Summer Tours - Wal V Nz / Eng V Aus / Ire V Sa / Fra V Arg / Sco V Jap / Ita V Can, USA

All fun and games coming up.  I'm a bit worried for Wales as their tour to New Zealand actually takes place at the same time as the France Top 14 finishes.  They have a quarter finals meaning the top 8 teams participate.   The Quarter finals are played on the 11th of June, the Semis on the 18th of June, and the final on the 24th of June.  I'm not sure if the French season runs into the international window or the International season starts early.  

The English Aviva Premiership final will be on the 28th of May, one day before the Wales and England game.


Summer tours:

Wales:
29 May / Sunday / England V Wales - Twickenham
11 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Auckland
14 June / Tuesday / Waikato V Wales - Wellington Hamilton
18 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Welington
25 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Dunedin

England:
29 May / Sunday / England V Wales - Twickenham
11 June / Saturday / Australia V England - Brisbane
18 June / Saturday / Australia V England - Melbourne
25 June / Saturday / Australia V England - Sydney

Ireland:
11 June / Saturday / South Africa V Ireland - Cape Town
18 June / Saturday / South Africa V Ireland - Johannesburg
25 June / Saturday / South Africa V Ireland - Port Elizabeth

France:
18 June / Saturday /  Argentina V France
25 June / Saturday / Argentina V France

Italy:
18 June / Saturday / USA V Italy - California
26 June / Sunday / Canada V Italy - Ontario

Scotland:
18 June / Saturday / Japan V Scotland
25 June / Saturday / Japan V Scotland

As usual Wales, Ireland, and England opt to take on tough tours, with three international matches.  Scotland and Italy sticking to their usual Tier B tour, with France also opting for a two match tour of Argentina.

There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

International window starts 2nd weekend of June [with preceding time for training] and this is clear this year thankfully. It'll be interesting to see what happens if any internationals are playing in the French finals.

The Pro12 final is also on the 28th May. Whether that affects Wales remains to be seen.

Yes HoT this game replaces the match against Barbaria.

Intrigued to see what kindof squad France are able to take to Argentina with the two tests on the same weekends as the T14 semi and final.

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Those England dates are before Nathan Hughes is available. Wonder if that will affect his chances for the AI's if Kvesic, Ewers etc put in a good show.

I think Australia are going to be very strong. I actually think it'll be a 3-0 whitewash.

The Australians don't like mauls and are usually illegal in how they construct their own. Borthwick is probably looking at videos of the Oz lineout as we speak, as it can be targeted. The English scrum should go significantly better too from the shambles of the RWC performance against Australia.

I hope England will just be a lot less nervous this time and Jones will certainly have his selected 23 well prepared.

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points? Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in. Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

These tours are scheduled during the international calendar so how are teams allowed to hold players back from international duty ?

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

These tours are scheduled during the international calendar so how are teams allowed to hold players back from international duty ?

They are not. Players must be released during international window. The Wales v England game is not in the window but the other games are.

Exiledinborders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

These tours are scheduled during the international calendar so how are teams allowed to hold players back from international duty ?

They are not. Players must be released during international window. The Wales v England game is not in the window but the other games are.

So Charteris will be available to tour New Zealand then. Which is what I thought, the Wales V England game is just another shameful money making exorcise. Apparently the WRU will get £2 million samolians for that fixture.

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

I'm sure Whitelock and Retallick will be relieved!

Wales tour looks interesting.

5 games!! Is that not a lot?
Is the game v Waikato a vanity exercise for Gatland? Given he is from Hamilton and coached the chiefs in the past?

Don't see why Wales cant pick up a win down there.

SA v Ireland will be epic. The saffers will be keen to make amends for their poor recent record v Ireland.

CJ Stander to score the series winner in the last minute of test 3 from an audacious Strauss offload.

Wales certainly have a chance of upsetting one game anyway and taking it in New Zealand.  Unfortunately, going on how both teams usually go at things.... it probably needs to be the first one but that's when Wales usually are just finding their pace.  So the second game is next best bet and yeah, maybe New Zealand do relax a bit in the mid game.... but then it should be tough in the third to live with them.

But I do give Wales hope.  They're good enough to put in a performance and keep in a game or two to the end and stranger things have happened if they hang in there to that end.

I'd give England a good shot too.  I don't think they'll be stung so badly again with Jones keeping shop.  Then again, you know how much Australia will be planning for this one with Cheika more than ready to join horns to send the boys in white packing.... extra juice for him being Jones in charge actually.  So I give England a shot but they'll need to be in real bully form big time and the new slick young things like Itoje will become either heros or realise just how unforgiving this Senior game really is.

