragons have said at least either Morgan and/or Amos should be back for the Castres game next week.

We know Scott Williams is out for the season as is most likely Halfpenny but Webb should be back before end of 6 nations, what about Liam Williams though any news from the Scarlets camp?

IMO and with those injuries in mind the are of the back 3 could be the biggest concern due to fact that not only is Halfpenny, Williams, Amos and Anscombe won't have much gametime the others such as North and Cuthbert are out of form.

So what back 3 could we see, is Tom James' form enough for a recall, what about Hook or Patchell at XV, what about giving young Hewitt a crack?

Thoughts guys.

[LordDowlais]

Samson Lee played for Scarlets on New Years day, so I would imagine he will be fit, although he looked very fat and out of shape and was blowing when he came off, infact it's the worst I have ever seen him look, some hard work needs to be done over the next few weeks methinks.

[LordDowlais]

Also, I would like to see Hewitt brought into the Welsh squad, he was streets ahead of Cuthbert in the festive fixture at RP.

[bedfordwelsh]

LD,

Cheers for that wasn't sure about him, good to see Cory Allen back for the Blues though and score a try

[LordDowlais]

Cory Allen needs to learn how to tackle, he has great potential, he has pace to burn and he is very strong, he is just a big baby when it comes to defending, if he improves on his defence he could become a major player for Cardiff Blues and Wales.

[Geordie]

England

Ed Slater looked he was putting a marker down to start. Out injured
Johnny May out
Corbisieru - Yes I know its hard to believe.....

[bedfordwelsh]

Cory Allen needs to learn how to tackle, he has great potential, he has pace to burn and he is very strong, he is just a big baby when it comes to defending, if he improves on his defence he could become a major player for Cardiff Blues and Wales.

Allen, North, Cuthbert and James all the same in that department.

[lostinwales]

England

Ed Slater looked he was putting a marker down to start. Out injured
Johnny May out
Corbisieru - Yes I know its hard to believe.....

Dave Ewers
Slade
There was some Samoan bloke who came over here as a kid who used to play a bit too.
Wade? (bit of a long shot)

[LordDowlais]

Cory Allen needs to learn how to tackle, he has great potential, he has pace to burn and he is very strong, he is just a big baby when it comes to defending, if he improves on his defence he could become a major player for Cardiff Blues and Wales.

Allen, North, Cuthbert and James all the same in that department.  

I know, I reckon it is an ego thing, they all like to look swanky, they all like to show what they can do with the ball, but they do not like doing any dirty work. It is so frustrating as these kids are huge, if they put a proper shift in they could be awesome, George North was doing all that early on, I just do not know what has happened with him.

[bedfordwelsh]

Lets look at worst case scenario with regards to Halfpenny, Li Williams and Warburton what would we be looking at over all:

Jenkins Baldwin Lee
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Tipuric

Davies Biggar
North (best of bad bunch) Roberts JD ??? (Cuthbert James Amos Hewitt Walker)
???(Hook Patchell Amos)

[bedfordwelsh]

England

Ed Slater looked he was putting a marker down to start. Out injured
Johnny May out
Corbisieru - Yes I know its hard to believe.....

Dave Ewers
Slade
There was some Samoan bloke who came over here as a kid who used to play a bit too.
Wade? (bit of a long shot)

Yeah thought he was out to, big loss for Jones I feel really like look of him.

[LordDowlais]

Lets look at worst case scenario with regards to Halfpenny, Li Williams and Warburton what would we be looking at over all:

Jenkins Baldwin Lee
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Tipuric

Davies Biggar
North (best of bad bunch) Roberts JD ??? (Cuthbert James Amos Hewitt Walker)
???(Hook Patchell Amos)

I would not pick Jenkins, I would pick the kid from Scarlets Rob Evans or Nicky Smith, Jenkins is getting on a bit now, also for fullback Gatland would more than likely go for someone like Matthew Morgan, and I know I will get lambasted for saying this, but I think, if all our fullbacks are injured then he needs to start looking at the likes of Dan Evans, he always puts in a good shift for Ospreys, he is hardly ever injured, and I think he deserves a chance. Otherwise it's the Scarlets youngster Steffan Evans or Dan Fish, or dare I say it Tom Prydie.

[bedfordwelsh]

LD,

Forgot about Morgan but still not sure he will get that much of a look while at Bristol and I have never rated Evans and he hasn't been in best form but maybe this will be his chance.

