How will the end of Djoko's streak affect his play?

First topic message reminder :

I just wondered what you folks think: will he pick up where he left off or will his confidence be dented?

You have my answer talatonian. He will be just fine. Hope Rafa can repeat at wimby and USO he pretty much has to to retain the #1 with Novak having 4 master's in the bag and a granny.

I think Socal and Tenez are the same person: Iasked Tenez the question and Socal replied - which means Tenez/Socal is obsessed with Fognini? If I'm wrong Socal/Tenez please say and I'll apologise.

They are not the same person Talatonian, so i suggest you drop the accusations please.

Of course -I do - it just seemd strange that's all

me Socal?

Clearly you are new here.

I am! Sorry

McEnroe went had a stellar season after his FO 1984 loss to lendl which broke his 42-match streak. Novak knows how to handle defeat, he will bounce back.

That is a first me being mistaken for Tenez!!!!! Tenez your thinking must be evolving to a higher plane now that people are starting to confuse you with me.

Laverfan, I hope so, I think he may have a little bit of slippage at wimby. But once he gets out on those hardcourts and late season indoors he will be firing on all cylinders I just hope he can remain healthy all season.

Oh, so it was Fognini's fault (!) that Djokovic lost his semi. Now I've heard it all.

Thought this might be a forum for reasoned, intelligent debate. Seems I was wrong.

Fognini impacted Novak's preparation and performance in the semi. He also created more pressure for Novak because if Fognini shows up in the quarter Djokovic ties the streak in the quarterfinals and doesn't have that added burden of the streak when he plays Roger. I am sorry Michael you are so intolerant of other people's opinions that is what debate is about, a give and take of ideas. Next time you tell me what you feel is an appropriate opinion for me to have, and I'll write it up word for word so you don't have to go through the biterness of reading an opinion you deem as unreasonable.

Looking back, MacEnroe probably suffered a more heart-breaking loss to end his streak (2 sets up in the RG final), but the rest of his year went pretty well, as he ended up with only something like 3 defeats all season.

I think Djoko knew the streak would end somewhere, and will probably be less concerned because it was ended by one of the real elite players playing very well. I also don't think he'll be too concerned that Fed then lost to Nadal in the final, because he knows the history and how Nadal's game is such a bad match-up for Federer on clay.

OK, Rafa's form has improved through the tournament, and his 'poor' season to date has been slightly over-stated, but come the next meeting on a hard court, I'd probably make Djoko the favourite based on form over the last 6 months.

On the Fognini debate. I was utterly disgusted with Fognini's attitude really, smiling while announcing his retirement from what should have been the biggest match of his career does not show him in the best light. People mention Murray playing on with a partial tear in a tendon, while Fognini pulled out a whole day before. Maybe he thought he had no chance, maybe he didn't fancy it, maybe he really was injured, but either way it was poor.

HOWEVER. To blame Fognini for the loss is just wrong IMO. Yes it probably affected Djokovic I only managed to catch the very end of the match so can't comment there). But as has been said, if you aspire to be a true great you have to find a way of winning when not at 100%, and ultimately Djokovic couldn't quite cope with the pressure (of equalling the streak and taking n°1), a resurgent Fed, and the long lay-off. Also, he had his chances in the fourth (serving for the set) but made a bit of a mess of it (couple of poor shots in the TB).

As for how it will affect him, I think it's inevitable that he will suffer a bit from it, the loss must have hurt, and added to that we're now in the grass court season which is his weakest surface. He's pulled out of Queens (probably sensible). I think semis at best at Wimbledon, and I then expect to see him pick himself up on the hardcourts.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:On the Fognini debate. I was utterly disgusted with Fognini's attitude really, smiling while announcing his retirement from what should have been the biggest match of his career does not show him in the best light. People mention Murray playing on with a partial tear in a tendon, while Fognini pulled out a whole day before. Maybe he thought he had no chance, maybe he didn't fancy it, maybe he really was injured, but either way it was poor.

HOWEVER. To blame Fognini for the loss is just wrong IMO. Yes it probably affected Djokovic I only managed to catch the very end of the match so can't comment there).