Ireland I wouldn't pin too much hope in.  Every game will be punishing.  They'll work exceptionally hard, they'll puff hard, they'll be hit hard.  But maybe one of the games will give something enough to cling on for a win.  But only maybe.  I think Ireland are a year or two from being back to something more robust and threatening.  I'll look forward to being wrong though

I think Scotland will do well in Japan.  Japan surprised people in the World Cup...but even by the end of that very World Cup, the surprise factor was losing potency and the Scots for one showed it up.

Still think the game vs Wales is pointless both for England and Wales, just an opportunity for both teams to lose players to injury before their respective tours to Australia and NZ begin.

Will be interesting to see how England plan to counter Pocock and Hooper.

It's an obvious point but Cheika was in Paris, likely to get a little insight into England first hand.

Jones vs Cheika is also another interesting sub plot.

beshocked wrote:Still think the game vs Wales is pointless both for England and Wales, just an opportunity for both teams to lose players to injury to make a few million ££££'s before their respective tours to Australia and NZ begin.

There fixed that for you, Wales will be creaming £2 million for eighty minutes work, not too shabby, it is shameless what our unions are doing.

Aside from the Scotland games, my eyes will be on Eddie Jones' England against Australia. That'll be really interesting, and keenly contested I think.

South Africa will have too much for Ireland albeit I think it will be close, and New Zealand will dismantle Wales.

For the record, I'll be supporting all the home nations teams in the SH.

The Welsh English game IS silly. I agree there, shocked!

The time for NH sides to join horns is the 6N. It's almost sacrilege at this point for those encounters to happen outside that Competition as it skews people's impressions and actually its the psychological aspect to it that no side needs really. There is more than enough crowing and sledging between close Nations during the 6N to last a year. We don't need more of it. We always need a calming down period to prepare again for the next time.

Lorddowlais I agree. Making money is the main goal of the unions sadly.

FES I think this tour to Australia is a bit too soon for Eddie Jones' England to make a real dent but I hope to be proved wrong. A lot will depend on whose fit I expect obviously.

I agree it's an uphill battle for Ireland and Wales but both sides could surprise as expectations will be low.

SecretFly wrote:The Welsh English game IS silly.  I agree there, shocked!

The time for NH sides to join horns is the 6N.  It's almost sacrilege at this point for those encounters to happen outside that Competition as it skews people's impressions and actually its the psychological aspect to it that no side needs really.  There is more than enough crowing and sledging between close Nations during the 6N to last a year.  We don't need more of it.  We always need a calming down period to prepare again for the next time.

Agree 100%. The 6 Nations teams have no place playing eachother outside of the 6 Nations and the World Cup.

beshocked wrote:Lorddowlais I agree. Making money is the main goal of the unions sadly.

FES I think this tour to Australia is a bit too soon for Eddie Jones' England to make a real dent but I hope to be proved wrong. A lot will depend on whose fit I expect obviously.

I agree it's an uphill battle for Ireland and Wales but both sides could surprise as expectations will be low.

I don't know. It'll be really interesting to see what Jones does with this tour. I don't think Farrell will be retained at 12 so I think we'll see Jones putting a bit more of his stamp on this. It's still very early days but Australia will find this encounter far trickier than the World Cup game I suspect.

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

International window starts 2nd weekend of June [with preceding time for training] and this is clear this year thankfully.  It'll be interesting to see what happens if any internationals are playing in the French finals.

Hammer, the schedule for the Barrage (play-offs) was mentioned in commentary during the Clermont v Toulouse game yesterday. France will depart for Argentina on first weekend of the play-offs. So the top 6 (currently ASM Clermont Auvergne, Racing 92, RC Toulonnais, Montpellier Herault, Union Bordeaux Begles and Stade Toulousain) could be without their French players - interesting !!!

Quarter-finals
Saturday11 June 2016
Sunday 12 June 2016

Semi-finals
Saturday 19 June 2016
Sunday 20 June 2016

Final
Friday 24 June 2016 at the Camp Nou in Barcelona, Spain

Shifty, are you sure we're playing Waikato in Wellington?

HammerofThunor wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points?  Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in.  Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

The December 2016 Ranking points matter when it comes to the draw for RWC 2019. England are currently ranked fourth and would be a top seed. Risking a good draw for the sake of a meaningless match is just stupid.

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points?  Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in.  Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

The December 2016 Ranking points matter when it comes to the draw for RWC 2019. England are currently ranked fourth and would be a top seed. Risking a good draw for the sake of a meaningless match is just stupid.