As for the props I still think Jenkins and James will see most of this 6 Nations but agree we have to start looking outside those two as neither will be around in 4 years. I think Evans is maybe a step further along the line than Smith but would be happy with either.

[LordDowlais]

Forgot about Morgan but still not sure he will get that much of a look while at Bristol and I have never rated Evans and he hasn't been in best form but maybe this will be his chance.

The thing is Beds, if Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny and Gareth Anscombe are all injured, that is out three first choice squad picks, then we have to look at what is left. None of what is left are as good as Williams or Halfpenny. But we need to look at what we have left.

Out of everyone that is left, Dan Evans is the only one who plays every week at fullback, in fact I bet he is the first name on the team sheet for Ospreys, and he has never let them down. Dan Fish is not a starter for Cardiff Blues and Scarlets always pick between Tom Williams and Steffan Evans. Who else is there ?

[wales606]

Back 3 will be interesting,

Everywhere else we have injuries there are established replacements to come in, but we have been weak in back 3 depth for years now and are having a lot of bad luck with injuries.

Against Ireland first up, I think Gatland will play safe and stick with the devil he knows. Anscombe at FB and North and Cuthbert on the wings.

If Anscombe doesn't recover then it really is a toss up between Morgan and Patchell, with Patchell probably getting the place as a good kicking option against the Irish.

[LordDowlais]

If Anscombe doesn't recover then it really is a toss up between Morgan and Patchell

FFS if he goes with those two I will implode, neither of them can tackle.

Also, neither of them call full back their position, Ireland would have a field day being first up.

[Geordie]

England

Ed Slater looked he was putting a marker down to start. Out injured
Johnny May out
Corbisieru - Yes I know its hard to believe.....

Dave Ewers
Slade
There was some Samoan bloke who came over here as a kid who used to play a bit too.
Wade? (bit of a long shot)

Ah yeah jeez I forgot about those boys....

[funnyExiledScot]

Scotland aren't in too bad a shape at the moment on the injury front (touch wood). I think our current list is something like this:

McInally (hooker)
Dickinson (loosehead) - should be back in time
Gilchrist (lock) - as suprising as Corbisiero
Harley (flankler/lock) - should be back in time
Horne (fly half/centre)
Dunbar (centre) - should be back in time
Visser (wing) 

Of that group only Dickinson and Dunbar are likely starters in the 1st XV, and both should return in time to play a part in at least some of the 6 Nations.

[whocares]

Huget, Grosso will definitely miss the 6N
Trinh Duc is injured but might be back by then (not sure in what shape though)

[Geordie]

So it actually reads..

England

Ed Slater - Lock
Johnny May  - Wing
Corbisieru - Prop
Manu T - Centre
Slade - Centre / FH
Ewers - Back Row
Wade - Wing
Brookes - Prop

And to be honest I think Slater, Brookes, Slade and Ewers stood a good chance of breaking in to the team.

[bedfordwelsh]

So it actually reads..

England

Ed Slater - Lock
Johnny May  - Wing
Corbisieru - Prop
Manu T - Centre
Slade - Centre / FH
Ewers - Back Row
Wade - Wing
Brookes - Prop

And to be honest I think Slater, Brookes, Slade and Ewers stood a good chance of breaking in to the team.

Brookes definitely, he's been smashing up opposition in the games I have seen.

[funnyExiledScot]

Some bad injuries in there for England. A lot of those players were on fine form before getting injured.

[bedfordwelsh]

If Anscombe doesn't recover then it really is a toss up between Morgan and Patchell

FFS if he goes with those two I will implode, neither of them can tackle.

Also, neither of them call full back their position, Ireland would have a field day being first up.

Let's be honest we are up the creak either way unless at least one of Halfpenny, Williams, Amos or Anscombe can get fit and some game time. I am not saying Evans doesn't at least deserve a chance but just don't rate him myself.

I think the back 3 could very well be a case of whose left best of a bad bunch etc. Its highly likely that both North and Cuthbert will still be involved despite being off form then you have to pick from the likes of James, Hewitt, Walker, Evans, Hook, Patchell and Morgan.

[mikey_dragon]

Cory Allen needs to learn how to tackle, he has great potential, he has pace to burn and he is very strong, he is just a big baby when it comes to defending, if he improves on his defence he could become a major player for Cardiff Blues and Wales.

Allen, North, Cuthbert and James all the same in that department.  

As much as you like to keep on pushing it, the reality is that North is not in the same department as those three.