In defence of Fognini, Montanes should have put him away but was too distracted to play his game. Fog did everything within the rules (with the umpires discretion and rules interpretation), since the ITF chose not say anything on the matter. The extent of injury was unknown during the match.

Should Fog have been disallowed the MTO that he got, THAT is definitely debatable.

I think people might be underating Djokers Wimby chances since last year he did after all make it to the semis without a serve or backhand. I reckon he can make it to the final, but his real time will come at the US Hardcourt seasons. I expect him to take the USO and possibly Canada too.

I think if Novak gets past the first couple of rounds without a hiccup, then he will make the semis for sure and have a real chance at wimby. I think Fed, Rafa, Andy, and Nole all have a really good chance at wimbeldon this year. Novak has the game for grass, and as iamawesome pointed out last year he got to the semis with virtually no serve. he takes the ball early, returns well, and has improved his volleys so that will help him play on the grass.

I think it's fanciful that Nadal will somehow cling onto both Wimby & the US Open and retain his No.1 ranking, the only person who has ever go on to retain his 3 grand slams from the previous year is one Roger Federer in 2007, no one else as ever done it.

Djokovic is heading for No.1 and he doesn't have to even win Wimby or the US Open to do it, Nadal has to win both if he wants to keep his ranking safe, which is a much bigger ask and even then, only by the tips of his fingernails.

I'm sure Djokovic will still get to the quarters of Wimby, if not the semis, the question is will he go further? That's where it gets tricky & I'm not sure.

It's even possible that NAdal could possibly end the year at 3rd if he doesn't make a good show at Wimby and US. I'm pretty sure he'll get far at Wimbz, not sure about winning, but for some reason I cannot see him getting further than Semis at the US. :S

lucius, I think it is a danger coming off an emotional loss at the french open and not having any grass court preparation going into wimbeldon. All it takes is a big server who is on fire and it isn't like you can simulate a 140 mph serve in practice conditions on grass. Agree with your post completely. Since Novak has already won 4 masters he has a very strong chance of getting the #1 even without another grandslam title. Those 4 masters are the equivalent in terms of points of 2 grandslam titles.

I agree I Am Awesome, the reality is Nadal has no room for error and I agree he stands a good shot of getting far in Wimby, how far remains to be seen, but I can see him in the final, so he's half way there to winning, but winning it is quite different to being half way there (ask Federer from yesterday).

I agree, I got this feeling Nadal may not progress further than the semi @ the US Open, which would be damaging for his ranking. His aussie flop hardly inspires confidence. I think Novak will be the favourite for the US Open, along with Fed (depending on how his Wimby goes).

luciusmann wrote:I agree I Am Awesome, the reality is Nadal has no room for error and I agree he stands a good shot of getting far in Wimby, how far remains to be seen, but I can see him in the final, so he's half way there to winning, but winning it is quite different to being half way there (ask Federer from yesterday).

I agree, I got this feeling Nadal may not progress further than the semi @ the US Open, which would be damaging for his ranking. His aussie flop hardly inspires confidence. I think Novak will be the favourite for the US Open, along with Fed (depending on how his Wimby goes).

The good thing for him though in terms of points is that he hasn't got many points to defend outside of the two remaining slams. If goes on a roll and wins the next 4 masters lets say and wins Wimbledon and makes the semis of US there is a good chance of remaning number 1. Because Djokovic also needs to defend his finals points and semis from Wimbledon. But as it is I don't can't see Rafa winning a whole lot of HardCourt slams. I think for the US he was just absolutely inspired to get his Career Grand Slam and look at how that hurt his clay game this year. I just can't see him winning a whole lot of Aussies or US, maybe just one more.

Exactly, I Am Awesome, I think points wise, Nadal isn't likely to pick up any extra in the stretch from now to the ATP Finals. Although, I think it's a bit harsh to say he's had a bad clay court season, he lost Madrid & Rome (both must have hurt a lot) but he just does not seem able to beat Djokovic, on clay or hard court.

