6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

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ENGLAND v WALES
12 March 2016
KO: 16:00 GMT
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

119 Played 119
53 Won 54
12 Drawn 12
54 Lost 53
1,428 Points 1,371

B. Recent Form

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England
2015 Six Nations

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England
2014 Six Nations

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales
2013 Six Nations

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

C. Teams

ENGLAND

[tbc]

WALES

[tbc]

maestegmafia wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

I would be surprised if anyone's tactic was to injure the opposition.

Thinking that is the only way you will win is admitting defeat before you even kick off

Completely agree maes - can't see anyone actively trying to injure the opposition. Let them know they're there, of course, but injure certainly not.

I like the use of the pictures in the OP, I see myself as a bit of a Richard Burton type. OK I'm shorter, fatter and balder, but a Richard Burton type none the less.

After the media said Ireland targeted Dan Biggar at the kick off by kicking the ball to him I just don't know what to believe anymore!

Feel free to report that too, boo hoo.

I miss Hersh. Wonder where he went.

RiscaGame wrote:I miss Hersh. Wonder where he went.

He started to become quite famous, I remember seeing a sign on tele that somebody was holding up at a Leicester game saying "I HATE HERSH" and he was getting mentioned on the Scrum V forums and other rugby shows, I am sure Brian Moore mentioned him in his commentary as well such was his influence on the old BBC 606 forum boards.

stub wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

I would be surprised if anyone's tactic was to injure the opposition.

Thinking that is the only way you will win is admitting defeat before you even kick off

Completely agree maes - can't see anyone actively trying to injure the opposition. Let them know they're there, of course, but injure certainly not.

I'm sure it's just people being silly, not really thinking before they write.

The game is getting a great build up. Focus sing on Faletau Vs his cousin Billy. There are some great one on one battles on the pitch.

Scrumhalf, goal kickers, fullback, outside centre and young Rob Evans Vs the mighty Dan Cole all look very enticing.

maestegmafia wrote:

stub wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

I would be surprised if anyone's tactic was to injure the opposition.

Thinking that is the only way you will win is admitting defeat before you even kick off

Completely agree maes - can't see anyone actively trying to injure the opposition. Let them know they're there, of course, but injure certainly not.

I'm sure it's just people being silly, not really thinking before they write.

The game is getting a great build up. Focus sing on Faletau Vs his cousin Billy. There are some great one on one battles on the pitch.

Scrumhalf, goal kickers, fullback, outside centre and young Rob Evans Vs the mighty Dan Cole all look very enticing.

Yep it's going to be an absolute belter I reckon with not much in it come the end. From an English point of view I am genuinely worried about discipline though - hope Eddie can instil some mental toughness and self control. We will see...

I don't think either side will change their tactics or approach from the previous 3 games. Very intriguing Sat team time affair...

I think you're right. Both teams have a game plan they will wish to impose both are confident teams

Breadvan wrote:I don't think either side will change their tactics or approach from the previous 3 games. Very intriguing Sat team time affair...

I think Jones will.

Will Wales play a more attractive attacking game?

I don't think anyone thinks they will. JD2 said yesterday that he would be happy if we win the last two games three points to nil just to win another championship.

But what if Wales do open up and play a wider game, even if we lost would the fans be happy if we lost playing more exciting creative rugby?

If there is a transitional period as Wales want to expand their game, then we have to be ready for a few set backs to grow as a team. Losing a few now while developing our attacking play could make the improvements to this team that would mean we regularly compete and win within the top three of world rugby.

I think we all want to see Wales develop further and acheive more, but what is the price?

There are so many must win games that the pressure is high to record results over expansion and progression.

If Wales lost but scored five tries to two, I think I might be pleased in a way. Certainly if that lead to improvement in the sides capability.

We've proven we can win at six nations level, since gats took over rob howley said his win % is 73%. However we struggle against the better teams because in attack our guys are clueless, this was the perfect opportunity to develop an stacking strategy but we've wasted it and the coaching staff seem to be over the moon. We've got a tour to new Zealand at the end of the season and then play Australia and s Africa (I think) in the autumn, these arnt the games I want wales to try and develop an expansive game, the six nations is

maestegmafia wrote:Will Wales play a more attractive attacking game?

I don't think anyone thinks they will. JD2 said yesterday that he would be happy if we win the last two games three points to nil just to win another championship.

But what if Wales do open up and play a wider game, even if we lost would the fans be happy if we lost playing more exciting creative rugby?

If there is a transitional period as Wales want to expand their game, then we have to be ready for a few set backs to grow as a team. Losing a few now while developing our attacking play could make the improvements to this team that would mean we regularly compete and win within the top three of world rugby.

I think we all want to see Wales develop further and acheive more, but what is the price?

There are so many must win games that the pressure is high to record results over expansion and progression.

If Wales lost but scored five tries to two, I think I might be pleased in a way. Certainly if that lead to improvement in the sides capability.

Maes.

You ask will Wales play a different kind of game. Will Wales open up and play more attacking rugby than they have played all ready in the tournament.