I wouldn't select James, but if it comes down to either him or Cuthbert then select Tom James. The other back 3 players I would select is Amos (hopefully he makes a good return and stays fit), Walker (probably get injured), North, and Hewitt (bit risky so soon in his career, but he's playing well enough).

RE Hewitt vs James - Hewitt is clearly playing better and was doing so before the festive period. Everyone in Wales seems to be talking up average Tom James so you wonder if it's out of resentment for Gwent or do these media moguls just not watch enough rugby?

[LordDowlais]

Everyone in Wales seems to be talking up average Tom James so you wonder if it's out of resentment for Gwent or do these media moguls just not watch enough rugby?

I'm not. I would take Hewitt over any winger from Cardiff. Eli Walker if he can play for more than five minutes without getting injured would be my choice as well, but for the moment out of all the wingers we have fit I would use North and Hewitt. Eli Walker before Hewitt if he could stay fit.

[bedfordwelsh]

MD,

Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been so I am not pushing anything just stating a fact and his current attacking form isn't much (if any) better.

I agree on the James issue and media but then again we have seen it time and time again with our players being talked down for some other or all of a sudden becoming better players so as they have left us.

[Knowsit17]

From what I can tell only Halfpenny and Scott Williams are confirmed as sitting out the entire tournament for Wales.

Tight timescales for Warbs and Anscombe, though they'll hopefully be good to come into the fold by at least the 2nd or 3rd week. Jake Ball a little later possibly.

Webb has progressed ahead of schedule apparently and could be fit for the opener in Dublin.

Kingsley Jones said last month he was hopeful Amos and Morgan would make it in time. Still a bit early to say for certain. No clear timescale on Dixon.

Liam Williams is on course according to most sources.

Seeing as some are talking about it, I wouldn't take Tom James personally. I don't consider him up to the task of breaking through international defences or completing try-scoring opportunities at that level. His input when he was getting capped was insufficient. At this stage I'd consider the spot better spent on one of the emerging generation i.e. Amos, Walker or Hewitt.

[mikey_dragon]

MD,

Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been so I am not pushing anything just stating a fact and his current attacking form isn't much (if any) better.

I agree on the James issue and media but then again we have seen it time and time again with our players being talked down for some other or all of a sudden becoming better players so as they have left us.

"Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been" - It's never been that bad . Whilst both struggle with technique, only Cuthbert struggles in defence tactically, say from a positional perspective. He's usually in the wrong position and doesn't really slow down if he's chased the ball to an opposition catcher. North's technique is slightly better, and his positional play is much better. North actually defends better in the 13 channel, but that doesn't make him a Cuthbert-esque defender.

Yeah I hate that. I just hope the selectors (bar McBryde) have been watching Hewitt, the next Shane!

[mikey_dragon]

So it actually reads..

England

Ed Slater - Lock
Johnny May  - Wing
Corbisieru - Prop
Manu T - Centre
Slade - Centre / FH
Ewers - Back Row
Wade - Wing
Brookes - Prop

And to be honest I think Slater, Brookes, Slade and Ewers stood a good chance of breaking in to the team.

According to you lot England always have multiple injuries to first choice players and Wales always somehow end up playing their third choice team... Put out whoever you want at Twickenham, by that week Wales will be more than ready .

[the-goon]

For Ireland, I think these are the absentees:

Likely lads for the 23 v Wales that are out.

Henderson
Mike Ross (doubtful to be fit)
O'Mahoney
Payne
Bowe
Earls? (went off with a bad looking neck injury- not sure there)
Henshaw (although expected to return this month)

Fringe

Olding
Cave
Buckley

[mikey_dragon]

Ireland are without some good players there, but no doubt have some good guys ready to step in. You won't be playing a good Argentina team so you shouldn't worry too much...

[Geordie]

So it actually reads..

England

Ed Slater - Lock
Johnny May  - Wing
Corbisieru - Prop
Manu T - Centre
Slade - Centre / FH
Ewers - Back Row
Wade - Wing
Brookes - Prop

And to be honest I think Slater, Brookes, Slade and Ewers stood a good chance of breaking in to the team.

According to you lot England always have multiple injuries to first choice players and Wales always somehow end up playing their third choice team... Put out whoever you want at Twickenham, by that week Wales will be more than ready .

Oh I refuse to use injuries as an excuse and I'm not worried at all, we have more than enough to cover those injuries.

We too will be more than ready for you...

[bedfordwelsh]

MD,

Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been so I am not pushing anything just stating a fact and his current attacking form isn't much (if any) better.

