Qualification for Europe

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Qualification for Europe

Post by True Raven on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 9:15 am

First topic message reminder :

Looking at the pro12 table and seeing how close the teams are for European qualification, isn't it about time where we award the top 7 with qualification regardless of nationality? Right now its an exciting league where every game means something in terms of the playoffs or Europe yet one team will miss out as an Italian team will automatically get an undeserving spot!

They haven't earned the right to be in the the top European tournament nor have they shown they can compete so wouldn't the second tier be more their level.

I understand there's an argument where playing better teams improves players but no one can prove that based on the Italian teams.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 1:48 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Oh and you asked for a reason it won't work.
The teams not invited especially the ones from the PRL will do all they can to scupper it. And I know you will say they can't make a case from not being invited to a new tournament, but it's not about a case they can win it's about a case that will drag on and on and on.
Second reason how do they pick what sides enter? Would have to be on merit as the PRL love merit. So the last season's league standings? Look at bath this year think they will except not being at the top table?

All PRL teams would be invited.

I'd love to see an Irish based company taking a UK based company to court because the UK based company had an invitational tournament that the Irish based company didn't receive an invite for, or couldn't make the qualification criteria.

You, quite obviously, are floundering.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 1:49 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 1:49 pm

Sin é wrote:PhilBB - have you got the annual report of the EPRC for last year? If not, when do you think it will be available?

No
Pass.

You?

Could you point me towards the last three years of ERC's accounts, please, so that we can compare? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 9:13 am

The Irish provinces aim is, and has been stated publically, to match the English salary cap for the 3 senior provinces.
That is a perfectly sensible target - now with some English teams breaking that cap they are not quite achieving that
Long ago given up any hope of matching the French

The falsehood posted here is Connacht have brought success - there are a number of factors in their turn around.
The question remains why, when they are spending no more, and almost certainly less than Cardiff, why are Cardiff floundering year on year.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 11:06 am

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.
Shocked Where did you get that from from what I said?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 11:08 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.
Shocked  Where did you get that from from what I said?

oh yeah

That's where!

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:08 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:The Irish provinces aim is, and has been stated publically, to match the English salary cap for the 3 senior provinces.
That is a perfectly sensible target - now with some English teams breaking that cap they are not quite achieving that
Long ago given up any hope of matching the French

The falsehood posted here is Connacht have brought success - there are a number of factors in their turn around.
The question remains why, when they are spending no more, and almost certainly less than Cardiff, why are Cardiff floundering year on year.

Keep living in denial, mate, if you think that the Irish provinces haven't spent over the English cap (even the one that's going up).

I think that we've done the Cardiff floundering thing before, but it's a lovely diversion attempt.

Connacht gained success once the IRFU spent more on them. That's an undeniable fact.

Why are so many Irish rugby followers ashamed of spending money?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:09 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.
Shocked  Where did you get that from from what I said?

From the first clause of your first sentence.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:14 pm

We are not ashamed to spend money but the claim we spend more than the English - one of your compatriots even claimed Ulster spending matched Toulon !!! is a Welsh fantasy to explain/justify why Irish teams are succeeding whereas the Welsh teams are failing

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:24 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:We are not ashamed to spend money but the claim we spend more than the English - one of your compatriots even claimed Ulster spending matched Toulon !!! is a Welsh fantasy to explain/justify why Irish teams are succeeding whereas the Welsh teams are failing

The top line of the IRFU Annual Report isn't a fantasy, geoff.

I'm not associated by my 'compatriots', but it is funny to see your diversion tactics becoming more desperate.

The PRL salary cap is £5.5m plus credits and an out of cap player. The idea that Leinster, at least, don't spend that much is surely not worth considering as it is obvious that they do.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.
Shocked  Where did you get that from from what I said?

oh yeah

That's where!

Oh, Martyn, there's no need to continually underline your poor comprehension skills. You've done it enough in this thread already.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:27 pm

Phil you spoken to your "source" this week?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 2:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made. The IRFU are just trying to avoid another crisis in certain positions like what happened in the TH position a couple years ago but they have taken it too far imo.

Yes, at last. Where have you been for so long?

An Irish rugby follower noting the IRFU will spend its way to success.
Shocked  Where did you get that from from what I said?

oh yeah

That's where!

Oh, Martyn, there's no need to continually underline your poor comprehension skills. You've done it enough in this thread already.

Considering you seem to continually have users on here questioning your interpretation of what they have said I think I'll not worry about your opinion of my comprehension skills

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 3:36 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Phil you spoken to your "source" this week?

Yesterday

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 3:38 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Considering you seem to continually have users on here questioning your interpretation of what they have said I think I'll not worry about your opinion of my comprehension skills

I do? Where?

I've got one, that I can see, who wrote "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made." and then was silly enough to question where it was noted that the IRFU spent their way to success.