My point is do Wales play the way have Roberts bursting up the middle ( crash ball) because it is the way Gatland and the coaches wan't them to play that way. or is their another reason.

Wales do have the talent and the players to play wide expanding rugby, but they very really do so.

So is Gatland stopping Wales from showing the world what they can d?.

Or is it that Wales do not know how to play truly a wide free flowing game, with plenty of attacking play?

If England give away as many penalties again and yellow cards, then Wales will win.

I hope England point out the fact pre game that welsh players keep tackling without their arms

majesticimperialman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Will Wales play a more attractive attacking game?

I don't think anyone thinks they will. JD2 said yesterday that he would be happy if we win the last two games three points to nil just to win another championship.

But what if Wales do open up and play a wider game, even if we lost would the fans be happy if we lost playing more exciting creative rugby?

If there is a transitional period as Wales want to expand their game, then we have to be ready for a few set backs to grow as a team. Losing a few now while developing our attacking play could make the improvements to this team that would mean we regularly compete and win within the top three of world rugby.

I think we all want to see Wales develop further and acheive more, but what is the price?

There are so many must win games that the pressure is high to record results over expansion and progression.

If Wales lost but scored five tries to two, I think I might be pleased in a way. Certainly if that lead to improvement in the sides capability.

Maes.

You ask will Wales play a different kind of game. Will Wales open up and play more attacking rugby than they have played all ready in the tournament.

My point is do Wales play the way have Roberts bursting up the middle ( crash ball) because it is the way Gatland and the coaches wan't them to play that way. or is their another reason.

Wales do have the talent and the players to play wide expanding rugby, but they very really do so.

So is Gatland stopping Wales from showing the world what they can d?.

Or is it that Wales do not know how to play truly a wide free flowing game, with plenty of attacking play?

Interesting to see that James was dropped after apparently trying something different. I know the story is a bit more complicated than that and no I didn't see the game, but a superficial reading is that he made a break from the wrong part of the pitch, made a lot of ground but didn't finish the chance off, then got replaced by Cuthbert in the next game

I hope the more senior England players have a quiet word with Mike Brown about his lack of upstairs control. He could otherwise spoil a really good contest.

offload wrote:I hope the more senior England players have a quiet word with Mike Brown about his lack of upstairs control. He could otherwise spoil a really good contest.

I know there is a great deal of negativity about Brown at the moment but its mostly undeserved. If someone gets a yellow card or gives away a penalty in the wrong place it won't be him. More likely Haskell (did they say most YC in 6n history now?) possibly Farrell or Cole, but not Brown.

offload is just responding to a wum.

No 7&1/2 wrote:offload is just responding to a wum.

You mean the must not mention what happened to Harry Ellis thing?

No 7&1/2 wrote:offload is just responding to a wum.

Sorry 7, I'm usually better than this.

I can't talk on responding to wums!

Wales team announcement is at 11:00 am

We're at home, we always back ourselves at home.

Wales Team: Liam Williams; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe.

BamBam wrote:Wales Team: Liam Williams; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe.

Same old .... then!

TightHEAD wrote:

BamBam wrote:Wales Team: Liam Williams; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe.

Same old .... then!

Did you really expect much at this stage in the Championship and who would you have changed?

Why was tom James dropped? He looked good and is n good form. I can't see what cuthbert adds to be honest (apart from hight)

Also surprised to see Charteris benched, I thought he'd been playing well

Webb/Tipuric/Charteris coming off the bench is going to be a challenge late on

TightHEAD wrote:We're at home, we always back ourselves at home.

carpet baboon wrote:Why was tom James dropped? He looked good and is n good form. I can't see what cuthbert adds to be honest (apart from hight)

Because he ran into space and didn't take contact.

TightHEAD wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Why was tom James dropped? He looked good and is n good form. I can't see what cuthbert adds to be honest (apart from hight)

Because he ran into space and didn't take contact.

Did gatland give any reasons?

Because he's not that good and couldn't finish off a run that someone like North Walker Amos and even Cuthbert would have finished.

Cuthbert had his best game for a long time against France and would pick him over James, then again I would currently pick Amos over both.

Charteris is on the bench after injury, Davies had a great game against France so guess he's showing a bit of loyalty there.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Because he's not that good and couldn't finish off a run that someone like North Walker Amos and even Cuthbert would have finished.

All conjecture!

carpet baboon wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Why was tom James dropped? He looked good and is n good form. I can't see what cuthbert adds to be honest (apart from hight)

Because he ran into space and didn't take contact.

Did gatland give any reasons?

Does Gatland need too give a reason for Dropping some one from the team/squad?

He is head coach Surely he does not have to give a reason. Does he.

Who moves to 8 if Faletau goes down injured?

Wales good starting 15, however if England are ahead I don't see anyone on the Wales bench that is going to strike any fear into the England team. Particulary their back options. I find it strange to see Priestland AND Anscombe on the bench.

TightHEAD wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Because he's not that good and couldn't finish off a run that someone like North Walker Amos and even Cuthbert would have finished.