I agree on the James issue and media but then again we have seen it time and time again with our players being talked down for some other or all of a sudden becoming better players so as they have left us.

"Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been" - It's never been that bad . Whilst both struggle with technique, only Cuthbert struggles in defence tactically, say from a positional perspective. He's usually in the wrong position and doesn't really slow down if he's chased the ball to an opposition catcher. North's technique is slightly better, and his positional play is much better. North actually defends better in the 13 channel, but that doesn't make him a Cuthbert-esque defender.

Yeah I hate that. I just hope the selectors (bar McBryde) have been watching Hewitt, the next Shane!

Norths defence is terrible and always has been go back to SA when Liam Williams got slated for losing us the game, Norths feeble half a***d attempt at a tackle was what you would expect at schoolboy level from someone learning the game not a bloke built the size of him.

For guys their size they should both be way above the standard defensively that they are.

[mikey_dragon]

So it actually reads..

England

Ed Slater - Lock
Johnny May  - Wing
Corbisieru - Prop
Manu T - Centre
Slade - Centre / FH
Ewers - Back Row
Wade - Wing
Brookes - Prop

And to be honest I think Slater, Brookes, Slade and Ewers stood a good chance of breaking in to the team.

According to you lot England always have multiple injuries to first choice players and Wales always somehow end up playing their third choice team... Put out whoever you want at Twickenham, by that week Wales will be more than ready .

Oh I refuse to use injuries as an excuse and I'm not worried at all, we have more than enough to cover those injuries.

We too will be more than ready for you...

Yeah sure you will .

[mikey_dragon]

MD,

Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been so I am not pushing anything just stating a fact and his current attacking form isn't much (if any) better.

I agree on the James issue and media but then again we have seen it time and time again with our players being talked down for some other or all of a sudden becoming better players so as they have left us.

"Norths defence is a bad as Cuthberts and always has been" - It's never been that bad . Whilst both struggle with technique, only Cuthbert struggles in defence tactically, say from a positional perspective. He's usually in the wrong position and doesn't really slow down if he's chased the ball to an opposition catcher. North's technique is slightly better, and his positional play is much better. North actually defends better in the 13 channel, but that doesn't make him a Cuthbert-esque defender.

Yeah I hate that. I just hope the selectors (bar McBryde) have been watching Hewitt, the next Shane!

Norths defence is terrible and always has been go back to SA when Liam Williams got slated for losing us the game, Norths feeble half a***d attempt at a tackle was what you would expect at schoolboy level from someone learning the game not a bloke built the size of him.

For guys their size they should both be way above the standard defensively that they are.

Yeah North was incredibly poor that game and at that point his form was consistently poor. That's your only example? For every North example there would probably 3 or more examples for Cuthbert.

You're correct on that point.

[bedfordwelsh]

That example lead to all the fuss and the try there have been plenty of examples where he has missed easy one up tackles as regularly as Cuthbert but both players have been lucky that their errors have been covered by team mates.

Both are currently off form and if options were available I wouldn't pick either of them nor James but like mentioned earlier we could end up with a best of bad bunch back 3 unless a few others get back from injury.

[LordDowlais]

That example lead to all the fuss and the try there have been plenty of examples where he has missed easy one up tackles as regularly as Cuthbert but both players have been lucky that their errors have been covered by team mates.

Both are currently off form and if options were available I wouldn't pick either of them nor James but like mentioned earlier we could end up with a best of bad bunch back 3 unless a few others get back from injury.

What about his feeble tackling against the Aussies in the last AI ? What about his poor attempt at a tackle against England in the 6N when JJ scored his try ? On numerous occasions George North has cost us games because of his feeble tackling, it's not just the once against South Africa, it is most of the time.

If anybody thinks otherwise, then they should watch him in defence, next time Wales are playing keep an eye on St George, he cannot catch a high ball, he cannot tackle, and he is always out of position in defence. The one thing I will agree with though, he is not as bad as Cuthbert at the moment.

[lostinwales]

That example lead to all the fuss and the try there have been plenty of examples where he has missed easy one up tackles as regularly as Cuthbert but both players have been lucky that their errors have been covered by team mates.

Both are currently off form and if options were available I wouldn't pick either of them nor James but like mentioned earlier we could end up with a best of bad bunch back 3 unless a few others get back from injury.

What about his feeble tackling against the Aussies in the last AI ? What about his poor attempt at a tackle against England in the 6N when JJ scored his try ? On numerous occasions George North has cost us games because of his feeble tackling, it's not just the once against South Africa, it is most of the time.