Wales went chasing the £££££ with extra games, lost them, lost ranking points and that meant we were in the 3rd set of seeds when the draw was made for RWC2015, which gave us the dreaded 'Group of Death'

Don't think the WRU care much for the Pro 12 and only the Scarlets are likely to make the playoffs barring something epic. Scarlets have Ball, Lee, Jones, Evans, Owens, Davies, S Williams and L Williams. Think the props are the biggest issue for Wales to replace at the moment. England have the depth for it not to matter. Money making exercise

Who picks the tours? Read something on the NZ thread article about World Rugby picks it? This year I am good with Scotland playing Japan as some players really need to have a summer recovery and Scotland need to properly blood some players (Toolis, Hughes, Fife, Brown, Hoyland, Heathcote, Watson, Bradbury, Sutherland, Allan, Malcolm). Next summer I want an Aussie or NZ tour. Hell a game against both and then a Pacific Islands team would be good.

Scotland to win both against Japan
Wales to win the club game, come close twice and get blown out once for 3-0 NZ.
Italy to split. Not sure which way to give it.
France to split
England to lose 2-1 with a close one going each way and Aussies winning one comfortably enough
Ireland to lose 3-0. Not blowouts but not looking like winning 2. Close in 1. The SA pack will ruin Ireland's until Ireland sort out their front 5.

Don't care about the England vs Wales game. Think it detracts from domestic rugby

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points?  Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in.  Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

The December 2016 Ranking points matter when it comes to the draw for RWC 2019. England are currently ranked fourth and would be a top seed. Risking a good draw for the sake of a meaningless match is just stupid.

I'm one of those that thinks if you want to win it you have to be able to beat everyone. Getting the easiest run possible to try and get as far as possible doesn't interest me. Especially since come 2019 Scotland and France could be a force and Australia and Ireland on the decline. Who knows?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Shifty, are you sure we're playing Waikato in Wellington?

It's in Hamilton...

LondonTiger wrote:The Pro12 final is also on the 28th May. Whether that affects Wales remains to be seen.

I don't think it will effect the Welsh teams, were cack this year.

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Still think the game vs Wales is pointless both for England and Wales, just an opportunity for both teams to lose players to injury to make a few million ££££'s before their respective tours to Australia and NZ begin.

There fixed that for you, Wales will be creaming £2 million for eighty minutes work, not too shabby, it is shameless what our unions are doing.

I assume we'll be having 4 AI games again too this year.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Still think the game vs Wales is pointless both for England and Wales, just an opportunity for both teams to lose players to injury to make a few million ££££'s before their respective tours to Australia and NZ begin.

There fixed that for you, Wales will be creaming £2 million for eighty minutes work, not too shabby, it is shameless what our unions are doing.

I assume we'll be having 4 AI games again too this year.

Hell Yeah !!!

Saturday, 5 November

Wales v Australia, Principality Stadium, 14.30 GMT

Saturday, 12 November

Wales v Argentina, Principality Stadium, 17.30 GMT

Saturday, 19 November

Wales v Japan, Principality Stadium, 14.30 GMT

Saturday, 26 November

Wales v South Africa, Principality Stadium, 17.30 GMT

PenfroPete wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Still think the game vs Wales is pointless both for England and Wales, just an opportunity for both teams to lose players to injury to make a few million ££££'s before their respective tours to Australia and NZ begin.

There fixed that for you, Wales will be creaming £2 million for eighty minutes work, not too shabby, it is shameless what our unions are doing.

I assume we'll be having 4 AI games again too this year.

Hell Yeah !!!

Saturday, 5 November

Wales v Australia, Principality Stadium, 14.30 GMT

Saturday, 12 November

Wales v Argentina, Principality Stadium, 17.30 GMT

Saturday, 19 November

Wales v Japan, Principality Stadium, 14.30 GMT

Saturday, 26 November

Wales v South Africa, Principality Stadium, 17.30 GMT

Great.
Which kerching is outside the window; 1st or 4th? The 4th as usual I spose.

Shifty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Shifty, are you sure we're playing Waikato in Wellington?

It's in Hamilton...

LondonTiger wrote:The Pro12 final is also on the 28th May. Whether that affects Wales remains to be seen.

I don't think it will effect the Welsh teams, were cack this year.

Wales are playing the Chiefs not Waikato, there is a huge difference as the Chiefs are represented by the provincial unions of Bay of Plenty, Counties Manukau, King Country, Thames Valley and Waikato. Just saying

PenfroPete wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

International window starts 2nd weekend of June [with preceding time for training] and this is clear this year thankfully.  It'll be interesting to see what happens if any internationals are playing in the French finals.