Despite Nadal's US Open victory last year, I think this is the most likely price of the physical game he plays and he'll end up losing it. Look at Nadal's record after Wimbledon, it's dreadful, just 3 titles in the ATP 1000 circuit/grand slams in his entire career. Federer's is 17, Djokovic's is 3. These facts speak volumes about Nadal's chances of retaining the US Open.

Sorry Socal - I just don't follow your earlier ranting comments.

Of the top players, Djoko had a reputation for medical TO's / defaulting that led to other top players making remarks about his fitness / attitude (Fed/Roddick to name but 2).

Djoko has now cut out the wig-wearing, impersonation entrances to games and is showing his huge talent and had a great winning streak.

All winning streaks come to an end in sport. And whatever you think "may" have happened, Federer was playing supremely well in the FO. If he hadn't missed a backhand volley by about 1cm he could well have won the first set in the final. He was mentally up on Nadal at that point.

Not saying the end result would have been different, but I don't think Djoko would have won the semi even if he had made a drubbing of a "no-one" a few days earlier.

His practise partners will be better than Fognini - so give it a rest.

I joined this forum as a welcome relief from the "WUM's" on BBC 606. However, this thread is making me think again.

Bye !

socal1976 wrote:My answer is simple it will set him back, I don't doubt he will be able to comeback and get the #1 at some point this season. He is too good and has been through a lot. But it is clear this isn't just an ordinary loss, and it will be apparent to me what transpired if Fognini shows up for the wimby warmup. If he is hurt, well then its just a tough break for Novak. But Espn reported the guy wasn't even limping in or out of the interview, and he withdrew a day before he actually had to play. In my mind if Fognini shows up and moves normally in a week or two it will be a big taint on this french open, on mac's record, on Roger's victory. It would be almost as bad as a match fixing scandal in my mind.

Socal - if you are alleging match fixing has occurred, perhaps you should send your evidence to the appropriate authorities so a criminal investigation can be opened about match fixing / illegal betting. Match fixing doesn't happen unless there is some kind of betting / payback involved.

It is common for muscle tears to heal within a week depending on the degree. They don't also need to "limp". Happens in football / rugby / tennis & other sports all the time. Many players withdraw as a precaution while looking at their upcoming schedules.

Exitedscotinwhales, maybe Fognini is injured maybe he isn't, I don't know I am not a doctor. Maybe he would have played if he felt like he had a chance to win. What I can say for sure is that Murray and Djoko played with injuries and many other players on tour are carrying knocks. And what I do know is that his withdrawal certainly affected Novak's performance and preparation for the semi. It certainly caused him to lose the record. I am not in anyway suggesting match fixing on any level by anybody. What I am suggesting is that if Fogi simply pulled out to give himseld two extra days rest when he could of played then his behavior is a taint.

Maybe they should consider a lucky loser situation whereby if a player pulls out before the match starts the guy who was beaten in the last round takes their place...one issue of course is payment of money...as both players (withdrawn player and lucky loser) would expect paying for the next round.

socal1976 wrote:Exitedscotinwhales, maybe Fognini is injured maybe he isn't, I don't know I am not a doctor. Maybe he would have played if he felt like he had a chance to win. What I can say for sure is that Murray and Djoko played with injuries and many other players on tour are carrying knocks. And what I do know is that his withdrawal certainly affected Novak's performance and preparation for the semi. It certainly caused him to lose the record. I am not in anyway suggesting match fixing on any level by anybody. What I am suggesting is that if Fogi simply pulled out to give himseld two extra days rest when he could of played then his behavior is a taint.

Another thing that gripes me slightly with this Djoko fognini thing it that out of everyone, Djokovic has been involved in many many retirements and injury treatments that appear to amount to very little, to the point other players find it a little bemusing at times. So its not really something i think can be shouted about. It was just bad luck for Djoko, just in the same way it was bad luck for Del P that their earlier match was delayed so much that there had to start afresh the following day. Its all part and parcel of a slam fortnight imo.

None of us like it when a player we are rooting for goes under, and I know from my own feelings that it makes me feel a whole heap better if I can attribute the loss to something else other than not reaching the bar - a stroke of misfortune let's say. However, at some time or another, all players get strokes of misfortune, difficult draws etc and part of the game is to cope with them.