Ryder Cup - European Picks

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Total Votes : 61

Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by sirbenson on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 4:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Rory McIlroy
Danny Willett
Henrik Stenson
Chris Wood
Sergio García
Rafael Cabrera-Bello
Justin Rose
Andy Sullivan
Matthew Fitzpatrick


The above nine have qualified automatically for this year's Ryder Cup, which 3 will join them on the 29th August when Darren Clarke will announce his wildcards?


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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 11:37 pm

Think you have to swap Rafa or Russell with Westy. Otherwise not a bad guess.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by Faldono1fan on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 11:54 pm

I don't think the Rory/Garcia combination worked at Gleneagles. Rafa finished 3rd in the matchplay this year granted, but does that constitute proving yourself when the majority of matches are pairs?
I think the Rose/Stenson combination is nailed on, but after that?
My guess is if the opening morning is foursomes:-

Rose/Stenson
Garcia/Westwood
Kaymer/Willet
Mcilroy/Wood

Fourballs

Rose/Stenson
Garcia/Rafa
Westwood/Willet
Mcilroy/Kaymer

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 12:41 am

Sully and Fitzy not getting much love for the first day.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 2:12 am

That's OK, it's about the winning, not the taking part.

And, before you go all Mark James on me, his mistake was to choose Coltart instead of Langer; otherwise he had it nailed. He got a raw deal.
(Had forgotten that James had SEVEN first-timers, Crenshaw just one, Duval. All the more reason he should've chosen Bernhard.)

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 2:57 pm

GolfWorld Tweet wrote:Betting suspended on Luke Donald getting a @RyderCupEurope wildcard after his odds came in to 1/100 today.

https://twitter.com/GolfWorld1/status/770249849220558848

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by McLaren on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 4:34 pm

Saw that gpb. Not surprising to see Clark go down the old boys route.
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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by super_realist on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 4:58 pm

Perhaps he felt he needed to include more experience Mac, he's already got a lot of "rookies" (hate that expression) so perhaps he felt it would be good for the team mix, let's remember that's why they have a captain to make those tough choices. There's no suggestion there's nepotism (if it's true that Donald is in), which is what you appear to infer.

It's Clarke's (and his team's choice) but at least it's better than what America do and take pleading texts from the likes of Rev Simpson, or pick players on name but with atrocious records.

Not sure why you care anyway, seeing as you hate the event.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by Faldono1fan on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

I am a Luke fan, but I think this would be more of a gamble than going with a Thomas Pieters. His confidence is still in the rebuilding stages, whilst Pieters has oodles of it. I am sure if the qualification period was any longer Pieters would be in. Look at the mistake the US made with Horschel last time. Experience is OK, but the RC is not the place you want to go if you are trying to get back to where you were and confidence maybe still a bit fragile.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by super_realist on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 5:55 pm

Let's see what happens. Although it may be widely thought that it will be Kaymer, Westwood and now Donald, who knows?
Could be Pieters in for either of Westwood or Kaymer.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 6:19 pm

Agree 100% Faldo,
Lukey had a chance this past weekend and didn't take it - Hazeltine's not as difficult a course as Bethpage, but driving distance will be at a premium; Luke's had just two good results in the last year, so wouldn't bank on lightning striking again next month.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by super_realist on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 6:31 pm

This is precisely why I would like to see more picks. a 50/50 split would be interesting.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 7:33 pm

I said last week it would be Kaymer, Westwood and Knox.... but now Pieters has to be in the mix. I'd dump Westwood for Pieters.... but I don't see DC doing that. So either Knox or Pieters is the odd man out.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 7:49 pm

I want to see Donald picked before I beleive it.
Thought Westy was in after the last VC was named.
And I can't see Kaymer being overlooked.
I also think it would be a middle finger to the ET if Pieters or Kjeldsen wasn't picked, something I doubt DC/Bjorn & possy would do.
Like Knox, Donald seems too detached from the ET to justify a pick.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by super_realist on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 8:02 pm

Not a bad point there Pedro, Keeping the ET end up could be seen as important.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:01 am

Agreed.
Evening chat here is that Darren's ducked Donald and picked Pieters. We'll know soon enough!