If anybody thinks otherwise, then they should watch him in defence, next time Wales are playing keep an eye on St George, he cannot catch a high ball, he cannot tackle, and he is always out of position in defence. The one thing I will agree with though, he is not as bad as Cuthbert at the moment.

To be fair JJ can be slippery as an eel but more importantly North should not have been on the pitch at the time given his recent 'interaction' with Parling. It's not a good example to choose.

[LordDowlais]

To be fair JJ can be slippery as an eel but more importantly North should not have been on the pitch at the time given his recent 'interaction' with Parling. It's not a good example to choose.

I am sure that happened after JJ scored his try. I could be mistaken though.

[No 7&1/2]

He got clobbered twice in that match.

[lostinwales]

He got clobbered twice in that match.

North treated for 1st injury at 29 mins (Boot of Parling). JJ scored try at 44mins

I believe the 2nd head injury (via the knee of Hibbard) came after

[propdavid_london]

Isnt LCD from Exeter injured? Havent seen him play for a while.

Marlan Yarde was injured but light...expected back next week

Foden was injured last week wasnt he?

And I havent seen Eastmond play the last few games for Bath

[lostinwales]

Isnt LCD from Exeter injured?  Havent seen him play for a while.

Marlan Yarde was injured but light...expected back next week

Foden was injured last week wasnt he?

And I havent seen Eastmond play the last few games for Bath

LCD bust a thumb. I think it was the start of November.

[mikey_dragon]

That example lead to all the fuss and the try there have been plenty of examples where he has missed easy one up tackles as regularly as Cuthbert but both players have been lucky that their errors have been covered by team mates.

Both are currently off form and if options were available I wouldn't pick either of them nor James but like mentioned earlier we could end up with a best of bad bunch back 3 unless a few others get back from injury.

What about his feeble tackling against the Aussies in the last AI ? What about his poor attempt at a tackle against England in the 6N when JJ scored his try ? On numerous occasions George North has cost us games because of his feeble tackling, it's not just the once against South Africa, it is most of the time.

If anybody thinks otherwise, then they should watch him in defence, next time Wales are playing keep an eye on St George, he cannot catch a high ball, he cannot tackle, and he is always out of position in defence. The one thing I will agree with though, he is not as bad as Cuthbert at the moment.

No he hasn't. As for your second paragraph it looks as if you've copied and pasted what I wrote about Cuthbert. Good one.

[LordDowlais]

No he hasn't. As for your second paragraph it looks as if you've copied and pasted what I wrote about Cuthbert. Good one.

mikey whilst I agree that North is nowhere near as poor as Cuthbert, his defence leaves a lot to be desired for a man of his size, I suggest you watch him closely during the next 6N he will cost us more than what he gives us. He has done nothing of note for Wales for a while now.

[bluestonevedder]

Dave Attwood out for 10-12 weeks to have surgery on his neck.

[mikey_dragon]

No he hasn't. As for your second paragraph it looks as if you've copied and pasted what I wrote about Cuthbert. Good one.

mikey whilst I agree that North is nowhere near as poor as Cuthbert, his defence leaves a lot to be desired for a man of his size, I suggest you watch him closely during the next 6N he will cost us more than what he gives us. He has done nothing of note for Wales for a while now.

But I'm still wondering where and when he has cost us a number of games with his feeble tackling? I've watched him closely throughout his career, but less often since his move to Northampton. The only time North has deserved criticism for his defence is when he was woefully off form, and it was more than just his defence that suffered. That's been and gone and he is returning to good form. I think he was good in the world cup, not as good as Roberts but much better than Cuthbert.

[LordDowlais]

mikey watch the last AI game against Australia when he played center, he allowed Tevita Kuridrani to run through him on numerous occasions, I have seen me screaming at him in the 6N as well for just brushing his hand down the top half of his opponents body rather than try and smash him like Roberts does.

[mikey_dragon]

Did North cost us that game? I can't remember him costing Wales a single game. If an individual is to cost us a game then it's more likely to be Priestland or Cuthbert...

[LordDowlais]

Did North cost us that game? I can't remember him costing Wales a single game. If an individual is to cost us a game then it's more likely to be Priestland or Cuthbert...

I would not argue with that, but George North is not the be all and end all that he has the potential to be. He costs Wales points in defence, I would rather see Ashton Hewitt on one wing and Eli Walker on the other, if anything just to give George North a kick up the @rse, and make him get his act together.

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