Hammer, the schedule for the Barrage (play-offs) was mentioned in commentary during the Clermont v Toulouse game yesterday. France will depart for Argentina on first weekend of the play-offs. So the top 6 (currently ASM Clermont Auvergne, Racing 92, RC Toulonnais, Montpellier Herault, Union Bordeaux Begles and Stade Toulousain) could be without their French players - interesting !!!

Quarter-finals
Saturday11 June 2016
Sunday 12 June 2016

Semi-finals
Saturday 19 June 2016
Sunday 20 June 2016

Final
Friday 24 June 2016 at the Camp Nou in Barcelona, Spain

PenfroPete, the current agreement between the LNR and the FFR is clear : Noves cannot select anyone from the semi finalists teams in his 30 men squad. Just hope Montpelier is amongst those!
The squad will be at best experimental and at worst a joke...the result though is that we will probably get spanked big time by Argentina if they take those games half seriously.
I'd rather no tour than that mascarade.

Shifty wrote:
29 May / Sunday / England V Wales - Twickenham

This is my birthday. Buy me tickets.

Charteris isn't touring because of the Top 14 initially and then because he is due to become a father again.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

I'm sure Whitelock and Retallick will be relieved!

I guess so. They would also be relieved to line up against the Gray brothers, seeing as the AB locks are allergic to wooden spoons, and we all know the Gray's have plenty of those .

mikey_dragon wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

I'm sure Whitelock and Retallick will be relieved!

I guess so. They would also be relieved to line up against the Gray brothers, seeing as the AB locks are allergic to wooden spoons, and we all know the Gray's have plenty of those .

That is brilliant.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Charteris will miss the Wales tour as the Top14 final is late June. Shame because we really would have needed him to be there and disrupt the NZ lineout.

I'm sure Whitelock and Retallick will be relieved!

I guess so. They would also be relieved to line up against the Gray brothers, seeing as the AB locks are allergic to wooden spoons, and we all know the Gray's have plenty of those .

That is brilliant.

But a bit of too as it'll no doubt be taken as a genuine compliment.

It doesn't even make sense. If Retallick and Whitelock were actually allergic to wooden spoons, they wouldn't be relieved to be near wooden spoons.

Anyone else think Wales will win one test?

HammerofThunor wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points?  Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in.  Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

Saints will be playing Leicester in the Premiership Final, which will give Owen Farrell and Mike Brown an opportunity to practice their leadership/captain skills.

They don't have the temperament to be captains. Mind you kudos to Hartley for channelling his aggression.

GunsGerms wrote:They don't have the temperament to be captains. Mind you kudos to Hartley for channelling his aggression.

Yeah, I know. I was being a little sarcastic. Those two guys have the leadership skills of an atom bomb.

Haha.

doctor_grey wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:There is generally an England v Barbarians game on the weekend of the final so that's simple been replaced by the Wales game (I hope). Personally prefer a proper international game rather than the Barbarians (even if it is kind of a development game).

An international might better than a Barbarians game but this will not be a proper international game. If Leicester are playing Sarries then England will be without seven of Saturday's starting fifteen. Why give such a game international status and potentially lose ranking points?

Because I don't give a toss about ranking points?  Seeing how we do without those 7 players would be a good thing in my view. Keep the other 8 as close to best as possible and see how new combination come in.  Jones has already said he needs to develop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice players if they want to be a force. This helps.

Saints will be playing Leicester in the Premiership Final, which will give Owen Farrell and Mike Brown an opportunity to practice their leadership/captain skills.

Farrell as England captain? Please no! Temporarily with Hartley off was bad enough.

Saints have a fight on their hands making the playoffs first.

Not the easiest final 5 games.

If I was predicting playoffs now I would say

Exeter
Saracens
Wasps
Tigers

GunsGerms wrote:Anyone else think Wales will win one test?

Not against New Zealand. I think Wales will have to crack open the lube.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Anyone else think Wales will win one test?

Not against New Zealand. I think Wales will have to crack open the lube.

Not sure what that means but sounds exciting. They are playing Waikato. Surely they will beat them, no?

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Anyone else think Wales will win one test?

Not against New Zealand. I think Wales will have to crack open the lube.

Not sure what that means but sounds exciting. They are playing Waikato. Surely they will beat them, no?

Not sure that qualifies as a Test but yes, I'd expect them to beat Waikato. They might beat England in the pre-tour match as well. It'll depend on the teams.

Well fingers crossed. A win v NZ would be epic.