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by 4putt on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:13 am

Keymer, Knox, Pieters.

I'm a Westwood fan. Followed him all his career but I honestly think others are in better form. If he's picked it will be a sentimental 'mates pick'.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by super_realist on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 7:30 am

Exactly how good is Kaymer's form right now? I recall him doing ok, but don't recall him doing anything extraordinary. People seems to think he's a certainty, but I'm not so sure.
As for Westwood, aside from his Masters 2nd place, he's not done much except slump whilst in contention at the US Open (again).

Be nice to see a surprise of 2 of Kjeldsen, Pieters and Knox with one of Westwood/Kaymer/Donald.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by beninho on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 9:16 am


Made In Denmark 28/08/2016 T6
Olympic Men's Golf Competition T15 -
US PGA Championship 31/07/2016 T7
145th OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP 17/07/2016 T36
Aberdeen Asset Management Scottish Open T13
100th Open de France 03/07/2016 T5

According to the Euro Tour Site, Kaymers form is not bad, from those results.

Lee Westwoods :

D+D REAL Czech Masters 21/08/2016 T27
US PGA Championship 31/07/2016 85
145th OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP 17/07/2016 T22
100th Open de France 03/07/2016 T11
U.S. Open 19/06/2016 T32
Nordea Masters 05/06/2016 T8

I would say that the experience of westwood is a good thing, and I dont think there is much between all of the options.

I initially said Knox, but if its Pieters or Donald, id say Pieters.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:00 am

The thing is there are no obvious obvious. Westy and Kaymer should be in due to their experience, the team dynamics and because they are in decent form. Not because they are red hot. If you went by form alone then Pieters, Kjeldsen and Knox would present a better case.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by beninho on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:05 am

Kjeldsens form is not much better than Westwood or Kaymer though. Pieters is in form, you would say, but will he still be in form in 4(?) weeks time?


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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:12 am

Agree it's a gamble with 'in form' players and maybe Kjeldsen is only lukewarm now. That's why DC will only pick one from Pieters/Kjeldsen/Knox, with Pieters being hottest, Kjeldsen being likeable and experienced and Knox bringing some US insight (if that has any value).

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by sirbenson on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:06 am

Thankfully it seems common sense has prevailed with Pieters being picked!

I must admit I don't get the huge support for Kjeldsen! Like I know SR is a fan but other people on here seem to think he has an outside chance!

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by I'm never wrong on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:34 pm

Westwood Kaymer and Pieters it is

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:37 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Westwood Kaymer and Pieters it is
Not Kaymer, but Keeeeeeeemer

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by hend085 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:53 pm

poor old Russell. how many of the team have won in the USA in the last year, never mind twice?

DC comments suggested Russel Luke and GMac were the unlucky ones. no mention of Kjelsen or Lowry

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:01 pm

Basically he said it was between Pieters and Knox. Surprised he also mentioned GMac though, but maybe it’s an NI thing.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:13 pm

Picks are in... I can't really argue with Clarke's reasoning down the line. Don't know if it was right or not...

But still... I'm seeing RC odds as the American's as the favorites at 15/8. All things being equal that should be about right. But it's NOT equal and IMO its more like 50/50. IMO the USA's biggest problem is over analyzing everything... and then when it comes to "nut cuttin" time in the important junctures of matches, the American's succumb to the pressure more often than the Euro's. I see no reason why all this "RC by committee" would do anything to reverse that. In fact I believe there's a stronger chance it puts even more pressure on each of the Americans.

I'll be rooting rah-rah USA all the way... but if I were a betting man... I'd gladly take the Euro's at 15/8. I wouldn't bet on the Americans and anything worse than even money.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:16 pm

A tie probably gives good odds and is not that unlikely.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:20 pm

Considering the Russell Knox snub and Jon Rahm earning a 2016-17 PGATour card, will Rahm ever become a Euro-Tour member?