Meanwhile, you think that Ulster Rugby ltd runs the Ulster branch and, amongst equally bizarre posts, think that 7 plus 17 is 23.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 3:39 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil you spoken to your "source" this week?

Yesterday

Good news? Want to share?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 3:47 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Considering you seem to continually have users on here questioning your interpretation of what they have said I think I'll not worry about your opinion of my comprehension skills

I do? Where?

I've got one, that I can see, who wrote "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made." and then was silly enough to question where it was noted that the IRFU spent their way to success.

Meanwhile, you think that Ulster Rugby ltd runs the Ulster branch and, amongst equally bizarre posts, think that 7 plus 17 is 23.

I never said Ulster Rugby Ltd run the Ulster branch, again your taking what people have said and twisting it to suit your condescending and arrogant approach

I said that it was registered here the UK as a company in response to you saying the UK govt had given out taxpayers money to a Dublin company. How you got to me saying they run the branch when I think in same post, as well as others, I said they were a subsidiary

Erm picard

And yes he didn't say they were buying success he said they had some of the best paid players, since Ulster haven't won a trophy in 10 years, Munster in 5 and Connacht ever if he had he would be wrong but he didn't. You bridged the gap between what he said and you thought to attempt to validate your opinion and boost your ego as you seem to have a desire to be better and smarter than everyone.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 4:33 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil you spoken to your "source" this week?

Yesterday

Good news? Want to share?

Nothing of any note.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 4:37 pm

marty2086 wrote:
I never said Ulster Rugby Ltd run the Ulster branch, again your taking what people have said and twisting it to suit your condescending and arrogant approach

I said that it was registered here the UK as a company in response to you saying the UK govt had given out taxpayers money to a Dublin company. How you got to me saying they run the branch when I think in same post, as well as others, I said they were a subsidiary

Erm picard

And yes he didn't say they were buying success he said they had some of the best paid players, since Ulster haven't won a trophy in 10 years, Munster in 5 and Connacht ever if he had he would be wrong but he didn't. You bridged the gap between what he said and you thought to attempt to validate your opinion and boost your ego as you seem to have a desire to be better and smarter than everyone.

Its quite simple: you named that company as you clearly thought that company was the beneficiary of the UK taxes. For it to be the beneficiary, it would have to run Ulster Rugby.

Of course, none of the UK tax payers money went through Ulster Rugby ltd.

I don't have a desire to be smarter than everyone, Marty. I just take exception to jumped up puppies who snip away from a position of complete ignorance - you know, your modus operandi on here. Said puppies then sulk when they are proven to be as ignorant as it was claimed - you know, what you're doing now.

Clearly, the point about Irish rugby was its spending power: "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made.". It spends to win.

I can see why you're more and more embarrassed as the spending becomes more and more plain, simply because you swallowed the narrative that the Irish success wasn't bought. You'd be better off manning up to your error, accepting fact and doing away with the stupid puppy act.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 4:38 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Phil you spoken to your "source" this week?

Yesterday

Good news? Want to share?

Nothing of any note.

Ok. Champ. Chin up OK

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 4:39 pm

Odd

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 4:57 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
I never said Ulster Rugby Ltd run the Ulster branch, again your taking what people have said and twisting it to suit your condescending and arrogant approach

I said that it was registered here the UK as a company in response to you saying the UK govt had given out taxpayers money to a Dublin company. How you got to me saying they run the branch when I think in same post, as well as others, I said they were a subsidiary

Erm picard

And yes he didn't say they were buying success he said they had some of the best paid players, since Ulster haven't won a trophy in 10 years, Munster in 5 and Connacht ever if he had he would be wrong but he didn't. You bridged the gap between what he said and you thought to attempt to validate your opinion and boost your ego as you seem to have a desire to be better and smarter than everyone.

Its quite simple: you named that company as you clearly thought that company was the beneficiary of the UK taxes. For it to be the beneficiary, it would have to run Ulster Rugby.

Of course, none of the UK tax payers money went through Ulster Rugby ltd.

I don't have a desire to be smarter than everyone, Marty. I just take exception to jumped up puppies who snip away from a position of complete ignorance - you know, your modus operandi on here. Said puppies then sulk when they are proven to be as ignorant as it was claimed - you know, what you're doing now.

Clearly, the point about Irish rugby was its spending power: "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made.". It spends to win.

I can see why you're more and more embarrassed as the spending becomes more and more plain, simply because you swallowed the narrative that the Irish success wasn't bought. You'd be better off manning up to your error, accepting fact and doing away with the stupid puppy act.

Again your putting words in peoples mouth to prove yourself right, please don't try telling me what I did. I told you what I did and it wasn't what you say so if you're not so intent on being right why do you keep telling people what they are saying? And given that you said Ulster weren't a UK company it was both relevant and correct so I can't see how Im showing ignorance on the subject when I'm right?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 5:02 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Clearly, the point about Irish rugby was its spending power: "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made.". It spends to win.