All conjecture!

As is your assumption that James was dropped because he ran into space instead of contact.

beshocked wrote:Who moves to 8 if Faletau goes down injured?

That's the big poser at the moment and why I was hoping Moriarty would have been involved more.

If it does happen then I guess it would be Warburton with Tipuric coming on or possibly AWJ with Charteris going into 2nd row.

wrfc1980 wrote:Wales good starting 15, however if England are ahead I don't see anyone on the Wales bench that is going to strike any fear into the England team. Particulary their back options. I find it strange to see Priestland AND Anscombe on the bench.

Webb ? Charteris will be huge in the maul/Lineout, Tipuric in what could be fairly open play ?

A lot of the England debate seems to centre (literally) around Manu, but I am more interested in the scrum balance.

There is probably no debating the front row, although I thought Hartley noticeably tired as the game against Ireland wore on, so I think Jones needs to watch this, especially with Jamie George on the bench in great form.

However, for me the back 5 is more interesting. Vunipola and Kruis pick themselves now, and I'd be tempted to bring in Launchbury for Robshaw and shift Itoje to 6, with Robshaw and Clifford on the bench.

I'm nervous that if England give away the same number of penalties as they have in this tournament, they'll struggle. In the World Cup game, England were well on top for long periods of the game, but couldn't stay more than 7 points ahead because they kept letting Wales in with silly penalties. Then, one mistake (in this instance by the coach with a substitution) led to another (poor defensive alignment), and all of a sudden the scores were level and Wales had all the belief having held out for so long.

But if England can cut out the penalties without letting Wales have free reign at the breakdown, then I think England will win. I think England have the pack to match Wales and therefore it could come down to England's more creative backs.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Because he's not that good and couldn't finish off a run that someone like North Walker Amos and even Cuthbert would have finished.

All conjecture!

As is your assumption that James was dropped because he ran into space instead of contact.

But in Scrabble conjecture (21 points) beats assumption (14 Points)

lol

TightHEAD wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Because he's not that good and couldn't finish off a run that someone like North Walker Amos and even Cuthbert would have finished.

All conjecture!

As is your assumption that James was dropped because he ran into space instead of contact.

But in Scrabble conjecture (21 points) beats assumption (14 Points)

I did some study on this, as I thought it was odd, Cuthbert offered nothing at club level while James was on fire...

I am convinced James has been dropped for the kick chase, Gatland likes to play a varied but extensive kick chase game, during the Ireland game that looked really poor, however the poor kicks, were all of James either not chasing at all, or chasing something totally different.

James also lost a lot of yardage positioning, he was lazy when dropping to cover FB, and rashly rushes to the line leaving Williams exposed. Cuthbert, for all his defficiancies takes orders and plays a more structured way.

People slate James for being caught by Taylor, which is a bit unfair, it was a clean break, he was caught by a quick player, had no support and he tried to keep the ball alive. however look at his play just before and after that incident, he's clearly lacking the will to work hard off the ball.

Fanster,

Pretty much covers it in a nutshell though I still think he should have scored that try (conjecture or assumption aside) i feel the other welsh wingers we have would of.

James has always been regarded as a lazy player and whilst Cuthbert isn't exactly the busiest he does go looking for work as is willing to take the ball on.

If it was my decision I would have them in the order of Amos Cuthbert James.

Lots of criticisms aimed at Cuthbert and Tipuric on here and a lot of plaudits and anticipation towards the prospect of Tuilagi coming into the game. The last time we had a GS decider v England, Tipuric was on fire, Cuthbert scored 2 trys and Tuilagi illustrated the peripheral vision and awareness of Stevie Wonder and the game management of Steve McLaren. I think they call it selective memory and attention in the trade.

Has Tipuric come in for much criticism? Bit surprised at that, he's not been at his best but then again we generally don't play a style that suites him.

At the moment he is still best suited to coming off then bench in the last 20-25 minutes.

maestegmafia wrote:Will Wales play a more attractive attacking game?

I don't think anyone thinks they will.

Even though they were criticised for the performance against France, there were (small) signs of a change in philosophy, especially early on: Rob Evans was looking to offload in the tackle, as was Bradley Davies (there may have been others). A couple of times it ended in a knock on, and it never really worked, but at least they were looking to keep the ball alive, instead of dying with the ball as they usually do. The players need to develop an awareness of when it's on and when it isn't, but hopefully, and at long last, we are beginning to see signs of something beyond the usual grinding, phase-obsessed game.

Sadly, I didn't see signs of anything new from the backs.

yappysnap wrote:I wouldn't bank on that Bedford, Toner was supposed to do the same and ended up being ineffective, we even turned a few of their lineouts over.

In a turgid draw that saw the line-outs about even for and against?

If England keep their discipline, they'll win comfortably. I'm hoping they do keep their discipline, however that will rob of us of seeing Biggar do The Macarena before each kick. That has the whole pub in stitches of laughter when he does that.

I think even Rob Jones will be surprised by his performance that day, however I thought Rob Evans had a really good game