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:34 pm

GPB wrote:Considering the Russell Knox snub and Jon Rahm earning a 2016-17 PGATour card, will Rahm ever become a Euro-Tour member?
I wouldn't blame him if he didn't. But I'm pretty high on Rahm and believe that at some point he's gonna be one of the very top-end world class players out of Europe.... and it'll be impossible for him to resist... which I very much doubt he'd want to.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:34 pm

Motivating ET players is more important than kissing up to Europeans on the PGA Tour. You’d pee off players on the ET if you didn’t favor them over PGA T players or double dippers. Knox taking up ET membership retroactively seems a bit contrived and not wholeheartedly, a bit like the Italians switching side in WWII. I’d say he would have had to outperform Pieters significantly to warrant a pick. After all Darren Clarke is appointed by the ET.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:40 pm

Russell Knox has played well and undoubtedly would strengthen the Team, if he had done enough to qualify automatically.
But he didn't.
No-one's a bigger Knox fan than me, but if he had joined the ET earlier he'd've qualified, no argument necessary. As it was, he paid a heavy price for his belated opportunism - if he's as good as I think he is, he'll become a stalwart of European Teams for the next decade.
His situation and that of Rahm are chalk and cheese.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:43 pm

FWIW, I don't think it was the Pieters pick that snubbed Knox. I think it was the nepotism Westwood pick that snubbed Knox.

Knox earned more OWGR points in the last 52 weeks than all Euros except Rory, Stenson and Willett.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:45 pm

That's like saying Na, Kisner and Thomas (no, I haven't done the arithmetic) should be on the American Team because of the money won in the 15/16 season - but they knew the rules, as did Russell.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:50 pm

Speaking of Euro Tour membership... can one of you ET experts tell me what is the path to ET membership for a guy like Rahm (or any other full time "other tour" player regardless of nationality)? Reed and Knox I get because they won co-sanctioned WGC's...

But short of winning one of the co-sanctions... how would Rahm become an ET member? It's not starts I'm talking about as I'm sure Rahm could get SE's to play most anything he wanted, but how does he actually become a Ryder Cup eligible member?

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 1:56 pm

GPB wrote:Knox earned more OWGR points in the last 52 weeks than all Euros except Rory, Stenson and Willett.
There's more to it than points earned. It's about what you bring to the table. Clarke knows what Westwood stands for and his influence in the team room. I think history has proven this a much more important asset than your position on the OWGR. Just ask the US Task Force.

With that being said, had Knox qualified automatically he would have bumped Fitz. And I don't think Fitz would have been picked over Westwood, Pieters or Keeemer.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:00 pm

What Knox did do is earn more points (141 pts) in 9 months than Kaymer (121 pts) and Westwood (118 pts) earned in 12 months.

And if you add in those extra three months for Knox, that is about 90 extra points.

Yes, Membership has its privileges and its obligations, but IIRC Ryder Cup Points (& Presidents Cup) points for US Players are Grandfathered upon membership.


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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:01 pm

Which of the three picks would be sitting on the sidelines if Poulter was ~15th in the standings?

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:05 pm

I actually don't have an issue with Knox not getting the pick....  

1) I get that there's politics and choosing RC teams is not always about choosing the players who are playing the best. And if Clarke feels Westwood specifically somehow provides some kind of "warm fuzzies" that will make others on the Euro team play better, than more power to him... because certainly it can't be an expectation LW's gonna go get his team a bunch of points on the golf course ill suited to a not so much in form LW.

2) Pieters was a good pick and strengthen's the Euro Team on the course... good for the Euro's and bad for the USA prospects.  IMO Knox would have strengthened the Euro team similarly, moreso than Kaymer, but especially more than Westwood. So being a rah-rah USA guy... I see every match Westwood is in there playing instead of Knox as one where USA's chances are made just that much better...


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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:07 pm

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:08 pm

Agree Robo, as someone who wants to see USA win this year, I am glad to see Westwood on the Euro Team.

If the matches were played in Kuala Lampur, I might think differently.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:08 pm

GPB wrote:What Knox did do is earn more points (141 pts) in 9 months than Kaymer (121 pts) and Westwood (118 pts) earned in 12 months.

And if you add in those extra three months for Knox, that is about 90 extra points.

Yes, Membership has its privileges and its obligations, but IIRC Ryder Cup Points (& Presidents Cup) points for US Players are Grandfathered upon membership.