If you are going to use the word clearly you might want to make sure the person your saying said something hasn't questioned your interpretation, especially after trying to mock other people

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 5:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Again your putting words in peoples mouth to prove yourself right, please don't try telling me what I did. I told you what I did and it wasn't what you say so if you're not so intent on being right why do you keep telling people what they are saying? And given that you said Ulster weren't a UK company it was both relevant and correct so I can't see how Im showing ignorance on the subject when I'm right?

Ulster aren't a UK company as the one you mentioned isn't trading as part of the rugby set up. You can check its abbreviated accounts out on line, if you like.

What you've 'told me' is your attempt at a face saving wriggle. Anybody who reads this thread from start to finish will find that obvious.

It seems that you wish to continue being snide and snappy, which is a shame as it will only lead to further moans about arrogance when, yet again, you get shown to be clueless.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 5:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Clearly, the point about Irish rugby was its spending power: "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made.". It spends to win.

If you are going to use the word clearly you might want to make sure the person your saying said something hasn't questioned your interpretation, especially after trying to mock other people

That would involve believing that, as you do, the person who wrote the post isn't backtracking at a pace when he/she realises its implications.

Maybe I'm at fault for thinking the author of the "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made." acts like you do, as those words are quite clear in definition.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 5:51 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Considering you seem to continually have users on here questioning your interpretation of what they have said I think I'll not worry about your opinion of my comprehension skills

I do? Where?

I've got one, that I can see, who wrote "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made." and then was silly enough to question where it was noted that the IRFU spent their way to success.

Meanwhile, you think that Ulster Rugby ltd runs the Ulster branch and, amongst equally bizarre posts, think that 7 plus 17 is 23.
How does this mean the IRFU are spending their way to success? The IRFU are doing the exact opposite now. We haven't won a European cup since Leinster in 2012; who only had 2 NIQ players starting one of whom was Isa Nacewa, who I'm sure most people this side of the world never even heard of before moving up here. The other was Brad thorn who was here for 3 months...Perhaps instead of giving cryptic responses you could explain what you mean by buying success. That could help us understand your viewpoint.


Last edited by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 5:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Clearly, the point about Irish rugby was its spending power: "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made.". It spends to win.

If you are going to use the word clearly you might want to make sure the person your saying said something hasn't questioned your interpretation, especially after trying to mock other people

That would involve believing that, as you do, the person who wrote the post isn't backtracking at a pace when he/she realises its implications.

Maybe I'm at fault for thinking the author of the "We can compete with most teams in Europe (which was confirmed by Munster's CEO) we have some of the highest paid players in Europe. Also look at the signings Ulster have just made." acts like you do, as those words are quite clear in definition.

Yes its everyone else and not you Rolling Eyes

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 1:22 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
How does this mean the IRFU are spending their way to success? The IRFU are doing the exact opposite now. We haven't won a European cup since Leinster in 2012; who only had 2 NIQ players starting one of whom was Isa Nacewa, who I'm sure most people this side of the world never even heard of before moving up here. The other was Brad thorn who was here for 3 months...Perhaps instead of giving cryptic responses you could explain what you mean by buying success. That could help us understand your viewpoint.

Mate, my opinion is explicitly stated in this thread with the reference points.

Look at your Union's Annual Report.

And you know those Irishmen who played in 2012? They didn't turn up for free.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by PhilBB on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 1:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Yes its everyone else and not you Rolling Eyes

You've sunk to the 'everyone else' line? Come on, son, up your game.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by marty2086 on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 1:31 pm

Sunk? You claim to know what everyone else is saying/thinking then when they say its not that your claiming they are backtracking. It seems a pretty accurate description

So who is it needs to up their game?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 1:53 pm

Phill any news?

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Re: Qualification for Europe

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 3:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
How does this mean the IRFU are spending their way to success? The IRFU are doing the exact opposite now. We haven't won a European cup since Leinster in 2012; who only had 2 NIQ players starting one of whom was Isa Nacewa, who I'm sure most people this side of the world never even heard of before moving up here. The other was Brad thorn who was here for 3 months...Perhaps instead of giving cryptic responses you could explain what you mean by buying success. That could help us understand your viewpoint.

Mate, my opinion is explicitly stated in this thread with the reference points.

Look at your Union's Annual Report.

And you know those Irishmen who played in 2012? They didn't turn up for free.
I've read the thread and still don't have a clue what point you are trying to make... Would you rather the likes of Nucifora, Phillip Browne, Fitzgerald etc just held onto the millions the IRFU make or is it not good that filters down to the players? The IRFU are living well within their means and that is actually holding the provinces back. They are doing the opposite of buying success, they are actually being very stingy as they could be spending more on bringing in overseas players.

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Re: Qualification for Europe

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