But the ET is in another situation than the PGAT. Being the little brother under threat from an increasingly bigger brother you’d have to put in certain protective measures.

BTW GPB, did you check what the US Team would look like if they went for OWGR points rather than money won? I recall you did some calculations with the majors, but not with OWGR points.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by McLaren on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:10 pm

Westwood and Clarke appear to be great Friends, the nepotism can't come as a shock.

Don't understand what Knox's ET joining date has to do with anything, he earned more points over the same periods as Westwood and Kaymer so whats the issue?

If some of you really want it to be the ET vs the PGAT would you be happy to see double dippers removed from selection eligibility?
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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by McLaren on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:13 pm

Sorry the original post about rookies was put on the wrong board.

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
That's a particularly dumbarse thing to say about Donaldson, even for you.

Spieth won 2 1/2 points, Donaldson was playing well going into the RC and earned 3 points, including that decisive win against Keegan Bradley.

"there for the ride"? Only in your warped sense of logic.

Kwini just getting my sledging in early. Thought you would like some early RC banter.
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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by pedro on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:19 pm

McLaren wrote:Westwood and Clarke appear to be great Friends, the nepotism can't come as a shock.  

Don't understand what Knox's ET joining date has to do with anything, he earned more points over the same periods as Westwood and Kaymer so whats the issue?

If some of you really want it to be the ET vs the PGAT would you be happy to see double dippers removed from selection eligibility?
There's more to it than points earned. If he had qualified automatically, fine. But since he's a bit detached to the whole ET and most of the guys he'd need to bring a little extra to the table compared to Pieters to justify a pick.

Double dippers are welcome, but the captain should be careful not to undermine the ET when selecting the picks.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by McLaren on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:25 pm

I wonder if Westwood will do a Poulter and have a stinker after being picked on nostalgia and being one of the lads?
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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:27 pm

Here is the USA's 20 top OWGR Point Earners (Gross) since the beginning of the year.

1 Dustin Johnson 346.48
2 Jordan Spieth 256.48
3 Patrick Reed 226.45
4 Phil Mickelson 189.09
5 Rickie Fowler 177.05
6 Brandt Snedeker 170.8
7 Jimmy Walker 170.64
8 Matt Kuchar 162.5
9 Bubba Watson 160.05
10 Brooks Koepka 142.17
11 Kevin Chappell 129.72
12 J.B. Holmes 128.96
13 William McGirt 126.97
14 Scott Piercy 117.91
15 Bill Haas 109.62
16 Jason Dufner 106.49
17 Ryan Moore 99.91
18 Justin Thomas 99.37
19 Charley Hoffman 95.46
20 Daniel Berger 94.37


I don't see much difference in the 12 probable players for the US team. The Top 8 would have Rickie and Kuchar (replacing Koepka & Zach).

Rickie and Kuchar are probably going to be picked and Koepka would probably be picked in this hypothetical standings.

And Zach is a player that I rather not see on the US team. The only reason why he is in the mix is from his win at St Andrews 13.5 months ago.

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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by hend085 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:33 pm

i wonder if Knox is on standby for Stenson.
id say DC would love a Chris Wood Injury!


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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by GPB on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:35 pm

I got to snicker a little at the "detached from the EuroTour"

While it is pretty apparent that the only reason why Knox joined the EuroTour is the Ryder Cup, IMO it is a pretty reasonable argument that the only reason why Rory, Justin, Henrik, Poulter, GMAC are still members of the ET is because of the Ryder Cup.

Rory McIlroy: Travel-weary player considered quitting European Tour

http://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/34453589

IIRC, Paul Casey said that a couple of Euros were envious that he could quit the Euro Tour.






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Re: Ryder Cup - European Picks

Post by robopz on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:38 pm

As long as the reality remains where the ETs best talent gets siphoned off to at minimum dual tour on the PGAT... it doesn't really accomplish much to use the Ryder Cup to penalize any of those players who are doing so. Especially if it's being done with some and not others.

Until, or maybe better said UNLESS Pelley is successful in raising purses significantly enough to make the ET a more legit stay at home option financially... it is what it is.

If I were Knox right now... I'd seriously consider dropping ET membership for next year... and then take it back up for 2018.

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